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post #1 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 04:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Newbee DIY Screen Attempt

I've never owned a projector before and recently picked up a Sony HW40ES projector and electric "elitescreens" screen. The projector has blown me away but the screen has left me disappointed. The screen has V shaped lines and the vertical length of the screen is half an inch shorter than it ought to be (how hard is it to measure 87"x49" ?? ) so rather than spend thousands on an a tab tensioned screen, my search for a screen to match my PJ has brought me here.

Here's where I'm at so far:

I'm fairly certain I'm going the BOC route in terms of base material for the screen but I'm open to suggestions - this just seemed like the easiest to get my hands on/cheapest. MDF might be more difficult to get my hands on locally for a 100" screen (let alone getting it home!) although I'm sure I could order it if this is considered the way to go.

I'm under the impression that painting the BOC would result in a much better surface and I'm looking into getting the Behr Silverscreen - Unfortunately this forum has been kind of a sensory overload. I've seen plenty of custom paint mixes with multiple versions and little concrete information (maybe I'm not looking in the right places) so any other recommendations with pros/cons would be hugely appreciated

From what I've gleaned on the forums, rolling on the paint could be disastrous and spraying the paint on is the safe route to go. That said, I've never used a paint sprayer, and so I have no idea what I'm doing! I see everything from heavy duty motorized paint sprayers available for rental all the way down the airless paint sprayers and no idea if the 30$ gun would work as well as the 500$ one for my purposes. Even with that gap filled in, I'm not sure how to actually use the thing, although I can always do a few practice runs before moving on to the main event.

The room, I imagine, is somewhere between ideal and OK in terms of light control. The ceilings are white and the walls are a medium beige. I hope to get both of those sorted out with time, but it'd be a hell of an undertaking so I haven't committed to it yet. That said, I have pretty much total control of lighting and turn the room into a cave at a moment's notice. The projector is about 12' away from the screen, and as I mentioned earlier, 100" diagonal, 16:9.

I'm a newbee (see title) so any suggestions, related to what I've brought up or not, will be hugely appreciated. If possible, I'm aiming to have the project done by the weekend because I can't imagine going back to my 40" for much longer
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post #2 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 05:54 AM
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Your biggest issue will be rushing to get something done without a general consensus having been formulated.

For instance, spending even less on a more suitable substrate than BOC, and getting the spray gun needed and a paint solution that is ideally suited for your PJ. Also, any screen solution that will work with your current room will be bound to do well once you mitigate room reflections...especially off the Ceiling.

Best advice given would be to not rush. Second best advice, condense your efforts and don't delve deep in every possible aspect and application. Simply ask for advice, and listen to advice that comes from a source with actual experience and has proven results to show / offer. There is much out there, supplied by many, but much of it is not applicable to your needs. Last bit of advice...do it right the first time....don't do it "Half Way".

Here is one very simple, effective, and proven suggestion.

Thrifty White Hardboard @ Home Depot mounted on the wall or on a simple Frame, trimmed in Black velvet Wrapped Trim.
Wagner Control Spray HVLP http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60
TWH first primed with Kinsser Bulls Eye 123
Then painted with RS-MaxxMudd LL

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #3 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 06:02 AM
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But to be absolutely fair to every possibility.......you could get this:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00F15H7K0/...ter_B00CR27UI4

...........and paint it like was done here.........."

Painting Onto A 106" Tab Tensioned Screen with Silver Fire v2.5 4.0

Great results for certainly less than $700.00 total.

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post #4 of 29 Old 08-12-2014, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm tempted to buy that screen and paint it but it's too expensive, not to mention I'm in Canada and amazon.ca doesn't have that product. On the topic of Canada...

A quick google brought me to here which lists a v2.1 LL of the mix. I'm concerned that the Canadian counterparts I've found aren't actually the right stuff though, so I'll link what I've found.

20 oz. Rustoleum Metallic Accents - White Pearl
10 oz. Liquitex Basics Silver
12 oz. Behr 1850 Ultra Pure White - Flat

12 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish

20 oz. distilled/tap water**

A couple of quick questions on this...

