AVS Forum banner

Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

363K views 1K replies 174 participants last post by  MississippiMan 
#1 · (Edited)
Easy Black/Dark-Grey Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

Please read this entire first post before painting.

This is a ~400lumen projector hitting a 110" screen that is made of an $8panel covered in $30worth of paint!
A black zero-edge for less than a night out?..yes you can.

The picture above is using 1quart of RalphLauren metallic "untinted" (HomeDepot recently replaced this with a similar PPG tintable metallic) mixed with 1quart of flat/matte-black "Deep Onyx", rolled onto a lightweight 1/4" MDF panel.
But, a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 15oz flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" is my current favorite darker mix, and a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 9oz-10oz flat-grey tinted-"Seal Grey" is a brighter all-around mix that is very well behaved for most situations.

The idea behind this mix is to have a black or dark-colored light-fighting screen that can be rolled-on or sprayed-on easily and inexpensively and paired with nearly any projector you might have.
No high-gain screen works particularly well with a true short-throw projector. These fall into that category.

-Each mix will consist of only two ingredients; a water-based metallic for one, and a dark-base (flat/matte grey or black) for the other.
-The two ingredients will simply be mixed together and rolled on with a standard 1/4" nap roller (not foam), or sprayed with an inexpensive HVLP paint gun.
-Two rolled coats is typical if painting over a fairly different color, use only the flat/matte for the first coat, then make your mix and apply it as the second coat..1quart total of mix is plenty for a 4.5x8ft (110") screen.
-I'm mostly working with RalphLauren or PPG metallic (available at HomeDepot) and Rustoleum Metallic Accents (available at Lowe's), but there are many alternative metallics that can also work for anyone unable to acquire one brand or another. FolkArt and Rustoleum make excellent metallics as well, though they are only available already tinted and require different amounts to achieve the same brightness.

If you'd like to have a little freedom with your mix choices, here's a chart that might help you choose for rolling.
Just pick a ratio of metallic:flat/matte and pick the color of the flat/matte.
Mixing the darkest flat/matte+metallic at higher concentrations than 60-67% metallic is NOT recommended.

This assumes you're either using UN-TINTED RalphLauren/PPG metallic and ColorPlace flat while rolling onto a surface that's laying flat on the floor.
I've found spraying to be a bit more consistent and really easy with my simple setup and $40-$50sprayer.
-Using Rustoleum metallic Pearl allows you to use half as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG metallic.
-Using Rustoleum metallic SterlingSilver allows you to use 1/8 as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG.
-Using FolkArt metallic requires matte clear instead of paint because FolkArt now contains too little metallic/mica and too much gloss for mixing together with a small amount of paint.


Or even...

The more extreme ratios' specs are not precisely-confirmed, and uniformity as well as overall gain may not be exactly as stated.


Painting with any metallic or glossy paint will highlight imperfections in the surface you are painting. If you are painting onto something other than a smooth panel, shine a bright light at a sharp angle across your planned surface and be prepared to sand it smooth.

Here are some excellent paint-rolling instructions, courtesy of a more experienced painter than myself:

... Used a 1/4" nap roller, the longer rollers not the 3" wide ones.

I never loaded the roller up with a ton of paint so that it would be easier to do a light coat each time. I didn't use any pressure forcing the roller into the wall, just let it do its job. Speed I'd say was a slower pace. I never ended a pass in the middle of the wall. After painting a section I went back and ran the roller edge to edge to make sure I didnt leave any marks from where I started or lifted the roller from the surface.
I'd like to add the suggestion to roll ALL coats vertically, top-to-bottom, as that's what's worked best for me. It also makes it less likely to run the roller dry partway through a run because top-to-bottom is less distance than side-to-side on a screen.
I make sure to do all my rolling, loading, edge-cleaning/rolling, etc..in the same direction (up-to-down, far-to-near), as if pretending the roller itself can't even turn the other way. It's easy, and I never really thought much about it until I was going really fast on a screen and rolled back upwards instead of starting from the top again and noticed the roller nap fluffed outward like an animal pet from tail-to-head.
Going both directions didn't seem to murder the screen, but the roller looked like it would be doing terrible things so I've made a more conscious effort to keep doing things the one way.


If you're having troubles with leaving thick-ish roller edge marks behind as you paint, rolling the roller's edges at a slight angle with one end up in the air diagonally and the other on the paint-tray's "washboard" (the angled, bumpy section) to get some of the extra paint off the roller's edges can help a lot.
The build-up of extra paint along the roller's outside edges is the biggest creator of problems for rolling.

