Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 1346 Old 06-09-2017, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seedyunder View Post
I read through this thread over and over until I just got confused.

First off I am not looking for professional results, I bought a LG PH150G (130 lumens) on sale for $135.
I was looking for lazy, half arsed and cheap to help improve my lower quality setup.

The Home Depot and Lowes by me in NYC did not have any mentioned metallics but figured I had gathered enough info from this thread and decided what the hell!
I purchased what was available at home depot.

PPG Metallic Tones Silver Base - 1 QT
Glidden Premium Flat Matte (Gray Tabby) - 1 QT
About $30 total

Attachment 2180929

I did a base coat with the Glidden and then mixed the remaining with all of the Metallic (1:1ish)
Then two coats with 1/4" x 4" nap roller.
I was impatient and only waited an 1 1/2 hour after first coat than maybe 30 mins between coats.

Think I should have done 2:1 and came out a lil dark, but happy with the amount of effort / money.

110" from about 18' away.

Thanks for all your info Ftoast, maybe you can test a PPG Metallic Tones mix
]
I'm having the same problem as you. Only 1gal of Ralph Lauren at home depot for $47 or the PPG for $21 1qt. Also Dunn Edwards has 1qt of metallic for about $30. Both untested so not sure on mixtures. I was going for around a gray tabby darkness. I have the 4x8 foot smooth mdf board and my father in law has been a professional painter and has a special gun that sprays thick water based paint for trains so I'm thinking it will be perfect. Just need a formula using the materials I have available
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post #1262 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seedyunder View Post
I did a base coat with the Glidden and then mixed the remaining with all of the Metallic (1:1ish)
Then two coats with 1/4" x 4" nap roller.
I was impatient and only waited an 1 1/2 hour after first coat than maybe 30 mins between coats.

Think I should have done 2:1 and came out a lil dark, but happy with the amount of effort / money.

110" from about 18' away.

Thanks for all your info Ftoast, maybe you can test a PPG Metallic Tones mix

Attachment 2180889
Attachment 2180897
Attachment 2180905
Attachment 2180913
Attachment 2180921
I haven't checked my local HomeDepot for a couple months, so I'll definitely have to see if they're carrying the PPG metallic as well or if they can locate a close-ish HomeDepot that is.
That price sounds sweet.

Question for you: as a person who's read through more of this crazy-long thread than most could stomach, can you remember or think of anything that you found helpful or important that'd be nice if it was edited into the first post right at the beginning?
Don't stress over it if you saw something but don't remember anymore, but if you happen to think of something that would've been nice to find right away, please let me know.

It looks like you did an awesome job on your screen.
I showed your pictures to a friend and had to quickly explain that it was a projector on a painted wall in a lit room...Because they asked where you got that huge poster.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1263 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 09:15 AM
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Ill be picking up some gray tabby and PPG metallic today and hopefully spraying the board today as well. Speedy/ftoast any combined advice on spraying this mixture? The board is. 1/8" 4'x8' CAT HDBD board. Will be spraying with a SATA jet 5000B has a 1.8needle. He uses it to spray thick water based paint on sunway trains, I dont think the thickness will be a problem. Can i just reduce with distilled water? I like the sound of 2:1 metallic:color since ill be spraying I think i can get away with less material to cover a 100" screen. Would putting down a white first coat be a good idea?
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post #1264 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 09:45 AM
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Heres what im dealing with, optomo HD142X on eco mode and cinema setting. 129" throw. White heavily textured wall. Currently a little larger than 100" diag but going to zoom it down to fit the 100" board. Light coming in from just about every direction. All but one windows blinds are closed. Summer in socal gets a lot of sunshine this is at 9:30am.
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post #1265 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonpinhead View Post
Would putting down a white first coat be a good idea?
When spraying any darker Top Coat, a bright white undercoat is always an advantage. It also give you opportunity to judge how well your sprayer is laying down coats. Also, you'll have the opportunity to lightly sand smooth the initial White coat so as to achieve an even smoother Top Coat.

Since your spraying, the recommended Mix will perform even better if you add 16 oz of Clear Matte Polyurethane (water based) Do that, and the slightly added translucency the Poly affords will allow the underlying White surface to help preserve the White as well as Color brightness...both which will suffer a noticeable hit with a color as dark as Gray Tabby. The Optoma does have plenty of lumen to light up a 100" screen, but the Gray Tabby is dark, and there will be attenuation happening, brook no mistake.

