DIY black screen tests - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #421 of 1387 Old 08-26-2014, 11:40 AM
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Im satisfied with my black & reflective layers but what could be improved on is the diffuser. Any one who is trying to create a diy black screen knows the diffuser is the most important layer & finding the perfect one is definitely the toughest part. Im sure there is a better one out there for this application then the one I have so im keeping my eyes open & taking any suggestions for anything better then what I currently have. I went with the dusted static cling for ease of use & the size. Im looking into one from avery that is thicker & wont need to be applied to a substrate. What are the types of diffusers anyone else has tried?
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post #422 of 1387 Old 08-26-2014, 05:57 PM
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Stephen, have you considered using Orca Grow film for your reflective layer? I think it would give an added punch to the light/intensity of the image... Also, how are your viewing angles - Any pics?
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post #423 of 1387 Old 08-26-2014, 08:18 PM
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Is the orca grow retroflective like the oracal 5600? I went with the diamond mylar to help diffuse light better but the orca may work better. Truth is ive exhausted a lot of my resouces in r&d for many materials that arent usable for the final product. It would be awesome if we created a system of test screens with each person using different materials so we could work towards the best screen by combining all our ideas. Im sure there are better layers then what I used.. but thats what I could afford & had access too. I know there have been a lot of test samples from previous post but you really cant judge how well something works until you just quit sampling & gamble on a full screen. Light diffuses differently on a larger surface so you dont know how your layers will react until u pull the trigger on a big picture. U cant see hot spotting on small samples & u cant see the uniformity of a picture unless its on a full screen. So the more full screens the better. I know its an investment but samples will only tell you so much. My family is starting to think im crazy because I pretty much obsessed with trying to make this concept work from a diy perspective. So if there is anybody else out there that is dying to have this kind of screen at an affordable price jump in head first with me cause ive done all I can for now. My family is about to seize my assets if I spend another dime on material lol.

Last edited by stephen77; 08-26-2014 at 10:26 PM.
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post #424 of 1387 Old 08-27-2014, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Is the orca grow retroflective like the oracal 5600? I went with the diamond mylar to help diffuse light better but the orca may work better. Truth is ive exhausted a lot of my resouces in r&d for many materials that arent usable for the final product. It would be awesome if we created a system of test screens with each person using different materials so we could work towards the best screen by combining all our ideas. Im sure there are better layers then what I used.. but thats what I could afford & had access too. I know there have been a lot of test samples from previous post but you really cant judge how well something works until you just quit sampling & gamble on a full screen. Light diffuses differently on a larger surface so you dont know how your layers will react until u pull the trigger on a big picture. U cant see hot spotting on small samples & u cant see the uniformity of a picture unless its on a full screen. So the more full screens the better. I know its an investment but samples will only tell you so much. My family is starting to think im crazy because I pretty much obsessed with trying to make this concept work from a diy perspective. So if there is anybody else out there that is dying to have this kind of screen at an affordable price jump in head first with me cause ive done all I can for now. My family is about to seize my assets if I spend another dime on material lol.
Stephen, would 95% - 5% be ok or it must be 94-6?
I can't find it in europe and shipping from us is 100$..
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post #425 of 1387 Old 08-27-2014, 08:06 AM
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Ya that should be fine
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post #426 of 1387 Old 08-27-2014, 07:18 PM
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stephen77, how about this for a diffuser?
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post #427 of 1387 Old 08-27-2014, 11:09 PM
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I actually looked into that...I believe I saw it on Amazon. It would probably create a dark gray screen from the mix of the white diffuser & the black but it would still probably look good. I remember it being really cheap is what caught my eye. Im not sure how well it would work & with things like that it almost makes more sense to order enough for a full screen because with shipping charges paying for just a sample size is kind of pointless.
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post #428 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 07:40 AM
 
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guys i think while you may find the materials, we have tried and tested loads on avforums in the uk, the major problems is bonding all the layers together, as you can see from stephens photos bubbles etc are a nightmare.

