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post #1 of 44 Old 07-02-2014, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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black widow and smart eco

Hello, I want to try DIY black widow paint mix instead of classic matte white standard screens.
I have one question, I can't find it anywhere:

It will be image bright enough if I use it with Benq W1070 (2000 lumens) on smart eco or eco in quite blackouted room with some light leaks? I Dont want to use lamp at full power...
throw distance will be about 3,5 meters and screen size 135".

Or some standard Elite Screen with matte white surface will be better choice for these conditions?
What do you think?

Thank you

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post #2 of 44 Old 07-02-2014, 01:29 PM
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BW is only 0.9 gain at best in it's lightest version, and gets darker if it is "grayed up" by adding any additional Neutral Gray tint.

The use of Aluminum restricts the amount of gain potential because if enough Aluminum is added to make a difference, a distinct graininess develops. This was always an issue with the older variety of AAA, and it's no different now. The only difference being that if you add a disproportionate amount of additional White, and / or a Gray tint, your simply attenuating the Aluminum's effect via "masking"...which in effect renders the use of Aluminum moot.

BW doesn't get any press here because it essentially is nothing more than a alternative to the use of other more effective solutions whose use is discounted and disavowed by those who would refuse to embrace the components such applications are made of. To do so would be admitting that such applications were in fact valid from day one....and that's not going to happen.

As it is, several options offered elsewhere are simply clones of prior DIY apps found here under different names. In fact, excepting BW, the use of Mica Based reflective components had to be considered just for those clones to even come into play.

While it does seem a bit odd that you posted on here a desire to use BW, on a Forum where it just doesn't get discussed, I'll not belabor that point. let's consider instead your alternatives available here....and elsewhere. Both DIY and Mfg.

1st off, if you were considering a 1.0 - 1.2 gain Matte White Mfg Screen for whatever advantage it would offer, then considering BW makes no sense.

The W1070 does not sport the best Contrast / Black levels...certainly not in the order of true Home Theater PJs. It is rightly considered a "Home Video" PJ, suggesting it's use is best suited for brighter imagery. What you really need is a light Flat Gray, smooth surface that has at least 1.2 gain. There are only a very select few DIY applications that can offer that. And all of them involve using a Mica based Mix that contains Silver Metallic, Matte Polyurethane and a Bright White Latex paint.

If your room is a dedicated, mostly blacked out Theater with just a few small light leaks, the Gray aspect a Silver Metallic mix provides is / would be there to enhance Black levels and Color saturation. It also works in conjunction with the Translucent Polyurethane and White Paint to provide a initial reflective surface. When such a very light Gray reflective Paint mix is applied over a Bright White substrate, you get the benefits of a Gray surface that also provides a Gain factor over 1.0

The most simplest DIY paint solution available that completely fits that description is RS-MaxxMudd LL. If a solid substrate or a wall is used, you can even roll it on.....with care.

You mentioned your having (wanting) a 135" diagonal screen @ 3.5 meters Throw (12.5')
In truth, you should have no issue using even a very basic N8.5 tinted Paint on top of a Bright White substrate because at that throw distance, even on Low lamp the W1070 will give you approx 15 fl. It would not be "special", but to many...if not most, it would look just fine.

The issues you'd have with only using a Matte White would be both a total lack of any assistance in rendering better Black levels, as well as any ambient or reflected light that did manage to hit the screen would have a "worst case" effect. But then again, if you don't see any real degradation in image quality yourself, those issues cease to be issues.

A "No Paint" DIY - Mfg Screen solution for that size would be Flexi-White or Flexi-Gray material from this source.

White
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...-material.html

Gray
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...-material.html

Order by Phone and request it ship in a "Roll"...not folded.

You will of course have to build a suitable Frame, but at 135" diagonal, you won't find any wholly Mfg alternative for 4x the price of a DIY Gray HC screen

You could try the Flexi-White with the BenQ on low lamp to see how it works, and if you still felt the need for additional contrast boosting, apply RS-MM LL via a sprayer

So you have several options, and of course you still opt for BW because you do have enough Lumen output. But as mentioned earlier, if you do go that route, lighten it up with added White, don't go darker with Gray Tint.
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post #3 of 44 Old 07-03-2014, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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First thank you for reply.

