DIY black screen tests - Page 28 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #811 of 990 Old 02-19-2015, 07:15 PM
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Lol Dave you want to buy my first production screen?

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post #812 of 990 Old 02-19-2015, 07:34 PM
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Looks good Timfrost. Viewing angles look really nice. If you attempt to make your sample reflect a better white most likely you will see the viewing angle drop off significantly. You will have a brighter more vivid picture but it will be a sacrifice to the viewing angle. The toughest thing about this project is dialing in the perfect amount of black reflectivity. If its to reflective/volatile your viewing angle wont even let you tilt your head but if its not reflective enough you wont have that pop of a picture you are looking for. Equilibrium is key once you have achieved white on black reflectivity.
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post #813 of 990 Old 02-19-2015, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Lol Dave you want to buy my first production screen?
I see you completely re-wrote your post. I'd say that was a wise decision, Stephen, but I don't think it was wise to replace it with what looks like a taunt.

I don't have a dog in this fight. My HT is all about DIY AT screens. I started following this thread because I thought the idea of a black screen was interesting. But this thread is starting to take a very strange turn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
stephen77, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. I was just asking for a simple answer about your intentions. If your intention is to eventually share your DIY information with everyone, then everyone will be interested in your progress reports and there's no reason for you to stop posting. If your intention is to take this project commercial and never share your DIY information, then you should avoid being deceptive and come out and say so. Is that really such an unreasonable request?
I can answer that question, Dave. The answer is: No, that is not at all an unreasonable request.

And Stephen, you appeared to be answering it, when you wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
As for my "Intentions" I believe it is only fair of me to voice them in complete detail since im having words put in my mouth about commercial this & that. My Intent has been the same & very simple since I started posting on this thread many months ago & that is to make the best black/dark screen possible. There isnt anything complex about my motives so im sorry for the lack of drama created by a hidden agenda that isnt there. Ive simply not released the materials or the process because Im still not sure if its worth releasing yet. Would you announce a total failure just to look like an idiot that didnt know what he was doing? I seriously doubt it & im no different. Until im fully confident with what ive created then there is absolutely no point in revealing anything. I continue to post pictures in an attempt to gather feedback so i can determine if im heading in the right direction. I currently have about 8 different samples & none of them are made with the same materials so if I even tried to reveal a method to my madness you wouldn't know if i was coming or going. Im so back & forth on what works best i couldn't begin to pin down 1 answer you all might want to hear. As of right now there is no business or commercial product pertaining to a black screen in my future.
This seems like a pretty straight forward answer, which can be summarized as: No, Stephen has no hidden intent to sell a black screen or the plans for making a black screen. The reason he is not giving out detailed information is because he is still, as he says above, " ... not sure if its worth releasing yet."

Everybody clear here? He is willing to share his methods, just not right now because he's still working on them and he's not sure they're ready to be shared, not because he intends to sell the end result.

A reasonable response to a reasonable question, no?

Or it would be, except for that other quote Dave dug up, which points in a somewhat different direction:

"Really starting to think about making this into a business & I would definitely need some of you guys expertise. I will admit that im not the most knowledgeable person in this forum but I dont think my passion is in question. I really think if some of us partnerned up we could create a very budget friendly dark screen that could appeal to many people. For example we now have the material but the way to fix its faults will create a curved dark screen that I promise you if works would kill any black diamond. A CURVED DARK SCREEN!! For under 1000$ would be a complete steal. I understand now why Robert Hart did what he did because there is a lot of work, time, & money just to turn around & give it away. He knew he had something special & saw a tremendous opportunity to get in a market space that isnt saturated with these type of screens for a resonable price point. I have many more ideas ive kept in my back pocket for this type of screen & the possibilities are endless so if anyone would like to speak further please message me.
"

I'm including both of these quotes in my post because I want to make it clear that these are two completely different and contradictory answers.

Stephen, either you don't want to share your plans with others because you simply haven't finalized them, as your most recent statement indicates, or you don't want to share your plans with others because you intend to make money off those plans. It can't be both A and B, because B completely negates A.

