Occasional skin tone problems with Black Widow 140" - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Occasional skin tone problems with Black Widow 140"

Hey all,

I have a Black Widow screen that I made with the newer version of AAA but the correct vinyl matte. Projector is a Optoma HD25-LV.

The skin tones look almost always good, but some particular tones look really bad. E.g. Watching a football match 21 of the players can look normal and 1 of them looks consistently red and is he's earring a tonne of make-up! In fact the pundits who are wearing make up look **** too. It's people with a slight pink tone in their skin.

Also, it's worse on TV signals than watching DVDs or Bluerays.

Anything I can do about it?
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Old 08-19-2014, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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By the way I forgot to mention that I've calibrated the projector using the Disney WOW blueray disc.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevpatts View Post
Hey all,

I have a Black Widow screen that I made with the newer version of AAA but the correct vinyl matte. Projector is a Optoma HD25-LV.

The skin tones look almost always good, but some particular tones look really bad. E.g. Watching a football match 21 of the players can look normal and 1 of them looks consistently red and is he's earring a tonne of make-up!

Also, it's worse on TV signals than watching DVDs or Bluerays.

Anything I can do about it?
Short of repainting with a solution that does not exhibit such tendencies....no.

Except run the PJ on Low lamp and reduce Brightness & specific color Gamma levels. But that seems counterproductive to maintaining a vibrant, engaging image.

The saturated color of the TV broadcast is reacting to the particular reflective properties of the Aluminum. In the previous incarnations of BW, the tendencies toward pushing colors was mitigated bt the use of a Beige Base, and without that BW could never have been a remote possibility....unless the developers would have been willing to consider using a more multi-step approach toward balancing out such properties.

But that was not their intent, so purposefully directed were they toward avoiding any methods employed here, and with the specific demand that the mix contain only two items...Base and AAA.

It worked...but it could only do so if the AAA content was held to a certain level or below. So any chance of increased Gain via the actual reflective properties Aluminum might provide became moot.

The new AAA comes more masked and muted...hence why it can be added to a White base...or lightly Tinted Gray base. But even so the aluminum will shift saturated reds into overdrive. If you were still compiling your mix, a small addition of Metallic Gold would have corrected that tendency toward a red push. It also helps to counteract slight blue pushes as well.

But as for achieving some real effective Gain as well as deeper Blacks,and doing so without skewering colors, BW is not an effective solution

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:02 PM
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In retrospect I don't think the Gold would be the best answer, as opposed to adding the slightest amount of Thallo Green. But let me do some thinking on the matter. Truthfully, with little experience dealing with the need to balance out Aluminum's particular issues, my suggestions seem a bit too close to being educated guesswork for my taste.

It may well be that point specific Calibration may be your only true route toward a solution at this conjecture.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks MississippiMan,

Very informative. Unfortunately I'm not still mixing, I've had the screen up for many months, but I've only got the HD sources configured and the PJ calibrated recently, I thought they might resolve it before I looked at the screen as an issue.

I'd be willing to repaint though if you think there is a better mix that I should consider? I have a lot of ambient light and light coloured walls I'm afraid, although I can achieve good darkness in the evening and with 3200 lumens it's not too bad.
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:03 AM
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Well................,

Without any intent to dredge up previous rivalries or encourage rebuttals, it must be stated that no BW application, regardless of AAA make-up or base / Tint used has ever achieved the performance envelope that Silver Fire accomplishes.

I do appreciate you willingness to consider a re-do. If you have the capability to spray, or are willing to acquire the needed Electric HVLP Gun, absolutely you can reconstitute that 140" screen into a stellar performer, one that has all the true ambient light performance as well as a LED/LCD like image in a light controlled situation. Best of all, the current v2.5 is so color neutral that most find any changes in color values unnecessary across the spectrum. Of course that statement must adhere to the inherent differences in PJ performance, but these days few PJs come so color deficient out of the box as to need drastic re-calibration.

However....I might first suggest you try re-calibrating your screen using a true, Filter-based program such as Video Essentials. While the Disney WOW disc is very intuitive and User friendly, it lacks the depth of accuracy that more involved and complete Calibration programs.

Now granted, the degree of calibration required to correct the adverse hues you see during TV viewing might go too far when viewing DVD video, and unless you can store different calibration values in selected program modes, then the only really certain option is to re-do your screen.

If that is your wish, then Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 is my recommendation. And if you do go there, I will provide you with 3 oz of the SF Colorant....just because your a BW to SF convert. It is the least I can do.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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Old 08-20-2014, 07:03 PM
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Try watching the offending media on your TV to see if it's the channel/signal's fault. If it looks fine on the tv, try projecting onto a white wall or surface if possible..if it's still there on the white you'll need to dial it out with the projector's color and color-management (CMS) like MM suggested.
Only after making sure it isn't the signal or the projector's fault should you go screen hunting.

Because certain broadcasts (particularly sports) tend to skimp on bandwidth by using compression that can do screwy things to colors AND because the hd25lv isn't very color-accurate (white and secondary segments in the colorwheel used to artificially boost white-brightness), it's a safe bet your screen is alright.

You might have to lower brilliantcolor a little and dial back the saturation of magenta in CMS.

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
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