I generally load the roller up with paint, give it a roll all-the-way-around on the washboard (using only the roller's weight to push down)just to make sure I'm not dripping, and then give a quick rotation all-the-way-around on the washboard with each end of the roller (tilting the roller diagonal..one end slightly up in the air).
Then roll a row onto the screen/surface.
For the rows, the roller's own weight is all I use for pressure against the surface unless I'm consistently leaving a slight dry patch in the row in which case I'll give a very light pressure as I get to that part.

Then repeat;
Load, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a second row with a couple inches overlapping the first.

After you've rolled the second row, instead of reloading and starting a third, skip reloading for now and give a top-to-bottom pass across the two rows you've rolled so far using only the roller's weight, starting halfway off the screen's side and halfway on the first row, and then overlapping each pass by a couple inches with the next until you make it back to the point where you stopped.

Then load the roller, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a third row with a couple inches overlapping the second.
Repeat for a fourth row.

After getting your two new rows, instead of reloading, roll over the two fresh rows starting halfway on the third row and halfway on the older second row..and repeat the top-to-bottom couple inches overlapping gentle passes till you make it to your present stopping point.
Then reload, clean the edges, make a new row, and repeat the two-row process till you've finished the first coat.

The rolling on the screen after ~2rows won't fix really bad roller-marks usually, but it can help smaller imperfections and smaller roller-marks by getting the surface a little more uniform. This is done without loading the roller (right after rolling the second row), it should be fine to overlap your rows during this a couple inches..and I still have just been letting the roller's weight provide all the pressure. Not pushing unless there's a noticeable thin patch that can be subtly filled in during this last pass.
I'd imagine a more experienced roller could skip this step entirely, but it seems to help for me.

Here's a short video showing what the above-mentioned process looks like:


Let the first plain coat (or slightly thinned plain coat) dry at least 2-3hours (the longer, the better) and then repeat the whole thing using your mix (NOT thinned) for a second coat.
Usually two coats is plenty even if you're covering a tricky surface (about a quart per coat on a 110" screen). The lighter-colored mixes when painted onto a light-colored/white surface can often get away with a single coat.


Hopefully this advice will make your first rolling a success. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the earlier rolling instructions I would buy a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace(walmart brand) flat interior paint OR a ~$15 gallon of Glidden Pro/Professional(HomeDepot) flat interior paint and pour about 1quart into a separate container to mix with about 8oz of water and use that for the first coat..let it dry a few hours and then shine a light sideways onto it to check if any areas could use a quick sanding.
This thinned paint will likely run, so protect your floor and the wall wherever it could drip.

Then I would use a quart can of ~$22 RalphLauren or PPG silver tintable metallic (from HomeDepot) and have the store shake it up but not add any tint.
Then in a separate container I'd mix the whole can of metallic together with required amount of flat-grey from the gallon container (NOT anything that's been thinned with water)..and use the same rolling instructions to roll a coat using this mix.

Watch the video below the instructions too if possible. I like to make sure the roller has a good amount of paint on it for each row because I use practically no pressure while painting even if the surface is up on a wall. Even while loading the roller with paint I never pressure it into the pan..it's all just letting the roller do the work. ..'cause I'm lazy...and it helps avoid roller-marks and texture.


I've mostly been rolling paint so far, but spraying paint with a proper HVLP gun can allow you to paint onto soft/vinyl surfaces more easily as well as use higher ratios of metallic with better odds of avoiding visible texture which means you avoid shimmer/sparkle.
If you plan to spray your paint on, I suggest giving several thin "duster" coats.
I've been using a Wagner Opti-Stain which was about $40-$50, easy to clean, and creates very little overspray. I've been thinning
my PPG or Ralphlauren metallic plus ColorPlace-grey with about 15%-30% water which lets these particular paints flow smoothly but avoid pooling/running which can lead to dark spots on the surface.
I rotated the trigger-block of the Wagner OptiStain 4-5 full rotations (counter clock-wise) away from its innermost position to lessen the flow of paint, and I've been experimenting with how close and slow I can paint without the paint speckles running together and forming darker spots.
So far using faster/lighter duster coats has helped a lot without increasing the texture.

The next post (after MississippiMan's) contains pictures of a few mixes with short descriptions.

Only this (post#1) is required reading, but giving a quick look through post#3 is also recommended. The rest is completely optional and not needed.
 

Attachments

See less See more
1 5
#665 ·
I've been following this for a while and also on YouTube. I have a low lumen, cheap 720p projector. I've tried the 2 part RL to 1 part Grey Tabby but in daylight is almost unusable. With low lights, I love what it does for the black but the brightness is tamed too much for my taste. I have started mixing the GT with ultra white flat ceiling paint. I did 1:1 GT to white and was better, then I tried 2 parts white to 1 part GT and liked the results. The experimentation was made without RL so my question is...Will the RL change the shade of the paint since is almost white in color? What benefit will I get once I add the metallic to the shade mix I like?
 