I understand it seems like it make no sense, but Im newbie, this will be my first projector and only thing which I want to have is best possible result.
I wanted BW because I thought its ultimate choice for any conditions, beat any other screens at all.

Actually i don't want any painting wall in case if is another solution available.
(As I told, I thought BW is ultimate in all ways, so painting will be necessary)

Second reason is fact, In my country is pretty hard to find any grey/silver screen, I think in my dimension even unavailable, at least for budget price.
So you can understand my question simply: Matt White vs Grey for my conditions which I wrote. (Not 100% blackout, eco mode, bright walls, W1070, throw from 3,5m to 135" screen)

What about that elite screens?
Especially model M135UWH2. It is MaxWhite, but I found on elite screens page sheet:
http://www.elitescreens.com/images/p...ialsheet_w.pdf
It looks slightly silver, Cannot seems like total white, What do you think? Cannot it be something between white and grey?

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post #4 of 44 Old 07-03-2014, 01:50 PM
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Well...what country do you reside in?

I can assure you that if you think that Elite's screen material is "affordable", there are other even more affordable choices that will in fact be even better.

For instance, one of the links I supplied above to a US company that ships anywhere on the Planet:
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...-material.html

Did you even go to that site to look..?..the link above is in fact for a light Gray screen material.

It's a "No Paint" solution that would be just as effective for you as BW under your given circumstances.


BTW, the Elite material you linked to is White....not "Gray" at all. Your probably just seeing a off-color image from your Monitor or the photo itself.
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post #5 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 03:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I live in Slovakia.

Now about color distortion by monitor. I have IPS panel with calibrated colors, I think I see colors properly. But that elite screens seems to be quite grey, maybe that looks each white screens.... I dont know.

I start really concider that Carl's flexigrey or other fabric screen material from that site. Looks pretty well.
But now I quite affraid about grey, eco (W1070 have about 1000 lumens in that mode) and my throw distance. Wont it negative affect color brightness and saturation? It wont be carls flexigrey too dark?
Im not very sensitive to black levels I think, most important for me is overall picture quality and nice vibrant colors.
(If is black level only reason to go for grey screen, then it wont be right choice for me I think...)

...But in fact I dont have finished my room's blackout yet, when it will be done, I share the result, if it is 100% blackout or not (but it doesn't be less than 90% darkness, as I told only some small leaks, not big!). However walls and ceiling must stay bright. I dont want to paint them black or other dark color.

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post #6 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 04:58 AM
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Finding a balance between Brightness and contrast is important. The darker / deeper the blacks are without your whites / colors being affected, the more dynamic the image appears.

Of course for those without the experience to know the difference, this can be very subjective. Also, while a Gray surface can and will give the appearance of deeper black levels, this is a "off the screen" effect, not any actual change in the PJs performance.

In your situation, the Flexi-White will absolutely satisfy your desire for brightness, however color saturation is dependent upon Contrast to a great degree. The depth (richness) of color can be judged by the graduating range of shadow which relates to perspective...the appearance of an increase of the depth of field.

A Bright image can look "bright", yet look decidedly "Flat". A projector with 500,000:1 Contrast has a huge range of difference between the Darkest and Lightest element within an image, so any "Color" will have a wider gradient between the area "closest" to the viewer, and any part that recedes deeper within the image. A Projector with 15,000:1 Contrast, not nearly as much.

(...in retrospect however, compared to older PJs that spotted 1500:1 Contrast, 15,000:1 ain't so bad....)

Consider a human face....the nose and cheeks being forward of the ears. You would expect (hope)that you could see depth by noting that there is a gradual deepening of shadow as the facial surface curves away from the front. the deepening shadows give the appearance of depth...a 3D like effect.

All this relates to how a surface will either assist or retract from a PJ's ability to deliver a dynamic image. You want to use Economy mode, but at the same time use a 135" screen. The two are not being conducive to achieving an effective balance between lumen output and foot lambert of reflection. Now while reducing lumen output and foot lambert can give the appearance of darker blacks, every other aspect of the image is also darkened. That equates to a loss of dynamic imagery.

