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post #1 of 19 Old 08-06-2014, 01:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Quick questions

Hello, I have been sifting around on these forums for the past couple weeks. I've been stuck on rolling my screen, but recently I have conceded; I guess I'll buy the Wagner 0417005 HVLP Spray gun (50$ from walmart). I'm looking to spend around 40-50$ on paint. I was hoping to do the maxmudd or silverfire screen but realistically I'm not sure how much they will cost. My other concern is the screen substrate; I can't really mark up walls or ceilings too bad because of my landlord, so I was looking for the cheapest and lightest material available. I have dell 5100mp projector (claims to be 3000 lumens) in my smaller basement. The screen size is about 85" diagonal with little to no unwanted ambient light. I wanted to do a styrofoam board, but recently read that it bows?

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to post my results for the next person who goes down this route.

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post #2 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 01:07 AM
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I'm not knocking on Maxxmudd or SF, but in your situation with a nicely un-lit room (plus a modest screen-size and a bright projector) you won't really gain much by using a specialty screen..though you do increase the odds of it turning out wrong.

In a dark room a plain flat white paint will look perfect, even if it is simply rolled on. The thicker insulation board (darker, purple-ish, almost has a texture like a Nerf dart) doesn't experience trouble with curling. I've been using a thin 1/4" 4x8 sheet of it for almost a year and the only curling it has seems to be from my terrible suspension job when it's hung flush against the ceiling..and even then it's minor enough to not be a bother. This particular material is called Foamular and is sold by hardware stores as a weather-resistant/basement/outdoor insulation. It's rigid, not terribly brittle and very light..it is NOT smooth enough to handle high-gain paint applications..only simple flat or matte paint.

Flat white paint is dirt cheap and hides flaws of imperfect surfaces and rolling mistakes ridiculously well. It's nearly impossible to mess up. Also, at 15-$20 for everything you need to paint (including the paint), if you don't like it you'll only be out $20. If you decide to try something fancier later on you can simply apply it over the old flat paint.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.

Last edited by Ftoast; 08-07-2014 at 01:26 AM.
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post #3 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 05:34 AM
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stanson72,

Your situation breaks down into these points:

  • You have a very bright projector - 3300 lumen output actually. It is a 4:3 Native PJ (...a BenQ clone...) and a bit dated.
  • Your Screen size is very small for the level of brightness the PJ produces, even when set on low lamp output.(...2640 lumen...over 80 fls...)
  • The Dell 5100mp has a very low Contrast specification, and it's brightness only works against the production of adequate black levels.
  • All of the above bespeaks the need for a lower gain, Neutral Gray screen surface, certainly not a surface with gain.
  • You do not mention the Color scheme of your room (ceilings & wall) nor the proximity of the Screen's location to those surfaces.
  • Because of the "off the screen" brightness you will achieve, and assuming you will get room reflections, a Gray screen is essential.
  • You would be best served using a stiff, solid substrate such as Thrifty White Hardboard (Home Depot) cut by them to your size.
  • You could in fact roll on your Flat Neutral Gray paint. Spraying is the best though, and the Wagner you mentioned is a good one.
You absolutely do not want a white screen....it would simply be too bright. What must be determined is just how far into Gray you need to go.
My initial thoughts tend to have me suggest a N8.0 at most.
Your cost in a simple Neutral Gray "off the shelf" paint (...and Primer...will come in well under your proposed budget, however both must be thinned considerably to work well with the Wagner.

A 85" diagonal screen in 16:9 is 42" x 74" so to make framing and hanging easy, cut your board to 48" x 80" so as to have 3" border on all sides.

If you want you can up your screen size easily enough by using the Thrifty White at 48" x 85" (98" diagonal) and putting trim around those edge dimensions. I can provide you with the instructions on how to easily do that.

All in all yours is a fairly simple project...a good inexpensive starter system. Be sure to ask any / all questions you have before they become pleas for help.





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post #4 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 05:54 AM
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Forgot to give you a Paint to consider.

00NN 53/000 . . . Glidden "Veil" [N7.8]

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post #5 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 09:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for the responses! I guess I did leave out some important details...