#666 ·
The metallic will lighten the darker shades (especially if a lot is used..the 9:1GreyTabby is noticeably lighter than 2:1GreyTabby while 3:1GreyTabby looks about the same as 2:1), but lighter colors like you're experimenting with aren't as susceptible to change.
Your 2parts white and 1part GreyTabby shade should end up pretty similar to Icon Grey, so mixing that as as a 3parts metallic and 1part flat-grey shouldn't be a problem if you've already gotten good but dimmer results with the 2:1GreyTabby (the earlier one with metallic in your case).
If you really don't want it to end up any lighter-colored, starting with a slightly darker mix of white and grey will do the trick.
 
#668 · (Edited)
In general, the higher the ratio of metallic, the more finicky it'll be about every tiny flaw in both the surface and the paintjob...the tiny bits of texture start to show up as a million individual shiny bumps that can look glittery while small roller-lines (leftover narrow streaks from the outside edges of the roller, mostly from paint build-up on the roller) can stand out like train-tracks in a finicky mix.

At what point the ratio becomes really picky mostly depends on the color and the paint's amount of pigment.
The darker you go, the faster it'll get picky (a 1:1 metallic and GreyTabby mix is roughly as forgiving as a 3:1 metallic and IconGrey mix).
Some paints use a smaller amount of colorant/pigment in them (typically cheaper paints like the ColorPlace paints from Walmart) and these will act as if slightly higher amounts of metallic are being used compared to more opaque paints that tend to mask/cover more of the metallic because of their higher amounts of colorant.
Since I've practically exclusively been using ColorPlace paint as my flat-grey/black ingredient, there's a decent chance of other folks using higher-pigment paints and getting slightly dimmer but slightly less finicky mixes.

That said, I like how the ColorPlace works (it's thin enough to go on decently flat/smooth but thick enough to avoid running unless it's really piled on thick), its light-base is really bright, and the ~$10/gallon price is friendly when you're a cheapskate like me. :p

I've also found that at the more extreme ends of the color options you need a lot more/less metallic added to make a screen bright on-axis. You can add about 15parts metallic into flat-white and have roughly the same on-axis gain as 3parts metallic mixed with flat-black"Deep Onyx".
The same thing happens throughout the greyscale but it's a much smaller change through most of it.
...this is why I was laughing at the person earlier who somewhat randomly tried a 4:1black... that screen was likely over 1.5gain on-axis and still super dark colored, and their projector which used a somewhat long throw was keeping uniformity nicely in-line. They of course had obvious issues with texture but otherwise made a crazy bright and aggressive ALR screen.
Meanwhile a 4:1GraniteGrey mix would be much closer to 1.0gain and be considerably less apt to highlight every little imperfection..a less aggressive but better behaved screen despite the same amount of metallic.
 
#675 ·
I am new to projectors and wanted to know if this formulation would work with an e-shift (near 4k) projector that has 1800 lumen in a room filled with ambient light? I don't like the idea of a pull down or wall mounted screen because I have several playful and unpredictable cats :eek:

Thanks
ps. my dogs are small so the cats are the main concern. :)
 
#688 ·
I thought I would finally comment in this thread instead of just lurking now that I have tried one of the mixtures listed. I dropped by the big W the other day and picked up a quart of the Disney/Glidden untinted metallic and a quart of the flat seal grey. I mixed up enough (in the 3/1 ratio) to paint a piece of cardboard that I had lying around and let it dry over night. Last night I brought the dried sample in and put it on the wall in a corner of the screen and was not impressed with it at all. Overall it was just a darker surface that muted everything compared, sadly(and please don't stone me), than the off white wall we had been shooting it on over the past year. The cardboard piece that I painted on already had a layer of white, some of which I didn't paint over, and that looked better than the 3/1 seal grey. My setup is a BenQ W1070 about 12 ft away from the wall with a ~110" screen size. the screen is directly across from a large window that is covered by blackout curtains and there is no direct light hitting the screen wall. The walls are all an off white or cream color and generally we don't watch anything with the lights completely off but the LED "florescents" that are usually on are on the other side of the wall that is our screen. If you guys want me to post some pics I can take some tonight and upload them. I'm still trying to source a PVC board that is greater than 4'x8' but so far the best I have been able to find (I haven't checked Lowes/home Depot yet) is a $120 ACM? board at 5'x10'.
Anyway, that was my experience with the Seal Grey. Maybe I don't need light rejecting and should look at a white/higher gain option?
 