1. I don't think Canadian Home Depot carries "Thrifty White Headboard" but I'm sure MDF would work just as well once primed... Right? Any other suggestions? My current design calls for a base of ~7' 8" x ~4' 6" with a 2.5" black border along the edges (laid on top) and I've been told by a couple of friends that it might be hard to get my hands on that size.
2. Why the LL version of MaxxMudd vs the other two mixes? I'm fairly certain my projector doesn't qualify as low lumen, although I could be wrong. Is this to help counteract the light reflected from the ceiling?
3. If I understand correctly, I apply the primer, a layer or two of the first three ingredients, then a layer of the last as a sort of seal? Or just one layer of each
4. I've read that the best way to mix the paints is with a drill mixer. I'm fairly certain I can get my hands on one, but on the off chance I can't, any makeshift ideas?

I definitely don't want to rush the project beyond reason, but I figured that by tomorrow I'll have a good idea of what my options are, by Thursday I can start making purchases, Friday I can start the painting process and constructing a frame while the paint dries, and Saturday I can make any necessary finishing touches. I've got the next couple of weeks off, so I've got all the time in the world... in two weeks. That said, if at any point I'm unsure I'll delay indefinitely. I already got one screen I wasn't happy with, so I won't let that happen again!
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post #5 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 12:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Welp, answered a few of my own questions by digging deeper into the MaxxMudd thread! Now I feel dumb having asked

It's all one big batch mixed together (aside from the primer obviously) and applied in various dusting coats, consensus seems to be about 5-6. Only questions I have left on this topic is how the primer should be applied (dustings?) and whether this is an acceptable paint sprayer? It looks to be the same (or an updated) model, and it's a little higher in pricing than I'd like... but so far it's the best I can find that ships to Canada EDIT: Or maybe this or this?

I was going to ask if 1750 was an appropriate substitution for 1850, but it looks like you've answered that question elsewhere on the forums too. You're all over this forum! (Nice lookin' ribs by the way! )

Looks like others have also run into problems with finding bigger MDF and most head for sintra (or another alternative who's name I can't think of) but it seems to me like sourcing that stuff is going to be difficult. I am looking to get as much out of this screen as possible, so I've already sent emails off to a bunch of shops, and I'll hopefully hear back tomorrow. How much should I be expecting it to cost? I don't want to be taken advantage of!

I'm still uncertain about LL vs regular MaxxMudd - I'm just not clear on what the differences are.

Otherwise, forget I even mentioned mixing the paint. 1 gallon squirrel mixers are 10$, I can afford that

Looks like this might be closer to a two week endeavour after all!

Last edited by Crona; 08-13-2014 at 12:55 AM.
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post #6 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 01:54 AM
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Use this Gun. It has a finer Tip (smaller) than does the Double Duty http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0417005.../dp/B000DZBP60

It could be relayed to you easily enough if it cannot be shipped direct. It is a Amazon Prime offering and they are pretty good at getting things into CA. If not, PM me and we'll get you set up.

Primer Duster are "Dusters" and so are applied exactly the same until a evenly coated appearance is achieved. However you should evaluate the texture of the coats, and if one seems rough or scratchy at any point, let dry completely and then lightly sweep sand until smooth. Then continue.

The two major differences in RS-MM-LL and the Standard RS mixes are that the LL is a lighter mix with a less high percentage of Reflective elements, and therein can suffer to be rolled.
Also, it is the mix of choice if one has a PJ with very high Contrast and that is viewed in a totally light controlled Theater with proper non reflective adjoing surfaces.

Since most such PJs obtain their higher contrast by limiting their Lumen output to under 1500, that too is why LL is designated for "Lower Lumen PJs"

You still have some time....so let's address your getting exactly what you need, not just what you can manage to find.

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post #7 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Sent you a PM but it doesn't look great. Thoughts on what a reasonable pricing on sintra should be?
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post #8 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 03:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crona View Post
Thanks! Sent you a PM but it doesn't look great. Thoughts on what a reasonable pricing on sintra should be?
It can vary widely, but 4* x 96" x 6 mm usually goes between $70-80.00 USD and the 120" x 60" x 6 mm from $103.00 all the way to $140.00

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post #9 of 29 Old 08-13-2014, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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It seems like sourcing from sign manufacturers may have been a bad idea - moving onto actual manufacturers and distributors. I've shot off emails to Sabic and Laird Plastics which seem to be a couple of choices people have had success with in Canada. Looks like you've got a lot of experience with Laird, so that's a good sign!