Now, I can see you spending a lot of time, effort and money on something, and eventually deciding: You know what? I think I've really got something here. I could make some money off this deal.

And that's perfectly fine.You want to profit off your labor and why shouldn't you? But if that is the case, then Dave is absolutely right in requesting that you be up front about it. The DIY forum is predicated on the sharing of information, on users helping other users with a common goal in mind ... not on selling them something. Otherwise this thread starts to look a whole lot less like sharing, and a whole lot more like market research and/or advertising.

So I'm sorry if I sound prosecutorial in repeating this question, Stephen but there's just no way around it.

Which one are you going for: A or B?

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post #814 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 01:40 AM
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Honestly... I haven't seen anything presented as of yet that would lead me to believe a commercial venture would even be possible.


had this been 7 or 8 or even 5 years ago... the members of this forum would have eaten the screenshot samples and video samples to shreds...


below unity gain, reduced white levels, and with a blue lean, dirty skin tones, dingy yellows and light colors, color shifts rather than color richness, prevalent warm to hot spotting, greatly reduced viewing cones... and when held up to ambient light... rather poor performance for their deep color.


given the performance of todays much higher lumen, and higher contrast HD projectors... it doesn't take much to THINK you've got something special. but since we no longer have members who will nitpick every detail like they did in the past...the new guys are like the last child who gets away with everything...when they're really enamored with their learning and experiments rather than being able to make valid comparisons to known quality screens.
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post #815 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post
Honestly... I haven't seen anything presented as of yet that would lead me to believe a commercial venture would even be possible.

had this been 7 or 8 or even 5 years ago... the members of this forum would have eaten the screenshot samples and video samples to shreds...

below unity gain, reduced white levels, and with a blue lean, dirty skin tones, dingy yellows and light colors, color shifts rather than color richness, prevalent warm to hot spotting, greatly reduced viewing cones... and when held up to ambient light... rather poor performance for their deep color.

given the performance of todays much higher lumen, and higher contrast HD projectors... it doesn't take much to THINK you've got something special. but since we no longer have members who will nitpick every detail like they did in the past...the new guys are like the last child who gets away with everything...when they're really enamored with their learning and experiments rather than being able to make valid comparisons to known quality screens.
I remember you posting this same odd response in my black screen thread and I'm still a little confused if it's meant to be an inspiring (bootcamp style) push or just a put-down based solely on a few random screenshots.
...and I thought you hated the nitpicking/nitpickers who were measuring your screens back then.

On a similar topic, measurements are a lot more reliable than screenshots, so I'm thankful for some of you folks taking the time to test relative gain on-axis and at somewhat defined off-axis angles.
Even just following screenshots with a written description of what you're seeing in person is nice.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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post #816 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 06:03 AM
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Cool

Ftoast- I can share idea in your branch of a forum. There are thoughts but demands constructive conversation. From here me drive and there is no desire to argue with them. Give please the answer. I won't do a separate branch, there is no such thought but with you I want to stipulate some moments.: Холодно:
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post #817 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Let me correct a few things.
  • The HD67n is a 2000 lumen PJ
  • At 4 meters throw, the smallest image it can produce is 111" diagonal (281 cm -- 2.8 meters )




Thank you for your prompt response. Care now to divulge the materials used?


BTW, a 120 degree viewing angle (60 degrees off center on each side) would in fact be exceptional for a "incredibly high gain" screen.....it being only 60 degrees short (30 degrees on each side...) of a full 180 degree viewing cone.

The use of such values is often confusing. A viable viewing cone means that there is no discernible loss in brightness up to the given point....in this case as stated, 60 degrees off center.
MississippiMan yes you are right the projector is optoma hd600x 2500 lumen
here are pics ..
1. angle of view
2. light condition
3. the colour of screen
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post #818 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 08:53 AM
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Maybe I m getting too old or I m losing grip to reality, but do please show me/enlighten me how keeping some materials secret
on a diy forum will help me and my money. I really don't get it.

On a diy forum i see it like this: user x is doing some tests with n materials. if he shares progress, user y, z and w wont
have to go to same process again aka losing time and money. if user x keeps it secret all others have to test the "n" materials on their own.

