Help with a DIY Screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-24-2013, 09:35 PM - Thread Starter
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First off, All you forum guys are great. MM you are the oracle on this topic. Salutes to you and everyone here.

I have an Optoma HD180 that I got from Costco 3 years back but I never got to set up my media room until now. I have decided to go DIY as much as possible. Towards this, I intend to construct my own screen.
I have reviewed almost all threads on this forum going as far back as 2006 and now I am more confused as ever. I have attached a plan of my media room and I do not have issues with controlling light in the room. I was looking to build a 120" screen (105" x 59"). At one point I was very much decided on a plain BOC but then more thread, more information, made me change my mind to paint my screen and use a Sintra board for the base and paint it. Here are my questions:

1. I am not sure where to get Sintra board at those dimensions in Houston, TX. I tried calling a few plastics company in the Houston area this last Friday but I have not been very successful. Will continue this all of next week till find one. The question is does any one know / suggest a good place to get Sinta board in Houston? What is a better alternative to Sintra? Would Gator board be strong enough? What thickness should I choose for the alternate material?

2. For the Optoma HD180 which is better? BOC only, Painted BOC or painted Sintra?

3. The idea of using a Sintra is to build a zero-edge screen with LED strips behind the board.

4. If painted which paint should I choose? RS-MaxxMud or SF?

5. What is a good primer to use?

6. As you could have guessed I am illiterate when it comes to painting but I am not afraid to start. I have ordered HV2900 Spray station HVLP sprayer (reconditioned) from gleempaint and it comes with a 1.5 mm nozzle. This was what was suggested in many threads. If this is not a good one, I can try to rent an airless sprayer from HD.

MissisippiMan can you please post some links to your spray painting videos?

EDIT: Forgot to mention:
My ceiling height is 10 feet. It slopes on the front and on the sides to 8" near the edges (it is not a v shape but more like \____/ inverted) Also, the throw range is 14'3" and AR is 16:9 as per the projection calculator pro.

For the room colors here is what's been going on:
I wanted to paint the screen wall and the ceiling black and I came upon Rosco supersaturated black #6003. But from it's issues with scuff marks and maintenance, I was advised to use the rosco tough prime black only. This was from Rosco themselves. They informed me that having a primer or a top clear coat will nullif[y the special composition of 6003 and make it similar to any ordinary wall paint from a local hardware store. However, I have no reviews on how the tough prime black looks on the walls and ceilings except that it won't be the jet black. I was thinking of making the side walls maroon or darker shade of red.
I will also be making my own sound absorbers and considering either canvas or custom print from spoonflower.
Thanks for your help guys.

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post #2 of 18 Old 08-25-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mganapa View Post

First off, All you forum guys are great. MM you are the oracle on this topic. Salutes to you and everyone here.

I have an Optoma HD180 that I got from Costco 3 years back but I never got to set up my media room until now. I have decided to go DIY as much as possible. Towards this, I intend to construct my own screen.
I have reviewed almost all threads on this forum going as far back as 2006 and now I am more confused as ever. I have attached a plan of my media room and I do not have issues with controlling light in the room. I was looking to build a 120" screen (105" x 59"). At one point I was very much decided on a plain BOC but then more thread, more information, made me change my mind to paint my screen and use a Sintra board for the base and paint it. Here are my questions:

1. I am not sure where to get Sintra board at those dimensions in Houston, TX. I tried calling a few plastics company in the Houston area this last Friday but I have not been very successful. Will continue this all of next week till find one. The question is does any one know / suggest a good place to get Sinta board in Houston? What is a better alternative to Sintra? Would Gator board be strong enough? What thickness should I choose for the alternate material?

Laird Plastics - Houston Ask for Sintra / Komatex /or any similar smooth faced White Sign Board

You might want to consider this material (instead of lowly BOC) is Sintra "etc" if not available in 60"x 120" http://www.carlofet.com/projector-screen-material/flexiwhite-projector-screen-raw-material.html
A 71" x 126" expanse is only $69.95 Ask for it to come on a "Roll", not folded.

The material above accepts paint like a dream...and if a Frame is going to be needed, it can serve a great purpose and do so for a lot less than 6mm Sintra.
Quote:
2. For the Optoma HD180 which is better? BOC only, Painted BOC or painted Sintra?

Painted high performance coating on Material such as linked to, or Sintra or a Sintra-like clone. The HD180 needs significant assistance in the Contrast / Black Level departments, and a good Silvery Gray surface is the ticket to ride in on.
Quote:
3. The idea of using a Sintra is to build a zero-edge screen with LED strips behind the board.

Such an application requires a Frame, and if that is so, one might as well use Flexi White. I have a few ideas on that, somethings that might make the whole concept a bit more tractable and practical.
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4. If painted which paint should I choose? RS-MaxxMud or SF?