Using a white surface with 1.2 gain (Flexi-White) would assuredly let you use Economy mode with negligible effect on dynamics, however there will be no ability to increase the appearance of color saturation or contrast. Whatever the W1070 is capable of delivering will be all you can see. And that might just be enough...or more than enough for you.

The room however now comes into the equation. With a big screen, and knowing the size of most Flats (apartments) in Eastern Europe, if the edges of the screen are close to a adjoining wall and/or ceiling, the amount of light reflecting off those surfaces (...from the projected image...) will affect the Contrast on-screen, washing out colors and black levels to some degree. If you had Contrast to spare, this effect might be too little to notice. You do not have such however.

So back we go to a Grayer surface. A light Gray such as the Flexi-Gray, when hit with higher lumen output, first attenuates those Lumen s, and in doing so deepens Black levels. The primary advantage being that comparatively, you do not see a similar reduction in Color dynamics because Gray has the effect of also deepening color satiation. Therein lies the reclamation of your advantage... in normal lamp mode and with a Gray screen, reflected light coming back and hitting the screen surface meets with a higher degree of resistance. Both the Black levels and Colors have further to go to be reduced to a point that visual quality is grossly affected.

All the above pertains to one using a No-paint, Screen material only application. The Screen coatings we have developed on this Forum focus on achieving more gain...or maintaining gain, while also deepening Black Levels without a corresponding loss of Whites / Colors. To that effect, most acquire a White substrate, either a solid material or a surface like the Flexi-White, and apply a special paint to it.

Which brings us back full circle.

BW is a sub-1.0 gain paint. You can achieve that level of performance by simply using a Gray material such as the Flexi-Gray.

Or you could use Flexi-White as a substrate and paint one of several varieties of coatings, a few of which would be ideally suited for your screen size and desired lumen output (econo). Those choices would provide varying levels (shades) of Gray, but augment the Gray with additional gain-enhancing components. Some are simpler that others who are more complex....all require spraying. But the end results are always commensurate to the effort and expense extended.

Lastly, you can go with Flexi-White alone, and run the PJ on Eco, examine your results, and still upgrade to a Coating if you find the situation less to your liking.

On this Forum, many such as I don't aspire to giving "...just get by..." advice. That is why some must suffer long replies such as this one.

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post #7 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, that was very interesting, but sadly I must say I still dont know, for what to go.
Maybe less than before this post

I now understand the pros and cons of grey and white screens but it still doesnt solve my problem.
from what you told, deeper, richness colors, better depth of field provides grey screen better instead of white BUT at high lumen output.
So simply your own opinion: Is 1000 lumens of eco mode from 3,5meters enough? Or smart eco's variable lumens? For sufficient brightness? (like in cinema, I actually dont need overlighted whole room) But I really dont want to use lamp at full power, so please consider this. (In reality I will project at smart eco, I asked on eco, for sure and reserve)

Or will be better go for white one, where eco mode provides similar effect as grey screen with higher output?

If will be better white one for my conditions, I'll definitely go for elite screens, because is easier to get in Slovakia, but If is worse for me Ill go for Carls flexi-grey.

So Im reducing question:
Elite screens MaxWhite vs Carls flexi grey for my conditions.



Edit: I really want that grey screen, better contrast and beautiful colors is more important than high brightness. One question remains: Will smart eco's output of w1070 and 3,5m throw distance provide not too dark image? Room will be blackouted, how much, I still dont know, becase it is still in progress (I expect 100-90% but I will post the result when I finished that)

edit2: but as you said, that also provides white screen when I project at economy mode. Im totally confused
One bad thing if I get you properly, is fact, white screen wont "boost" contrast and color quality. However like you posted, even without that boost, it might be still enough for me.

edit3: I forgot, I plan to use active 3D as well, so this is important condition too.

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post #8 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 11:13 AM
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When Active 3D is employed the PJ will automatically shift to Normal lamp

If your PJ will deliver a full 1000 lumen output in Smart Eco, then you will be very happy using the Flexi-Gray. And when you switch on 3D, the jump into Normal lamp mode will compensate nicely.