With plans slowly come together on this my mind's beginning to wander to actual construction. As it stands, my current plan is to build a frame with a cross brace. I'll screw the sintra along all 4 sides of the frame, and glue along the middle to keep it from bowing. Then I'll mount a 2-3" border covered in black felt to the sintra. I'm not sure if glue (I read caulking was best?) or an alternate method would be best for that last part.
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post #10 of 29 Old 08-15-2014, 01:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Sabic got it done - 85$ 5'x10'x1/4" and 15$ to have it cut to size. Shipping is, predictably, expensive but it's local and I've got friends with pickups!
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post #11 of 29 Old 08-15-2014, 09:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Primer won't be needed if at least one side of the sintra is pristine, correct?
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post #12 of 29 Old 08-16-2014, 03:05 AM
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That is correct. The initial Duster very light coats themselves act as primer. with the express intent of preping the the surface for all subsiquent coats.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #13 of 29 Old 08-16-2014, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Started picking up supplies today including the behr paint. Unfortunately, I could only find ultra pure white matte but it is still listed as 1750. The customer service insisted it was the same and behr arbitrarily interchanges matte with flat enamel...

WWill the matte be okay?
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post #14 of 29 Old 08-16-2014, 03:30 PM
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1st things first, that technician has no idea what he's talking about.

.....but Matte will do just fine.

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post #15 of 29 Old 08-18-2014, 12:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Found out a family member owns a paint sprayer. Any specific parts I should ask for?
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post #16 of 29 Old 08-21-2014, 11:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I decided to bite the bullet and pick up the paint sprayer. Hopefully it pays for itself over time with use Besides, I figure with this being my first attempt, I'd better stick to known quantities.

Some bad news: the sintra I ordered came in with some bumps and bruises. Looks like they happened pre-shipping. They're invisible 3 feet away but I'm sure they'll be show clear as day with a projector on... So... Plaster, sand, plaster, sand, 3 duster coats of primer?
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post #17 of 29 Old 08-21-2014, 11:56 AM
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Are they dents or just blemishes? Scratches or gouges?

What you have to do to correct them depends upon their severity.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #18 of 29 Old 08-21-2014, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely not scratches or gouges. Assuming by "blemish" you mean surface level, they're just very shallow dents. I've tried to get pictures but they don't show up very well on my phone's camera.
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post #19 of 29 Old 08-21-2014, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crona View Post
Definitely not scratches or gouges. Assuming by "blemish" you mean surface level, they're just very shallow dents. I've tried to get pictures but they don't show up very well on my phone's camera.
If such is true, all you need to do is get a small container of Lightweight Drywall compound and a small (2") Plastic Mud Knife.

Apply just enough Mud onto the end edge of the Knife to let you wipe across the the depression. (Use the Flat, not Beveled edge) Wipe the Knife clean and slide it firmly over the area "once" more. Do the next one...and so on.

The object is to "Fill" not coat. If done correctly, you will see the outline of your dent with the center filled. carefully wipe off any excess compound still around the edges. It doesn't have to be clean...just as much removed as reasonably possible. The Mud in the dent will dry and shrink, so usually it just takes another light swipe with the Knife to completely fill. However this time only slide the knife the second time, do not wipe off any excess.

Now you sand the outside edges ever so lightly first, then gently "wipe sand" the center of the area with a feather-like touch.

The end product should have virtually no tactile sense of a depression.

Let it all dry for at least 3-4 hours before priming. In this instance, 2-3 light Dusters of primer over the entire sheet should leave you in perfect shape. Now you can add a wee bit extra primer onto the affected areas by crossing over then during a pass, twisting your wrist outward, the starting back the opposite direction with a inward twist, then reverse just past the area, and continue on across. Done quickly your simply making sure the Mud'ded areas are completely sealed, but you still will have a evenly applied coating of primer over all.

A variation of the method above works for scratches and even a gouge, with the latter simply taking more of the same initial steps to complete.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #20 of 29 Old 08-21-2014, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent!

Any "all purpose" drywall compound will do?

EDIT: Duh, lightweight. University starting up soon and lots to do! Sorry about all the obvious questions.

Last edited by Crona; 08-21-2014 at 02:54 PM.
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post #21 of 29 Old 08-23-2014, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, maybe three weeks after all Unless I still haven't received the paint sprayer by the end of next week, in which case I'm gonna have a bone to pick with a certain amazon seller!

With the painting itself out of my hands, I'm focusing on what can be done in the meantime, which is the frame. Mainly, I'm undecided as to how I'm going to mount the black velvet covered baseboard to the sintra. The sintra was cut with 3" extra all around with the intention of using that space for mounting screws and covering it up with baseboard.

BUT... how? Finishing nails are what I've found to be most recommended, but I'm not sure if that was for use IN sintra and I'm worried hammering a nail into the sheet will cause a crack. Alternatively, I could always use an adhesive, but one of my goals is to keep the project as modular as possible for any future repairs or moves.

