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DIY black screen tests

183K views 1K replies 108 participants last post by  Ftoast 
#1 ·
I have been working on a diy black-screen for a little while now and have made a little progress. I’m not 100% there yet but I’m not far off either. I can see this is an area that is of interest to people so I thought I’d share my results and maybe get some help and advice on the last few challenges.


Here is a link to one of my earlier tests of my diy black screen material. The bottom half of the screen is painted with screen goo high contrast grey. I though this would be more appropriate than white for the early tests as this is a commercial solution for ambient light with a painted screen (well in theory anyway). As I am making the screen for myself, I don’t benefit from making it look good artificially. That would just hurt me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-LDZ1LwAVU


The screen in the test is 80 inches. I am not going to make my 120 inch screen until I am done testing but I expanded the image to make sure my results didn’t just look good because the screen was small. I also calibrated the projector for the grey screen (as far as possible) so as not to give the black screen an unfair advantage. The room is brightly lit from 3 directions. A light above with three 100 watt bulbs. A 100 watt side light and the blinds are open on a sunny afternoon directly opposite the screen which is a touch environment for any screen. I think anyone could agree that it is as bright as anyone would realistically expect to watch a movie in. I could move the screen closer to the window to get more sun light on it but that wouldn’t reflect my brightest reality, it would just make the job even harder or be showing off!


You can see in the video that the “high contrast” paint looks anything but in a room that bright. The black screen looked watchable. It wasn’t perfect but encouraging enough to continue the experiment.


In doing my research, I saw that all the high-end screen manufacturers describe their materials as “multi layered”. Not giving much away but it’s a start. It makes sense. A painted screen needs the surface layer to do multiple jobs which are in conflict of each other. Reflect the whole color spectrum, be dark enough to help with contrast and not cause color shifts, smooth enough give a clear image but also diffuse light so you don’t get hot spots. The mixed painted screen is a compromise and leaves you with a fairly light color that has to be neutral. Too dark and you won’t get any image or an image with color shift. Too reflective and smooth and you get hot spots. Separating the layers so that each one can be the best at its job makes sense in theory as long as the let enough light pass to allow you to take advantage of each layer. So as a minimum, I needed 3 layers. A reflective layer, a tinted layer and a light diffusing layer. Think of diffusing as being the difference between a screen and a mirror in terms of the type of reflection.


The screen in the clip has 3 separate layers. The first is aluminum paint for reflection. When dry, I added a separate layer of black paint. When dry, I added a final layer of translucent screen paint. The final appearance was dark grey. Somewhere between the black diamond 0.8 and the 1.4 gain screen (in color only). In reality, it wasn’t grey but had that appearance from the black being visible through the translucent top coat. Normally a screen that dark would not give a good image, not just because it isn’t neutral. A paint that dark as a single layer would be too dim to reflect anything.


The translucent layer is almost transparent when projected on which allows me to take advantage of the black background. Essentially achieving blacks with pigment instead of darkness. On a white screen, the absence of light can only look like a washed out grey with the lights on. With the lights off, the absence of light is black like all the other dark surfaces. With the lights on, black can only be achieved with pigment. This is true even on really bright professional projectors. I have tested with devices up to 8,000 lumens and all look washed out in a bright room with a white screen.


Now, the screen in the clip was an early test and is far from perfect. If you paint on a piece of plexi-glass and hold it to the light, most paints let some light through. The undercoat can have more of an impact than one might think, even with multiple coats. The water based aluminum paint from auto-air recommended for black widow mix is terrible for this. 6 layers and I could still see light shining through it. The exception to this is black paint which seems to kill most light, even if fairly thin. On that screen, I wasn’t able to take advantage of the reflectivity of the aluminum paint so all of the reflection was from the translucent layer. This wasn’t a terrible problem and it worked fairly well. The blacks looked amazing considering how bright the room was and compared to the best efforts of a commercial high contrast paint. For an ambient light screen though, it would be nice to have the option of adding some gain.


The word tint used by screen companies stuck. They don’t use paint in the high end screens for contrast. I think the reason is that tinted film lets light pass so they can use more layers. Many of the tinted window films are designed to allow light to pass without changing color. Some are also designed to not be reflective and to stop glare. All useful properties in this quest.