This post has been deleted
#689 · (Edited)
You might try hanging the cardboard sample near the screen's center (I tape a length of string to the sample and the other end to the wall above the screen).
All of these darker paint-mixes lose brightness toward the sides..more brightness is lost with darker colors and also with closer throw-ratios.
The brightness that's lost can be harder to see when using a full-size painted screen or a sample that's centered more in the middle of the existing screen.

The 3:1SealGrey should start around 1.0gain at brightest/center and taper off to roughly 0.5gain at the image's sides. The change can be hard to see or even invisible because it's so gradual on a full-size screen, but put up a bright flat/matte sample near the side or put a sample of the 3:1SG near the side of a bright flat/matte screen and the difference is a lot more stark.

On the other side of things, an ALR screen can help if you're seeing some washout happening from the light-colored walls/ceiling, BUT it won't help much/at-all against lights coming from near or behind the seats. It should help against the light that's near the screen-wall though.

Is there any chance I could talk you into showing pictures of both the sample on the side AND a straight-on shot with the sample hung at the center of the screen?

Do you feel like the darkened picture would be way too dim or are you more just surprised at seeing how much dimmer it is?

If you don't notice any washout problems with your current screen, you won't beat the side and off-axis brightness of a light-colored plain paint like you've already got.
If you DO have some washout that you'd like lessened but would prefer an overall brighter image than the 3:1SealGrey, you might prefer something much lighter-colored and a little higher-gain such as 6:1Veil (6parts metallic).

But having a bright flat/matte next to a darker ALR paintmix near the side of a screen won't let the ALRmix trick your eyes the way it can at the center or especially with a full screen.
They'll never be as bright at the sides..the main point of the grey+metallic is that it'll still be a LOT brighter than a plain flat/matte-grey of the same color, especially nearer the center of the image...as long as it isn't getting washed out by light hitting it from a position anywhere near the projector.

Thanks for taking to time to make an account and write out what you saw.
You're seeing the sample right now in a particularly un-flattering way. You may not find it so bad when the full effect is in place, BUT you may still not care for how it looks so I'd only suggest pursuing it further if you can do it cheaply enough that you won't be super bothered if it turns out to be something you don't like.
Painting directly onto a wall is nice for this reason when it's possible. The substrate is already there for $0-15 and bad results can simply be painted over.
 
#692 ·
Well thanks to my double post and this one I will be able to post links/images so I thought I should just comment about what a pain in the rear it is to get images online when you don't have it all set up already.

Also, I think I understand what you were talking about Ftoast when you mentioned that it looks better as a full screen instead of just a piece. I could tell that some of my bias is just from being so used to the blank wall for so long, I think it would look much better if I could do the whole thing.
 
#697 ·
Please tell me what "PART" means? 1 Part = 1 oz, cup, quart, or gallon?
The "part" is scalable to make the math ratios more straightforward, independent of the screen-size.
For example the 2:1GreyTabby could be 28oz metallic and 14oz flat-GreyTabby which would be about enough for a 120"-diagonal screen, OR it could be 2quarts of metallic and 1quart of flat-GreyTabby for a 150"+diagonal screen.

Usually it'll end up being a quart of metallic (which is usually 30oz instead of the full 32oz of a normal quart can) and some fraction of that in flat-grey.
Some examples:
2:1 would be 30oz metallic (the whole can) and 15oz flat-grey.
3:1 would be 30oz metallic and 10oz flat-grey.
4:1 would be 30oz and 7.5oz
5:1 is 30 and 6
...and so on..

For extra large screens you'd get two ~30oz cans of metallic (about 59oz total) and likewise double the amount of flat-grey since you're doubling the amount of metallic.
2:1 now being 59oz metallic and 30oz flat-grey.
3:1 becoming 59oz metallic and 20oz flat-grey.

Despite the relatively small amount of flat-grey used, its usually only a couple dollars extra to buy a whole gallon of inexpensive interior flat paint instead of a smaller size...and you'll likely need the extra flat-grey to give whatever you're making into a screen a quick plain grey coating which gives the mix something dark and flat/matte to stick to. I've found this to work a bit better than painting two coats of mix..instead you paint one coat using just the plain grey (consider giving it a quick sanding for the ever-important smoothness) and then paint just one coat using the mix.
This gives a cleaner-looking result AND uses half as much metallic. Win/win.
 
#699 · (Edited)
That'd be a can of metallic and 1.6oz-1.7oz of flat white.

