DIY black screen tests - Page 18 - AVS Forum
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post #511 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 05:51 AM
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Reflective paint

I have seen this paint which is very interesting.... Glowtec clear reflective paint. Mixed with paint thinner and sprayed onto black window tint.
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post #512 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrenJames View Post
I have seen this paint which is very interesting.... Glowtec clear reflective paint. Mixed with paint thinner and sprayed onto black window tint.
Wouldn't solve any of the teething problems we are having unfortunately.

What that basically is is a very very reflective paint. What you would most likely end up with are sparkles. and it doesn't help with the light diffusion problem as it will reflect light right back towards the light source. Viewing cone will be crippled.

Here is the problem. A 1.0 gain white screen evenly reflects light in all directions. Thus even if you are at a 90 deg angle from the screen you still see the image clearly. If you darken the screen to improve its ambient light performance (which in truth only works assuming the light from the projector hitting the darker screen will always be brighter than the ambient light hitting it) you are also reducing reducing the amount of light the screen can reflect. So while you may notice less light is being bounced off the screen to the walls, that also inherently means that off axis performance has also dropped.

So far the alternative is to make the darker screen have reflective properties. If using something like this reflective paint or the retro-reflector you achieve on axis reflectivity and an all round much brighter image looking head on even on a very very dark surface. But the problem with the paint is that it introduces sparkles to the image. Very very distracting. The retro-reflector vinyl will not introduce sparkles. Both o them however will not do anything for off xis viewing. Optimal Visual cone will still be well below 30 deg.

That is why what we need is a diffuser.
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post #513 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 10:02 AM
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It seems as if our issues is of course finding the right diffuser which eleminates hotspotting but isnt to white turning the screen grey. What if we found a diffuser that was already grey so when laid over the black it formed a dark charcoal like tone. I know its hard enough as it is to find a good diffuser in general but even harder to find a gray one at that. I know they're're out there cause ive seen them but I dont know how well they would work for this. Also I was going to get opinions on double diffusion which may give us the ability to use a more transparent diffuser while still getting a picture with perfect diffused properties. When I made my spandex black screen I thought about diffusing the mylar then cover it with the black spandex & then diffuse the black layer again with a more transparent diffuser. How do u all think this would work or would it scew the sharpness of the picture too much?

Last edited by stephen77; 10-22-2014 at 10:20 AM.
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post #514 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 12:50 PM
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Yes. That is the problem we are having. For this to work and for us to end up with a very good black screen, we just simply need a better diffuser.

Its a tricky ting when pairing white/grey to black. If we ad a white diffuser that is only 60-80% translucent, we end up with a grey screen. I may be mistaken but doesn't using a grey diffuser simply mean that it now has to be even more translucent? Or else we just end up with one of the grey shades we got with a white diffuser.

I am leaning towards a completely different approach. And if it doesn't work well at least I end up with a very very very dark grey screen.

Reflective Layer
ORCA grow film which is a diffuse film and spread light evenly which will improve viewing cone and is 94% reflective. Its also cheap and will make a 100" screen easy.

Diffuse Layer
FolkArt Black sequin Acrylic metalic paint 118ml $4 (A)+ Rustoleum Soft touch polyurethane Matte $24 (B) + Distilled water (C)
100ml (A) + 400ml (B) + 300-600ml (C)

Process
- Attach the ORCA grow film to a backing board for rigidity.
- thin the mixed paints with water until its thin enough to spray paint
- Apply 2-4 duster coats of the mix on the glass using a spray gun.

My hope is that the amount of light that passes through the paint and in turn bounces off the Reflective film. I want an even black coat that is as thin as possible so a lot of light passes through it which in turn gets reflected by the reflective layer and thus providing added brightness for the otherwise black screen. I also hope that since Orca grow is a diffuse film, it will improve the visual cone.

