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post #1 of 20 Old 11-26-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Calling Mississippi Man (and/or others)....

 

Could I please get a recommendation on a paint mix for my setup.  Nothing is purchased or built yet, just planning.

 

Screen Geometry: gently curved drywall 13' wide and 7'4" tall 180" dia. (16:9).

Projector: probably the BenQ w1070 or the short throw version.

Ambient light: dark room for movies, some lower level lighting for sports viewing. 

 

Based on the projector central calculator to get an image brightness of 12 fl I would need a 1.2 gain screen at a minimum.  I am thinking I need allot more fl for the sports viewing and 3D.

 

Here is a link to my room build page:

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1499928/4seahorsemans-basement-ht

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post #2 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 02:07 AM
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Hello 4seahorseman,

First off I must ask why you want a curved screen? You have no "barreling" to correct for since your not using a anamorphic lens.

Secondly, the BenQ is underpowered for use in "any" 3D format at anywhere remotely the size your envisioning. When one is contemplating a build such as yours, no compromising on anything is going to work.

Your screen size is something to weigh in on, in relation to whatever PJ you can choose. We need to take a reasonable look at every parameter of your build as far as screen size, and gain, as well as seating distance as relates to known PJ performance envelopes. I noted you want to go BIG....more than the 150" diagonal you have been accustomed to. Frankly speaking, if the resolution you were viewing, the screen "presence", the viewing distance....all were deemed acceptable to you, your probably going to be fairly easy to please. But it's not in the nature of how we / I advise people to just make do because someone's expectations are lower than what we / I are accustomed to.

There are DIY mixes (...one in particular...) that can accomplish what you want done, but none have the honest-to-goodness 2.0+ gain you'd need to assure excellent 3D performance. And the application of such finishes will not be something you can just roll onto drywall. Your going to have to compensate by having adequate lumen output.

Let's look to some practical solutions and combinations that are known to work, and see if any are acceptable to you. Are you willing to do a little rethinking and adjustments?

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post #3 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 07:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Absolutely I am open to suggestions.  I very much want to hear the opinion of those that know more about this than I do.  For reference I would say that my current setup is not acceptable to me.  If the room is completely dark it is still enjoyable to watch but I am after a much better experience. 

 I am open to spending a bit more on a projector but still need to keep it below 3K, really would prefer below 2K.  If the technology continues to improve I can upgrade the projector down the road, but the screen wall will likely stay constant.

 True I do not intend to use an A-lens. The curved screen was a response to needing to create a pocket behind the screen to either side of the viewing area for the tower speakers to live.  I have read that it will also help with brightness at the edges as the screen is angles more towards the source.  Plus I thought it would add to the immersive quality.  I am not sure if there is a good reason to not do the curve?  I am also willing to come down a bit on the size if that is necessary to find a good solution.

Thanks.

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post #4 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 02:04 PM
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With the right choice in a PJ as well as a DIY Screen, light uniformity across the screen, out to every corner / edge will be almost perfect.

A Curved screen's ONLY purpose these days is to correct aberrations in image proportions due to a A-Lens inaccuracies when correcting for Stretching. In the past when some PJs' light uniformity specs fell under 85%, yes,,,a curved screen could be compensation. Also, the Screen surfaces themselves could use some assistance. Nowadays, it's simply not needed. Aside from the reason given above, The only other possible reason to have a curved surface is strictly a cosmetic preference. Except in your case as you seem to feel the need for some space for the Speakers.

I can't make that decision for you, I can only state that there are more potential issues and costs involved than I feel there are benefits.

Going beyond that there is the choice of substrate. Drywall is just fine, but the finish must be virtually perfect. Your Screen size...anything beyond 140" diagonal, will require a minimum of 1.3 gain and be of a "High Contrast" nature, As such it will not suffer surface texture or blemishes of any type. If there is any doubt at all that such a "Level 5 Ultra Smooth Finish" can be accomplished, then the construction of a Frame and the use of a very smooth material such as Flexi-White should be considered as mandatory.

As for a PJ selection, I suggest the Panasonic AE8000u, a projector I personally have become a bit fixated upon, as it has a raft of great features, 2400 lumen output, 5000 hr Lamp life in Economy Mode, excellent OOTB Color, and a price as low as $2150.00 from some vendors.

Once some definitive decisions are made, then a decision as to what screen coating would be best suited to those decisions.

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post #5 of 20 Old 11-27-2013, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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I tend to do things the hard way if i think it is worth it in 'cool factor' but I will seriously take the suggestion to go to a stretched flat screen to heart. 