It's not very much additional expense, but the difference it will make is more than worth the $15.00 or so cost.

(...added note: I personally think there is a undue amount of risk using a full quart of the PPG *1:1 ratio* Silver, as it's properties have not been vetted by any properly determined use as of yet, especially at the ratio of 1:1. You can add the full amount, but if you see a preponderance of metallic Flakes present in the completed mix, you might want to add another 1/2 to 1 Quart of the Gray Tabby....)

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post #1266 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 10:53 AM
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MM so youresaying to go the other way with 2:1 2 parts color to 1 part metallic? I like that idea so if something goes wrong i have another shot with a half quart of metallic left.
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post #1267 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 11:57 AM
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I got 1qt varathane matte, 1qt rustoleum primer, 1qt ppg metallic, and 1qt flat gray tabby.

Going to mix 1/2qt polyurethane with 1qt white primer for the base coat. Then 1/2qt metallic, 1qt gray tabby, and 1/2qt polyurethane for the top coat. Sound right?
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post #1268 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 02:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonpinhead View Post
I got 1qt varathane matte, 1qt rustoleum primer, 1qt ppg metallic, and 1qt flat gray tabby.

Going to mix 1/2qt polyurethane with 1qt white primer for the base coat. Then 1/2qt metallic, 1qt gray tabby, and 1/2qt polyurethane for the top coat. Sound right?
I suggest using JUST the primer or just some of the Grey Tabby for the base coat...then give it a light/gentle sanding by hand if the base coat isn't super smooth.
The base coat only has one or two jobs (make the surface hold onto the mix a little nicer than many panels usually do by themselves, and make it either closer to the color you're aiming for or white), I don't believe the poly will help in the base coat and it might make sanding a little trickier/slower.

Even the strongest metallic I've used doesn't produce a lot of gain at 1:2 metallic:color ratio, and the previous 3 different tintable metallic (like this PPG) that I've used have all been about 8X less concentrated than the stronger metallic. I suggest a 2:1 ratio metallic:color like you mentioned, but there should be enough metallic to try both because after the panel has a base coat layer that's smooth, a mix of 1/2quart metallic and 1/4quart GreyTabby should be plenty for a 100" screen...and that leaves more than enough for a 1:1 or 1:2 lower-gain mix if you want.

Adding a small amount of water for thinning the mix (and also for the base coat) should help it lay a bit smoother...aiming to make it a little thinner than the Glidden paint is a pretty safe bet without going too extreme..around 10oz water together with 3/4quart of paint or mix I'm guessing.
Making a tiny batch to practice spraying can help.


I disagree with Mississippi about some of the things the matte poly does and doesn't do (when the rest of the mix stays the same, I've always witnessed added poly at least slightly lowering peak gain) BUT I have liked how adding poly helps some sprayed mixes lay a little smoother and dry a little faster..so I'm not against using it if the added cost and potential slight gain-lowering doesn't bother you.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1269 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 02:51 PM
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Thanks for chiming in ftoast i got a lot of info and opinions to go by now. I was reading the labels once i got home and some of this stuff is good for 400sq. Ft. Per gallon and i only need about 36 sq. ft. If i use the polyurethane will the water be an option to reduce at that point or still required? My fater in law is bringing a vicosity cup home to check the flow so maybe just wait and see
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post #1270 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 04:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Adding water will still be an option with or without the poly.
I got a quick look at the PPG metallic and it feels a touch thicker than the RalphLauren, so adding a little water to the mix will likely help and using the viscosity cup to make sure things are nice for that specific gun shouldn't hurt.

A little funny, I'm in the opposite position as you two where my nearest HomeDepot still sells both RalphLauren quarts and gallons, but I only saw the PPG in gallons for now.
It looks like the PPG metallic is perfectly setup to replace the RalphLauren metallic being the same style and price..now I just need to decide whether to buy a ~$48 gallon or spend some gas on a drive for a ~$20quart instead.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1271 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neonpinhead View Post
I got 1qt varathane matte, 1qt rustoleum primer, 1qt ppg metallic, and 1qt flat gray tabby.

Going to mix 1/2qt polyurethane with 1qt white primer for the base coat. Then 1/2qt metallic, 1qt gray tabby, and 1/2qt polyurethane for the top coat. Sound right?