Its almost impossible to get the layers to bond smoothly without bubbles for the screen size we are talking, that you will never be actually happy with the finish, thats why imo i'd go with Acrylic Mirror Sheet and SilverFire Paint to get the best results.
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post #429 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 08:30 AM
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The reason it looks the way it does right now is because I have pulled that diffuser up & re applied it to so many different kinds of substrates its not funny. The last time I put it on it actually rained as I put on creating very humid conditions. I can assure u that if properly done such as cleaning the acrylic & wet applying the material...it will lay without air pockets. I have taken that layer & have applied it more times then I can count. Its gottn dirty & over used. I can gaurantee if done right the first time there wont be a blemish.
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post #430 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 07:57 PM
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The best sample I have had has been a cheap avery diffuser I got from walmart. Its perfect. Its thick to the point u wouldnt need a substrate & it diffuses light better then anything else ive tried. The problem is finding it in the size we need. I found an avery diffuser & am really hoping this is it. Does anyone know or worked with this? http://www.gamart.com.au/Products/It...?FromTabId=610
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post #431 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 08:24 PM
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I think that's the same film that is available at Feller's. It's only 48" wide, though.
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post #432 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mediahomesireland View Post
guys i think while you may find the materials, we have tried and tested loads on avforums in the uk, the major problems is bonding all the layers together, as you can see from stephens photos bubbles etc are a nightmare.

Its almost impossible to get the layers to bond smoothly without bubbles for the screen size we are talking, that you will never be actually happy with the finish, thats why imo i'd go with Acrylic Mirror Sheet and SilverFire Paint to get the best results.
Isn't that the problem that caused New Design (who started this thread) to give up trying to perfect this as a DIY project and turn it into a commercial project? Didn't he end up not being able to find a simple way to properly bond all the layers together without bubbles? Didn't he have to turn to expensive professional production equipment to properly bond all the layers together, which took it out of the realm of DIY? Finding all the right materials for each layer is only part of the challenge.
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post #433 of 1387 Old 08-28-2014, 11:05 PM
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Im not bonding multiple layers together. The only thing close to bonding layers that I am doing is simply wet applying a static cling diffuser to a piece of acrylic & That is exactly what it was made to do. As I stated previously mine looks crappy because of the poor conditions I applied it in & the amount of times I have done that. This weekend I will put up more pictures showing a job done right can create a flawless top layer with ease. After the diffuser is applied to the acrylic all you have to do is clip it to the foam reflective/black layer & your done. Because the spandex isnt a film the acrylic just lays over top of it without any bubbles or artifacts. The toughest part is keeping the acrylic flat because it comes rolled up for shipping. So u may have to clip it down to the foam board & lay it flat in the sun all day so it will coform to the foam board. I knew I should have waited to post pics once I had it perfect. Believe me I have wanted to walk away from this project many times because it has been a lot more challenging then expected but I dont think I could go back to the standard picture I previously had. The pop & the contrast the black screen creates is next to none. Everything becomes better.Its almost undescribable because the colors are more vibrant but still warm & rich. The details that would be gray & washed out are completely visable. Its almost like someone flipped a switch to the rest of the image that seemed to be missing on a standard white screen. I may not have the day time part fully there but when all the lights are out for movie night the picture is the best ive ever seen & my projector is far from top of the line. Its an epson 2030. Dont take this as me bragging about my screen because I know it needs work. Take this as me bragging about how awesome the picture can look on a black style screen. All im saying is that I believe that its worth it to continue to create a diy black screen. We are getting really close which makes it even harder to throw in the towel. I do believe another diffuser could work better but I have probably spent 300$ in diffusers alone so im going to have to hold off for a while so if anyone finds something else that works well please post your results. I also think diffusing the reflecive layer would help too. I just figure the more the diffusion the better the uniformity & viewing angles of the picture.
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Last edited by stephen77; 08-28-2014 at 11:26 PM.
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post #434 of 1387 Old 08-29-2014, 09:34 AM
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stephen77, believe me, I do not want to discourage you. It sounds as if you may be very close to a possible solution. "Bonding" is not always intended to be permanent. There's also temporary bonding (or adhering) the layers together, which is within the realm of DIY without permanent bonding equipment. If you can find a way to keep all the layers together without bubbles or other artifacts, you will be a DIY hero to many people who want a good black screen but are not prepared to pay what the commercial market is currently demanding. This is one of the most exciting projects I've seen in the DIY screen section, and I keep coming back to this thread to check on the progress you and others are making. Hang in there!
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post #435 of 1387 Old 08-31-2014, 01:15 AM
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What does anyone know about the rosco diffusers? Such as performane and is it just a diffusion sheet without adhesion so it could lay on top of the spandex so no bonding is necessary?
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post #436 of 1387 Old 09-04-2014, 04:43 AM
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@stephen77 : how does your screen fare in terms of viewing angle?
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post #437 of 1387 Old 09-05-2014, 10:48 PM
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Nothing