SF for maximum effect (3.0) but involving a bit more expense and effort. RS-MaxxMudd Standard for a greatly improved image with less overall effort.
Quote:
5. What is a good primer to use?

None needed......a initial Duster Coat provides all the prep required for subsequent coats.
Quote:
6. As you could have guessed I am illiterate when it comes to painting but I am not afraid to start. I have ordered HV2900 Spray station HVLP sprayer (reconditioned) from gleempaint and it comes with a 1.5 mm nozzle. This was what was suggested in many threads. If this is not a good one, I can try to rent an airless sprayer from HD.

I'm sure you will find it does not come with a 1.5 MM Needle, but rather a 2.0 mm Get your 1.5mm'er here: http://www.checkoutsupply.com/earlex-hvacv15-1-5mm-needle-brass-tip-hv3500/
Quote:
MissisippiMan can you please post some links to your spray painting videos?

All my most recent build threads have Videos. Go to my profile page and search for "All Threads Created by MM" and you'll locate them all.
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EDIT: Forgot to mention:
My ceiling height is 10 feet. It slopes on the front and on the sides to 8" near the edges (it is not a v shape but more like \____/ inverted) Also, the throw range is 14'3" and AR is 16:9 as per the projection calculator pro.

Is that Throw sacred? I suggest 13' 7". Also, note that the 180 has a 9" image offset, so your PJ should be mounted 9" above the top edge of the screen area. Get a good mount...a Chief RPA "specific" or a RPA-O (...not RPA-U...) Don't scrimp....stability and ease of adjustment is critical with PJs that have no Lens Shift. Get it from Projector People Aks for Kirt Ritari (ext. 2002) Tell him your a AVS'er....it'll go good for ya.
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For the room colors here is what's been going on:
I wanted to paint the screen wall and the ceiling black and I came upon Rosco supersaturated black #6003. But from it's issues with scuff marks and maintenance, I was advised to use the rosco tough prime black only. This was from Rosco themselves. They informed me that having a primer or a top clear coat will nullif[y the special composition of 6003 and make it similar to any ordinary wall paint from a local hardware store. However, I have no reviews on how the tough prime black looks on the walls and ceilings except that it won't be the jet black. I was thinking of making the side walls maroon or darker shade of red.

Sounds BS-ey to me. ROSCO paints usually require thinning with water, and accept such without losing saturation, so where that crud about not using primer underneath came from....well as I said...a bit BS-ey all that. Besides, you can get a variety of really saturated Blacks tinted into other Interior Latex Satin Enamel for a more durable finish.

I might suggest instead of Black you go with the darkest shade of neutral Gray you can find, as Gray looks splendid with Red / Maroon colors while Black is just pug ugly unless it is at least in a Semi-Gloss, which you don't want anyway. Don't forget your Wood Trim. Paint it in the same color as the Ceiling only in a Satin Enamel.
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I will also be making my own sound absorbers and considering either canvas or custom print from spoonflower.
Thanks for your help guys.

From all of us Oracles, we say....get'ter dun!

I predict good things in your future.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #3 of 18 Old 08-25-2013, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello missisippiman,
Thanks for your reply. I will go with flexiwhite. What would your build ideas be? With respect to the paint, I would prefer to start with rs-maxxmudd. I will also get the 1.5 mm nozzle you have suggested.
Unfortunately, I got a omnimount 3n1-pjt along with the projector.
For the paint, can you please be more specific on the darkest shade of neutral grey? All I know is solid colors beyond that I am color blind frown.gif
I have ordered flexi white and will be able to start the build next weekend.
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-27-2013, 09:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MissisippiMan,
My paint sprayer is here. I tested it out with water and the tool works fine. I am also confident that I could do that spray paint on the canvas. Expecting all the hardware to be in before this weekend except for the wood needed for the frame. I have also ordered a Kreg Jig as many folks in the woodworking forums have good words for it.
I tested my equipment with the wall as my projecting medium. I have attached a screenshot of how the picture looks on the wall. Note that the first image has the corridor to the media room lighted.



Please let me know your thoughts on constructing the screen.

Also, I saw all your videos and photos of your home theater builds.. man you really rock. I wish I could work under you as an apprentice!
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post #5 of 18 Old 08-28-2013, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MissisippiMan,
Let me first wish you on the great build you got going right now. To see you work gives the pleasure of seeing a master artist at work. You seem to make it all look so easy.

So most of my materials are here except for the flexi-white, wood (frame) and the paints. I still have some questions.

1. The Graco paint sprayer (HV2900) is said to handle different types of paints. I was wondering if I could use it to pain my walls, door frames, jambs and the doors before I use it to paint my screen. If I can, which part of it should I give an extra attention while cleaning it after use?