The other problem is the translucent paint and specifically, my ability to apply an even smooth coat. It isn’t very forgiving. One mistake and you have to start over. Even with the best of rollers, it is also hard to make it really smooth like a pro screen. Using a solid screen printing roller, I got fairly close in the clip. From watching distance, it is smooth enough but not perfect.


TBC
 
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#773 ·
The black material is flat against the screen & perfect uniformity is achieved without a curve. I slightly took down the gain but still retained an image brighter then my gray test screen. The new sample material runs from the middle of the screen to the bottom left if you cant tell where it is. It blends more into the gray screen then before because its closer the same gain output But whites are still white & blacks are LED quality. The viewing angle is also broader as well. This all is very exciting for me because this eleminates most of the issues a black screen can create. Im about to begin testing on a full scale so hopefully I get the same results as the most recent bigger sample you all are seeing in these picture's. Everyone of these pictures are from my new larger sample even though some are shots you have seen before. I use a lot of the same shots because they give me a consistent benchmark for picture quality.
 

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#780 ·
Ive still got a lot of testing to do before i take it to scale. Looks like HCore has a good paint alternative & he has demonstrated thoroughly how to recreate his results in previous post.I cant speek on his behalf but Im sure if you are ready to move forward with your project he would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
 
#781 ·
OK, I'll be the bad cop here:

HCORE, you really need to start your own thread. This thread has always been about non-paint black screens. It really messes things up to go back and forth between paint and non-paint in one thread. Please be polite and start your own thread and leave this one to those who are looking for a non-paint option.

stephen77, it's sounding more and more like you're dodging questions about whether you are going to share information about your DIY screen or try to take it commercial. Since this is a DIY forum, you owe it to all the DIYers here who have been open and honest in sharing their thoughts with you to be open and honest with them about your intentions.
 
#782 ·
Im sorry I have kept posting with little or no information for how I have achieved my results. I realize this is a DIY forum & recently I have not been contributing to that cause. Since I am still not in a position to forgo the fabrication process of the black material i use then I will respectfully not post until I am able to do so. Sorry if have wasted your time but I wasnt going to waste your money too.
 
#784 ·
Im sorry I have kept posting with little or no information for how I have achieved my results. I realize this is a DIY forum & recently I have not been contributing to that cause. Since I am still not in a position to forgo the fabrication process of the black material i use then I will respectfully not post until I am able to do so. Sorry if have wasted your time but I wasnt going to waste your money too.
Stephen,
Please note YOU have not wasted anyones time AND I for one am grateful to you for spending AND taking your time on perfecting this and also your money that you have put into this endeavor for the benefit of all of us. :wink:

I will also like to say the same to "HCORE" But, It would be better if you did start your own thread "HCORE" so as not to confuse the situation ;)

And Finally, the same goes for all and any other members who have selflessly invested there own time and money to move this project further onwards.
 
#783 · (Edited)
I am respectful to people who do by the hands. Also I regret if my messages irritate, I made houses the screen and wanted to share with you. I leave from a forum..
http://www.tehnari.ru/f190/t93514/index2.html

As showed experiment with RGB particles to sense in the top layer isn't present in general (brightness decreases and white looks gray.) But if to use this mix in the lower layer... as mix looks darkly gray and thus reflects the main RGB colors - it gives us though not big but advantage (a selective dark layer)
Level of the black has to have too a reasonable limit (that is very dark lower layer is almost not necessary) the Big role will play contrast of a projector. Brightness almost not strongly suffers in two-layer option.
The top layer (layers) has to be rather transparent and in too time it is good to reflect the white. I incline to opinion what exactly mix with certain parameters will yield result in difference from a different type of ready films (but the suitable film can eat. that is doubtful.)
Concerning review mirror corners in pure form reflects light in before but how to achieve the necessary corner of dispersion (too wide corner is loss of brightness)
The way of control over this phenomenon is necessary. Perforation or small pimples improve a situation but there is no control as there are noticeable distortions in the form of points that spoils both the clearness and perception of the picture in general.
I simply add light particles to mix they intercept reflection when the picture from the reflecting paint stops being is visible. (it is so possible to control a viewing angle.) But doing the picture of less contrast.
 
