DIY black screen tests - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 1355 Old 12-21-2014, 12:35 PM
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Do you feel that curving helped the uniformity at all? I could definitely notice viewing angle issues but im just curious as to what it looked like in person BigH?
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post #632 of 1355 Old 12-21-2014, 01:25 PM
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I believe we have found the right balance of dark material creating a bright image with good whites but the issue now to tackle is uniformity & viewing angles. I know its been stated that using a retroflective material would achieve good uniformity. I know the Dark Star does & probably all the other ones do to. The thing that sucks about using retroflective materials is the cost & screen size limitations. You simply cant find anything that exceeds 48 inches & if you do it will cost 150+. So I would really like if we could figure out a way to get the direct reflection method to work. It also has better image pop & brightness.
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post #633 of 1355 Old 12-21-2014, 08:04 PM
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I think you may have even better luck getting a smooth curve with thin wood panel more than the parkland plastic which can be a little too flexible. It looked like you had the uniformity pretty well evened-out, although you could see some odd points partway through the curve, that was just the result of the curve being a little too extreme during the test.

If it's dimming too much as you move into a left/right off-center seat, you'll probably need a different material. That's why I'm asking for such a specific answer to how the cone drops off in person from a reasonable side-seating position.

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Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #634 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 05:55 AM
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Do you by any chance have a non-frosted sample to compare to the frosted one? You could place one higher than the other in the center of the screen and see which is brighter from a side seat. ..if you have two samples that is.

If the frost isn't noticeably lightening the black, it'll likely improve uniformity but not the cone. Basically it'll lower the on-axis gain to more closely match the darker sides, which means you'll be able to use a flat screen instead of curved, but it'll be darker overall and still just as dark from the side seats.

There is a small chance that it'll help both the uniformity and the cone, but it's hard to tell without two samples to compare.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #635 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 07:51 AM
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Sorry just got the 1 sample. Hopefully BigH can give us a little more insight on how the screen looked in person. I know the video of Ratatouille looked pretty good when he was on axis. Just really couldn't tell if the curve was helping the uniformity or not. I knew the viewing cone would be narrow because the high reflectivity of the material but if we could get it wide enough to accommodate a moderate audience I would be content.
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post #636 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
How would you describe the viewing-angles in person? Not asking for anything super wide, just a view from seating distance at center compared to seating distance at just outside the screen's left or right side..like a four or five seat arrangement.

Do you feel like it keeps enough brightness inside that cone/area?
Any guesses about how much darker than the BlackWidow it becomes at a side seat like that?
our seating area is about 9-10 feet from the screen. and our sofa is probably 10 inches wider then the screen both ends. it seats 3 very comfortable, 4 if im not one of the people on the sofa - i am bighernan after all

if you are on the sofa and seating on one of the end seats you will notice the opposite end of the screen to be dim. Id say it looses about 25-30 percent of its brightness. but as i will describe in an upcoming post, doing a "bigger" curve on the ends can alleviate that, reducing the brightness on the edges by just 5-7percent. almost unnoticeable. if you are seating outside the screen width it becomes too dim to be watchable.

with my black widow I have never noticed any limited viewing area. You can sit just about anywhere and have a good seat.
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Last edited by bighernan; 12-22-2014 at 09:16 AM.
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post #637 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Sorry just got the 1 sample. Hopefully BigH can give us a little more insight on how the screen looked in person. I know the video of Ratatouille looked pretty good when he was on axis. Just really couldn't tell if the curve was helping the uniformity or not. I knew the viewing cone would be narrow because the high reflectivity of the material but if we could get it wide enough to accommodate a moderate audience I would be content.
Ok guys. yesterday evening i decided to try to get the screen more smooth. Ftoast is right, the plas-tex makes it very dificult to get the screen smooth without any waves or odd sections. I tried to remedy this as much as possible and can say it turned out pretty good, for a test screen that is.

I decided to go a little bigger on the curve at the ends, and i think i ended up with a 4" or 5" curve that really almost eliminated the limited viewing cone when sitting off center (i say almost because there might be 5% dimming on the ends, not really noticeable unless you are actually looking for it). it was really something to behold. it was so good that even my wife commented on how good it looked - thats when you know you are doing something right

2 videos:

One i took this morning before leaving for work, it is just a plain white image being blasted onto the screen followed by the grid-line pattern. any uniformity issues you see are due to the plas-tex not being firm enough and as a result it has waves that create the unevenness you can spot. I wanted to demonstrate how the screen looks as i moved around. The iphone has trouble keeping up with the white background and the dark room so it takes a minute to adjust its focus and metering.



the other video was taken last night, i know for sure the Christmas tree was turned on but not sure if we had any of the canned lights on. prob not. but i cant say for sure, point is that the room was not completely dark. I was sitting on the right side of the couch. pay attention to the left end of the curved screen. looks pretty good, right? i found the commercial funny and filmed it to send to a couple friends. figured it was pretty good so im posting it up.

the photos I tried to capture the mounting technique and how much a curve i have applied.

ill try to answer any more questions.
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Last edited by bighernan; 12-22-2014 at 09:13 AM.
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post #638 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 12:08 PM
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I'm new here (and to projectors) but I had been following this thread in order to find something I could use with my projector from the start - knowing that ambient light performance was going to be an issue. I ordered a roll about the same time bighernan did and have been playing with it for the past few days.