A 110" screen should only need around 1quart of mix to cover.
A ~30oz can of either Disney/Glidden metallic (from Walmart) OR a ~30oz can of RalphLauren metallic (from HomeDepot) ..you won't have the metallic tinted at the store, but you should still have them shake all your paints before leaving.
It also helps to give your mix a nice stir-stick stirring right before pouring it into your paint-pan..this both assures it's still mixed thoroughly AND helps get rid of any stubborn bubbles. I usually shake my metallic and flat-grey/white together to mix them and this makes bubbles happen, stirring after hand-shaking is a good idea.
 
#700 ·
I too am jumping into the DIY projector screen world. I'm using a Epson 2045 that is about 9.5ft away (ceiling mounted) in a fairly light controlled room, but there is still going to be some ambient light (walls are light grey/blue). The screen I am making is going to be about 92-6" diagonal and I plan on building a frame to go around it.

What I'm wondering is what paints I should be using and I was thinking of a 1.0 gain ratio. I was having trouble identifying the recommended paints you listed, could you perhaps provide some model numbers or links to home depot for instance?

Also what suggestions are there for wrapping my frame in a black felt or something non reflective?

My construction would be MDF screen that's custom painted. 2 inch custom frame with black felt (not sure where to get this yet) wrapped around.

Thanks for your time!
 
#701 ·
Your 2040 will start around 1000lumens in its dimmest settings, so a 92"-98" screen (being about 25-30ft-square worth of image-size) will leave your darkest image at a blistering 35-40ftL...about 2X brighter than you'd generally aim for in a dark/dim room. A screen with quite a lot lower gain would likely be best.
I'd also suggest a keeping to a grey that isn't a ton lower than the peak-gain because it will still help with wall/ceiling reflections (along with the lower overall gain) and it'll keep a cleaner-looking image that's also more forgiving to paint.

A quart of the Disney/Glidden or RalphLauren metallic (untinted, but still shaken) mixed with 15oz-18oz flat-grey tinted "Seal Grey" should provide a well-behaved screen that will fight surface reflections and lower the projector's brightness closer to that of a good professional cinema.

Alternatively, you could just use plain flat-grey tinted "Veil" which wouldn't quite fight as much room reflection, but it would cost even less and be practically invincible against mistakes in both painting and the surface.

Either way:
-If you're buying from Walmart I'd suggest asking for a gallon of flat interior ColorPlace tinted to "Seal Grey". And grab a quart of Disney/Glidden metallic and have them shake both.
-If you're buying from HomeDepot I'd suggest asking for a gallon of flat interior Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide tinted to "Seal Grey". And grab a quart of RalphLauren metallic (it says silver along the top of the can but you'll be using it untinted) have the store shake them both.
-If you decide to skip the metallic and go for the lighter plain grey you can ask for a gallon of interior flat tinted "Veil" using the same inexpensive ColorPlace or Glidden Professional Ultra-Hide paints.

The ~$10 ColorPlace (Walmart) and ~$12 Glidden Professional UH (HomeDepot) paints show up at their store's respective website, but the colors are usually only available in-store because it'll be tinted right there in front of you..it's rarely available pre-made online.
 
#704 ·
FToast, first off thank you for all your work and dedication to screen paints and this tread! Great info here!

I am moving into a new house, and want to place a TV above my fireplace in the attached picture. The placement of a TV there would be awkwardly high though, and I don't want to put a TV in a corner or on a different wall. So I are looking to get a drop-down projector screen for the room that will go over the fireplace. I have been reading this thread and Tiddler's thread on painting a retractable screen (sorry I'm not allowed to post links yet). I hope to combine the two to basically use the colors shown in this thread, but with an outdoor-based paint that has more flexibility. Do you think this would work? Would the formulas need to be tweaked, or would the results be pretty much the same?

We will be using this screen both at night and during the day (preferably with lights on and windows open - the windows are north facing). My plan is to go as dark as possible with the paint (looking at the Deep Onyx color), then gain back the brightness with a 3200 white and color lumen projector (Epson EX9200). I know these formulas were made with less lumens in mind, so I was wondering if I should alter them for this kind of projector? Maybe less metallic? The screen would be 120".

Thank you!
 

Attachments

#706 ·
I have been reading this thread and Tiddler's thread on painting a retractable screen (sorry I'm not allowed to post links yet). I hope to combine the two to basically use the colors shown in this thread, but with an outdoor-based paint that has more flexibility. Do you think this would work? Would the formulas need to be tweaked, or would the results be pretty much the same?
I don't think that will change the formula too much..though I've heard the added mildew/mold resistant ingredients in exterior paints can be unhealthy indoors, and I've heard people report indoor paints working fine on rollup screens.
We will be using this screen both at night and during the day (preferably with lights on and windows open - the windows are north facing). My plan is to go as dark as possible with the paint (looking at the Deep Onyx color), then gain back the brightness with a 3200 white and color lumen projector (Epson EX9200). I know these formulas were made with less lumens in mind, so I was wondering if I should alter them for this kind of projector? Maybe less metallic? The screen would be 120".