This is not the "Instructables" where you come with a fully functional project.

The spirit of diy is to succeed where others have failed, not to come with an out of the box project

Don't worry, if you're on to the big fish, you will have your part of glory.
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post #819 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 09:44 AM
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"Others on this forum noticed those comments and several have expressed concern that this might be evolving into a commercial enterprise under the guise of a DIY project. The change from freely sharing information to becoming vague and evasive only reinforces the suspicion generated by that December 17 post. Hearing that "as of right now there is no business or commercial product" is something Robert Hart could have said right up until the moment he stopped posting here and went commercial."


AGREE


"Stephen, either you don't want to share your plans with others because you simply haven't finalized them, as your most recent statement indicates, or you don't want to share your plans with others because you intend to make money off those plans. It can't be both A and B, because B completely negates A.

Now, I can see you spending a lot of time, effort and money on something, and eventually deciding: You know what? I think I've really got something here. I could make some money off this deal.

And that's perfectly fine.You want to profit off your labor and why shouldn't you? But if that is the case, then Dave is absolutely right in requesting that you be up front about it. The DIY forum is predicated on the sharing of information, on users helping other users with a common goal in mind ... not on selling them something. Otherwise this thread starts to look a whole lot less like sharing, and a whole lot more like market research and/or advertising.

So I'm sorry if I sound prosecutorial in repeating this question, Stephen but there's just no way around it.

Which one are you going for: A or B?"


COMPLETELY AGREE I look forward to Stephen's clear, direct answer.
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post #820 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
Looks good Timfrost. Viewing angles look really nice. If you attempt to make your sample reflect a better white most likely you will see the viewing angle drop off significantly. You will have a brighter more vivid picture but it will be a sacrifice to the viewing angle. The toughest thing about this project is dialing in the perfect amount of black reflectivity. If its to reflective/volatile your viewing angle wont even let you tilt your head but if its not reflective enough you wont have that pop of a picture you are looking for. Equilibrium is key once you have achieved white on black reflectivity.
Thank You for your advice stephen77, however I strongly disagree with you and believe I can get significantly better whites without sacrificing the viewing angle of my screen at all - in fact I already am doing - today a sample of 50 micron dense diffusion film I ordered arrived which looks very promising. So did 2 other wet products, one of which is useless but the other is showing great potential.

I made 4 new test pieces today incorporating my new diffuser. I will post pictures tomorrow if I get chance.
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post #821 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 10:45 AM
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I want to make it absolutely clear that I have great admiration for all the efforts that stephen77 has put into this project and all the information he's previously shared in this thread. I also appreciate the fact that it can be tempting for a true DIYer who's put lots of work and money into a DIY project to cut off the flow of information and turn it into a money-making project, which stephen77 clearly stated in his December 17 post that he was considering. What isn't fair is to continue to feed on the free flow of information from other DIYers while suddenly refusing to share what you were previously open with because you're thinking of turning it into a proprietary process and charging money for it. This is not in the true spirit of DIY.

As long as stephen77 continues to be secretive about what he was previously open about, there will be suspicions that he's being deliberately deceptive. All any true DIYer wants from anyone participating in a collaborative DIY effort on a forum like this is that everyone be completely open and honest about their data and their intentions.
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post #822 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave in Green View Post
What isn't fair is to continue to feed on the free flow of information from other DIYers while suddenly refusing to share what you were previously open with because you're thinking of turning it into a proprietary process and charging money for it.
While I agree with this, I also think it boils down to DIY projects belong in the DIY forum, while threads about a "proprietary process" belong in the manufacturing screen forum, not this sub forum. That way people who are interested in learning to make screens ( as opposed to just buying them ) won't feel mislead.
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post #823 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 11:48 AM
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I think this forum should not be call diy but "look at what can i make" because because no one share material used anymore but that is only my opinion. Probably in one week i will buy some materials for tests and i will share all. Budget ti spend 200-300 euros
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post #824 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 01:15 PM
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timfrost91 nice results, care to share materials you have used !?
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post #825 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 02:09 PM
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Wow...now hasn't this devolved.