Last edited by Lorddeff07; 10-22-2014 at 04:33 PM.
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post #515 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 02:57 PM
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Paint is great. It's relatively inexpensive, it's already been proven to work and fine-tuning is ongoing to make it better and better. The many threads in this forum on the subject of painted screens attest to that. But there's also magic in the concept of being able to take two or three readily available sheets of material, sandwich them together and create a similarly good screen as the best painted option. The discussion on that subject in this thread continues to be fascinating.
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post #516 of 523 Old 10-22-2014, 03:30 PM
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I am basically trying to go for a best of both worlds approach
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post #517 of 523 Old 10-25-2014, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorddeff07 View Post
I am basically trying to go for a best of both worlds approach
I think i have the solution to all our problems. All below:-

1: a highly reflctive base
2: screen tint film (maybe 40%)
3: spandex (tightly stretched in grey/ silver)

You could even spray the back of the window film with reflective paint, which will give the bounce along with the film.

The spandex is the defuser, but tight is the key.

Now i`m ready to try it out.

I feel that if we paint the back of the film directly onto it, that will make it work better.
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post #518 of 523 Old 10-26-2014, 01:22 AM
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New mix rgb perl paint...
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post #519 of 523 Old 10-28-2014, 02:35 PM
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Well the rosco diffusion kit came today & it appears that out of 15 samples only one will work. The others are either too opaque or too translucent. The more opaque diffusers dont allow any of the black to come through which results in a light gray defeating the purpose of a black screen. The more translucent diffusers do allow for a black screen effect but i believe they will hot spot severely. I test this by running my flashlight over the samples & if it has a sheen or severe hot spotting then I know it wont pass the test. The one that does seem to have a lot of promise is the Rosco 3001 Light Tough Rolux. Its still a little more opaque then what I was hoping but it doesnt hot spot & still allows the black to come through creating a dark stone type of color. The second picture is the 3001 over the 3M 3200 & the third picture is with the flash on. You can see in the third picture that the flash barely creates a hot spotin the left corner & it was took about 10 inches directly over the sample.Tonight after I get home from work I will post my results from in front of my projector.
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post #520 of 523 Old 10-28-2014, 02:43 PM
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Two more pictures. 1st one with the diffuser over 3/4 of the 3M with the flash on & the second one is the same thing without the flash.
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post #521 of 523 Old Yesterday, 12:50 AM
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Here are some night time pictures of the rosco 3001. I can already tell you that this is going to be my best & final black screen purchase. This diffuser doesn't have a peel away back so it doesn't have to be wet applied or adhered to the black layer. Simply tacking it down will work perfectly since im going to be tacking it on to my foam board which is covered in mylar with black spandex stretched over that. That is also what the diffuser is tacked onto in the pictures. So it looks as if for now my black screen will consist of: 1 48×88 foam insulation board that is covered in diamond patterned mylar. On top of the mylar is black stretched spandex which I will soon tack 48×88 rosco 3001 tough rolux diffuser over that which should complete my screen. I know a lot of you all are saying to go with the orca grow or some type of retroflective material but since I currently already have the black spandex/mylar screen made then I think I will just have to stick with that for now. Also in comparison the 3M didnt really make a noticeable difference in brightness then the mylar. I will just need to add the diffuser to my existing project & call it done. This diffuser doesnt hot spot at all & the viewing angles are awesome too. I also think the spandex helps diffuse as well helping the viewing angles. A lot of the pictures have the sylvester black matinee screen material on the left for comparison & my sample is on the right. I know the night view isnt really what everyone wants to see so I will definitely post more pictures 2maro during the daylight hours.
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post #522 of 523 Old Yesterday, 08:32 AM
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3001 looks pretty much the same as already mentioned Rosco #450 Three Eighths White that was used in cylab's tests. Is there any difference?
http://www.rosco.com/mycolor/images/...s/E450_web.png
http://www.rosco.com/mycolor/images/.../R3001_web.png
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post #523 of 523 Old Yesterday, 09:29 AM
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Whatever happened to that guy. He did everything short of making a full size screen.
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