Help! DIY 120" SilveFire v2.5 3.0 Screen - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 06-18-2014, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Help! DIY 120" SilveFire v2.5 3.0 Screen

I'll just start off by stating this is my first build!

I just purchased a HD25e and plan to use it in a room with some ambient light. After reading through many posts (especially by MM), I believe that the best approach would be to use a DIY screen with FlexiWhite and painted with SilverFire v2.5 3.0.

I already purchased the screen (actually Carl's BOC, but I am choosing to return that based on a previous post of painting BOC vs. FlexiWhite), Triple Plush Black Velvet through SY and all the materials to paint the screen.

Even after reading all these posts, I am still a little puzzled on how to properly spray the SF to the screen (i.e how many coats, when to do it as part of building the screen, etc). I know this probably depends on what type of frame I choose, which leads me to my next question.

I really like the Zero Edge look (and as thin as possible) and would like to try and recreate it as much as possible. I found the awesome screen MM posted here, but not sure if it would really apply to the FlexiWhite material I already purchased:

LED Edge Lit Zero Edge Comeuppance - 110" diagonal Silver Fire 3.0

I would like this screen to be portable, so affixing 2x4's to the wall is not ideal. Instead I would like to have the frame removable and hung with something like the Hangman picture hangers. I don't mind having a thin bezel (something like the 10mm borders the Zero Edge products use). I was thinking of perhaps building a frame similar to what is shown on Carl's website:

http://www.carlofet.com/build-your-o...jector-screen/

If I did such a build with say 1x4 poplar, what type of trim would I use? Should I still wrap the trim with the Black Velvet to help with the contrast, or is that pointless with this thin of a Bezel? Or is their a way to get no Bezel similar to MM's post above using a frame that doesn't need to be affixed to the wall? I am also concerned with getting clean edges while wrapping the FlexiWhite around the 90 deg corners (i.e. how do I avoid overlapping and bubbling the screen around the corners)?

I am open to any and all suggestions from the pros who have done this before. I want to do it right on my first attempt. Any guides or diagrams that could be posted with a similar build would be greatly appreciated.
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post #2 of 11 Old 06-19-2014, 02:31 AM
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Hi,

Building such a screen while also employing a LED Back lighting requires adding / adapting some construction materials and techniques to those you referenced on Carl's site.

To effect a true Zero Edge look with a Fabric wrapped screen is even more involved, but neither overly difficult or excessively more expensive. But it still requires more effort.

The Frame will have to be built in two layers of 1 x 4 and 1 x 2, and you should use Clear Poplar for the main Frame. The illustration below shows a 1 x 4 primary Frame. However for the required degree of stand-off from the wall needed to accommodate Back Lighting, you still must use 1 x 2 on the rear.

Another potential issue addressed below is the needed stand-off from the face of the frame where the Material is stretched across. Again, a 1 x 2 is used



Perhap.s the trickiest part will be the stapling to a 3/4" face on the sides.

I need to give this build a bit more thought before committing to set of specific instructions, but hopefully what is already presented and illustrated will help spark your own creativity and motivation.

If you decide on a specific build, then we'll discuss what to do to paint upon it.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 06-19-2014 at 02:33 AM.
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post #3 of 11 Old 06-21-2014, 12:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback MississippiMan.

For the Zero Edge screen, do I need to use the LED strip lighting? Could I just build the frame from 1 x 4 poplar to have a very thin screen (0.75")? I presume I would staple to the back of the frame so that the sides would have a more "finished" look with this approach. Given this, would you suggest no bezel or would you use some sort of thin trim on the sides wrapped in the black velvet material from SY?

Also, nowadays what are your thoughts on HVLP sprayers? I cannot find either of the two sprayers you suggest on the SF v2.5 thread. What about these ones?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Pa...9017/204218851
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0518080...ds=wagner+hvlp

I tried to source the HV2900, but cannot find it anywhere (even online). I also own a compressor, are their any good conversion kits out there?
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post #4 of 11 Old 06-21-2014, 07:17 AM
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Did you check your local Lowes stores? A search by me found just 1 available out of 5 local stores.