Yeah Dave in Green, I did miss that "Really starting to think about making this into a business" thingee. But after review I also note that stephen77 also said," I really think if some of us partnerned up we could create a very budget friendly dark screen that could appeal to many people."

Now that last bit makes it seem a bit less selfishly materialistic and more like he was being generously optimistic.

All ya all should realize, that when someone does have the proverbial break though when trying to come up with something heretofore deemed unworkable....and especially if considerable money and effort has been expended, then it's only human nature for that person to think about profiting from his work and ideas to some degree. Yes, the idea's roots did come from the work done by Robert (New Design)...something that actually hasn't panned out all that well for him. (...nothing like Peer review from people who spent "profit oriented" money on something to bring out the discordant viewpoints...)

But also note that the effort stephen77 made was almost 100% of his own doing. Under such conditions, the interested onlookers flock to the Thread....give their undying support and encouragement....but little else. Pretty much it's always been a "Hurry up! I wants it" sorta mentality...The seeming mistake being that for making judgements about viability and obtaining moral support, he chose a Forum when most can freely post the exacting details of their projects. You can bet that anyone whose original intent was purely intent on profiting would not post such details. nor even give a clue about what they are trying to create. This is actually how stephen77 started, but the many roadblocks along the way, and the realization that cost effectivness and availability was lacking help make him reluctant to advise others on where to go and what to use, being that he would take responsibility for their spending / wasting time & money.

Dredging up the past, this brings to mind my own experience with my MississippiMud variants, and PB's and mine experience with Black Flame screens. My motive was two fold...since I am a Custom installer. I started back in 2001 doing Front Projection systems after several years of encapsulating RPTVs into walls to simulate Plasmas(for $1000s less) But the Screen choices I had were effectively lousy...and finding the interest in DIY Screens on the Screens Forum that I did, I dove right in and read up on 4 years of prior posts on the subject. Tried that 'ol GOO first. Too expensive, hard to apply, and a underachiever...IMO.

Soooo............I set out to create a "GOO alternative...a mix that was applied as a "One Coat" application and made from easily accessible components, all coming in at a fraction of the cost. And......it worked great too. Which drew the ire of every owner of a Mfg Screen who had spent too much for too little. Of course, posting hundreds of screen shots that rubbed salt into their wounds didn 't help.but even back then their was a decisive split between true DIY'ers and the Mfg Screen camp.

However, even with freely posting every ingredient, it's source, and extensive "How To" instructions, the primary bent taken by the other "Camp"...as well as a few DIY haters, was that because iusedmy own idea to make money off Forum, I surely had ulterior motives for post on AVS. Some went so far as to claim I probably sent people onto AVS to convince them to by my screens. Yeah...like that made sense...show 'em how much cheaper it is to DIY and show 'emhow much I make doing their scfreens.

But the old adage "Haters gonna Hate" surely applies...especially if there is a bit of jealousy mixed in.

Later on...PB & I took a raw, undeveloped RBGY idea and created Black Flame...initially posting our results and ideas freely. Intriguing stuff....but when we did see exactly what we were accomplishing, as well as seeing others on the Forum taking others' ideas and marketing them, we moved to protect out ideas and work by filing for a Patent. While keeping some aspects and components secret, we continued to develop the idea, once again using freely available components, so as to be true as possible to the DIY ideal.

Didn't make a bit of difference to the Haters though. We had shown our true spots. We had planned it all along, don'tcha know.

So a schism developed. If you think this application has potential, Black Flame galvanized the DIY'ers to a greater extent...and just the same also generated more bile than a diseased Liver. First the Screens Forum was split, then two additional factions emerged. The "We won't use or try anything MM & PB have because they are bad people". and the "We'll try just about anything else because we won't use or try anything MM & PB have because they are bad people" crowd. Again, it all became a case of suppose profiteering although at no time over the next few years did we ever promote or sell on the3 Forum, which would have course found many willing takers. But we declined...because AVS meant more to us in the DIY sense than as a cash cow to be milked.