I bought a 3ft x 5ft sample for $35 shipped as I figured it would be big enough to test out a semi-large screen, but cheap enough to not be crushed if it didn't work.
I will say, it does absolutely phenomenal with displaying black.
I took all the pictures below in a room with 2x60 watt bulbs on the ceiling (sticking out from the ceiling) about 6 ft in front of the screen. It's what I would consider 'high ambient light. The photo's make the surroundings dim looking due to the exposure of the camera. With that said, here's a comparison to a white screen:


"I guess I can't post pictures yet"


The 'white screen' side looks so washed out relative to the gunpowder, but you may notice the odd tint of the white bar on the left gunpowder side.


Solid Black Comparison:


"I guess I can't post pictures yet"


Besides the viewing cone issue that has been brought up, my biggest issue with the Gunpowder is what it does to 'whites'. White has become silver now and you can sort of see this in the 1st picture above - this is typical of what it looks like. In the 2nd picture just above, I think the camera has made the issue look worse, it did not have as pronounced a blue tint as the picture makes it seem. On it's own, this color shift becomes less noticeable, but side by side with a white screen, it is painfully obvious. Here's another picture showing how great the contrast looks.

"I guess I can't post pictures yet"

So, I personally feel the issue is to not make it darker, but instead, to find a way to make it lighter (or a different, lighter, shade base material perhaps). With this said, I know some of the white base coats for the 'paint' options are sort of a translucent white. I'm wondering if a single coat over the top would make the whites whiter, provide some diffusion to help the viewing cone, and yet still be translucent enough for the blacks to stay dark?
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post #639 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 12:12 PM
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Well, so that was a worthless post above without being able to include the pictures. At least this'll get me to 2/5 posts to be able show my comparison pictures (or I'll just get the banhammer for posting too quickly.
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post #640 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 01:40 PM
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Welcome to the boards M_Price. Can you tell us what make/model projector you have? I have what i believe to be one of the brighter projectors available with the hd25-lv and it is a light canon in bright mode. Definitely needed bright mode to watch during the day but my calibrated user mode works fine at night. I'm sure even in user mode my projector is very bright compared to others.
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post #641 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 07:56 PM
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Thanks bighernan. My projector is nothing too fancy, it's a Benq w1070.


I will say, watching content by itself on the Arlon Gunpowder screen with a light on is quite enjoyable. The extra perceived contrast really makes it, as others have said, pop. I'm not a big video gamer, but playing Alien: Isolation (a very dark game) is pretty much impossible on a white screen, whereas it looks fine on the matte vinyl. I don't notice the white -> silver shift when I'm not actively comparing it to a white screen next to it.
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post #642 of 1355 Old 12-22-2014, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCORE View Post
My Diy Black screen for LED projectors presents vol.2

HCORE, you've posted a few videos/images of your screen. It's obviously hard to tell how it compares to the vinyl wrap currently being discussed in this thread, but it does seem to perform much better than the white test paper you had in you video. Care to share what you are using?
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post #643 of 1355 Old 12-23-2014, 10:34 AM
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BigH is the curve solution with the GP good enough to keep as your dedicated dark screen?
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post #644 of 1355 Old 12-23-2014, 12:44 PM
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post #645 of 1355 Old 12-23-2014, 12:56 PM
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post #646 of 1355 Old 12-23-2014, 01:13 PM
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post #647 of 1355 Old 12-24-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
BigH is the curve solution with the GP good enough to keep as your dedicated dark screen?

I think it is definitely good enough. After using it for a couple days, i took it down and rolled it up as we are now in the early stages of packing and will be moving to a new place next week. So for the past day and a half we have been using the black widow screen and i immediately noticed how less watchable is is with light in the room, and the perceived contrast i was enjoying with the GP is all gone and It feels like i am missing something now. needless to say, i will definitely make it my main movie screen once were settled in.

unfortunately, our new place has a fireplace with a perfect spot for our 58" plasma tv above it. I am still slowly working in how it would be great to have a retractable projector screen in there for those movie nights. wife is warming up slowly but she wants me to come up with a nice clean "decor-friendly" implementation. the hamster is on the gerbil and im brainstorming away. will let you guys know what i end up sometime in late January.

ill keep checking this thread as time permits.
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post #648 of 1355 Old 12-27-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bighernan View Post
I think it is definitely good enough. After using it for a couple days, i took it down and rolled it up as we are now in the early stages of packing and will be moving to a new place next week. So for the past day and a half we have been using the black widow screen and i immediately noticed how less watchable is is with light in the room, and the perceived contrast i was enjoying with the GP is all gone and It feels like i am missing something now. needless to say, i will definitely make it my main movie screen once were settled in.