Thank you!
Less metallic would definitely be a good plan with such a bright projector.
You could probably aim for 0.6gain and still have plenty of brightness while using the projector in EcoLamp.

I would suggest using the color "Obsidian Glass" (usually only available with Glidden paints) instead of "Deep Onyx"..it'll still be very dark, but it will help minimize sparkling or texture which people have mentioned with spraying the deepest blacks.
A 1:1 or 1.5:1 (1.5parts metallic) mix should easily keep you around 20ftL+ in the quieter presets.
 
#707 ·
I don't think that will change the formula too much..though I've heard the added mildew/mold resistant ingredients in exterior paints can be unhealthy indoors, and I've heard people report indoor paints working fine on rollup screens.
Thanks for the feedback! I will probably use the indoor paint then.

Plenty of brightness while using the projector in EcoLamp.
Do you know how to find the minimum brightness of a projector? I've been searching but can't find any info for the eco mode.

I would suggest using the color "Obsidian Glass" (usually only available with Glidden paints) instead of "Deep Onyx"..it'll still be very dark, but it will help minimize sparkling or texture which people have mentioned with spraying the deepest blacks.
A 1:1 or 1.5:1 (1.5parts metallic) mix should easily keep you around 20ftL+ in the quieter presets.
What if I used the projector on full 3200 lumen power, but reduced the metallic to get a screen gain around 0.33 gain to end up around the 20ftL+ range? Then I would have a very black screen for day use, but also with low metallic content to minimize sparkling.

Thank you so much for the response! You've already changed the direction I've been planning for the past 1+ month!
 
#708 ·
Thanks for the feedback! I will probably use the indoor paint then.



Do you know how to find the minimum brightness of a projector? I've been searching but can't find any info for the eco mode.



What if I used the projector on full 3200 lumen power, but reduced the metallic to get a screen gain around 0.33 gain to end up around the 20ftL+ range? Then I would have a very black screen for day use, but also with low metallic content to minimize sparkling.

Thank you so much for the response! You've already changed the direction I've been planning for the past 1+ month!
EcoLamp is very often about 70% as bright as Full.

As long as the louder fan-volume isn't a problem and 3D isn't important, that's another valid way to do it.
The color "Granite Grey" is around 0.35-0.37gain in flat.
 
#714 ·
Ftoast Great write up I really appreciate it. I am very new to the world of projectors and screens. I just picked up my first projector an older sanyo plv-z2000. It has a relatively low output at 1200 lumens (most reviews say 400 to 500 lumens in the real world) I am using it in a semi dedicated basement room with minimal to low light most of the time with a 100" screen. I am currently projecting on a matte white wall and the colors do not seem very vivid. Whit low lighting the problem becomes even worse. Hence why I am here looking for screen recommendations. From reading your write up and other recommendations in the posts I am thinking of trying seal grey mixed at 3:1. Just wondering if I am headed in the right direction here.
 
#715 ·
If you're okay with the image being a little darker than it is on a bright, white wall the 3:1SealGrey should be a good option.
Otherwise, if you'd prefer keeping a bit more brightness and because your lighting is low most of the time, you could also go with something lighter-colored and a little higher-gain...5:1 (5parts metallic and 1part "Granite Grey") would give a lighter-grey screen with a little over 1.0gain on-axis and even less dimming toward the sides, BUT it won't fight as much light.

If you need to keep brightness about where it is, I'd suggest 5:1GraniteGrey.
If you can stand the image getting somewhat darker, the 3:1SealGrey is a good option which can fight ambient light better.
 
#716 ·
Just to throw my 2 cents in since I've been working on one of these screens since Sunday. My projector is a ~13,000 hour Optoma HD66 (1,500 hours or so on lamp #3 ). It's projected onto a 16:10 115" screen (wall).

My first attempt was a ~2.2:1 mix of walmart paints tinted to seal gray (a truly medium gray, though most would describe it as a dark gray). The black levels were fantastic, colors and contrasts were good. The screen itself looked good. However, in ambient light my projector choked on it. It couldn't produce anywhere close to an acceptably bright picture. A higher metallic content might have helped.