You do not add Poly to the Primer.

But you do have a choice as to whose advice to follow.

I have advocated and used Polyurethane in Mixes for many, many years. Ftoast has only recently embraced it for limited reasons (viscosity & application easement ) but as often is the case misstates the Poly's basic premise, alluding to it being suggested by me for increase gain properties.

For the record (...should he care to take note...) It is NOT used to increase gain in and of itself. If that was the case a Satin would be prescribed. It's use however is in fact twofold.
  • To decrease the viscosity index of a mix, making paint both apply and dry smoother while reducing the overall amount of water needed to effect a similar action.
  • It does...in proper ratio to a given mix, greatly enhance the translucency factor of multiple layers, allowing for both greater penetration of light, and letting the suspended Metallic particles create a more even distribution of reflected light throughout the mix, and THAT means it helps one achieves the MAXIMUM amount of potential gain inherent in a given mix.
.
.
Now while it is true that I have not used or experimented with the PPG Metallic, any excessive use is extremely harder to correct than is error on the conservative side. If indeed any correction is possible past a certain point. I stated that based on experience, I had reservations about the suggested ratio...I never said your world would end should you opt to go down that road. It might...but it's not a given.
I'll agree on one thing...the Gray Tabby is so dark, that it may well suppress the metallic content in the suggested mix to such an extreme it's rendered moot.

My reasoning is this:


Using 1/2 the ratio of Metallic, and replacing it with Poly, both thins the Mix and reduces the masking effect the Gray Tabby will have on the metallic particles. If one/you were to do anything other than...then increasing the mix to a 1:1:1 ratio, Metallic-GT-Poly makes better sense. One might hope that together, the suppression effect of the GT will be mitigated by the translucency qualities of the Poly. But all that only applies of the PPG Metallic is not too overly aggressive. That is why I consul a bit of caution.

This is his thread, so my suggestions are / have been limited to very basic tweaks that might help make what would be / is a dull, low gain approach be a bit better. But feeling the need to dispute and / or dismiss anything I suggest, he seems determined to say whatever it takes to discount my advice. ...and that is clearly shown by his misstated and incorrect comments and assumptions about my advice. Many, many others have come forward to state similar expressions...mostly I have been reluctant to do so.

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 06-11-2017 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Trying to be less obtuse.
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post #1272 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 10:27 PM
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I did not realize i got a gray primer. Went ahead and mixed 16oz primer to 16oz poly, since the poly lightened it up a bit. Reduced it with some water and it went down very nice and dried in 12 mins. Mixed up the top coat which was 16oz metallic, 8oz gray tabby, and 16oz poly then reduced it with some water. Put a coat down, let it dry, then addressed some minor imperfections then put down another coat and it looks amazing. The color is right where i wanted it to be, a bit on the darker side but id say almost in the middle. The PPG metallic is a lot whiter than i was expecting. It looks very matte unless you look at it close right on you can see the pearl.
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post #1273 of 1346 Old 06-10-2017, 10:51 PM
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Well that sounds "All Good".

In many respects, it seems the PPG Metallic Silver Base has very little Gray pigment in it, leaving the Gray Tabby to get most of the "Gray" coloration accomplished. I'd also say that the Gray Primer served to help attenuate things a bit, while the Poly in both Primer and Mix served to balance out the Gray of the GT.

One thing..you mentioned "Pearl" when describing the appearance. I did not see "Pearl" mentioned anywhere before as being the type Metallic being used. Only "Metallic Silver Base". Usually people gravitate toward using "Silver" (...such is what Ftoast almost always suggests...) so that is what I was basing my own comments and concerns about.

If indeed it was a "Pearl"...a light, slightly off-white Mica based metallic, or simply a non-tinted Metallic additive, then absolutely that would make a substantial difference.