-room size is fairly small with standard matte white walls and ceilings. The wall I will be mounting on is 75" wide, and my projector will be mounted on the ceiling about 130" away from the screen. The projector is very bright and IS definitely outdated, but hey, how could I pass up a 1080p projector with 300 original lamp hours for 190$ on ebay? That was my thinking at least, I thought I got a steal?

I really tried hard to avoid posting, cause I know these questions have been asked a million times, but it seems like every few months the consensus for the best paint changes. Which usually leads to conflicting reports when I'm sifting between older and newer threads. I thought an update from the wizards would be best!

I'm definitely going with a thrifty white board, and I was unaware of the subpar performance of SF and MaxxM screens in dark rooms. Well I guess I myswell return the Wagner and roll the paint. Now that I have some extra money, are there any other paints I should throw in? I have 50 or 60$ to spend on a nice paint mix since I'm not going with the SF or Maxx mix. I would like to be able to get everything local at home depot/lowes and michaels.

Thanks guys

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post #6 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanson72 View Post
Thank you so much for the responses! I guess I did leave out some important details...

-room size is fairly small with standard matte white walls and ceilings. The wall I will be mounting on is 75" wide, and my projector will be mounted on the ceiling about 130" away from the screen. The projector is very bright and IS definitely outdated, but hey, how could I pass up a 1080p projector with 300 original lamp hours for 190$ on ebay? That was my thinking at least, I thought I got a steal?
More like you got Hoodwinked....or worse, just didn't know better. Well everyone has to learn eventually...some the hard way, other by finding out from Balloon Poppin' people like me.

The Dell 5100mp is a SXGA projector 1400 x 1050 (4:3) No 1080p there, Bub, ......1080p = 1920 x 1080

Quote:
I really tried hard to avoid posting, cause I know these questions have been asked a million times, but it seems like every few months the consensus for the best paint changes. Which usually leads to conflicting reports when I'm sifting between older and newer threads. I thought an update from the wizards would be best!
Darn....now iffin' you had posted and asked about the PJ in question and what would have been the best screen....before you jumped............. NEVER hesitate to ask what you might think is a redundant, silly....even outright dumb question. No such things exist in this realm where we want to address every member's needs, when he is in need. This might hit home.....many people are not very well learned, and most have no clue as to what has been posted before they came aboard.

It's been some while since any Member might expect a Flame Job simply because he posted a question already answered 5-10 posts back.

Quote:
I'm definitely going with a thrifty white board, and I was unaware of the subpar performance of SF and MaxxM screens in dark rooms.
Where the 'ell did that come from ???? Totally false ! And brother, talk about a silly premise! Ya got a screen that delivers an excellent image in adverse conditions.....deep Blacks....great Whites and Colors....excellent Detail and virtually NO viewing cone....at all !
........and somehow it's going to look worse in a light controlled setting? For the record....anyone...anywhere...who could voice that sort of comment is either 1000% clueless as to how the world works, or they have a personal agenda to fulfill.

Sheesh......

Quote:
Well I guess I myswell return the Wagner and roll the paint. Now that I have some extra money, are there any other paints I should throw in? I have 50 or 60$ to spend on a nice paint mix since I'm not going with the SF or Maxx mix. I would like to be able to get everything local at home depot/lowes and michaels.

Thanks guys
You go with a Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 and get crazy happy. We can show you how to tweek the Mix to suit your PJ when it is on Low lamp, and if it is still too bright, you just simply add on a ND Filter.

Let's get you thinking straight....be it with a Roller or Gun, advanced paint scheme or a simple "One Can Wonder".

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post #7 of 19 Old 08-07-2014, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Ahh, did I get anything right!? Just when I think I've got things figured out you come along and pop my bubble lol. But somebody needs to tell me, I appreciate the knowledge!

Ftoast in one of the posts above suggested that the silver fire would not be worth it with such a bright projector in a small basement. I was under the impression that it would perform only marginally better than a good inexpensive grey screen since there is no ambient light. But now you are saying that SilverFite IS worth all the extra costs, even in the basement with my 3k lumen pj? If so, I'll keep the spray gun and go with a specialty mix. I guess I'll go my original route and do either Maxmud or SF. What are the rough costs of the two? I'm thinkin that I should go with the option that is less costly.