#785 ·
stephen77, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. I was just asking for a simple answer about your intentions. If your intention is to eventually share your DIY information with everyone, then everyone will be interested in your progress reports and there's no reason for you to stop posting. If your intention is to take this project commercial and never share your DIY information, then you should avoid being deceptive and come out and say so. Is that really such an unreasonable request?

HCORE, your messages do not irritate. They are very interesting to anyone considering a painted screen. Your messages deserve their own thread instead of mixing them into a thread on a different topic. Most of the people who read this thread are interested in unpainted DIY screens, not painted ones like yours. It's very easy to start a new thread where you will get more attention for your excellent DIY work.
 
#788 ·
As a DIY Screen developer who has gone through the mill of discordant responses pertaining to supposed motives toward "Commercialism", as well as being guilty of posting profusely, I can emphasize with both stephen77 and HCORE.

I have watched stephen77's progress closely, because his attempts were a continuation of prior efforts that were essentially discarded some time ago, primarily because of expense and difficulty. I love persistence in a goal, almost as much as I do the challenge when people say, "You can't do it..only a mfg can."

Pretty much, stephen77 realizes that placing too much emphasis on claiming something is ready for prime time before it is would be grossly counterproductive. It doesn't take many disappointed DIY'ers to sink a potentially viable concept if they find it too taxing or more expensive than they felt they were led to believe. And brook no doubt about it, posting images of what appears to be a succesful application is tantamount to saying, "It's ready NOW!". Such is why I take some umbrage when seeing smallish examples being touted as being representative of a full size effort. They are to be construed as being experiments only...until such time as they can be validated by the developer as being ready, and full instructions and material lists are published. Even then, only effective peer review counts in the long run. And one's peers must be able to make their own projects become a reality before any of such can come about.

To that effect, stephen77 has been fully compliant, but in truth, it's the impatience of some of his fellow forum members that push him toward making statements and projections he cannot fully honor...as of yet. Myself, I have seen no mention by him of there being any thoughts toward any mfg or commercial endeavors, only a realization that to get the best results, a mfg process might be the only way. No...those thoughts have come from others...not him. Yet still his efforts have focused on finding another way....and such perseverance should eventually pay off.

HCORE? Well his methods are essentially a redo of past efforts, but using different & specific components found in his area of the world...and only there. So they really are just "Hey....look at what I've done here", kinda stuff, which is fine on a separate dedicated thread, but as mentioned before, a OT distraction in this purposefully directed Thread. Frankly, he's posted on several Threads, and the main reason being to show what he's been accomplishing. However that really does no good except to show that you bet, a painted solution is a workable solution. But also...he's been asked before...a few times, to post his own Thread...and to date he has not done so. Instead he pops up on other threads to take advantage of the interest & traffic they already have generated. (...but don't shoot him....it happens on this Forum all the time...and with less good intent I might add...)

I'm pretty sure that is because unlike posting on a Forum where members are located within his own area, it's pretty evident he won't get much traffic on a new Thread on a Forum that is based in a Country were not a single component he uses is available.

Now all of the aforementioned is not an intentional rag against HCORE....he's just enthusiastic about what he's accomplished, and seemingly justifiably so. The only problem being no one can move to validate his effort by actually doing one themselves.

And of course somewhat similarly therein lies stephen77's own quandary. How to proudly present something to others that is still being developed, keep interest up, while not making any abject promises. Bluntly put, showing people such promising results from personal experiments leads to people wanting to get on board now. And who can blame 'em?

stephen77, this is your Thread, you are the "Thread Starter", so Forum Decorum states that you do in fact have a right to dictate the content of outside Posts....if not the quality or attitude. :D You can ask a Moderator to clean up (remove) of-topic posts that distract from the purpose of the Thread.. And frankly....you should. What you should not do is stop posting, because this Thread depends upon you and "YOUR" efforts.
 