 

I will also look into other projectors including the Pany, my quick look at it sounds intriguing.  I am sure it is a much better projector but for more than 2x the cost it is not that significantly brighter than the Ben Q (2000 vs 2400 lumens).  Is it the better contrast that would make it a good choice for projecting on a larger screen?

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post #6 of 20 Old 11-28-2013, 08:35 AM - Thread Starter
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I think that I am about convinced to go with a flexi-white type flat screen with high gain paint.  I probably am not capable of producing a level 5 finish and I would rather put the money I would pay a good drywall finisher into a better projector.

 

I did some more research on the AE8000, that does sound like a great projector.   Plugging it into the projector central calculator with a 1.3 gain screen the fl is much higher.  I also like that this projector has memory and the ability to keep a constant height image when switching from 16:9 to 2.39.  If I understand that correctly I would build the screen at the 2.39 format, lets say 60" H x 144" L then be able to have it shift to a 16:9 format 60"H x 107"W image?  When I put those two screen sizes into the screen calculator for that projector I get vastly different throw distances so I am not sure how to plan around that type of projector.

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post #7 of 20 Old 11-29-2013, 02:40 AM
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Awww...don't worry, it's simple enough. Just plan your throw distance around the parameters given for the 2.39:1 set up.

Based on your given info, the ideal setting would be: 16' throw

However realize that you want to place the top of the screen as high as possible so that your PJ's lens can also be as lose to the top of the screen as possible. This minimizes the degree of vertical Image adjustment needed by the Lens memory.

You'll love using the Panny, if you pull the trigger on it.

And you should pull the trigger NOW...because projector people is having a sale today...Black Friday...$200.00 off AND a $550.00 mail in Rebate...Free Pair of 3D Glasses...and if you move fast, a Free Panasonic Media Streaming Box. ( 1st 100 Buyers)

(... I just scored on one for a Customer at 2 am.... cool.gif )

Edit:

I went to post this Deal on the AVS "Great Deals Found" Forum and saw that B&H Photo has a similar Promotion ....excluding the 3D Glasses and Media Player...that tops out the price after Mail-In Rebate at $1750.00 eek.gif

Looks like a better deal if one is solely looking for the PJ at lowest possible cost. However Projector people is a far more reliable place to buy as far as Returns and CS....

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post #8 of 20 Old 11-29-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Got it.  Thanks so much.  I am very excited about building around this great projector.

 

I am going to frame my walls to allow for the larger screen size but will still consider your recommendation to go a bit smaller.  I won't be building the actual screen for a while since the is much more basement finishing to do first.  I still need to get a paint recommendation though.

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post #9 of 20 Old 12-06-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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My AE800 projector arrived today but I promised to wait until Christmas to open it!  I did cut off the UPC for the rebate and took a peek.

 

Do you have any opinion on the Seymor Glacier White 1.3 gain, non AT material?  They have it available for DYI at a pretty reasonable cost and I was considering that instead of the flexiwhite plus paint.

 

I am considering a constant screen height setup with black bars at the sides when watching 16:9 content and filling the screen for 2.39 content. Looking at a 2.39 aspect screen that is 60" H x 143" W (155" dia.) and using the lens zoom memory to display 16:9 content at 60" H x 107" W (122" dia.) The projector central calculator puts the throw for that size at 16'-6" with the 2.39 at 1.95x zoom and the 16:9 at 1.46x zoom. With a 1.3 gain screen the image brightness comes out at 18 flL.  I am not sure what mode they calculator is using, probably best or normal, so if I use dynamic for 3d maybe it will be bright enough?

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post #10 of 20 Old 12-07-2013, 08:24 AM
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The Seymour GW isn't going to be any better than the Flexi-White at being a stand-alone application, and it absolutely will cost more, and be more difficult to mount. (it has virtually no stretch)

If you spend less and have the option to paint if your unhappy with your initial results, you'll be a lot happier having to do so than you will if you pay more and still feel the need to ramp up the equation.

Consider this carefully. 3D realism depends upon Contrast. It's the subtle variations between deep black and lighter shades that helps create as much depth as possible. While a White, higher gain screen will help combat the reduction in lumen output prevalent in 3D, it will do nothing to maintain or improve contrast.

On the other hand, a surface with gain that also will deepen Black levels is a best-case scenario.

Your choice here....choose wisely.

