A real biggie... 16 foot wide MM special - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 08-22-2013, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I have worn out MIssissippiMan's PM inbox and I wanted to start a thread so everybody can get the info along with me. Let me fill you all in. I have an existing home theater, used to be an indoor pool, and it's a big room. The current screen is a 16 foot wide, mini perf 2.35 from Harkness Hall. My issue? My projector, a DPI Titan HD250 is in serious need of repair. And it's limited to 720p resolution. I'm going to get it fixed for sure, but since purchasing and installing that piece, projector technology has improved so much while prices have dropped, except for 3chip,DLP biggrin.gif If I had the money to spare, I'd go with a 3D capable 1080p but that's not the case. I'm going to end up installing a single DLP, an LCD or an LCoS. Sacrilege to some, but I'm being practice until I can really splurge...like maybe on a 4K 3Chip but that day is not today.

I have read a couple of really interesting construction threads in which the theaters featured relatively low lumens projectors for the size screen running...16 foot wide. But MississippiMan pulled some magic outa his back pocket...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1294183/reel-time-build-log-14-scope-9-7-17-000w-transducer-audio-dedicated-stadium-room

http://www.avsforum.com/t/942954/16-wide-screen-theater-w-20-seats-and-starfield-ceiling-and-stadium-configuration

I'm sure you have all seen the pics posted by MississippiMan. There is no reason a JVC RS1 should light up a 16 foot wide screen...but it does! So after much lurking, researching and bugging of MM, I'm going the DIY route (to some degree at least, may get the magic man himself to get it done) and I want some feedback. What I'm thinking right now is a Sintra surface, cause I ain't about to try to get a super smooth drywall surface, and applying the highest gain mix MM has in his bag of tricks. And to be honest, even with the 3chip DLP I have, brightness could be much better (it's putting out about 1600 lumens and the screen has a gain of 1.5). Going from a AT screen to a solid will mean relocating some pretty large JBL 3677 cinema speakers from behind to below the screen but I can make that happen.

The main reason I started this is so everybody will make sure I complete the project wink.gif If you all ask for pics and updates, well I certainly can't be looking like a poser.

Look forward to your thoughts and MississippiMan... I promise to lay off the PMs biggrin.gif

My first question is how wide can I get the Sintra?
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-23-2013, 04:07 AM
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Not that wide.

You must either revert to using a Cloth-based material, or the same Polycrylic sheeting the RedTopDown did. In retrospect, I would have advise RTD to use the Fabric. It comes in up to 126" wide bolts, and it can be cut specifically to order.

http://www.carlofet.com/projector-screen-material/flexiwhite-projector-screen-raw-material.html

I recently made a 200"er out of such, and painted it. Gawd only 'nos....it would have been impossible to lift up a 15' wide Poly sheet 25' up in the air and glue it to a wall!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-23-2013, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Copy that. No permanent back damage please! I'm still looking at projecor options but the Epson Pro Cinema 6020 is on my short list. With the fabric in mind...I have a 2x4 frame fixed to the wall and to that we attached the Harkness screen. I wonder if it would be better to stretch a fabric surface on the wall using the sub frame that is up already or build a second frame, stretch the fabric on the floor and then hang the new screen.

In your opinion, between the two options, which surface provides the best end product? I could get enough hands to get a sheet like RTD used up on the wall but if the fabric will be just as good, I'd rather the easier way, of course.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-23-2013, 07:23 AM
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Absolutely go with the Flexi-White. I'm a tellin' ya, had I known about it's properties, it would have been a no-brainer. And, considering the Polycrylic sheet cost on order 5x as much......there is really only one choice to make.

If you want a easy do....you can stretch the Flexi across the existing frame if it (...Frame) is sized "rightly".It'll require a lot of "Ups and Downs" though. Doing the stretching on the Ground is Soooooo much easier.

However as far as scaffolding, 4 Saw Horses and a 20' 2x12 is all you need. Nice thing about the Lumber...if no nails are driven into it...it's easily returnable.

You will have to search far and wide to find a better unit than the 6020...if your using a A-Lens. Otherwise...the Panny *K is the "Go To" for 2.35:1 / 16:9 CIH apps.