The 2900 has been replaced by this newer version, the 2901

http://www.lowes.com/pd_570350-97-HV...7C1&facetInfo=

If I had to used a Wagner (...and I have, in fact I have several versions...) I would use this combination off Amazon.

http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0518080...=vglnk-c333-20
http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-Detail-...FYPFHA3G0EN7MK

....or this new combo:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Wagner-Pa...9003/203474760

You need the "Fine Finish" Spray Head to get a smooth finish, as the 2.0 mm Head that comes with a stock Wagner produces a bit to heavy a spray when using the thinned paints we recommend.

Myself, I use the Wagner Control Spray Max Turbine unit listed above, with a adaptation to the hose that allows me to use the Graco Spray head and a 1.0 mm Tip. However I am a power user, and I paint some awfully large screens quite often so I like having power the power and the longer adapted hose (35' !)

There is no doubt that the Wagner Turbine is the superior power unit, and it's adjustable flow pressure serves one in good stead.

Forget using a Compressor run HVLP. Way too much expense, and water / rust intrusion concerns.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #5 of 11 Old 07-06-2014, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, so I've purchased the Wagner CS Max and the smaller tip, how many coats do I need to put down? Do I keep the small tip on for each coat? Any special techniques that should be used with the CS Max (i.e. overlap pattern, pressure, etc)?

I also just realized that when I was doing this late last night, I added ALL the colorant components instead of just 3.0 ounces!!! Argh... I presume all that I can do is re-order the Rust-Oleum Silver + White Pearl mixes and start again. Is their anything else I can do? If I up the mix 45% and use all the Silver + Pearl, I still have over 2 ounces of extra colorant in my mix (keeping with the original 3.0 mix). Guess I'll just start again and do it right.

Actually, I could go to a 5.0 mix with a 33% increase in base + viscosity to match the 6.7 ounces of colorant I already added (6.66 ounces of color would be required and only 0.04 ounces off). Is this close enough? I do have very large windows near my screen with an HD25e, would the 5.0 be too much?

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post #6 of 11 Old 07-06-2014, 12:47 PM
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I don't see anything referencing the size screen or the proposed Throw distance.

Quote:
Okay, so I've purchased the Wagner CS Max and the smaller tip, how many coats do I need to put down? Do I keep the small tip on for each coat? Any special techniques that should be used with the CS Max (i.e. overlap pattern, pressure, etc)?
You use the Duster-Coat method. A quick traverse across the screen (3' sec.), with 70% overlap. The edges must have at least 4" run-out for you to go past the edge of the screen and drop 30 then reverse and go back the other direction. If you have an abrupt drop-off at the edges, you will not be able to lay down an even amount of paint because of turbulence (vortex-action) along the drop-off.
I use Cardboard edges or Plastic sheeting stapled or taped to the outside edges.

Minimum of 6 coats. Each coat dries in / around 30 minutes....less if you use a Large 18" to 20" Stand-Fan from 6'-7' off the center of the screen, and centered right to left. (...make sure the Fan is clean...) Then you can re-spray every 20 minutes.

I can't yet advise you on a corrective strategy for the Mix until I know the answer to the first two questions. above.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #7 of 11 Old 07-06-2014, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
I don't see anything referencing the size screen or the proposed Throw distance.

I can't yet advise you on a corrective strategy for the Mix until I know the answer to the first two questions. above.
Hi MississippiMan, thanks for the info. I have the screen size at 114" with a throw distance of ~13'. The room has a VERY large (15' long by 9' high) window immediately to the left of the screen (with blackout curtains) and a small window to the right of the projector (~12' back) with just normal blinds. Still a lot of light comes in through the kitchen about 30' back from this. I don't plan on using it for 3D at all, so just want to make sure I am not losing too much brightness on the 5.0 mix.