PB & I have persevered. Outlasted the naysayers and accusers. Time showed we had none of the ill intent attributed to us by those who would have seen us go away.

Now all of the above runs close to home for stephen77 "if" he does plan to go into business. It smacked NewDesign upside the head, but in truth it was my PMs urging him to cease posting because of his obvious intentions that led to his departure. It came a bit too late though...and as to if it all was his original intent, it's up to guesswork...although he did assure me it was the realization that his application would need a Mfg process to succeed, taking it fully 180 degrees away from DIY.

So OK...the questions have been asked.....some not so coyly, and it's up to stephen77 to respond or not...to continue on publicly...or not. Honestly, some of the things posted would drive most away screaming in the opposite direction, especially after all the time and money spent. That didn't work for me and PB, because I was pretty stubbornly against the unfair and unwarranted comments.

I personally want to see stephen77's effort bear real fruit to chew on. I feel the same about ftoast's efforts...as well as every wannabe DIY Screen developer. While at times I might interject some reality based observations and critiquing, that is exactly why someone presents his ideas on DIY Screens. It's all good, if approached openly and above board.

So those of you who are waiting to see....just wait and see. stephen77, don't feel obligated to post your results until you finally have something akin to a wholly ready application. Otherwise, the carrot you dangle and that remains out of reach only becomes a object of uncertainty of satisfaction. It is a very real thing that DIY developers appreciate support along the way...and posting inital progress helps gerenrate such support. But after several hundred posts it get rather old...if not moot, and people will tend to question your efforts.

But let me end with this, making any statement alluding to marketing one's idea oneself should immediately consign the Poster the Mfg Screen Forum....as well as becoming a Forum Sponsor or Advertiser, especially if they owe a great deal of their progress to the Forum followers. If not...then they should let the adverse commentary roll off their backs like so much rain off a Duck's, and just keep on keepin' on.

To everyone who showed stephen77 a modicum of support....good for you. Those who are new to this thread and who have nothing positive to add or say...why are you here? And those who have outright accused stephen77 of having ulterior motives....hold that talk in check a while longer and give him the benefit of your doubt.

Now I must go because I wrote all this under the influence of a mild concussion....so if I get any ill responses....that's my excuse.
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post #826 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 03:05 PM
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However, even with freely posting every ingredient, it's source, and extensive "How To" instructions, the primary bent taken by the other "Camp"...as well as a few DIY haters, was that because iusedmy own idea to make money off Forum, I surely had ulterior motives for post on AVS. Some went so far as to claim I probably sent people onto AVS to convince them to by my screens. Yeah...like that made sense...show 'em how much cheaper it is to DIY and show 'emhow much I make doing their scfreens.
But that's exactly the difference, here, MM. As you yourself say you willingly shared the methods you developed. If you also make money creating screens or installing them as well, then that sounds like the best of all possible worlds and anyone complaining about it isn't worth listening to. The only concerns I see raised in this thread have to do with the sharing of information or lack of same.