unfortunately, our new place has a fireplace with a perfect spot for our 58" plasma tv above it. I am still slowly working in how it would be great to have a retractable projector screen in there for those movie nights. wife is warming up slowly but she wants me to come up with a nice clean "decor-friendly" implementation. the hamster is on the gerbil and im brainstorming away. will let you guys know what i end up sometime in late January.

ill keep checking this thread as time permits.
Would you be sticking with the GP or The Black as your choice? I may be getting a little confused on which was better. I was under the preception that The Black Vinyl was the perfect blend but configuring out the off axis dimming. I may have came up with a sloution that could fix that but trying to see what is a solid material before attempting.
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post #649 of 1355 Old 12-27-2014, 07:49 PM
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Anti-Off Axis Dimming Project Underway
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post #650 of 1355 Old 12-29-2014, 03:14 AM
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Hey friends, I hope enjoyed your Christmas days!
I would like to build up a home theater in my living room in January 2015. Since this idea is in my head I am reading everything about projectors and screens (15 months) and my dream setup was done so far. Unfortunately I am not reaching the producer of “my screen” anymore which forces me to look for an alternatve. The origin projector screen I wanted to buy names Black Zebra Screen and was developed in a DIY forum. The Name of the producer is Robert Hart and he has a Youtube Channel of his screen, if you want to have a look on it.

Now I am looking for an alternative with a material to increase the contrast in bright conditions. It should be a bordered screen. I could see the Draper React in actions but the screen was not so good for my opinion. Maybe one reason for it is, that it was compared to a DNP supernova . =)
Do you have recommendations for me which are darker / better then the react 2.1? It can be a “easy” DIY screen as well.

Information about my living room:
Ca. 20m²
There is one wall which is nearly completely glas (2metre high windows + a balcony)
The walls are painted partly white, partly anthrazit and one Wall is a black and white photo wallpaper
The projector screen can be 2,2m to 2,75m wide

Information about the projector:
Epson TW9200
Distance to the screen ca 3,60m

Thanks a lot in advance.
If you need some photos of my living Room, I can bring some up.
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post #651 of 1355 Old 12-30-2014, 09:26 PM
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I believe that zebra screen and its maker..that was this DIY forum, this thread in fact.
You're in the right place.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
"A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #652 of 1355 Old 12-31-2014, 08:38 AM
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Subscribed. Just got a acer 5380.

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post #653 of 1355 Old 01-01-2015, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast View Post
I believe that zebra screen and its maker..that was this DIY forum, this thread in fact.
You're in the right place.
@Ftoast :
haha nice to hear, that was what I am looking for
I know that Robert Hart developped his screen in this thread, I read it in my holidays (COMPLETELY^^). Unfortunately he is not reacting on anything :-/

What is your experience with viewing angle?`I feel thats the bottleneck of blackscreens :-/

regards and happy new year to all of you
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post #654 of 1355 Old 01-01-2015, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scharla1987 View Post
What is your experience with viewing angle?`I feel thats the bottleneck of blackscreens :-/
I haven't personally had much trouble with viewing-angles (more trouble with uniformity I'd say, if anything), but the folks in these last few pages know more than me about how this particular material is performing in that department.

I'm curious how a curved screen-surface and some of the more extreme materials will behave..as long as gain can stay around 0.4 at ~25°-30° from center, that should do well for the average projector on a 100"-110"screen I think. That should be enough to reach 16ftL at most outside seats.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #655 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 02:54 AM
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Foto my dark grey projector screen 90,,
Test LED projector LG PA70G 700 lumen max
Im using medium 400 lumen for foto...
Max 160 viewing-angles,no trouble with uniformity..
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post #656 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 03:27 AM
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My Dark grey screen...
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post #657 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 03:40 AM
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Foto components
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post #658 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 04:27 AM
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No pixel effect...
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post #659 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 01:57 PM
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No pixel effect -interpolation....
Interpolation screens – the development of engineers of the 3D-tek company which doesn't have world analogs. Feature of screens is the technology of optical interpolation applied at their creation. Thanks to optical interpolation quality of the projected image improves, the pixel lattice becomes less noticeable therefore the image on the screen becomes more realistic and natural. The comfortable perception of the image is available at distance less than width of the screen that, considering the screen sizes, allows will plunge into "virtual reality" when viewing 3D.
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Last edited by HCORE; 01-02-2015 at 03:04 PM.
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post #660 of 1355 Old 01-02-2015, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HCORE View Post
Foto components
Except for Dulux (Gliden) which could be found given European equivalents, but I have no idea what those others would be. Especially the ones which look like cheese spread containers.

This looks very interesting and could be a major breakthrough for DIY and getting around the fake digital look.
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