DIY black screen tests - Page 19 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #541 of 1054 Old 11-04-2014, 06:34 AM
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Next variant mix RGB paint and textil...
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post #542 of 1054 Old 11-05-2014, 05:23 PM
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I know cylab said he had considered making a screen with a black mirror tint like film & I have considered something like that as well. My previous project consisten of acrylic for the diffuser to smoothed out over but what if I bouth the same type of sheet but in glossy black because the black pieces are virtually like black mirror tint because there very glossy. Then you could wet apply a diffuser film that I would recommend being 60"×9'. That way it over lapse every side on the axrylic. The hardest thing I had a problem doing was trying to even up a 48" film on a 48" piece of acylic. That was the toufhest part so the next time I ever try to pain stakingly wet apply a film it will be larger on all sides. I know I have expressed my concerns with wet apply a diffuser but I may take one more crack it but this time I will be more prepared. So what do you guys think about the black gloss acrylic sheet or wet applying a black chrome vinyl to an acrylic sheet?
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post #543 of 1054 Old 11-06-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
I know cylab said he had considered making a screen with a black mirror tint like film & I have considered something like that as well. My previous project consisten of acrylic for the diffuser to smoothed out over but what if I bouth the same type of sheet but in glossy black because the black pieces are virtually like black mirror tint because there very glossy. Then you could wet apply a diffuser film that I would recommend being 60"×9'. That way it over lapse every side on the axrylic. The hardest thing I had a problem doing was trying to even up a 48" film on a 48" piece of acylic. That was the toufhest part so the next time I ever try to pain stakingly wet apply a film it will be larger on all sides. I know I have expressed my concerns with wet apply a diffuser but I may take one more crack it but this time I will be more prepared. So what do you guys think about the black gloss acrylic sheet or wet applying a black chrome vinyl to an acrylic sheet?
I would say give it a try

Some tips for the wet application:
- bring in two friends (better 4) - one holding each corner and you do the application
- use professional transfer fluid
- don't be tightfisted with the fluid - the more the better
- immediately spray on the adhesive side of the film while peeling up the liner!
- spray on the substrate, lay down the film, spray on top of it again
- use some transparent film as protection while wiping out the fluid - this way you can see, what you are doing and don't damage the diffuser
- be patient - don't touch a layer for at least three days after application
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post #544 of 1054 Old 11-11-2014, 02:12 AM
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Stephen, did you do full size screen? Anyone tried black chrome?
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post #545 of 1054 Old 11-21-2014, 09:13 PM
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No I still haven't made a full screen in these last couple weeks but my time away from the forum hasnt been in vein. I was starting to believe that a diy black screen wasnt possible essentially because we were only able to get descent results with gray only samples but I believe I have made a "black" screen sample that could be a game changer for us. Here are some pictures of my results & there the best results I have had so far. I feel as if I am very close to to getting what many of us are looking for. The comparison screen is a smoke gray screen so the contrast is already pretty good but if I compared the black sample to a white screen it would be night & day. There doesnt appear to be any hotspotting & the viewing angle is high. You will be able to tell from the pictures taken from the sides.No I still haven't made a full screen in these last couple weeks but my time away from the forum hasnt been in vein. I was starting to believe that a diy black screen wasnt possible essentially because we were only able to get descent results with gray only samples but I believe I have made "black" screen sample that could be a game changer for us. Here are some pictures of my results & there the best results I have had so far. I feel as if I am very close to to getting what many of us are looking for. The comparison screen is a smoke gray screen so the contrast is already pretty good but if I compared the black sample to a white screen it would be night & day. The last 2 pictures are a before & after shot.
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post #546 of 1054 Old 11-22-2014, 05:16 AM
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Looking good stephen, what materials/method are you using? Potential limitations (cost/material based screen size limits/assembly techniques...etc)?