Is anyone here complaining that it would be unfair for Stephen to profit off his work even if he shares his methods with the DIY community .... ? If so, please link to these complaints, because I haven't seen them, and they need to be challenged in the most uncertain terms. If no one is making these complaints, then I fail to see how citing them here does anything other than further muddy some already muddy waters (no pun intended!).
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post #827 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 06:55 PM
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... But also note that the effort stephen77 made was almost 100% of his own doing. Under such conditions, the interested onlookers flock to the Thread....give their undying support and encouragement....but little else. Pretty much it's always been a "Hurry up! I wants it" sorta mentality...
That's a real slap in the face to folks like HumbleHub, ger75, bighernan, narhic_fd, kopmjj, and others who've collaborated in this thread by doing similar experiments with similar materials, and who have been consistently open in sharing the materials they've used and the results they've achieved. That's the true spirit of DIY that I've seen over decades of following DIY projects in audio, video, computers and dozens of other subjects. In all those decades I've never seen a DIYer withhold information for any reason other than to advance their own interests. I'm sure that everyone sincerely hopes that's not the case here and is waiting to see how this plays out.
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post #828 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 07:12 PM
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Ya i can understand them saying that....maybe...even though i havent used anything close to what they have used but my question is why is someone who hasnt contributed any work of there own to this thread believe they have any room to comment about what im doing. seems like somebody needs to worry about doing there own project instead Of worrying about what im doing.
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post #829 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 07:26 PM
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I dont have time to go looking through past post that somebody else posted. Believe me im flattered you care so much about what Im doing but i could care less what you think about my motives because it doesnt matter. I know your upset i havent just handed you a black screen on a silver platter but once again not my problem. I know this thread has the phrase DIY in it but that went completely out the window when robert took his intellectual property & went elsewhere. If you knew the origins of this thread you would see that anything goes. Maybe i dont want to make money off this & maybe i do but i sure as hell arent going to let some stranger take what ive done & profit from it. So think what you want because MM was right haters goin to hate.
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post #830 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 07:53 PM
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I would never consider going on for 3 days about another mans business on a forum to simply pry into his personal affairs. My mind is officially blown by this point. I figured this would have died out days ago but now you got me locking my doors at night & shutting my blinds. To weird.
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post #831 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by stephen77 View Post
... I know this thread has the phrase DIY in it but that went completely out the window when robert took his intellectual property & went elsewhere. If you knew the origins of this thread you would see that anything goes. ...
I know the origins of this thread quite well because I've followed it live from day one. It's really quite a cynical view to think that "anything goes" on avsforum.com, and doesn't do a lot to engender trust from DIYers. There are some pretty specific rules posted in the sticky here that we should all try to follow.

By the way, if you are a true DIYer who plans to eventually share all your information with other DIYers here, you should pay no attention to any questions anyone may have about your motives as you will ultimately prove your doubters wrong.
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post #832 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 09:02 PM
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Dave was all this necessary? ? I mean really?? You see i dont even have a full screen prototype so does it really look like i could create a business with my current progress?? And your inclination is a post from 3 months ago where you can obviously see i posted with blind optimism. Come on man your really reaching on this one. Ya i haven't gave material list because A. I dont even have a stable one to give & B Maybe I dont want someone to take my ideas & profit from it instead of me. Would you want to see 100 screens that you designed before you even have your own. If you weren't so fanatically eager for one yourself you could see how simple my intentions truly are. It would also be nice to see your project attempts instead of just sitting back & letting the names of the members you previously listed to do it for you. You dont see any of them going on about this non sense that doesn't matter because there to busy doing there own projects so maybe you should follow suit.

Last edited by stephen77; 02-20-2015 at 10:41 PM.
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post #833 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 09:12 PM
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I dont have time to go looking through past post that somebody else posted. Believe me im flattered you care so much about what Im doing but i could care less what you think about my motives because it doesnt matter. I know your upset i havent just handed you a black screen on a silver platter but once again not my problem.
But I don't want a black screen on a silver platter. I don't want a black screen on any kind of platter, unless it's an acoustically transparent screen, which yours is not. So your attempt to paint me and others here as greedy people who just want everything handed to them, simply because we ask you questions, rings false.

I only care about this because I care about the spirit of the DIY forum: AVS members sharing their knowledge and helping other AVS members in pursuit of a common goal. It's one of the best things about this forum, maybe one of the best things about the internet in general.

What I see you responding with, Stephen, is a lot of sound and fury, but no real attempt to answer the question which you've been repeatedly asked, a question which is by any objective definition of the word, perfectly reasonable.

Instead, you yell and stamp your feet in an apparent attempt to distract us from the fact that you won't answer. Why is that?

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I know this thread has the phrase DIY in it but that went completely out the window when robert took his intellectual property & went elsewhere. If you knew the origins of this thread you would see that anything goes..
And right here, ladies and gentlemen, I think we have the answer to our question. It's a question Stephen seems desperate to avoid, but one he has answered anyway, despite himself. The DIY part of this thread is "completely out the window" and "anything goes."

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for him to publicly share his plans for a black screen, unless there is a dollar sign attached to the transaction, but I'd be happy to have him prove me wrong.