#799 ·
... To that effect, stephen77 has been fully compliant, but in truth, it's the impatience of some of his fellow forum members that push him toward making statements and projections he cannot fully honor...as of yet. Myself, I have seen no mention by him of there being any thoughts toward any mfg or commercial endeavors, only a realization that to get the best results, a mfg process might be the only way. No...those thoughts have come from others...not him. Yet still his efforts have focused on finding another way....and such perseverance should eventually pay off. ...
You must have missed the following post from December 17:

I actually have some more samples in the works that will be darker then this but they will probably need some added treatment. Really starting to think about making this into a business & I would definitely need some of you guys expertise. I will admit that im not the most knowledgeable person in this forum but I dont think my passion is in question. I really think if some of us partnerned up we could create a very budget friendly dark screen that could appeal to many people. For example we now have the material but the way to fix its faults will create a curved dark screen that I promise you if works would kill any black diamond. A CURVED DARK SCREEN!! For under 1000$ would be a complete steal. I understand now why Robert Hart did what he did because there is a lot of work, time, & money just to turn around & give it away. He knew he had something special & saw a tremendous opportunity to get in a market space that isnt saturated with these type of screens for a resonable price point. I have many more ideas ive kept in my back pocket for this type of screen & the possibilities are endless so if anyone would like to speak further please message me.
Others on this forum noticed those comments and several have expressed concern that this might be evolving into a commercial enterprise under the guise of a DIY project. The change from freely sharing information to becoming vague and evasive only reinforces the suspicion generated by that December 17 post. Hearing that "as of right now there is no business or commercial product" is something Robert Hart could have said right up until the moment he stopped posting here and went commercial.
 
#793 ·
Aolin its a twoo layer.. Screen. The first its black layer.. And the second highly reflective material.. The gain is incredible.. And the contrast is very good eaven its kind a dark gray looking. The best i have tryed untill now .. Because the 4 layer screens are too complicated ,to high price.. no to mutch gain.
 
#790 · (Edited)
Ok folks, sorry for the delay and my absence. Since I've been gone I finally got the manufacturer to make the new heights to 24in by any feet but they are working to get 48 then 60in being the threshold .We've also went back to the adhesives backed optical film instead of the micro louvered film. Plus some other features were included to give a .9 gain with it being close to absolute black surface

I just read up and saw the post from Stephen. A bit upset because he was one of the crusaders leading this thread but it will not go in vain.

Let his progress inspire to push the envelope futher and let knowbody steer us away.


Now for the pictures of the new film.

Stephen was right about the hotspot on my previous film. However, it was very very very minimal but because I'm very meticulous I did notice it on full scale project.

This new film has no hotspots and good uniformity .

Let me be clear. I will provide all details and manufactures of every product I have used once I determine that it's conclusive and universal in results. I have the luxury of having most projectors available readily available to grant that the film will perform well with other projectors. The biggest issue lies with the company being Japanese and getting it open for consumer orders. But they did give me a heads up about them possibly being able to list it on amazon. THAT WILL BE AWESOME!!!

I will be posting a full scale project in a week or so once I get back from work. Stay tuned folks.
 

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#791 · (Edited)
Thanks for the support MississippiMan & ImbloodyS. Seems like you all realize how much goes into a project of this caliber & can appreciate how I choose to inform this forum on the progress of this project. As for my "Intentions" I believe it is only fair of me to voice them in complete detail since im having words put in my mouth about commercial this & that. My Intent has been the same & very simple since I started posting on this thread many months ago & that is to make the best black/dark screen possible. There isnt anything complex about my motives so im sorry for the lack of drama created by a hidden agenda that isnt there. Ive simply not released the materials or the process because Im still not sure if its worth releasing yet. Would you announce a total failure just to look like an idiot that didnt know what he was doing? I seriously doubt it & im no different. Until im fully confident with what ive created then there is absolutely no point in revealing anything. I continue to post pictures in an attempt to gather feedback so i can determine if im heading in the right direction. I currently have about 8 different samples & none of them are made with the same materials so if I even tried to reveal a method to my madness you wouldn't know if i was coming or going. Im so back & forth on what works best i couldn't begin to pin down 1 answer you all might want to hear. As of right now there is no business or commercial product pertaining to a black screen in my future. Im just a simple guy trying to achieve the same thing we all are & thats a badass black screen. Im just probably a little more obsessed then everyone else but if there is anyone else out there that has seen a bright vivid picture pop off of a black screen then you know why.
 
#792 ·
Ive simply not released the materials or the process because Im still not sure if its worth releasing yet. Would you announce a total failure just to look like an idiot that didnt know what he was doing? I seriously doubt it & im no different. Until im fully confident with what ive created then there is absolutely no point in revealing anything.
Maybe think of it less as a dramatic reveal and more as an extra bit of information to pair with the respective photos.