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post #1274 of 1346 Old 06-11-2017, 12:08 AM
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I was using "pearl" as a term to describe the mica appearance of the metallic in the paint. Like automotive paint which i have much more experience with. It looked like an automotive peral to me. Its much darker than the pics make it seem. Here are some dark viewing examples
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post #1275 of 1346 Old 06-11-2017, 12:14 AM
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As a good comparison, my surface pro below the projected image. Im streaming from my surface to the projector so same image. The surface looks more washed out and colors are not as bright.
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post #1276 of 1346 Old 06-11-2017, 02:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Well that sounds "All Good".
In many respects, it seems the PPG Metallic Silver Base has very little Gray pigment in it, leaving the Gray Tabby to get most of the "Gray" coloration accomplished.
The PPG metallic is a translucent tintable metallic like the previous RalphLauren and Disney/Glidden (and MarthaStewart).
It looks off-white while wet and dries a slightly milky/clear.
It's best to think of it as a mica metallic additive in a matte medium/deep-base.
There is a very small amount of KX pigment.

The previous similar metallics were less pigmented than typical "pearl" and about half as concentrated as Rustoleum Metallic Accents Pearl..though they seemed to spray a little smoother easier than the Rustoleum.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1277 of 1346 Old 06-11-2017, 03:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neonpinhead View Post
I was using "pearl" as a term to describe the mica appearance of the metallic in the paint. Like automotive paint which i have much more experience with. It looked like an automotive peral to me. Its much darker than the pics make it seem. Here are some dark viewing examples
Does the screen show a bright enough image or is the image too dark/dim?
I'm guessing you're talking about how dark-colored the screen is?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1278 of 1346 Old 06-11-2017, 09:28 AM
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The image is perfectly bright. I was talking about how the screen looks white in the pics but its more of a dark gray color. Heres another pic at 9:30am with the curtains open this time. The image is mostly dark im very happy that i can see the picture. You can tell how datk gray it is against the white wall now.
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post #1279 of 1346 Old 06-17-2017, 08:12 AM
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Yes...ANSI Lumen ratings are essentially Mfg hype, and totally without merit as far as being a worthwhile benchmark upon which to make any buying decision.

Just ask anyone who eve bought a Chinese made 4500 Lumen "LED" projector.....for under $800.00.

The same applies to Dynamic Contrast Ratios...with a very, very few exceptions. Native Contrast Ratios are the ticket to ride.

............except when they are not.

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That point will most probably be reached if either someone locates an existing, higher gain Milliskin spandex cloth in a appropriate color/s and that possesses no sheen, or some Mfg steps up to fill that need/desire (...even unintentionally. Look out if he calls it "AT Screen material" though. The price will rise dramatically. )

Don't put too much stock in Videos as far as benchmarks for judgement. Far more than Screen shots, Video Cameras sample and correct light & color imbalances in videos out of sheer necessity. That's all good for those trying to sell their "Latest & Greatest", but lousy as far as it all being a case of "WYSIWYG"
Are you serious?

There isn't much to debate on lumens claimed by companies, they're all BS because they test their products differently and nobody can ever get reach their claimed lumens anyway. What does it mean if a cheapo Benq has 3000 lumens while a $5000 JVC only has 1300 lumens? That we should buy the Benq instead because it's got more lumens?

Secondly, we SHOULD put more stock in videos for benchmarking projectors (many projector reviewers on youtube doing video reviews on projectors), what's the point of buying anything that projects or processes images if we can't even see what it can do.

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post #1280 of 1346 Old 06-17-2017, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rocklee View Post
Are you serious?

There isn't much to debate on lumens claimed by companies, they're all BS because they test their products differently and nobody can ever get reach their claimed lumens anyway. What does it mean if a cheapo Benq has 3000 lumens while a $5000 JVC only has 1300 lumens? That we should buy the Benq instead because it's got more lumens?
Yes, I am, but are you, considering that my quote above essentially says exactly what you just pointed out? That being, that stated Mfg specs are not always (if even mostly) to be depended upon.

Quote:
Secondly, we SHOULD put more stock in videos for benchmarking projectors (many projector reviewers on youtube doing video reviews on projectors), what's the point of buying anything that projects or processes images if we can't even see what it can do.
Sheesh. When I refer to those people who use videos to show off their projects (...or products...) I'm not referring to Reviewers using good to exceptional Video equipment to produce such. I'm referring to the iPhones, Google / Android, Pocket Cam crowd. All of whose equipment goes a long way down the road to process the Video image and improve it artificially.

The argument over static Screen Shots' validity is essentially based on that same thinking. Few ever bother to calibrate a Camera...Phone or Digital...to achieve images that are truly WYSIWYG. Even fewer ever use Manual...or multi-frame bracketing, choosing the image that does most closely represent what they see. Those of us who do, we do so to add weight to our own exclamations that what is being shown does in fact represent what we see in person.