Also, I've attached a picture of one of the dents. I don't think there's much to be said about it, but at worst this works well for documenting my process.

Man... You tired of me yet?
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post #22 of 29 Old 08-23-2014, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crona View Post
OK, maybe three weeks after all Unless I still haven't received the paint sprayer by the end of next week, in which case I'm gonna have a bone to pick with a certain amazon seller!

With the painting itself out of my hands, I'm focusing on what can be done in the meantime, which is the frame. Mainly, I'm undecided as to how I'm going to mount the black velvet covered baseboard to the sintra. The sintra was cut with 3" extra all around with the intention of using that space for mounting screws and covering it up with baseboard.

BUT... how? Finishing nails are what I've found to be most recommended, but I'm not sure if that was for use IN sintra and I'm worried hammering a nail into the sheet will cause a crack. Alternatively, I could always use an adhesive, but one of my goals is to keep the project as modular as possible for any future repairs or moves.
Sintra is not brittle, and a nail passes through easily so no worries whatsoever. Hammer in your Nails at a downward angle, so that when they are set below the Velvet the Heads do not present a flat surface toward the PJ. This assures that even if you don't get them really well set, the Heads won't shine when light strikes them. Also, angling in the Nails makes for a better grab onto the wall, so you don't have to depend upon hitting Studs. Myself, I prefer not hitting Studs, just in case I do have need to remove the Trim at a later date.

Quote:
Also, I've attached a picture of one of the dents. I don't think there's much to be said about it, but at worst this works well for documenting my process.

Man... You tired of me yet?
Not even!

You have about a 1-1/2 years to go to reach narthic_fd's status. And we all still answer his posts.

PS. I don't see no stinkin' attachment !

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post #23 of 29 Old 08-23-2014, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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It was there, I swears it! But here it is again.

And while I'm here, should I be concerned about the texture? Doesn't look like much, but it's not "none" as I was led to believe.
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post #24 of 29 Old 08-24-2014, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crona View Post


It was there, I swears it! But here it is again.

And while I'm here, should I be concerned about the texture? Doesn't look like much, but it's not "none" as I was led to believe.

The dent as shown looks very fixable.

As to "No Texture" that would be impossible. But as to no noticeable texture as seen from 1' -2', and no feel-able texture it looks pretty good.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #25 of 29 Old 08-26-2014, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Here's a question I didn't think I'd have to ask...

What kinda wood should I buy? I've been looking for poplar but it doesn't seem to be as common up here as in the US. Not to mention I can't find any hardwood whatsoever longer than 8ft (I need 8.5ft after my cuts...).

Would this suffice? My main concern is warping which has been brought up in other threads.
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post #26 of 29 Old 09-06-2014, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Everything's in, all that needs to be done is hand work.

Tested the primer on the sintra with a dust coat. Came out pretty blotchy. I'd watered it down as per the instructions on the primer and sprayed ~14" away at about 3ft/second. Should I slow down, speed up, water it down more, or just expect the blotchyness to go away by the third duster?
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post #27 of 29 Old 09-07-2014, 05:05 AM
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The first coat or 3 always looks "blotchy", that is to say it goes on in irregular droplets. The test is as to how flat those droplets dry. If they are applied in the correct fashion, when they do dry they shrink and flatten, and the subsequent coats gradually fill in the spaces.

That all applied to the finish paint coats as well.

Duster coating over several applications, and allowing each coat to completely dry before following up, is what produces the ultra smooth, texture-less finishes we so desire.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #28 of 29 Old 09-07-2014, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MM,

Everything went perfect... for the first 3-4 coats. The primer hadn't properly concealed the plaster, so I gave it another 3. On my second to last dusting I tried skipping cleaning the gun. It only took about 30 minutes for the primer to dry to the touch on the screen, so I figured the gun would be safe. Splatters on the screen say otherwise.

Learnt that lesson. Sanded down with the highest grit paper I could find (600) and now the whole thing is smooth, unless you point a light straight down, then you see some shadows.

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It feels perfectly smooth, and you can't see anything under normal light, but harsh LED light on an angle makes it look like the face of the moon.

I'm going to run over it with sanding paper a few more times, then switch to maxxmudd.

Wish me luck!
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post #29 of 29 Old 09-07-2014, 02:16 PM
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Rottsa Ruck !

To quote James T. Kirk;
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