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post #11 of 20 Old 12-08-2013, 07:19 PM - Thread Starter
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MM, I am Luke and you are Yoda...we may get that ship out of the swamp yet! Sounds like spraying on the flexi-white is the best option. Could you recommend a paint mix I should use, I am guessing a version of the Silver Fire for my setup ?
Thanks!
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post #12 of 20 Old 12-09-2013, 01:13 AM
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My Midi-chlorians are screaming Silver Fire v2.5 3.0

Good lord...I just noticed I'm rapidly approaching 14K posts. eek.gif

When you reach 14,000, look as good you will not!

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post #13 of 20 Old 08-22-2014, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally ready to paint the screen. I am going to shoot the paint onto the primed wall instead of stretching a frame, my DYI dry wall finishing was pretty adequate. I am going to sand the wall and hit it with primer one more time to be sure.
I used the commercial paint gun in the picture to paint the other basement walls and found that if I held the gun a couple feet from the wall I got a fine spray and no runs. The nozzle is a Grayco Rac5 311 and if I understand the specs for that are a 6" wide fan and .011orifice. So am I alright to hold the gun farther away from the wall than 6" like I did on the other walls? Any issues with using that spray tip that you can see?
One more thing, I got the Rustolum poly matt but accidentally got a smaller can, can I mix it 1/2 and half with some of the original Polycrylic satin in the viscosity blend?
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post #14 of 20 Old 08-23-2014, 07:02 AM
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Yes...I would hold the Gun at least 14" from the wall, and more at Duster speed (3' sec.) because you can always add as many very light coats as needed to achieve coverage, but one run or sag and your effectively screwed. The DIY paint will be much thinner than the Wall paint. Also best...get something to test / practice on. A sheet of Drywall is cheap, and well worth saving the project with.

Lastly, put a bright work light off to the side of the screen (...and about 4-5' in front...) and then inspect the wall from several angles. If there are any defects hiding in the inital primer coat, you'll see them and you can do a spot repair before your next Primer coat.

Let yourself go......use your feelings Luke.

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post #15 of 20 Old 08-31-2014, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I did as suggested and did indeed need to go over with a wider knife. I have re-primed and believe the wall is smooth now, however there are subtle differences where the primer is very thin and smooth and other areas that were sprayed on and have a bit of an orange peal texture giving it a different sheen. I have sanded with 200 grit but there is still visually a difference, I can't seem to sand enough to complete have the same sheen everywhere. Does this need further remedy or will the silver fire coats build up enough to even things out?
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-01-2014, 07:36 AM
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No....when you have Orange Peel and you sand it, the tops of the texture get flattened and look darker, but the surface is indeed smooth to the touch.

This assumes that you did sand enough....using a correct Grit. I always suggest the use of a Fine Grit Large Sanding Sponge, as it seems the correct Grit, although it is listed as 100 Grit.

I find that this Grit sponge, used with a light touch, removes just enough material without scratching the surface...and when you sand the entire surface, the texture is equalized enough that after a couple two or three new coats of primer, everything evens out.

Now of course is the time you lay down your new coats of SF correctly, and avoid that Orange Peel business.

Last note: many time people over sand a repair, and if they do use a ultra fine Grit sanding paper, the wind up with a "too smooth" area. Almost slippery feeling. If this is how you would describe your situation it might happen that your first 3 coats or so of SF will look different, but after the 5th coat, if the proper technique is used it should be ok.

However.....if you have very smooth areas of sanded Mud, and the rest of the wall still has what you would say is a discernible texture you can feel, then I strongly suggest you give the wall another sanding using the prescribed Large Sanding Sponge ( @home Depot in Drywall Supply section )

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post #17 of 20 Old 09-01-2014, 07:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, I think that describes it perfectly. I did pick up one of those sponges yesterday and will hit the wall again.
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-01-2014, 08:13 AM
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To be absolutely safe, you should skim coat the entire wall with a very thin coat of Mud and then sand it all.

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post #19 of 20 Old 09-11-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I did end up skim coating and very glad I did. I decided the commercial sprayer was not going to work since it loads up so much paint before it actually starts to output, it is better for 5 gallon jobs. So the HPLV sprayer I have is not Grayco recommended brand and did better with a diluted primer to avoid sputtering. I mixed up the silver fire with the maximum water in the instructions and I am concerned that it may be a little heavy still, can I further dilute with more water or a flow aid?
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post #20 of 20 Old 09-12-2014, 03:47 AM
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Water Only......slowly adjust until it has the consistency of thin Tomato soup, runs through a Nylon sock filter without pooling up, and flows steadily and evenly through the gun.

Once there, use the Duster method and move at the desired speed and distance. Very thin paint will run easily so that is why you apply it as a dusting of droplets that gradually build up.

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