And lastly, I built a roughly 70x40" frame out of 1x3" boards (cost about 25$). Because weight is a concern of mine, I was wondering if I could substitute the thrifty white board for a sheet of styofoam since bowing isn't a concern anymore. Or does the surface of the styofoam sheets at HD/lowes not react well to paint? Homedepot's website says that a 4x8 sheet of 1/8" thrifty whiteboard weighs 25 pounds, which seems pretty heavy?

Thanks again! Slowly but surely its starting to make sense.

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post #8 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 08:59 AM
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Faced Styrofoam can be painted if it is first primed with a primer such as Glidden Gripper, a primer intended to adhere to problematical surfaces. To not do so risks lifting, bubbles, or peeling.

RS-MaxxMudd cost the least by about $35.00

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post #9 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Faced Styrofoam can be painted if it is first primed with a primer such as Glidden Gripper, a primer intended to adhere to problematical surfaces. To not do so risks lifting, bubbles, or peeling.

RS-MaxxMudd cost the least by about $35.00
Great, thanks for the suggestions. Will the retro Maxxmudd be dark enough or should it be modified for my bright pj and small basement? Does the following formula look correct? This is what I think I've pieced together from different suggestions in other threads.

20 oz Liquitex Basics Silver <----- OR 20 oz of Rustoleum metallic acccents sterling silver. Whichever one I can get easier/cheaper with preference towards Rustoleum. If the difference is major I will order the Rusto
10 oz Rustoleom Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz Behr 1750 Flat or Glidden Premium Flat White
12 oz Minwax PolyAcrylic Satin Finish <----- OR Rustoleum Ultimate Matte polyurathane depending on which is cheaper/easier to get. Unless Rusto is absolutely superior?
16 oz distilled/tap water**

Really appreciate all the help! I can't wait to get this sprayed. I was hoping to be able to get all the paint local, so I guess I'll go out later and see what's available from the list above.

Thanks!

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post #10 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 07:00 PM
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If you got lucky and have a Lowes at hand, you probably had a good chance at finding all three of the Rustoleum products.

Using the Rustoleum items amounts to what is considered the current "Best Choice" scenario.

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post #11 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 07:34 PM - Thread Starter
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If you got lucky and have a Lowes at hand, you probably had a good chance at finding all three of the Rustoleum products.

Using the Rustoleum items amounts to what is considered the current "Best Choice" scenario.
Lowes stopped carrying all behr and rustoleum products in store. I couldn't find a can of rustoleum either, so I asked the clerk and was told that lowes now carries exclusively valspar in-store. All other products must be ordered online and shipped to the store. AND, lowes only sells rustoleum metallic accents in 2-packs of quarts Sooo it looks like the rustoleum latex paints are online only for me. Unless Home Depot carries them? I'll have to call.

I also picked up a sheet of styrofoam. They all contained a fair amount of little cracks, dimples and craters. I'm questioning whether the glidden grip will be able to level this sheets surface.

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post #12 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 08:04 PM
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Ditch the Styrofoam idea....return it. Get Thrifty white Hardboard at HD. Just go cherry pick a really clean sheet.

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post #13 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Ditch the Styrofoam idea....return it. Get Thrifty white Hardboard at HD. Just go cherry pick a really clean sheet.
Yea that seems like the best idea. So does that formula look right? I guess I'll start ordering the paints.
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post #14 of 19 Old 08-09-2014, 09:11 PM
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Yea that seems like the best idea. So does that formula look right? I guess I'll start ordering the paints.
Presto....all the Gripper will need to do is prep the TWH surface for your paint.

Yeah...take the time and make the effort to get the optimal materials paints. Let me know if you have any issues doing so.

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post #15 of 19 Old 08-10-2014, 08:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Presto....all the Gripper will need to do is prep the TWH surface for your paint.

Yeah...take the time and make the effort to get the optimal materials paints. Let me know if you have any issues doing so.
Great, so I've read around that you must paint the back side (NOT the shiny side) of the TWH, or else the paint never really sticks the way it should. Now is that just when you dont prep the front first? Can I paint the back side just as it is, or should I apply the glidden grip to a particular face?