The only quandary being that if you choose white, you can still of course use Eco Mode for 2D, and 3D will look even brighter....but you simply will have no chance of realizing the advantages of a Gray screen surface on any point.

You were going to consider painting with BW...why not instead consider using a Paint that will deliver both Gain and High Contrast / Color enhancement?

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post #9 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
If your PJ will deliver a full 1000 lumen output in Smart Eco, then you will be very happy using the Flexi-Gray
It delivers not only on smart eco but in eco too!
according to this:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...r-performance/
and this:
http://www.projectorreviews.com/benq...performance-2/

around 1100 with eco and 1150 with smart eco.
without zoom in full power 1843 and with zoom in 1629.

only think, I affraid now its my throw distance. I must use full zoom which affect output lumens, or increase throw distance which affect overall brightness too (I think doesnt matter if zoom or larger distance -or is this not true?).


Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
You were going to consider painting with BW...why not instead consider using a Paint that will deliver both Gain and High Contrast / Color enhancement?
Yeah, I considered BW becase I thought its ultimate universal paint better than any screen or wall or paint. That was serious reason Actually painting is last opinion for me, I rather avoid that.
And we are talking about walls. Not brand new screen! I really dont want to go that way, for this moment definitely. I have worries and I think clean screen will be enough for the beginning. Maybe time will tell. maybe not.


by the way: what is gain of flexi-grey? I couldnt find that anywhere.

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post #10 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Update:
I just find in another reviews:


1st:
Quote:
Optically, the W1070 is a stunner, featuring one of the sharpest images I have seen on any projector, let alone an entry level model. Light output is also great for the unit's size - offering about 1200 lumens in Cinema mode out of the box and just under 900 lumens once put into Smart Eco mode.

2nd:
Quote:
Cinema mode, at its defaults, isn't much different; our test unit measures 1220 lumens in this mode at an average 6800K color temperature. If this is too much light (and it may well be once you dim the room lighting), Eco mode reduces light output by nearly 30%, resulting in 880 lumens in Cinema mode.


So I dont know what I think about it. One review says about 1100 and another under 900.


Next I found this table:



Quote:
From a Dalite 106'', gain 1 (at least in theory..), distance ~10 feet. Sensor: ColorMunki.

I dont understand that table, maybe it helps to you.
My question remains. Is here still enough lumens for gray surface with smart eco?

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post #11 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 04:00 PM
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Yes.

Stop over thinking it. If you focus only on what you read, you'll read many varying comments and measurements.

Best thing to do is take the highest and lowest measurements you find and add them together then divide x 2.

That will be a reasonable measurement to go by.

Any PJ that puts out 900+ lumen in Eco-Cinema Mode is pumping out light.

It is exactly that light output that retards the PJ's ability to have better contrast. The Flexi-Gray will help equalize the scales.
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post #12 of 44 Old 07-04-2014, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks a lot for your time, all informations were very useful and this last convinced me to go for flexi-grey one
Hope it will works great.

But I must ask even one question. Last one I promise
Will 3D works well? Cannot occur issues with losing sync with glasses or something else? When I will use different screen as white?


edit: and what about felt tape? is it good to go for it? Or black sprayed wood border do the job right?

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post #13 of 44 Old 07-05-2014, 05:47 AM
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No worries about you losing sync.

When trimming a Screen your size you want to use 3"Tape over 2-3/4" wide Trim

Black Felt Tape is Good.
http://www.carlofet.com/projector-sc...cessories.html

Black Velvet Tape is Best.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Black-Velv...-/120652824615
(...when shipping is included this is the best deal...)

A Painted Black border is the worst.

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post #14 of 44 Old 07-05-2014, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
When trimming a Screen your size you want to use 3"Tape over 2-3/4" wide Trim
And how about tape glued at screen material next to black sprayed trim borders. Like that:





I dont think how strongly hold that carl's tape on pure wood trims. And it looks better. If it not affect performance, I will rather do that like on pics.
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post #15 of 44 Old 07-05-2014, 05:54 PM
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The painted Black Outside edge with inset Taped edge looks pretty good....

.........except the drawing as shown is terribly misleading.

Among the most worrisome aspects to consider is the need to Staple the material, and if that is done on the forward side of the 1x4, directly under the To-be-Taped area, there is a very good chance the Staples will show through as "bumps".