Quote:
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I would never consider going on for 3 days about another mans business on a forum to simply pry into his personal affairs.
What are you talking about? What "business?" What "personal affairs?" This is a PUBLIC DIY FORUM. If you don't want people asking you questions about your plans for making a black screen, then DON'T start a thread about them in a PUBLIC DIY FORUM? Does anyone else not get this?

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My mind is officially blown by this point. I figured this would have died out days ago but now you got me locking my doors at night & shutting my blinds. To weird.
Uh ... if you're really locking your doors at night and shutting your blinds because of this thread, then you have issues that are a lot bigger than this thread.

Good luck with this one guys. I'm out of here. Oh, and someone, maybe me, should probably let the mods know that the "DIY" part of this thread has gone "completely out the window" and "anything goes." Sounds like it doesn't really belong in the DIY forum then.

Last edited by Tangled Cable; 02-20-2015 at 09:37 PM.
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post #834 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 10:37 PM
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Thanks for the support MississippiMan & ImbloodyS. Seems like you all realize how much goes into a project of this caliber & can appreciate how I choose to inform this forum on the progress of this project. As for my "Intentions" I believe it is only fair of me to voice them in complete detail since im having words put in my mouth about commercial this & that. My Intent has been the same & very simple since I started posting on this thread many months ago & that is to make the best black/dark screen possible. There isnt anything complex about my motives so im sorry for the lack of drama created by a hidden agenda that isnt there. Ive simply not released the materials or the process because Im still not sure if its worth releasing yet. Would you announce a total failure just to look like an idiot that didnt know what he was doing? I seriously doubt it & im no different. Until im fully confident with what ive created then there is absolutely no point in revealing anything. I continue to post pictures in an attempt to gather feedback so i can determine if im heading in the right direction. I currently have about 8 different samples & none of them are made with the same materials so if I even tried to reveal a method to my madness you wouldn't know if i was coming or going. Im so back & forth on what works best i couldn't begin to pin down 1 answer you all might want to hear. As of right now there is no business or commercial product pertaining to a black screen in my future. Im just a simple guy trying to achieve the same thing we all are & thats a badass black screen. Im just probably a little more obsessed then everyone else but if there is anyone else out there that has seen a bright vivid picture pop off of a black screen then you know why.
After I clearly stated my answer here you still continued to twist my words & create a bunch of propaganda & false accusations. This is why i have to mock this whole situation because you have turned this thread into a bunch of bickering crap.
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post #835 of 990 Old 02-20-2015, 11:14 PM
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After I clearly stated my answer here you still continued to twist my words & create a bunch of propaganda & false accusations. This is why i have to mock this whole situation because you have turned this thread into a bunch of bickering crap.
I and at least several other members here feel your answer was anything but clear. Your own posts often seem to directly contradict each other. On the one hand you say you won't share your methods with your fellow members because you don't think they are good enough to share yet--and on the other hand you angrily insist that you " ...sure as hell arent going to let some stranger take what ive done & profit from it."

I can't see how you could ever intend to both share your methods on a DIY forum and control what "strangers" do with them.

By refusing to answer directly, and in a clear and consistent manner, you yourself have created the "drama" you are now complaining about. I would invite everyone to go back and read your posts, and then read mine, and see which are the more "dramatic."

Over and out.