Personally I think any picture of these black screens should most importantly show how the screen/sample looks with no image on it in as much light as humanly possible. That way whatever results one sees is instantly quantifiable.
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post #547 of 1054 Old 11-23-2014, 05:05 PM
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This material is simply high gloss black vinyl with a very light coat of window frost spray paint. Im ordering other shades of black & charcoal. In an attempt to get the perfect balance of dark screen material and optimal picture brightness. The spray paint just needs a light one layer spray because to much smothers the reflective layer resulting in to dim of a picture. I really didn't think the spray paint would work but to my surprise it works very well. It eleminated hot spotting & the black wasn't washed out into a gray. Also the application process I believe is a lot easier then trying to wet apply a hug diffuser. One of the most exciting things about this process is the fact that you will be able to make screens up to 130 inches diagonal because they make these types of vinyl up to 60 inches wide & with the spray frost there is of course no limit for how much you can spray. I encourage anyone with an extra 8$ to go to home depot/lowes & buy a $4 piece of black gloss acrylic (which has the same effect as vinyl) & a can of frost spray paint. Then just lightly spray one coat over the black acrylic & let dry. In about 5 minutes u should have a good test sample. Make sure you dont spray to much or it will smother it out. Just a quick dash across the top & bottom should be good. As previously stated im still looking for different shades of black, charcoal, & dark gray vinyls to narrow down the search for the best balance of dark material with optimal brightness so if anyone else wants to help with the hunt jump on in. Black chrome vinyl will work as well but it tends to be more dark gray then black but that may be the way to go so we can get the brightness we are looking for. I really think the reason all the current market dark screens are dark gray is because black severly dims the white light spectrum of the picture. I do believe that that a charcoal or a dark gray will get us the best overall picture. I have found samples on ebay for just 2-10$ shipped. Just put in the color then vinyl & it will give hundreds of car vinyl results with many roll sizes. Also a fabric high gloss vinyl should also work allowing us to simply stretch it over a frame & then spray the diffusser on.A roll large enough for a 130 screen will only cost about 60-70 bucks. Something else kind of exciting is the ability for this screen to be applied to a roll down screen.
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post #548 of 1054 Old 11-23-2014, 05:27 PM
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Here is a picture of the material In better light. The marks on it are from peeled off diffuser residue from previous experiments.
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post #549 of 1054 Old 11-25-2014, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Here is a picture of the material In better light. The marks on it are from peeled off diffuser residue from previous experiments.
Stephen,
Do you sell or is thinking about selling this screen in full size?
I would buy it, but I need at least 98 inches (diagonal).
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post #550 of 1054 Old 11-25-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by helderlima View Post
Stephen,
Do you sell or is thinking about selling this screen in full size?
I would buy it, but I need at least 98 inches (diagonal).
Its not that complicated. Just look up High gloss black vinyl online and buy a can of window frost spray paint. Then of course use a backing substrate of your choice to apply the film onto. everything should cost under $200 or so depending on what you use for the backing board.

Or you can just buy a black high gloss acrylic sheet, though your screen size will probably be limited to 88"-98" or so and then get your window frost spray.
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post #551 of 1054 Old 11-25-2014, 05:13 PM
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Has anyone else made a test sample & had good results? If so please post. Im waiting on a charcoal & a black chrome sample to get here for further testing.
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post #552 of 1054 Old 11-27-2014, 08:19 AM
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It's always exciting to see progress being made on this project. There are two issues that come to mind about adding spray paint to this process:

One, it's not like the typical painted screen where you can cover up a mistake by adding another layer of paint. It sounds as if this process requires a precise amount of spray -- not too little and not too much. Using trial and error to calculate the exact amount is one thing, but consistently replicating the process would be a real challenge in the home DIY environment. In a commercial application a spray coating like this would likely be applied by robotic paint sprayers programmed to apply the exact amount each time.