Thanks!

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post #16 of 19 Old 08-10-2014, 11:47 AM
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No...you paint onto the shiny white side....that is what the Gripper Primer is for. Not sure where...or why you saw what you did, but as far as using the back of the TWH it's wrong.

Using Silver Fire alone I have successfully sprayed onto TWH using the Duster coat method, because the first 2 Duster coats act like primer....but if one is to attempt to roll on paint the Gripper primer is absolutely necessary.

If you have enough Gripper left, use it on the back...but if your mounting the TWH to a frame you don't have much to worry about warpage anyway.

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post #17 of 19 Old 08-10-2014, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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No...you paint onto the shiny white side....that is what the Gripper Primer is for. Not sure where...or why you saw what you did, but as far as using the back of the TWH it's wrong.

Using Silver Fire alone I have successfully sprayed onto TWH using the Duster coat method, because the first 2 Duster coats act like primer....but if one is to attempt to roll on paint the Gripper primer is absolutely necessary.

If you have enough Gripper left, use it on the back...but if your mounting the TWH to a frame you don't have much to worry about warpage anyway.
A moderator at hometheatreshack specifically mentioned the above in a post. He said a week later he could easily scratch the paint of with his fingernail. But now I know. You mentioned silver fire as a primer with the first duster coats. Does the same apply with the maxxmudd mix? If I can do that I'll skip then glidden grip, as I will be spraying with the Wagner paint gun

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post #18 of 19 Old 08-10-2014, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanson72 View Post
A moderator at hometheatreshack specifically mentioned the above in a post. He said a week later he could easily scratch the paint of with his fingernail. But now I know. You mentioned silver fire as a primer with the first duster coats. Does the same apply with the maxxmudd mix? If I can do that I'll skip then glidden grip, as I will be spraying with the Wagner paint gun
Well of course he did....and he'd be just the type of doofuss to purposefully try to scratch a screen's surface, wouldn't he? .

Sheesh, I can scratch paint off a wall if I apply just a but more than a light finger's touch. You'll have to understand many comments coming from that direction are intentionally made to counter suggestions and advice coming from this direction. While some might have a basis in fact, often they have no firm root in actual use.

Yes...I suggested the Glidden because it seemed you had mentioned preferring to roll? Well, so many posts go by I can get them mixed up.
Even so, spraying on a smooth, couple Dusters of the Glidden Gripper will go a ways toward helping build up some resistance to the inadvertent scratch.

But I'll tell you this, I don't give DIY'ers any ideas about intentionally scratching their screens!!!

But let's say an accident did occur. Having some extra paint stored in a well sealed pint bottle, and a little Prevail Sprayer at hand can effect a quick repair easily enough it would be of no real concern. Even less a concern if there was a underlying coat of Glidden hanging on. But if the Doberman jumps up and paws at the screen, all bets are off !

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post #19 of 19 Old 08-10-2014, 08:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Well of course he did....and he'd be just the type of doofuss to purposefully try to scratch a screen's surface, wouldn't he? .

Sheesh, I can scratch paint off a wall if I apply just a but more than a light finger's touch. You'll have to understand many comments coming from that direction are intentionally made to counter suggestions and advice coming from this direction. While some might have a basis in fact, often they have no firm root in actual use.
Haha theres a reason why I came here for questions rather than that forum. It took me ten minutes to realize that the ones with the greatest knowledge of this stuff are right here at avsforums. You and a handful of others, provide answers that are farrrrr more in-depth and helpful. Not to mention, I saw numerous claims from mods that the people who push SF and MaxxM here on AVS are vendors of the paint who are just trying to make money I figured they were a bunch of shmucks after reading some of those comments.

Well, I picked up a sheet of TWH for 6$ at Homedepot today, along with a quart of Behr 1750 for 9$ on sale! That will help offset the cost of the Rustoleum metallic accents silver and pearl (25$ a quart for anyone wondering). I'm only making a 61x34 screen (70" dia.) so I'm gonna have a lot more paint than I need. I wish I could buy it in half quart quantities but oh well! Guess I'll go ahead and order those two!

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