Silver Fire FX (Fusion eXtreme) - Black Screen & Light Fusion refined. - Page 3 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 86 Old 04-16-2014, 04:09 AM
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What was the price you found in the US? I can buy it in germany for 19€ 25€ by linear meter (48" wide). Depending on your curiousity I would send you a linear meter of each as a gift...

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post #62 of 86 Old 04-16-2014, 04:22 AM
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Hi Mississippi Man,

Do you know Stewart Firehawk G3/G4 surface?
What diy curved screen solution do you propose to equal this one?

Thanks !

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post #63 of 86 Old 04-16-2014, 05:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cylab View Post

What was the price you found in the US? I can buy it in germany for 19€ by linear meter (48" wide). Depending on your curiousity I would send you a linear meter of each as a gift...

I could only find it being exported / offered by the 25 meter Roll, which is why I deemed it expensive. There may be a Vendor or Supply House that will cut-to-order but I could find no link to such via my initial search.

Absolutely I'm curious....it would be, is pretty narrow minded to dismiss anything out of hand without a complete examination. Goodness knows enough people have done so on here with something as simple as paint. rolleyes.gif

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post #64 of 86 Old 04-16-2014, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gn0m4 View Post

Hi Mississippi Man,

Do you know Stewart Firehawk G3/G4 surface?
What diy curved screen solution do you propose to equal this one?

Thanks !

6 MM Sintra attached to a curved Frame or spaced Blocking, and spray painted with Silver Fire v2.5 2.0

Silver Fire has been "Roastin' that Bird" for some time now. tongue.gif
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post #65 of 86 Old 04-21-2014, 05:34 PM
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You know guys, next Monday will make this thread 6 MONTHS OLD eek.gifeek.gifeek.gif . Don't know about others on here but I'm wondering if it's going to be a year before we see some "Silver Fire FX" samples up here and a working formula for use to take a shot at it, lol biggrin.gifbiggrin.gif . How are things going with the formula and did you get the extra spray parts to pb_maxxx so he can begin spraying??Any idea when we might get the chance to see some pics of this screen in action???
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post #66 of 86 Old 04-28-2014, 07:06 AM
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Happy 6 months, thread.
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post #67 of 86 Old 05-10-2014, 10:04 AM
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Was a good idea at first maybe it will happen before the start of football

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post #68 of 86 Old 05-11-2014, 09:12 PM
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I'm thinking perhaps that commercial implications are behind the silence here. Wouldn't mind if that were the case, but would love to know for sure.
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post #69 of 86 Old 05-12-2014, 03:32 AM
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No....it is probably some personal or work related reasons that PB- Maxx has not had the time to proceed with the experimentation. I sent him what was necessary to move forward.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #70 of 86 Old 05-12-2014, 04:05 AM
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wrong thread

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post #71 of 86 Old 05-12-2014, 04:09 AM
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You could certainly build such a screen, but because it is a specific project it would be best if you alter a dedicated thread

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #72 of 86 Old 05-31-2014, 01:27 PM
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This thread hasn't been active for a bit. Hows the progress going for the screen? Any idea on when we'll get to see some samples posted?
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post #73 of 86 Old 09-06-2014, 06:21 AM
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Any news on this Mississippi ????
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post #74 of 86 Old 09-08-2014, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post
Any news on this Mississippi ????
There's something going on in the background that we're not aware of - might be that "commercial" thing hinted at in an earlier post.
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post #75 of 86 Old 09-08-2014, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hank View Post
There's something going on in the background that we're not aware of - might be that "commercial" thing hinted at in an earlier post.

Nope. Besides, that "hint" wasn't a Hint...it was merely some personal conjecture by Dennis.....nothing such as been remotely expressed, implied, or "hinted" at by PB or myself.

The "background" is that PB is busy working his "real" job to make money to take care of his Twin Daughters and his older Daughter. He will get around to it...his further experimentation, but until then I would not expect any sudden revelations to be forthcoming.
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post #76 of 86 Old 09-09-2014, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Nope. Besides, that "hint" wasn't a Hint...it was merely some personal conjecture by Dennis.....nothing such as been remotely expressed, implied, or "hinted" at by PB or myself.

The "background" is that PB is busy working his "real" job to make money to take care of his Twin Daughters and his older Daughter. He will get around to it...his further experimentation, but until then I would not expect any sudden revelations to be forthcoming.
I understand just looking to get the Graco and 1.0 tip out
and try another master piece by you guy's.

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post #77 of 86 Old 09-11-2014, 06:19 AM
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It's all good.

This purported application is simply a Hybrid that will try to substitute one thing for another....