Last edited by Tangled Cable; 02-20-2015 at 11:19 PM.
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post #836 of 990 Old 02-21-2015, 12:26 AM
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Just because its not the answer you want to hear doesnt mean i didnt answer the question & if thats the answer i give then thats the answer you get. You dont keep going on about it because that didnt meet your needs. Last i checked we are all adults here so you dont need to ask me if I used the potty twice before we go on a long trip. What you get is what you get & thats that...move on for god sakes. The reason for me being vague is its simply none of your concern, whither im starting a business or not starting a business. I mean its one thing to ask me for instructions on a post but to go off on a tanget about my business endeavors & personal motives for creating a screen business. That to me is crossing the line & simply nobodys business with what i do outside of these forum walls. You dont see me questioning you on what you have in your stock portfolio or how big is your 401k do you? If you had actually been following this thread longer then the 12 hours total you have posted on it you would see that. I Have been involved with this for close to a year & want nothing more then to create an awesome black screen & have put a lot of time & money into this. And when you sit there & say how im just looking for a dollar sign it just goes to show me how little you really do know about me & this thread, Because buddy this has been nothing but a money pit so far for me & there is no end in sight, so before you go & spout off comments you clearly dont know what your talking about do a little research first. Ive sunk well over a thousand dollars in samples alone & its probably going to cost me another thousand(if not more) before Im done. I believe ive paid my dues to this project & if I want to hold out to get it right before i give it all away then thats for me to decide & if i want to turn this into screen business then thats for me to decide as well but i sure as hell didnt work this hard nor spend all that money for you to try to dictate what i will & wont do.
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post #837 of 990 Old 02-21-2015, 01:43 AM
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stephen77- You intend to continue to look for the black screen or we will be in a garbage can a branch?
Your thoughts it is sure will help people to make houses to themselves the screen not expensively and the general free aid by another in it иесть sense of such forums as this.
I am engaged the black screen year and the help of people allowed me to make houses the dark screen which very well and there is no secret of materials placed here. But a problem in that what not to buy from us materials which use in the USA. By analogy of properties of materials it is possible to find analog worldwide. Main description of the principle of work and complexity of work.
And the question of commerce - I is only glad if not expensive black screens come to us. Many will buy than do. And you receive glory and money but people should be helped with it big sense.
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post #838 of 990 Old 02-21-2015, 02:20 AM
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stephen77-I faced a problem to use a film as material because of a hot spot. Almost it is more than all samples or less, having applied paint as alternative to a film it was succeeded to get rid of a poblema.
In construction of the screen has to use at least three layers bases, a dark layer, a light layer ( white transparent)
Such concept was realized by me in the dark screen.
And it isn't clear why screens are very expensive? The TV huge screens not far off and interest in projectors will fall. And projectors very expensive what to be replacement of TV. Small groups sell the screens and here a question in the price is (very expensive)
To make hands interesting and informative, experience is useful in other work, an exchange of ideas between people the main thing

Last edited by HCORE; 02-21-2015 at 02:25 AM.
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post #839 of 990 Old 02-21-2015, 06:02 AM
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stephen77 you still dont get it
Let me show you some examples so you'll see better what's the problem here.

Lets take Robert Hart for example. NO ONE SAID ANYTHING to the guy, there was 0 discution on his decision. But let me tell you
what was different.
One day he decided to go comercial. He came here told us his intentions, changed username and stop posting results. That was it.
On the other hand, this is what you did : I'll quote from mind, won't search for exact words. You came, show us your latest results, then told us you don't wanna share info in order TO PROTECT us from spending money and time (I took it as an insult to my intelligence, to be honest). Now you come and say that you don't want someone to come, steal your idea and make money off of it. Which one is it now ?
That is the WHOLE idea when you join into DIY or some open source projects. People SHARE ideas and results.
MM generally asked people that didn't wrote/tested much here, "why are they here?". Let me ask you same question : why are you here ? to tease, brag or promote ?
And fearing that someone will take your work and make money has no base either. It will always be an open source project, everybody will have access to info. Its like someone would come to me and try to sell me a copy of a FREE open source linux edition. I would just tell him to f*** off and get it for free, you know what I mean ?

P.S. if you or anybody else wonders why I talk, but I didn't contribute with ideas and tests, this is why : my monthly salary is around 400-500$ and I don't have to tell you how expensive materials can be, you already know better than me. I did some tests, but nothing was better then ppl already have seen here before. So in a way I'm depending on people with greater resources than mine. Its not that I'm lazy or stupid, its all about resources.

Please excuse my mistakes, english is not my native.
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post #840 of 990 Old 02-21-2015, 08:35 AM
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There is no difference from a film or paint in quality material and according to the name of a branch - the black screen the test is the offer to discuss any solutions all the same of material. For the reason all material one and too (a difference the price and quality)
stephen77- You not yes such option? Your thread solve.
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