Such as:
These examples here are ... ... ... and I've found that this particular aspect is working quite nicely but this other property is falling short in such and such regard. I'll see next if changing out this ... component moves things in a better direction.
Note to any following, this is information for posterity and any curious onlookers. .it is not yet a finished product considered ready for use.


Or maybe think of it as a money/time saving measure that might keep folks from accidentally walking the exact same road while you're doing the same. Sort of making sure experiments don't needlessly overlap. (With the complexity of some of these combinations I'm not sure how likely this is, but there's always some chance)

Just devil's advocating a little.
 
#798 ·
Hello

Hi

I'm new here
I graduated from university in Manchester in September but haven't been able to find a job yet ( :( ), so have been doing lots of odd projects at my parents house, including designing my own dark projection screen for the past few months. I have monitored this thread for a while but never got round to signing up.

My screen material choice goes down a totally different route to anything that I have seen posted here, although I've only skimmed through the thread to be honest!

I've finally decided to sign up as since new year, I've been having some good results and finally getting the black depth I was aiming for (well, good in my opinion anyway). The images below show the development stage my screen project is currently at. In my opinion, I have achieved good viewing angles, without the need to implement any kind of screen curvature. I am also proud of my black depth improvement in bright daylight, which is massively improved as you can see from the attached image below.

I do not want my comparisons to be misleading in any way so please note that i am projecting onto an extremely smooth white wall, not a projection screen!. I did however take care in prepping the wall for projection purposes and it is now virtually paper-smooth (I used 100 grit, then 180 grit ultrafine sandpaper!, then crown white primer and undercoat, followed by 3 coats of Luxury Crown White Matt Emulsion - Pure Brilliant White)

Please have a gander at the pics and tell me your opinions. The first picture shows one of my latest test pieces in total darkness from a slight angle. You can seen blacks are slightly improved, even in almost total darkness! and perhaps whites improved a little too?, it's hard to tell. What I can say is that that photograph doesn't do justice to the improvement in the black depth (my camera is shocking).

The second picture speaks for itself and shows the scale of the improvement in black depth in bright daylight. (The third picture was taken at the same time and shows just how bright it was when I took that picture, (plus my 3 60 watt ceiling spotlights were also switched on).

I included the fourth picture of the grand piano in total darkness, as it is gives more of a "real-world" example in darkness, compared to the sony logo image.

Would be great to hear any impressions. My next aim is to improve my whites without altering my black depth or viewing angles.

xo
 

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#802 · (Edited)
I see you completely re-wrote your post. I'd say that was a wise decision, Stephen, but I don't think it was wise to replace it with what looks like a taunt.

I don't have a dog in this fight. My HT is all about DIY AT screens. I started following this thread because I thought the idea of a black screen was interesting. But this thread is starting to take a very strange turn.

stephen77, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my post. I was just asking for a simple answer about your intentions. If your intention is to eventually share your DIY information with everyone, then everyone will be interested in your progress reports and there's no reason for you to stop posting. If your intention is to take this project commercial and never share your DIY information, then you should avoid being deceptive and come out and say so. Is that really such an unreasonable request?
I can answer that question, Dave. The answer is: No, that is not at all an unreasonable request.

And Stephen, you appeared to be answering it, when you wrote:

As for my "Intentions" I believe it is only fair of me to voice them in complete detail since im having words put in my mouth about commercial this & that. My Intent has been the same & very simple since I started posting on this thread many months ago & that is to make the best black/dark screen possible. There isnt anything complex about my motives so im sorry for the lack of drama created by a hidden agenda that isnt there. Ive simply not released the materials or the process because Im still not sure if its worth releasing yet. Would you announce a total failure just to look like an idiot that didnt know what he was doing? I seriously doubt it & im no different. Until im fully confident with what ive created then there is absolutely no point in revealing anything. I continue to post pictures in an attempt to gather feedback so i can determine if im heading in the right direction. I currently have about 8 different samples & none of them are made with the same materials so if I even tried to reveal a method to my madness you wouldn't know if i was coming or going. Im so back & forth on what works best i couldn't begin to pin down 1 answer you all might want to hear. As of right now there is no business or commercial product pertaining to a black screen in my future.
This seems like a pretty straight forward answer, which can be summarized as: No, Stephen has no hidden intent to sell a black screen or the plans for making a black screen. The reason he is not giving out detailed information is because he is still, as he says above, " ... not sure if its worth releasing yet."