Personally speaking, at this conjecture I would not wait or delay any plans as the available alternatives are already exceptional.

One thing you can always be certain of....if I come on and lay down something new myself, it will already have been tested in the Real World...full sized....and there will be no waiting for a "reveal".

But as mentioned before, cut PB slack as family issues must always come first.
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post #78 of 86 Old 10-17-2014, 11:10 PM
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I have my eyes keenly on this thread as it appears to be exactly what I need. I am practically going crazy exploring every dark screen paint option out there and every single time I keep coming right back to silverfire. But my concern with the current silverfire v2.5 mix is that I feel like I am crazy or excessive when I say am trying to go for a 7.0-12.0 (if possible) mix.

Sigh, maybe I just wait for this one... I have so far already been waiting for almost a year so maybe another year won't kill me.


After all the research I have been doing towards making my own black screen I think I have a pretty good idea how this SF FX model will work. And it holds some similarities to what I am planning on doing.

The base mix is probably going to be reflective components mix. The UPW is probably what is gonna get axed.. Then I have no idea what will be the fusion coat. Probably something extremely translucent Maybe polyurethane. The the top coat will be the color components and the added component to this would be something that will result in this mix ending up as a very deep shade of grey.

In my application I am basically using starting with a diffuse reflective film and painting the silver reflective mix on that. Then just painting the top coat black. Plan on spraying 4 coats of the silver mix and 2-3 coats of the black paint. I considered making a super dark grey mix using colorants but I have zero experience mixing paints and would have no clue on what I was doing lol. But if I could I would have preferred making a super dark grey mix from the colorants, something like N2/3 grey.

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post #79 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 03:37 AM
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"@MississippiMan or pb_maxxx: Are there any news on the once posted "Silver Fire FX - Black Screen Light Fusion" project?" - skogaard

"Post this on the SF v2.5 thread. This Thread already has a distinct and purposeful intent that needs it's own focus." - MississippiMan

Wouldn't it be also ok here? I just wanted to ask if you guys have any information, since there has been some criticism about the black screens in the other threads regarding whites and colors etc. Even if it is not perfect yet, I think there are certainly some experiences you guys made which led you to create this thread.
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post #80 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 04:20 AM
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Poor whites/colors from a black screen?BLASPHEMY!

But in all seriousness, it will be nice to have a guaranteed sprayable dark/black mix in the form of SF-FX though there may be a practical limit of N5-N5.5grey if you're still shooting for 1.2-1.3gain along with a non-curved screen...though a long-throw projector like the 5025 could pull-of going darker if used near the end of its range. With your usual leaning toward better uniformity and brighter/closer projector mounting, I'm guessing that kind of restriction isn't in the plan.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #81 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 05:43 AM
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The images of the Models,with the UHD levels and florescent Hair color, set in a black background are at best optimized to show the centralized content. That seems to be a governing theme in most of your representative shots. Yet upon closer examination, such as looking at the top left image down to the bottom left images, all of whom were taken in the dark, all clearly show the crushing of lighter colors.

While the amount of Metallic Content does allow the brighter Colors to achieve a more rich, deeper appearance, the skin tones are very drab. So the combination isn't showing to be all that more effective than anything else, if as much. The intensity and saturation of any projected color determines the amount of energy inherent in the light that strikes a screen. Flesh tones are less intense than a bright Red or Purple. That is why the most carefully done comparisons show broad areas of skin tone so that a comparison between A & B areas can be easily and clearly seen. Flesh tones and lighter colors, and less deep blacks also lose more dynamics quicker under ambient light than more intense or deeper hued shades, so any comparisons that include those (lighter) things can more effectively show what has been retained...or lost....as the case might be.

The Top image, looking at the Model's left cheek, shows a clear, healthy skin tone in the white sample area, and a almost Grey, "walking dead" tone elsewhere....in comparison* Of course the Model herself is almost pasty white, so some consideration is made for that. White goes to Grey more quickly than does Red or Yellow.
(*I qualify that remark by adding that only in such a comparison is the extreme difference noticeable. Still, many have noted such "White" loss exists on their screens.)

The middle shot on the left shows even more of the same....even with the Model's skin being more 'red' in color.
.........and the in the bottom shot, the Model's chin and lower hair take significant hits.

But most curiously, one can see that the top image is a much smaller framed shot, set within the dark screen, and the white sample in the middle shot clearly shows the perimeter of that "framing" as well as how much attenuation is actually happening within the image area. Yes, the Black areas look blacker, but that is only because the incoming light is being swallowed up, and that is counterproductive to showing fine grey scaled detail and more subtle shadows.