Thanks!
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post #8 of 11 Old 07-24-2014, 07:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi MississippiMan,

So I recreated the 3.0 mix using 3.0 ounces of the colorants this time. I sprayed with the Wagner CS Max at about 3' per second with the sprayer at about half power. I tried to stay about 6 to 8" off the entire time. I also did about 10 duster coats and used the smaller tip.

I can definitely see why SF mix is so good as I get deep contrast now and can easily watch it with my blinds open; however, I do see a LARGE difference in the graininess of the screen compared to the standard FlexiWhite screen (even from far away, especially in the whites). I am sure that I did not spray correctly. I used about 37 - 38 ounces of water in the mix to get the flow through the nylon strainer as you show in your video. To me it looked identical to the flow you showed, however it is very grainy as I show in the photo (see the comparison to my textured walls)

What do you think I did wrong here? Or is this expected ( I wouldn't think so)? How would I fix this?

Thanks!
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-24-2014, 10:18 PM
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I see a bit of excessive laydown of paint. The distance between the gun and surface should be 12" to 14"...... not 6" to 8"

Spraying so close in negates much of the advantage of moving quickly. A Duster is a combination of speed and distance. One paramount reason you overlap each row by 70% is that at 12"+ and 3' per sec. you laying down a very fine mist.

Your image almost shows what we call orange peel. Not quite mind you....but enough texture that the tiny differences in the high & low points stand out as "grain"

A fix is relatively simple....if you have enough paint for at least 2-3 more correctly applied Dusters.

First using a Fine Grit Large sanding sponge, you gently but firmly "sweep sand" the surface using firm, sweeping strokes....about 304 over a area...the moving a bit to the side, you repeat, overlapping the previous row by 1/4 to 1/3 it's width. You not trying to remove a lot of paint, rather flatten out the texture. As you go, you will see the high points darken when sanded. That's a good thing as you can plainly see the troublesome texture. As you sand, and when your finished with a complete pass, you can run you fingertips over the surface and feel the texture...or lack thereof.

Bear in mind that any texture you erase will make an improvement, but getting the surface really smooth will provide excellent results.

Ok..It's now smooth. Do the Dusting as prescribed.

Remember...there is a difference between Texture and Graininess. The Former is a bumpy lumpy surface that shows as being full off shadows and high points as a image passes over it, or when a bright mono colored scene is static. The Latter is an actual fine, grain-like look where you can see the difference between the lightest and darkest part og the surface.....even when smooth as the proverbial Baby's Butt.

Many high gain - high contrast gray paints exhibit that trait. It's hard to have highly reflective elements in a dark base without your seeing the differences between them.

Silver Fire effectively masks that tendency, and distributes the reflective gain more evenly into the translucent Gray base. But some people with 20/5 vision (...all you Lasic Mutants...) can spot the tiniest specks imaginable from 12' away. When that happens, the solution is to add an additional 8 oz of UP to the Mix, or a proportionate amount if using a leftover quantity. The extra UPW does not really lighten the mix as much as add additional masking onto the Pear; and Silver Metallic particles.

There you have it. The things I myself do when required (...seldom, but it does happen when I get hasty and applu too much paint too fast or too soon after the last coat...)
Another thing that can lead to the observed texture is a too slow drying time, and applying the next coat too soon after the last...before it is reasonably dry. The last coat should NEVER feel cool to the touch. And a proper Duster, when aided by a breeze from a clean fan, can be dry and ready to paint in 20 minutes.

Fini

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post #10 of 11 Old 07-24-2014, 11:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent, let me give that a try. You do make it seem so easy, when in fact it is quite an art. I truly appreciate that now.
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post #11 of 11 Old 07-25-2014, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually, one quick question. How high of pressure should I use on the gun? The dial isn't very precise in my opinion, but a general idea would help.
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