Two, how durable is a light coat of window frost spray on high gloss vinyl or acrylic? I've seen sprayed window frost easily scratched when used on windows, and I'd think any kind of scratch or mar would be difficult to repair given that the window frost layer needs to be precise and even to produce a consistent image across the screen. This could especially be a problem if the screen were to be frequently rolled up and unrolled.
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post #553 of 1054 Old 11-27-2014, 11:34 AM
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At first I had the same thoughts as you did about spray pait as an option. I assumed it would spray inconsistently with blotches in areas & running because thats usually what spray paint does but the frost didn't do any of these things. I made numerous samples & there was no problem duplicating good consisten results. The only time it was off is when I just sprayed way more than needed & in that case it smothered the reflective layer resulting in to dim of a picture. If you just hold the can about a foot from the surface & make one pass over it you will get the results you are looking for. The frost lays surprisingly well with no signs of blotching & running as long as you dont over spray it. On a larger surface I cant say for sure how well it will do but on comparison to the smaller samples I have made I dont forsee it being a problem. As far as rolling it up & down you may be right on the fact that it may not hold up to well but that was just a possibility I was throwing out there. We wont no until we put it through its paces but if we have to stick to a fixed screen then thats fine with me as long as we can just get this to work.
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post #554 of 1054 Old 11-27-2014, 07:50 PM
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Thanks for the more detailed explanation. It does sound promising if the window frost spraying process is flexible enough to allow for the kind of human variations you'd expect, such as the exact distance of the sprayer from the screen, the optimum speed to move the sprayer across the screen while spraying, etc. With a little practice on small samples it sounds as if it's not too difficult to get the feel of how much spray you need to apply to the larger screen.
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post #555 of 1054 Old 11-28-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quick look on UK ebay and can not find any material that will allow any bigger then a 80" 16:9 screen

Found this stuff, but would still be limited to a 100" 16:9 screen.

http://www.metrorestyling.com/ORACAL...emblk970ra.htm
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post #556 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 05:56 AM
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Fairly New

Greetings, relatively new to the forum but spent hours( truly DAYS) filtering through all the well detailed and diverse information to produce an extraordinary screen at a low cost and simple application process.

Here is where I became stagnant!

Im having difficulty with deciding from an spandex screen or the vinyl screen.

My expectations (very little) are to have a screen similar to the Black Diamond screen but doesn't need to be black. It can be grey or white if I am able to get the same contrast and have close to true darkness instead of the washout darkness coming from my screen if this make since. I want something that still has decent picture quality in any environment. I don't truly understand all the science and mechanics behind light wavelengths and how it travels. Thats why I came to the expert or those better then me in this field. I recently stripped the layers off an lcd screen. There was a reflective material and an material that was transparent but also clouded. Put them together and put it next to my screen. Let me tell you, I thought I discovered the best thing ever since grilled cheese. Until I came here and seen y'all were light years ahead of me.

I like the idea of having a black screen that compliments contrast to give it the wow factor.So for starters I went to my shop and got a Glossy black vinyl and put that clouded transparent screen in front of it and the image was amazing.The issue I faced is when I look at the screen away from center focus. The image appears distorted or faded away. Is there anyway to make this better and still look good from roughly all angles. Im not picky about having the screen show in a 180 view but just enough to see the image clearly from every angle of the couch. Im starting to read more about the spandex but looking for all options from a beginners point of view with a budget of $600 living overseas.

My current set up:

Have a 150 inch screen from carls purchased from amazon.( typical front view projector screen)
Epson Home Cinema 8350
specs are 2000 lumens and a 50,000:1 contrast ratio


All suggestions are strongly encouraged.
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post #557 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 06:35 AM
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You should look into Threads that feature Painted surfaces, or hybrids of both paint & material overlay.

With all the alternatives available, not sure how you fetched up here where size is a limitation (currently)

Recently a Member posted about applying a solid Silver Metallic coating and overlaying White Spandex, which is a variation of, but very much akin to Diffusion based layering.

Considering the size of your present screen (150") I will state that you will not achieve gain, a wide viewing cone, and contrast enhancement from either of the aforementioned applications. And to acquire a truly watchable viewing cone of say....120 degrees minimum (60 degrees off center) you will need to consider a multi-paint "sprayed on" application. (...of which your current screen could serve as a substrate...)

I won't wax redundant about such alternatives on this thread (...as some do too freely in reverse on others....) so just take another "Day" and review some other Threads that have applications based on achieving the goals you desire.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #558 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 07:25 AM
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Im actually looking to downsize to a 48x86 or so screen. Could the theory be a lot easier with this size?
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post #559 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 10:37 AM
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Well yes....that smaller size make the applications described wi8thin this Thread very attainable.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #560 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumbleHub View Post
Im actually looking to downsize to a 48x86 or so screen. Could the theory be a lot easier with this size?
That 48" height will make finding options MUCH easier because it is such a common material width.