Here is the best price on the Planet for one at present.
http://www.eastcoasttvs.com/Panasonic-LCD-Projector-p/ptae8000u.htm?gclid=CNvRtv6D6bQCFQsGnQodkUUA-g

The last 4 PJs I've used for the same sort of application have all been the Panny 8K. Now while none of those were 16' ers, I'm certain that using RS-MaxxMudd LL and running the Panny on Normal Lamp mode, it will do a spectacular Job. cool.gif

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post #5 of 13 Old 08-23-2013, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Right on. I will be using an ISCO III lens, which is ever so slightly higher in price than any of the projectors I'm looking at but I have it so why not use it. Plus it's on an automated sled and I'll use outboard processing (Lumagan) so all I need is a projector that spits out the best image at the price points of the 6020. Right now im thinking DUH thats the 6020. One question just for giggles. This is the DIY screen forum but I have to mention that I had checked way on back sometime with Harkness on swapping out my screen for a higher gain. The highest they could go was 2.2. It could be perfed but that has got to reduce brightess to I know. I know that any screen I paint with RX-MaxxMudd LL is gonna be rated higher than 2.2! Did anyone ever determine what kind of brightness was coming off calbear's 16 footer and his JVC RS1?
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 03:54 AM
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Well, first off, calbear's screen was a S-I-L-V-E-R......, not RS-MM-LL. Secondly, RS-MM-LL averages out at 1.4 gain. Thirdly, a 6020 has 2400 lumen output....the RS-1 only 700 lumen.

When I did calbear's screen, I upped the percentage of Silver Metallic a bit, and applied a slightly heavier coating...all to optimize the lumen output of the RS-1 to such a huge screen. Gain estimates (...and that's all they were...) made by a few elitist AVS members in attendance raged from 2.0 up to a prodigious 3.8. Yet there was very little loss of viewing cone, so all in all, S-I-L-V-E-R's performance left many a bit befuddled as to how it was able to do what it was doing.

Any Mfg Screen at / above 2.0 gain will exhibit all the detrimental aspects of almost any high gain screen.

While I have done several S-I-L-V-E-Rs, most have been because the PJs Lumen output did not match up well with the desired Screen size, and of course, the settings involved dedicated Theaters.

Lastly, you should jump on the suggested 6020 like a Big hungry Dog on a Meaty Bone....before some other Cur sniffs it out. Deals like that one are few.

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post #7 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 08:13 AM - Thread Starter
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PM sent your way...
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 11:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Also, not questioning you but my current screen gain is 1.4 so... Looking at the pics on RedTopDown's thread, RS-MM-LL is a brighter 1.4 than Harkness. Either that or it's doing some befuddling of it's own biggrin.gif
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Like basically 1.4 DIY > 1.4 manufactured (in my case Harkness). Do I have that right or am I having a brain fart? biggrin.gif I'd be perfectly satisfied with RTDs image in my room...
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TSHA222 View Post

Also, not questioning you but my current screen gain is 1.4 so... Looking at the pics on RedTopDown's thread, RS-MM-LL is a brighter 1.4 than Harkness. Either that or it's doing some befuddling of it's own biggrin.gif

A light Silvery Gray that comes in at the same gain as a White will always appear more vivid.

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post #11 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Reading RTDs build thread again, he has a mix of some S-I-L-V-E-R in there or was that the first drywall screen that ended up being redone. I guess what I'm trying to wrap my head around is what I need in terms of a paint mix to get the same pop as his setup. The Epson at 2400 lumens is apparently not going to produce as good an image as it is capable of in THX mode. Calibrated it can get as low as +/- 500 I read. I put out a quote request for a Flexi white in my desired size. Will I be ok with just MaxxMudd or will I need to add some other elements to get the desired gain? Thanks again.

EDIT - actually what's read is THX and Cinema modes are putting out 804 lumens not 500...at least according to ProjectorReviews. I don't hang my hat on numbers as long as my eyes are happy wink.gif

http://www.projectorreviews.com/epson/pro-cinema-6020/calibration.php
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post #12 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 07:36 PM
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I customized his final Mix a bit on the spot with some additional Pearl and Silver. It's something I have learned to do by eye, on site. It's not something I'm comfortable with suggesting to others to attempt.

Sort of like knowing when you can push the limits because of screen size, PJ optics, and the paint application method. Comes from doing it repeatedly...

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post #13 of 13 Old 08-24-2013, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Gotcha. Not sure what to do but confident it can be done because the pictures on here prove it. I have a damp room, mildew issues being tackled but it's going better than expected so as soon as the room is back to a useable state, I'll get started on the screen project.
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