Back to walmart I went and found that they have a silverscreen color. I applied a ~3.5:1 mix of silverscreen and wow, talk about brilliant white levels. Pure whites practically glowed. Blacks aren't bad either in low light. Color reproduction and black/white level contrast was very accurate with this mix. However, I was still unhappy with the ambient light performance. Everything just looked too washed out.

Last night I went to try Veil, since it's pretty close to being in between Seal Gray and Silverscreen, and the lady mixing the paint mixed up Universal Gray instead (which is in between Veil and Silverscreen). PS - Veil at walmart is Pebble Gray.

I just finished a second coat of 3:1 Universal Gray a little bit ago and so far I think I have a keeper. I haven't got to watch it in low light yet but it's performing far better in ambient light than the other two mixes I sampled. I have been taking pictures along the way so I may post them up later when I'm satisfied with the end result.
 
#717 ·
I'm going to stop at two coats of 3:1 Universal Gray. Some more notes: Walmart's silverscreen tint is considerably lighter than the Behr Silverscreen that was a long time favorite amongst DIYers. The Behr Silverscreen is actually extremely close to Universal Gray (which does seem to be a fairly uniform tint amongst brands). So ultimately I landed on an old school silverscreen with improved gain.

Strangely enough, and for the first time since I've owned the projector, a preset mode looked better than anything I was able to wrangle out of the custom settings. sRGB offered good contrast, fair bright white/deep black levels, and good color reproduction in low light. The blackboard preset offered a brighter picture with better color than anything I was able to come up with on my own in high ambient light situations.

I'm pretty happy with the end result. I have the screen trimmed out with velvet tape and more importantly, my wife is pleased with the aesthetics of it all.
 
#718 ·
I wonder what the hd66 does differently in those presets that makes the difference.

Thanks for the extensive write-up and color searching.

Once you can post pictures, can you also post some showing the room and where the worst ambient-light is coming from?
 
#719 ·
I wonder what the hd66 does differently in those presets that makes the difference.
I don't know. That's one of my few gripes about my trusty old Optoma. It doesn't show me what values it's using in the preset modes.

Pictures are hopefully attached.

The entire room is painted in a flat antique white, including the ceiling.

Pic 1: Image projected onto prepped wall
Pic 2: First coat of 1:2.2 Seal Gray (just mixed two quarts together, one 1:2.2 and the other 2.2:1 metallic/flat). Roller marks were visible
Pic 3: Second coat of 2.2:1 Seal Gray. Nice uniform paint, no obvious defects/texture. This was medium ambient light which still looked pretty decent to the camera.
Pic 4: After two coats of 3.5:1 Silver Screen. I got a little sloppy with the painting as I rushed it a little compared to the first go around and I ended up with some noticeable hot spot areas. This picture had a lot of sunlight coming in the windows to the left along with artificial lighting to the right. To my eyes it was a little better than the seal gray in similar lighting but too washed out vs. too dim.
Pic 5: First coat of 3:1 Universal Gray. Roller marks were visible as well as a few areas that didn't dry with complete coverage so I had the sparkly Silver Screen showing underneath. Not a good effect.
Pic 6: Second coat of 3:1 Universal Gray. Some roller marks left on right side of screen but they aren't noticeable unless you're watching from an angle. I'm content to stop here as it's providing good day and night viewing. Lots of artificial light present in this picture.
 

Attachments

#721 ·
I believe most/all of these should be available through the Deluxe, Glidden or CIL brand. In the first post with the blue-ish chart there are numbers next to the colors which some places may use instead of the names..like "Seal Grey" might be known as "OONN 25/000" instead. The OONN stays the same and the /000 at the end means it's a neutral shade while the 25/ is the paint's brightness or gain (before adding metallic).
It's a super useful naming system that I wish had more popularity.

The metallic can be harder to find. A good alternative can be finding a water-based pearl or a craftstore which carries the FolkArt metallic paints (they have a nice pearl AND a grey, silver and black metallic which can be used or mixes together) and then mix those with an appropriate color and amount of flat-grey.
The pearl generally works well with the ratios shown but needs a slightly darker color to balance for the pearl's added white tint.
The metallic silver/grey/blacks often need a slightly higher amount of flat added or a smaller amount of metallic used because they tend to have a higher concentration of metallic in those brands.

James_of_AZ has been finding different pearl metallics for folks to use in different regions also.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...paint-silver-grey-screen-mix-epson-3600e.html
So that's worth a look either for finding a pearl to use here OR for an entire mix idea as he's been going darker with higher gain recently.
 
#722 ·
Ftoast, thank you for sharing this with everyone.


Have you thought about doing a double sided screen? A thin board with your dark paint on one side and white screen paint on the back. If it is thin enough, it would be easy to take down and switch around with two people. Then you get a perfect daytime screen with the gray, and when you want a extra crisp bright picture for night time movie showings go with the white.