None of which are in those shots anyway, and their omission doesn't allow for any really valid determinations to be made....let alone any calls about "Blasphemy" being unwarranted.

The final blow coming from the observed difference seen in the high ambient light shots. Everything is still being crushed, so the comparison with the White example at the bottom is really a moot point. In such a case, it's all about what is happening within the content.

No....it will take a more diverse sampling of content.....non-static, film / video content that has not had it's color spectrum artificially enhanced by the Photographer, before any real ascertain can be made.

All that said, and as I have said before, Ftoast's effort bears a close consideration for anyone with adequate Lumen Horsepower (...claims to the contrary do not help the case...) just as all darker Grey screens also qualify to somewhat lessor extent. The Metallic content employed in the examples above is a definite advantage, and under the right circumstances and set-up, will produce a superior image than any basic, unadulterated Neutral Gray of any comparable shade. What is seen above is obvious testimony to that...because if those examples where of the same shade of a plain 'ol Neutral Grey, being hit by the PJ in use (?) they would be far more than worse...they would be pug-ugly lookin'. The examples above are certainly not.

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post #82 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 06:14 AM
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Going as dark as N4 (very dark grey), on-axis brightness can approach around 0.7gain (about as bright as an N8.5 grey) while far off-axis brightness falls to 0.45gain (N7grey) at center and the opposite/darkest side falls all the way to 0.2gain (N5grey) though the brightness difference is gradual enough to be hard to see by eye without a direct visual reference-point.

With 400lumens hitting 110", that gives only 5-8ftL though the results look oddly bright and pleasing in person with the deep black-levels and contrast retained.

If you or anyone else can manage to squeeze out an even higher gain from an equally dark painted surface without wrecking uniformity, that's a win for everybody as far as I'm concerned.


And for the record, those shots were chosen when folks requested more "eye-candy" and less evaluative material. ..you've already seen that my usual choice of clips (and the video of this very screen) use more diverse scenes and angles. Sadly it seems more folks prefer the black and neon approach than the mixed APL live-action stuff. Otherwise you'd see a lot less pixar and avatar in screenshots.
(pictures and joke removed because I felt like a jerk for posting them here for the last several hours..MM didn't ask for their removal or anything like that).
While I do enjoy discussing and even arguing with you guys, MM and PB, my earlier post was unnecessary. Sorry about that.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

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post #83 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 08:00 AM - Thread Starter
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while I don't post much these days... I still do follow the forum on a regular basis...
i'm especially interested when I see the enthusiasm behind some of the new folks and their desire to do black screens.


i'm afraid that in their enthusiasm to go as black-screen as possible they've either lost sight of... or just aren't aware of what the attributes of a quality screen are. or perhaps they couldn't care less to "match" the qualities of reference whites levels while ALSO improving upon perceived black levels.


first of all... i'm finding it VERY hard to be able to determine much of anything from the LACK of quality screen shots that are posted... honest guys, give us some screen shots with a LITTLE bit of detail. I've seen better screens shots from tube TV's than many of the one's being shown recently.


2nd, if are going to use a white sample... make it large enough so that you're camera doesn't zoom in on and oversaturate the white sample making it appear that their is no image on it at all... because that's NOT the reality. trust me, i know.


The purpose of the white sample is NOT to show that you've achieved black levels over it in ambient light. By gosh, you better have! In visible light with or without a projector, a black screen is black and a white sample is white. it's that simple.


The purpose of the white sample IS to show you've achieved a screen who's qualities are EVERY bit as CLOSE to white as possible in the midst of improved perceived contrast. In other words, a screen that has NOT lost white levels, dirty flesh tones, and suffers from a colors that are SHIFTED downward on the color palate.


it's pretty easy to achieve a viewable image on a dark screen vs a white one... but the real challenge is MATCH the qualities of reference white screen...toe to toe... on white levels, flesh tones, and color detail, without color shifting... when the lights are completely out.


The goals and achievements so SF / Black Flame / FX have always been the same... and we will not sacrifice by allowing for a bunch of caveats when it's time for some real controlled discernible viewing.
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post #84 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 10:36 AM
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Is the "Silver Fire v2.5 5.0 Screen on Barbados" comparable to what was intended showing here in this thread with Silver Fire FX? Because the Barbados screen looks very nice ...
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post #85 of 86 Old 02-04-2015, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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...here's the color of FX. (Container on the left)

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post #86 of 86 Old 02-05-2015, 12:43 PM
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Wow, seems promising! Do you have any pictures of a screen with that paint? Would be very interesting to see
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