Everybody clear here? He is willing to share his methods, just not right now because he's still working on them and he's not sure they're ready to be shared, not because he intends to sell the end result.

A reasonable response to a reasonable question, no?

Or it would be, except for that other quote Dave dug up, which points in a somewhat different direction:

"Really starting to think about making this into a business & I would definitely need some of you guys expertise. I will admit that im not the most knowledgeable person in this forum but I dont think my passion is in question. I really think if some of us partnerned up we could create a very budget friendly dark screen that could appeal to many people. For example we now have the material but the way to fix its faults will create a curved dark screen that I promise you if works would kill any black diamond. A CURVED DARK SCREEN!! For under 1000$ would be a complete steal. I understand now why Robert Hart did what he did because there is a lot of work, time, & money just to turn around & give it away. He knew he had something special & saw a tremendous opportunity to get in a market space that isnt saturated with these type of screens for a resonable price point. I have many more ideas ive kept in my back pocket for this type of screen & the possibilities are endless so if anyone would like to speak further please message me.
"

I'm including both of these quotes in my post because I want to make it clear that these are two completely different and contradictory answers.

Stephen, either you don't want to share your plans with others because you simply haven't finalized them, as your most recent statement indicates, or you don't want to share your plans with others because you intend to make money off those plans. It can't be both A and B, because B completely negates A.

Now, I can see you spending a lot of time, effort and money on something, and eventually deciding: You know what? I think I've really got something here. I could make some money off this deal.

And that's perfectly fine.You want to profit off your labor and why shouldn't you? But if that is the case, then Dave is absolutely right in requesting that you be up front about it. The DIY forum is predicated on the sharing of information, on users helping other users with a common goal in mind ... not on selling them something. Otherwise this thread starts to look a whole lot less like sharing, and a whole lot more like market research and/or advertising.

So I'm sorry if I sound prosecutorial in repeating this question, Stephen but there's just no way around it.

Which one are you going for: A or B?
 
#801 ·
Looks good Timfrost. Viewing angles look really nice. If you attempt to make your sample reflect a better white most likely you will see the viewing angle drop off significantly. You will have a brighter more vivid picture but it will be a sacrifice to the viewing angle. The toughest thing about this project is dialing in the perfect amount of black reflectivity. If its to reflective/volatile your viewing angle wont even let you tilt your head but if its not reflective enough you wont have that pop of a picture you are looking for. Equilibrium is key once you have achieved white on black reflectivity.
 
#809 ·
Thank You for your advice stephen77, however I strongly disagree with you and believe I can get significantly better whites without sacrificing the viewing angle of my screen at all - in fact I already am doing - today a sample of 50 micron dense diffusion film I ordered arrived which looks very promising. So did 2 other wet products, one of which is useless but the other is showing great potential.

I made 4 new test pieces today incorporating my new diffuser. I will post pictures tomorrow if I get chance.
 
#803 ·
Honestly... I haven't seen anything presented as of yet that would lead me to believe a commercial venture would even be possible.


had this been 7 or 8 or even 5 years ago... the members of this forum would have eaten the screenshot samples and video samples to shreds...


below unity gain, reduced white levels, and with a blue lean, dirty skin tones, dingy yellows and light colors, color shifts rather than color richness, prevalent warm to hot spotting, greatly reduced viewing cones... and when held up to ambient light... rather poor performance for their deep color.


given the performance of todays much higher lumen, and higher contrast HD projectors... it doesn't take much to THINK you've got something special. but since we no longer have members who will nitpick every detail like they did in the past...the new guys are like the last child who gets away with everything...when they're really enamored with their learning and experiments rather than being able to make valid comparisons to known quality screens.
 