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post #438 of 1387 Old 09-08-2014, 06:11 PM
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Guys, I bought orca grow film for test (but 1.37x10m :/). Here is what it looks like:
What do you think? Is surface supposed to be black?
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post #439 of 1387 Old 09-09-2014, 04:12 AM
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Guys, I bought orca grow film for test (but 1.37x10m :/). Here is what it looks like:
What do you think? Is surface supposed to be black?

It's black from inner side, you need white side
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post #440 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 07:59 AM
 
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Some interesting work with paint. He had a black version previously but you had to have a 2500 lumen + projector & the paint had to be applied to a black surface. This version as stated is on a 300 lumen projector & the picture is surprisingly bright. His elite paints usually run around the 300$ mark along with everything you need to do the job. The price seems high for paint but for an effective black screen its not too bad. He also claims that there is no prepping or primering needed. So basically you just pop the can & start painting. If anyone else out there has tested digital 1s work please give a short review if you dont mind.

Ps: I am thinking about painting the black spandex with this to work as the diffuser instead of having to use the acrylic & the frost diffuser. That way the black layer works as the diffuser layer too. The acrylic can create hotspotting & I think this could eleminate that. It will also make building the screen a lot easier since the top layers is definitely the toughest part of the project. I know you all are probably thinking why dont you just use the paint as a stand alone product & call it done? Well as that may work during the night im not sure that just the paint will hold up to extreme light conditions so I am still going to have the reflective layer just in case it doesnt. I am going to do something a little different though. Dont know if anyone has tried or even cares about my black screen method but if you have then you have noticed that when the black spandex is stretched over the mylar without diffusion it creates a sparkle/shimmer throughout the screen. So to eleminate that im going to diffuse the mylar then stretch the already painted black spandex over the diffused mylar frame. Hopefully this may create an easier diy black screen. Not sure how well this will work so any suggestions or criticism is wanted.
This does look very impressive, like to hear more when its released.
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post #441 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 07:13 PM
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Stephen, I still didn't find that black ity. Do you have any other similar suggestions to combine with orca grow?
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post #442 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 07:16 PM
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Just put in on ebay. Black ity spandex
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post #443 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 07:36 PM
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post #444 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 07:43 PM
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Try spandexworld.com
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post #445 of 1387 Old 09-11-2014, 09:18 PM
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I already ordered the one from link. Should I cancel delivery?
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post #446 of 1387 Old 09-19-2014, 01:43 PM
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stephen77 My search over the control of the ambient soft light led me to so here are the results ... On the PVC sheet applied to a mixture of acrylic enamels brand VGT three colors of R + G + B and the addition of VGT bright white pearl ... While the result is encouraging and looks good ..but want to do a mixture of very dark in appearance but we'll see ..
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post #447 of 1387 Old 09-24-2014, 05:51 AM
 
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stephen77 My search over the control of the ambient soft light led me to so here are the results ... On the PVC sheet applied to a mixture of acrylic enamels brand VGT three colors of R + G + B and the addition of VGT bright white pearl ... While the result is encouraging and looks good ..but want to do a mixture of very dark in appearance but we'll see ..
Looks decent and wide viewing angle also, can you put links to the products used?
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post #448 of 1387 Old 09-24-2014, 09:13 AM
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Mixing chamelion acril paint (R+G+B)-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f01al-ZRIBk#t=98
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post #449 of 1387 Old 09-24-2014, 01:47 PM
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My variant black screen-http://www.tehnari.ru/f190/t93514/index138.html
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post #450 of 1387 Old 09-24-2014, 02:03 PM
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Here is a photo mix up ... shot at an angle of 45-55 * ... Since frontal clear picture with high yarkostyu..Posle mattiruyuschego layer it will look like the picture at any angle (seen) ...
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