2. As for the RS-MM paint, which one is the standard mix? I see three (v2.1) the retro, RS-MaxxMudd, and the LL. I am assuming the standard mix is the second one.

3. As for the screen construction, any specifics you would want me to address during the build?

4. Is there any reason for me to put the insulation behind the screen to make it a sound absorption panel?

I know you are quite busy with your current build but please do help me when you get a chance.
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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*bump*
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-30-2013, 02:29 PM
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*bump*

Ow...right on the noggin' !

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Originally Posted by mganapa View Post

Hello MissisippiMan,
Let me first wish you on the great build you got going right now. To see you work gives the pleasure of seeing a master artist at work. You seem to make it all look so easy.

Mostly it is...but after 30+ years of doing such stuff, if it wasn't, there'd be something terribly wrong. In truth, what is good is that it allows me to provide lots of sage advice. Shucks...some of it is even good advice.wink.gif
Quote:
So most of my materials are here except for the flexi-white, wood (frame) and the paints. I still have some questions.

1. The Graco paint sprayer (HV2900) is said to handle different types of paints. I was wondering if I could use it to pain my walls, door frames, jambs and the doors before I use it to paint my screen. If I can, which part of it should I give an extra attention while cleaning it after use?

If you switch needles and use the larger sizes,(2.0 mm / 2.2 mm) the Graco can do a very passable job on larger surfaces. The limitation being capacity. The 3900 unit comes with a 1.2 gallon Back Pack. With the 2900, all you get is a Quart container.

It's easy to disassemble the whole Head. Even removing the needle is about a 4 second job. Rinse the Feed Tube. Back rinse the gun through the paint feed opening (smaller opening) under the Lid...and use as strong a stream of water as you can. Removing the needle simply allows for even more "flow through" when rinsing, but you really only need to do that when you done and ready to store the unit. Keep the two nozzle assemblies clean (...especially the Brass needle nozzle...)
Quote:
2. As for the RS-MM paint, which one is the standard mix? I see three (v2.1) the retro, RS-MaxxMudd, and the LL. I am assuming the standard mix is the second one.

Yep, yep.
Quote:
3. As for the screen construction, any specifics you would want me to address during the build?

That's a loaded question. Basically though...a well built frame is essential. Stretch the Cloth using this diagram.


While your screen isn't as humongous, look at the construction method the screen below entails. It too is a Flexi White screen...albeit a 16' x 9'er.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1482706/up-and-coming-craziness-big-doins-in-the-big-easy
Quote:
4. Is there any reason for me to put the insulation behind the screen to make it a sound absorption panel?

It cannot hurt...as long as you do not allow any insulation to make contact with the fabric.
Quote:
I know you are quite busy with your current build but please do help me when you get a chance.


I am in the midst of 5 builds at present, 4 of which involve 2.35:1 Screens. (...yeah, I'm stuck in a Widescreen Panny 8K rut...)

But it seems I'm never too far removed from my Phone or Lap Top, and when people chuck a rock at me to get my attention like you did...I'm compelled to respond forthwith.

It's my lot in life...as it is. redface.gif

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #8 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello MM / All,
Its been quite an exciting journey for me in building this media room. I finally got started around mid-september and working mostly on the weekend. I have posted some picture of my build at my website. Below are some of the pictures taken as I was painting the screen. Sorry for the poor quality as it was done using a cell phone camera in low light.

I decided to go with the SilverFire just as I was getting ready to start with my screen. All the work that I did to get the room into shape made me feel that mixing SilverFire wasn't going to be very difficult (as in effort) but would be a good challenge.

After I finished painting I noticed a smudge across the screen but that doesn't seem to be too noticeable. In case it bothers the movie experience, I will go ahead and fix it as well.

MM can you please let me know your opinion on the quality of paint mix and the spray painting?

I have a whole lot of information to share regarding this whole process but that would have to wait for another day when I have some energy left in me. Now I am onto absorption panels; I have decided to order them from GIK acoustics rather then build them at the point. The boss at home does not want me to spend more weekends away and I concur smile.gif

Mixed SilverFire V2 3.0



First duster coat:




Screen after first duster coat:



Second duster coat:




MM, Are these good for the first two duster coats or should have I have gone more slow/fast with these?
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post #9 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 12:47 PM
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They look very even and well applied.