It takes a great many staples to affix the stretched material to the Frame....probably in excess of 200 for a 135" diagonal screen.

The "correct" method in stretching the material involves wrapping the outside edge over the outside leading edge of the Frame, using that edge as a strain-relief, and stapling the material to the outside edge.

You then use a Hammer to tap the staples as flush as possible into the outside edge, then cover the Screen material and staples with the Corner Trim.

Thusly:


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post #16 of 44 Old 07-05-2014, 06:18 PM - Thread Starter
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your image doesnt work. can you reupload it? or post some video to see that method?
I think I dont fully get it.

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post #17 of 44 Old 07-06-2014, 06:55 AM
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Click on this

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...1&d=1404651277


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post #18 of 44 Old 07-06-2014, 08:04 AM - Thread Starter
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yeah, Thats like I wanted to make that.
stapling at front looks like not a very good idea...

but how about stretching? Actually this is thing, which I have most worries about.

Could I use this method?
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post #19 of 44 Old 07-06-2014, 12:31 PM
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That is the correct sequence

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post #20 of 44 Old 07-07-2014, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
That is the correct sequence
I asked today for Carl's Place via mail and got the answer:



Quote:
Given your projector, viewing environment and Active 3D viewing capabilities, I would definitely recommend our FlexiWhite material!


by the way my room's blackout is finished, result is almost dark. maybe around 90-95%. Only one or two light leaks, but pretty low, I can see nothing.

Still think flexigrey will be best?

Really sorry for my indecision, but please understand me, I would like to get the best what I can.

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post #21 of 44 Old 07-07-2014, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desann View Post
I asked today for Carl's Place via mail and got the answer:

by the way my room's blackout is finished, result is almost dark. maybe around 90-95%. Only one or two light leaks, but pretty low, I can see nothing.


Still think flexigrey will be best?

Really sorry for my indecision, but please understand me, I would like to get the best what I can.
I know.

Let me break it down again.....briefly.

  • Your PJ has enough brightness in Eco Smart Mode to drive the Flexi-Gray under Dark Room conditions
  • Your PJ will default to Normal Lamp Mode in 3D and therein have enough lumen to drive the Flexi-Gray Screen
  • Flexi-White could easily handle any Low Lamp Mode, but will do nothing to enhance Black Levels or Colors.
  • You could manually switch to Eco Mode in 3D using Flexi-White, but no one ever does that with 3D

So the decision to make is :
  1. Do you play it safe and use Flexi-White and therefore forgo any Contrast Enhancement possibility?
  2. Do you go for Flexi-Gray and accept that during 3D content, using Normal lamp Mode is a prerequisite?
.
I gave you my suggestion.....Carls Place gave you their assured, safe suggestion. Either will work. At 135" diagonal there is just cause to haul up safe and use a higher gain White. Granted, I am used to using Gray surfaces that have a positive gain factor equal or surpassing that of Flexi-White's own 1.2 gain rating. But I crunched the numbers based on 1.0 & 1.2 Gain.

So my last advice is go for the Flexi-White...and if you find it wanting for desired contrast...we can discuss painting directly onto the surface with a really high performance Silver/Pearlescencent coating with equal gain.
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post #22 of 44 Old 07-10-2014, 03:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I ordered yesterday flexigray 144" and I found a big problem.
Height is not enough to stapling on backside.

Stapling on frontside isn't good idea, right? I think there may occur problems with holding tension over time because tension is not supported by edges on frame.


So only solution remain decrease the size of screen?
Do some compromises like use only 3" velvet border without trims? (But without trims Im not sure if it looks decent)


Height of screen material is the same as outside height of frame.
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post #23 of 44 Old 07-10-2014, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by desann View Post
I ordered yesterday flexigray 144" and I found a big problem.
Height is not enough to stapling on backside.

Stapling on frontside isn't good idea, right? I think there may occur problems with holding tension over time because tension is not supported by edges on frame.


So only solution remain decrease the size of screen?
Do some compromises like use only 3" velvet border without trims? (But without trims Im not sure if it looks decent)


Height of screen material is the same as outside height of frame.
You don't seem to get the idea behind the "Flexi"....