That smaller screen-size will also allow your projected image to be much brighter than before which will both help in widening your options to allow for things like darker top-layers or wider viewing-cones at a given surface darkness AND it'll allow your projector to fight more light with simple brute strength of brightness..always a good thing to have for projecting in a lit room.


For the most effective screen, people will be better able to help if you can try to nail down a couple more numbers. Besides screen-size (which you've mentioned), do you have a rough idea how far you'll probably be sitting from a screen that size and about how wide the seating arrangement will be?

Knowing that can allow suggestions that'll give you juuuust the right size of viewing-cone which means you'll have less need to make sacrifices in areas like surface-darkness and peak-gain.
-The narrower you can allow the viewing-cone to be, the less your screen will be affected by ambient light. This will determine how thick/thin your diffusion will need to be.
-At 48"x86" with the 8350, any gain from 0.6 and upward should provide over 16ftL..with a 1.0gain giving above 25ftL. Going much higher might get a little bright for nighttime use, but you're unlikely to find anything bright enough to actually cause problems.
-The screen's dark surface works with the boosted peak-gain to give you back a good chunk of the contrast you'll lose in a room that's too bright.

Still, any light hitting the screen from farther back (particularly from behind your seats) will washout any screen..even the darkest or most special. You should still try to control the room lights and sunlight to whatever extent you are able. Light coming from nearer the screen's wall and lights pointing away from the screen are the easiest to use without ruining your image.
-

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 12-02-2014 at 01:12 PM.
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post #561 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 10:21 PM
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Newbie

My screen is 2 feet away from my couch to the right and 12 feet away from the center couch. My PJ is 12.i feet away from the screen and 5.5 feet above the ground to make it as parallel with the screen.

I really want to try 48x86 or 48x96.

So which types of materials should I use and how to configure the layers.
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post #562 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 10:23 PM
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the PJ is 12.5 feet away from the screen. Sorry
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post #563 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 11:10 PM
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What do u all think about these results? The first picture is with the flash on. It completely washes out my comparison gray screen but doesn't touch my newest black screen sample. The rest of the pictures are without the flash. Couldnt be more excited. Im really starting to get the results I have been looking for since I first started this project. Luckily the best results are actually the cheapest & easiest to make. Im not going to go on about how this is the holly grail of dark screens im just going to let the pictures do the talking but they really dont do it justice. The last 2 are before & after.
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post #564 of 1054 Old 12-02-2014, 11:14 PM
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Meant to add these on the last post so you would know what the material looked like. First is with flash & second one is without.
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post #565 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Meant to add these on the last post so you would know what the material looked like. First is with flash & second one is without.
Whats the material, and how does it look from the side view a couple feet away?
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post #566 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 02:51 AM
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Don't laugh but my daughters love the movie Frozen so that's what I'm using as an example. Here you can see my issue. Looks great from center view but not quite at different angles.

I'm using glossy black vinyl with a clear acrylic that I sprayed with frost spray.
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post #567 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 07:28 AM
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Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
What do u all think about these results? The first picture is with the flash on. It completely washes out my comparison gray screen but doesn't touch my newest black screen sample. ...
That flash comparison photo is one of the most impressive I've seen of any type of screen. Your latest experimental screen holds an amazing amount of contrast in the high ambient light of a camera flash that totally washes out a standard gray screen.
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post #568 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 09:25 AM
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Will take more pictures from the side tonight. Unfortunately this type of screen is going to have a smaller viewing cone & if you want to increase it will have to be to the sacrifice of other qualities of the material. To widen the cone you would have to add more diffusion which in turn would dilute the black & the reflectivity of the material. This would result in a light colored material with a dimmer picture. If the viewing angle is more of a necessity then those other factors then simply add more diffusion.
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post #569 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 05:47 PM
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Here are a few pictures from the side & the last 2 are with the flash on.
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post #570 of 1054 Old 12-03-2014, 07:29 PM
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It looks like the viewing-cone is narrow enough to avoid even a pretty straight-on camera flash while wide enough to stay decently bright for a couch+1 viewing arrangement. That's a powerful combination!
If a larger screen shows some uniformity trouble, a very slight curve can fix that.
If this is still that glass-frost spray over gloss-black material/vinyl, has anyone tried a large enough piece to comment if it's still easy to spray the frost over a large area without too much trouble with overlapping or missing?

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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