But we still get dissed or argued with anyway, so.....

I mean really, how often have you seen a Poster's photos prefaced by a disclaimer that the Camera just doesn't / can't do the projected image justice? Well that door can swing the other way...and in the case of videos, many built-in programs in newer Phones and Cameras are specifically intended to improve on the images received.

Understanding...and accepting that is in fact being very "serious", and essential in being able to put things in their proper perspective.

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post #1281 of 1346 Old 06-17-2017, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Yes, I am, but are you, considering that my quote above essentially says exactly what you just pointed out? That being, that stated Mfg specs are not always (if even mostly) to be depended upon.
But you readily dished a segment of (lower end) projectors instead of ALL of them, and you still can't explain if a cheapo Benq with higher rated lumens is better than a $5000 JVC with less lumens because nobody is going to agree with your assessment if you say that the projector with the supposedly higher lumens is better.

Quote:
Sheesh. When I refer to those people who use videos to show off their projects (...or products...) I'm not referring to Reviewers using good to exceptional Video equipment to produce such.

I'm referring to the iPhones, Google / Android, Pocket Cam crowd. All of whose equipment goes a long way down the road to process the Video image and improve it artificially.
Which is typical behaviour for consumers who look at a product and take pictures.

Cameras need light to perform at their best, so does everything else that we see in real life because without lighting we can't see them.

Projectors need to project artificial lighting off a screen in complete darkness to perform at their best. To the camera however this simply becomes a blob of excessive lighting so naturally the two was never going to work together. Can you capture the sun directly and everything around it? No, you would need a filter and you would need to step down your aperture. This is not the camera's fault, this is the camera needing to compensate for the crappy situation it is in to try and capture something. So if the picture looks abnormally bright then the source is abnormally bright, that says something about the projection not the camera which like looking at the sun is not exactly a good thing if you think about it. All the camera did was expose the very thing that is wrong with projectors.

Quote:
The argument over static Screen Shots' validity is essentially based on that same thinking. Few ever bother to calibrate a Camera...Phone or Digital...to achieve images that are truly WYSIWYG. Even fewer ever use Manual...or multi-frame bracketing, choosing the image that does most closely represent what they see. Those of us who do, we do so to add weight to our own exclamations that what is being shown does in fact represent what we see in person.
So without video/photo evidence what is the next best method in assessing projected images? Word of mouth? meaningless figures which you yourself said have little merit anyway?

Quote:
I mean really, how often have you seen a Poster's photos prefaced by a disclaimer that the Camera just doesn't / can't do the projected image justice? Well that door can swing the other way...and in the case of videos, many built-in programs in newer Phones and Cameras are specifically intended to improve on the images received.
That's true, the projection to the naked eye usually always look better because the eye will always compensate for the terribleness of projectors anyway, cameras can't do that but if they are used to compare projectors in the same room under the same conditions and settings then there is some validity in making these comparisons after all since all things were set equal. In this case, it isn't about looking for the best possible quality results, but for the one that came off with better results under the same crappy situation.

As for making crappy images look better, they can make it look brighter but that would make everything in the picture look brighter as well (and vice versa for images trying to show black levels). Thus it is easy to tell if someone is intentionally trying to improve images this way. In fact I saw someone tried to do this and the results looked very obvious.

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post #1282 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Might one of you be willing to copy/paste this conversation into its own dedicated thread instead of continuing it here for too long?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1283 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocklee View Post
But you readily dished a segment of (lower end) projectors instead of ALL of them, and you still can't explain if a cheapo Benq with higher rated lumens is better than a $5000 JVC with less lumens because nobody is going to agree with your assessment if you say that the projector with the supposedly higher lumens is better.
I never said or inferred anything remotely like that...nor was the need for me to explain anything anyway. But the entire premise that a brighter PJ, even one with lower contrast, is better for use with a <gain Gray screen than a lower lumen PJ with better contrast is entirely valid.

....except when the lower Lumen PJ is a JVC x970r w/2000 lumen matched against a BenQ 1075 w/2400 lumen.
But who in their right senses would ever make such a comparison anyway.

The rest of your comments are either wrong, arguments for argumentative sake, off topic, or just stating the obvious. Not at all why you feel the need to be that way / do all that.