After the 3rd or 4th coat, lightly sand smooth, reducing any texture your fingertips can feel then continue with your Dusters.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #10 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 12:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I am confused.. I thought there were to be 2 duster coats and 2 medium (almost finish) and one final finish coat. I never knew that they had to be sanded. I searched the SF thread high and low and never saw a thread that said something on those lines (except where someone had an existing painted screen). The problem is that I have applied the velvet border on the screen and mounted it. Below is a picture of the screen as of now (which in my mind was done..What am I thinking)

CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 95
CREATOR: gd-jpeg v1.0 (using IJG JPEG v80), quality = 95

I don't mind doing the extra stuff if it really makes a difference. I will post the picture of the screen with a movie projected on it. But can you tell me how this looks? I will post finer pictures this evening.

Thanks for everything MM. Couldn't and Wouldn't have done this without you and everyone else here.
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post #11 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 01:17 PM
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Well your post didn't mention that you were proceeding apace with more coats, or that you were done.

No matter...you surface looks very good. However if you can feel any degree of slight bumpy texture....you can only improve your screen's transparency by a light sanding and two evenly applied dusters.

A "Finish Coat" refers to a coat applied in Duster fashion only at 2' per second instead of the faster, sweep-like 3' per second, so that slightly more paint is applied. The 70% overlap as well as distance remains the same.

Here is a "Macro" image of a SF v2.5 4.0 surface virtually devoid of texture, additionally magnified 400x



The darker area is the shadow of the Camera

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post #12 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MM,
sorry for the confusion. As I said am drained out today abd not thinking straight. I should have mentioned that the screen was on the wall. as you said, it feels rubbery and very very slightly rough not really bumpy like how my initial duster felt. I think the rubbery might go away as the paint cuts but then this is a novice assuming.
had a personal situation for having to do this whole screen painting superfast and not checking back qith you more often. I did make sure to keep a 70% overlap and the slowest speed I did was slightly over 1ft per second at 11" - 12" distance.
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post #13 of 18 Old 10-28-2013, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MM,
Here are some updated pictures. The first two are a macro shot. I used a LED bulb to light up the screen surface to avoid flash and used my note 2 to take these images. The black bars you see are actually shadows of the bulb holder.


The images below are from cars 2 HD trailer on youtube (at 720p resolution) using my Laptop's output. All the lights that are in and near the room have been turned on at their full brightness and the images were taken as the movie was playing (not paused).







Also,
I have a very small suggestion to make. It will be immensely helpful to post the proper application method for the standard screen materials as a second post on all of the official paint threads. Novice DIYers like myself would not get so confused and frustrated with starting off on the basics and we can reach out for help with only when we have specific questions regarding our own situations.
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post #14 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 08:55 AM
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Suggestion noted.

As for the observed texture, it may well not be an issue with you dependent upon your own visual acuity, and the ability to resolve tiny variations in detail from your viewing distance. Myself, I make my judgements from less than 4' from the screen, knowing that if I cannot see any visible texture, seeing such from any normal viewing distance should be impossible for anyone except Lasik-Assisted Mutants.

What I am seeing is a slight case of orange peel....but not with the dreaded "Goose Bump" texture which would be the most detrimental. As such, only bright, mono-colored areas will exhibit such paint induced texture issues, especially if invo9lved with camera panning.

Some people can resolve a freckle on a Gnat's arse from 16' way, and as such the concept of having a "Invisible Screen' would elude them...and be wholly unacceptable. At this conjecture, since a fix is not completely intractable, it has to be "your call" to make.

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post #15 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello MM,
Thanks for your opinion. Given the reasons I mentioned earlier, I would probably put this off for later. For now, it would be easier to hang a board that says "1. People who can resolve a freckle on a Gnat's arse from 16' way not allowed" smile.gif
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post #16 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 10:29 AM
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...also to exclude "Lasik-Assisted Mutants".....let's not forget them!

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #17 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello MM,
I was giving some thought to this today and I was wondering if just light sanding the screen with something like an super-fine (1200-1500 grit) would make some difference with the texture?
I am a cat-on-the-wall with this smile.gif
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post #18 of 18 Old 10-29-2013, 05:18 PM
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Might as well toss a Shoe at that darn Cat, 'cause he's not a'gonna do anybody much good a'scratchin' around on the Screen with1200 grit paper. That's like sending a de-clawed cat out to climb a Birch tree.

Sanding to get rid of texture means "removing" at least the portion that is raised above any given level. That means using a 150 grit sanding "Medium Grit Large Sanding Sponge", something you can "knock out" paint build up as you work.

Even 400 Grit Paper would almost immediately load up with debris. And that without removing much of anything noticeable. Nope, such sanding is strictly reserved for reducing sheen only, and even then you'd have to be very exacting to create a surface that would show no variations across a large, reflective surface.

It's like this....you will appreciate the difference if you did do as suggested ....I'd stake all my credence and credibility on it. It isn't as if your starting from "scratch", so get out of the Litter Box and go sand and "Spray".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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