It is a very stretchable material, and will easily stretch enough to wrap around the sides of your frame.

Simply wrap the first edge 2" past the first corner and onto the back and staple, then stretch the Fabric and do the opposite side the exact same amount. Repeat throughout your wrapping / stapling pattern.

The whole idea behind the ability to stretch the material is that you'll wind up with a nice, taunt screen surface with no wrinkles.

BTW, 99.999% of all DIY Screens do not have a exterior border of wood trim past the Velvet Border.

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post #24 of 44 Old 07-10-2014, 06:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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You don't seem to get the idea behind the "Flexi"....
It is a very stretchable material, and will easily stretch enough to wrap around the sides of your frame.
Could you express that stretchability in percentage? At least estimate.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
BTW, 99.999% of all DIY Screens do not have a exterior border of wood trim past the Velvet Border.
So border is mostly only tape sticked to pure cloth? Do you think it will look fine?

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post #25 of 44 Old 07-10-2014, 10:32 AM
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999 99% of DIY screens use Black Velvet or Black Felt wrapped wood or MDF Base trim...not just tape. It is more of an convenience item...it is not, by my line of reasoning a preferred way to make a border for screen. But some people do use it and actually like it so.....

As for giving you a specific percentage of stretch, I do not have that information. However I did give you a specific set of instructions that I know will work because I've used the material before and have stretched it that much if not a bit more.

The only thing to be careful of is stretching it evenly in all directions.

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post #26 of 44 Old 07-10-2014, 10:33 AM - Thread Starter
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these trims or other similar are unavailable in my country, so I have to stick that tape directly on screen material.
I hope it will doesnt look so bad.

I can only use 1" trim on sides around the frame to cover cloth and staples.
See the picture if you dont know what I mean
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post #27 of 44 Old 08-06-2014, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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I already received folded 144" carl's flexigray material. I put it on floor and measured 179 cm height.
I tried strechability with one more person by hands and I stretch it to about 180-182 cm. It looks like not a lot :/ .
I had to decrease screen size to 130" diagonal, but I still dont have extra height to staple screen material on back side of wood frame.

130" diagonal = 162 cm height + 2x 7,5 cm velvet border = 177 cm (-external height of full frame)

So I got only 1 cm material extra on each side. I dont think if stapling on backside will be possible. It seems to be quite risk. To staple on back I need more than 3cm extra for each side, because wood is 2,5cm thick.
Therefore I would like to ask, what do you think about stapling on that 2,5cm side of wood. Doesnt it be too hard to do? Or maybe impossible? Do you have some experiences with stapling on side?




and one more question. I have on material a lot of strong creases, I will have to use much force to smooth it. Is that correct process? I do not have to worry about rip fabric in staples or somewhere else?

Thank you
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post #28 of 44 Old 08-06-2014, 08:54 AM
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I place my staples on the outside edges of the woods, not the back of the wood.
You should be able to stretch the material at least 3 inches additional on each outside edge, for a combined total of 6 inches stretch.

If you have creases, then the material did not come on a roll, it came folded. We try hard advise to everybody to ask for it to come on a roll for the slight additional up charge.

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post #29 of 44 Old 08-06-2014, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
I place my staples on the outside edges of the woods, not the back of the wood.
You should be able to stretch the material at least 3 inches additional on each outside edge, for a combined total of 6 inches stretch.

If you have creases, then the material did not come on a roll, it came folded. We try hard advise to everybody to ask for it to come on a roll for the slight additional up charge.
like on this picture?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/attach...p;d=1407337225

I ask Carl's for roll, but shipment cost around 200$ to slovakia, it was pretty much, in my case cost 60$ thats expensive too, but still acceptable whereas In slovakia is gray screen almost impossible to get.


edit: OK are you sure I can get 3" extra on each side only by scretching?? Even in 144" material? I quite afraid about rip in staples or some deformation. Extra 6" total needs much power to stretch.
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post #30 of 44 Old 08-06-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Simply wrap the first edge 2" past the first corner and onto the back and staple, then stretch the Fabric and do the opposite side the exact same amount.
do I understand this sequence correctly?
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