#804 ·
Honestly... I haven't seen anything presented as of yet that would lead me to believe a commercial venture would even be possible.

had this been 7 or 8 or even 5 years ago... the members of this forum would have eaten the screenshot samples and video samples to shreds...

below unity gain, reduced white levels, and with a blue lean, dirty skin tones, dingy yellows and light colors, color shifts rather than color richness, prevalent warm to hot spotting, greatly reduced viewing cones... and when held up to ambient light... rather poor performance for their deep color.

given the performance of todays much higher lumen, and higher contrast HD projectors... it doesn't take much to THINK you've got something special. but since we no longer have members who will nitpick every detail like they did in the past...the new guys are like the last child who gets away with everything...when they're really enamored with their learning and experiments rather than being able to make valid comparisons to known quality screens.
I remember you posting this same odd response in my black screen thread and I'm still a little confused if it's meant to be an inspiring (bootcamp style) push or just a put-down based solely on a few random screenshots.
...and I thought you hated the nitpicking/nitpickers who were measuring your screens back then.

On a similar topic, measurements are a lot more reliable than screenshots, so I'm thankful for some of you folks taking the time to test relative gain on-axis and at somewhat defined off-axis angles.
Even just following screenshots with a written description of what you're seeing in person is nice.
 
#805 · (Edited)
Ftoast- I can share idea in your branch of a forum. There are thoughts but demands constructive conversation. From here me drive and there is no desire to argue with them. Give please the answer. I won't do a separate branch, there is no such thought but with you I want to stipulate some moments.: Холодно:
 

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#807 ·
Maybe I m getting too old or I m losing grip to reality, but do please show me/enlighten me how keeping some materials secret
on a diy forum will help me and my money. I really don't get it.

On a diy forum i see it like this: user x is doing some tests with n materials. if he shares progress, user y, z and w wont
have to go to same process again aka losing time and money. if user x keeps it secret all others have to test the "n" materials on their own.

This is not the "Instructables" where you come with a fully functional project.

The spirit of diy is to succeed where others have failed, not to come with an out of the box project

Don't worry, if you're on to the big fish, you will have your part of glory.
 
#808 ·
"Others on this forum noticed those comments and several have expressed concern that this might be evolving into a commercial enterprise under the guise of a DIY project. The change from freely sharing information to becoming vague and evasive only reinforces the suspicion generated by that December 17 post. Hearing that "as of right now there is no business or commercial product" is something Robert Hart could have said right up until the moment he stopped posting here and went commercial."


AGREE


"Stephen, either you don't want to share your plans with others because you simply haven't finalized them, as your most recent statement indicates, or you don't want to share your plans with others because you intend to make money off those plans. It can't be both A and B, because B completely negates A.

Now, I can see you spending a lot of time, effort and money on something, and eventually deciding: You know what? I think I've really got something here. I could make some money off this deal.

And that's perfectly fine.You want to profit off your labor and why shouldn't you? But if that is the case, then Dave is absolutely right in requesting that you be up front about it. The DIY forum is predicated on the sharing of information, on users helping other users with a common goal in mind ... not on selling them something. Otherwise this thread starts to look a whole lot less like sharing, and a whole lot more like market research and/or advertising.

So I'm sorry if I sound prosecutorial in repeating this question, Stephen but there's just no way around it.

Which one are you going for: A or B?"


COMPLETELY AGREE I look forward to Stephen's clear, direct answer.
 
#810 ·
I want to make it absolutely clear that I have great admiration for all the efforts that stephen77 has put into this project and all the information he's previously shared in this thread. I also appreciate the fact that it can be tempting for a true DIYer who's put lots of work and money into a DIY project to cut off the flow of information and turn it into a money-making project, which stephen77 clearly stated in his December 17 post that he was considering. What isn't fair is to continue to feed on the free flow of information from other DIYers while suddenly refusing to share what you were previously open with because you're thinking of turning it into a proprietary process and charging money for it. This is not in the true spirit of DIY.

As long as stephen77 continues to be secretive about what he was previously open about, there will be suspicions that he's being deliberately deceptive. All any true DIYer wants from anyone participating in a collaborative DIY effort on a forum like this is that everyone be completely open and honest about their data and their intentions.
 
#811 ·
What isn't fair is to continue to feed on the free flow of information from other DIYers while suddenly refusing to share what you were previously open with because you're thinking of turning it into a proprietary process and charging money for it.
While I agree with this, I also think it boils down to DIY projects belong in the DIY forum, while threads about a "proprietary process" belong in the manufacturing screen forum, not this sub forum. That way people who are interested in learning to make screens ( as opposed to just buying them ) won't feel mislead.
 
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