Quote:
Might one of you be willing to copy/paste this conversation into its own dedicated thread instead of continuing it here for too long?
I was going to suggest that myself, but since rocklee seems to be either repeating what I post, or failing to read, absorb, and understand what I said and respond accurately, it wouldn't accomplish anything so it's all kinda useless anyway.

I'm done.

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post #1284 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 06:06 PM
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Howdy Ftoast,


I read through the fist couple pages of this thread, a lot of good info here, I was hoping you could make a quick recommendation/point me to a thread/post/video of a mix you'd recommend for my use case.

Normally I'd never ask for help and read as I think asking for hand-holding on the internet is inconsiderate of others time, but I am in a pinch between time, family obligations, cost to experiment. I have been reading and watching videos for a few months and feel even more uncertain now than ever as this is all subjective and involves compromises that can't always be seen on camera.

I am wanting to do an outdoor cinema this summer for GOT s07 for friends and folks in my neighborhood. I'd be shooting with an Optoma HD-141x, a BenQ w1070, or MAYBE if I'm lucky a BenQ HT2050. All said an done these shooters all spec out closely so I wont split hairs here.

I am looking for an ALR mix that will have a high gain. I'd like to shoot as large an image as I can ~150-200" so gain is more important than viewing angle people for the most part will not be sitting off to the the side of the screen as it will be so wide and my yard is relatively narrow.

Not looking for perfection just a screen that can function with Ambient light and not look like total garbage, GOT does have A LOT of dark scenes.

I have a different viewing setup inside so this will strictly be for outdoor use.
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post #1285 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 06:16 PM
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Outdoor

I'm planning on an outdoor screen. I have a HVLP sprayer.

During the afternoon there will be lots of ambient daylight, but not direct light.

I was thinking a 4x8 sheet with 2x2 backing and a french cleat. What spray mix is going to make the screen usable for afternoon baseball, but acceptable for movies at night?
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post #1286 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 08:04 PM
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Whoa....the last 2 posts are killin' me.

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post #1287 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Wendell View Post
I'm planning on an outdoor screen. I have a HVLP sprayer.

During the afternoon there will be lots of ambient daylight, but not direct light.

I was thinking a 4x8 sheet with 2x2 backing and a french cleat. What spray mix is going to make the screen usable for afternoon baseball, but acceptable for movies at night?
What model Projector? Set to minimum Throw?
(suggested max screen size should 85" x 48" (98" diagonal)

...and accept this as a fact. Almost any ALR screen that can do the job in "lots of ambient light" as required will be almost wholly dependent upon what the Projector will be tossing it's way. And brightness is only one important aspect. Starting out with deeper projected Blacks and a higher contrast ratio helps a lot...to the point it's just plain required.

For a high lumen output PJ to carry most of the responsibility for decent performance in high ambient outdoor light, it needs to be between 4500 to 5000 lumen...and even then the screen chosen would have to be optimal. High Contrast (deep blacks + brilliant whites) as well as at least 1.3 - 1.5 gain minimum. And somewhat Retro Reflective.

If the Screen surface / size & PJ performance can match up to meet the needed criteria for your rather insane needs , the night viewing on Low Lamp mode should be a spectacular success.

But Choose............wisely.

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post #1288 of 1346 Old 06-18-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UhltraAychDeeForK View Post
Howdy Ftoast,

I read through the fist couple pages of this thread, a lot of good info here, I was hoping you could make a quick recommendation/point me to a thread/post/video of a mix you'd recommend for my use case.

Normally I'd never ask for help and read as I think asking for hand-holding on the internet is inconsiderate of others time, but I am in a pinch between time, family obligations, cost to experiment. I have been reading and watching videos for a few months and feel even more uncertain now than ever as this is all subjective and involves compromises that can't always be seen on camera.

I am wanting to do an outdoor cinema this summer for GOT s07 for friends and folks in my neighborhood. I'd be shooting with an Optoma HD-141x, a BenQ w1070, or MAYBE if I'm lucky a BenQ HT2050. All said an done these shooters all spec out closely so I wont split hairs here.

I am looking for an ALR mix that will have a high gain. I'd like to shoot as large an image as I can ~150-200" so gain is more important than viewing angle people for the most part will not be sitting off to the the side of the screen as it will be so wide and my yard is relatively narrow.

Not looking for perfection just a screen that can function with Ambient light and not look like total garbage, GOT does have A LOT of dark scenes.

I have a different viewing setup inside so this will strictly be for outdoor use.
Lookee here:

HD-141x @ 16'-4" and a Screen of 1.5 gain = 35 fl (kinda OK...kinda.)

w1070 @ 12'-10" and a screen of 1.5 gain = 22 fl (too weak...poor Blacks. Not even a contender.)

HT2050 @ 12'-9" and a Screen of 1.5 gain = 24 fl (not enough better to matter)

All the above Screens are 150" diagonal. Anything larger while using any of the above PJs would be a useless endeavor unless you can eck out 3.0+ Gain.

200" is just not gonna be remotely possible with PJ choices at hand if any degree of exterior ambient light is present. 180"? maybe, using the 141x...but only if you really nail the screen application. ( I can provide such a mix formula...but along with such high gain you must also accept the one caveat that will come with such.....a noticeable Graininess in the Brighter projected areas..

The smaller 150" will be less apt to misbehave as it can make due with 1.5 gain.

Where do ya live that it will be anything but Twilight at 9 pm?

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post #1289 of 1346 Old 06-19-2017, 01:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UhltraAychDeeForK View Post
Howdy Ftoast,


I read through the fist couple pages of this thread, a lot of good info here, I was hoping you could make a quick recommendation/point me to a thread/post/video of a mix you'd recommend for my use case.

Normally I'd never ask for help and read as I think asking for hand-holding on the internet is inconsiderate of others time, but I am in a pinch between time, family obligations, cost to experiment. I have been reading and watching videos for a few months and feel even more uncertain now than ever as this is all subjective and involves compromises that can't always be seen on camera.

I am wanting to do an outdoor cinema this summer for GOT s07 for friends and folks in my neighborhood. I'd be shooting with an Optoma HD-141x, a BenQ w1070, or MAYBE if I'm lucky a BenQ HT2050. All said an done these shooters all spec out closely so I wont split hairs here.

I am looking for an ALR mix that will have a high gain. I'd like to shoot as large an image as I can ~150-200" so gain is more important than viewing angle people for the most part will not be sitting off to the the side of the screen as it will be so wide and my yard is relatively narrow.

Not looking for perfection just a screen that can function with Ambient light and not look like total garbage, GOT does have A LOT of dark scenes.

I have a different viewing setup inside so this will strictly be for outdoor use.
Are you looking for a sprayed mix or will it need to be rolled on?
Can you give me a rough idea what your ambient lighting will be from?

Most importantly, can you position the projector up high (about as high as the screen's top) or will this be a more typical below-screen setup?
If the projector is positioned low, any screen gain additives besides glass beads won't really work.

The two Benq projectors use accurate RGB colorwheels while the Optoma uses a non-RGB colorwheel which slightly increased its white but cuts its color brightness in HALF.
The Optoma does usually cost less, but the Benq's have twice the full-color brightness and twice the contrast in more accurate presets.
Main difference between the w1070 and newer ht2050 is that the 2050 runs quieter.

Another projector worth a look is the Epson 3100, especially if they're selling a refurbished model which is closer to $900.

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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post #1290 of 1346 Old 06-19-2017, 02:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Wendell View Post
I'm planning on an outdoor screen. I have a HVLP sprayer.

During the afternoon there will be lots of ambient daylight, but not direct light.

I was thinking a 4x8 sheet with 2x2 backing and a french cleat. What spray mix is going to make the screen usable for afternoon baseball, but acceptable for movies at night?
You'll usually need a beefy projector for outdoor daytime projection.

One of the most aggressive mixes I've sprayed which also looks great at night is:
Four 2oz tubes of FolkArt metallic Gunmetal Grey (Wal-Mart art/craft section)
8oz matte poly (I've been using Varethane water-based matte from HomeDepot)
7oz-8oz water.
This turns out like the $800 DE Abyss screen for about $20.

Have you already heard/read about duster spraying where the mix is sprayed as several fast/thin dusters which are allowed to dry between each dusting?

Easy $25 DIY black (or any color) ALR paint +$40-$50sprayer screen mix smooth/clean and very easy to learn spraying with little/no mess.
Simple $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Quick <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room "A store that sells blinds can help your picture more than a store that sells projectors many times." -bud16415
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