I am pondering the idea myself. A little ingenuity would have to be used for a mounting system, but I really think it would be perfect for a lot of homes. Albeit slightly inconvenient to switch around, but worth it.
 
#723 ·
The idea has definitely crossed my mind. It might work making something that flips similarly to an old chalkboard where there's an outer frame following the actual screen/frame along either the top or bottom and halfway up/down the sides and attaching with a single bolt in the middle of the side so the whole thing can be pulled out from the wall and rotated along those bolts and pushed back to the wall by one person.

Basically just two arms (one on each side) bolted to the middle of the screen's side-frame. Then another attachment, like a pull-through dowell could attach each arm to the screen at a different point to keep it steady while pulling away from the wall. You'd loose something at the top, pull the whole thing down like an oven door, loose the secondary arm attachments to allow the screen to rotate, re-fasten the secondary arm attachments to hold the entire thing solid again, then close it like an oven-door and re-attach to the top.
Something like that perhaps.

I love the idea of strong magnetic attachment points for the top and possible secondary arm points..though I'm not sure that's really workable.
 
#724 · (Edited)
I'm messing around with the wagner+detail and trying to see how dark yet high-gain things go without issues.
The $50 gun does a really nice job of putting down an even layer without hardly any overspray and basically no mess, but spraying seems to make the entire screen look several shades lighter than I'm used to. The current tester is a 5:1GreyMetal which should be even darker-colored than the 5:1ObsidianGlass panel in one of the outdoor videos, instead I think it's closer to the 3:1GreyTabby. Similarly weird, at that high of a ratio it should be nearing 1.5gain (if it was rolled) but it seems much closer to 1.0gain on-axis.
The worst part is that using the dark color and high metallic still seems to be giving it a grainy appearance even though it isn't giving the same darkness and gain the color and ratio normally would.
I'll have to do some side-by-side comparisons between this sprayed 5:1GreyMetal and the older 5:1ObsidianGlass. Maybe give the sprayed sample a light sanding and one more coat and then try rolling the same mix on half the panel...see if the paint is getting old or weird or something.

Right now I love/hate spraying. :/

EDIT:
Thank goodness I was mostly wrong. It turns out the gain IS closer to where it should be (higher than it appeared) and the gain coupled with that particular room's lighting was largely responsible for making it look lighter-colored.
Also, my first coat went on with too much texture and hopefully I'll be able to blame that for most/all the grainy appearance.
 
#725 ·
thank you for your great thread, Ftoast.

i'm from China and know nothing about paint..
i want to try "a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 12oz-15oz flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" and i'm a little comfused:confused:
1. there is a chart for mix choice in your first post ,where every color is flat / matte. While your choice is flat-grey only , does that mean matte color is not an option. Because in delux China web there are only two matte types for grey tebbby OONN 16/000:crying: and delux seems to be the only brand you mentioned and also available in China, so can i use this matte type instead?

2. "UN-TINTED RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden metallic OR a shade of FolkArt/Rustoleum coincides with your flat/matte choice"

does un-tinted means no color ,transparent?
why should use RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden un-tinted while FolkArt/Rustoleum "a shade concides with my flat/matte choice?" (may be my dictionary provide me with wrong explaination, seems transparent color has no shades:confused::confused: or here shade means different?)
if i choose grey tebby which shades should i use?
For brands other than RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden FolkArt/Rustoleum ,is there any spec or some ingrediant table (lilke:metal percentage) to make sure my choice of metallic paint functions as close as yours.
 
#726 ·
1. there is a chart for mix choice in your first post ,where every color is flat / matte. While your choice is flat-grey only , does that mean matte color is not an option. Because in delux China web there are only two matte types for grey tebbby OONN 16/000:crying: and delux seems to be the only brand you mentioned and also available in China, so can i use this matte type instead?
In the USA "matte" is usually slightly more glossy than "flat", but not always.
In many other places I've heard "matte" is the same as "flat" and the label matte is used instead of flat.
It sounds like your Delux matte will be the same as my Glidden flat.
Even if they are different, the difference will be very small.
Grey Tabby matte (OONN 16/000) or the slightly lighter Seal Grey matte (OONN 25/000) should work well.
2. "UN-TINTED RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden metallic OR a shade of FolkArt/Rustoleum coincides with your flat/matte choice"

does un-tinted means no color ,transparent?
why should use RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden un-tinted while FolkArt/Rustoleum "a shade concides with my flat/matte choice?" (may be my dictionary provide me with wrong explaination, seems transparent color has no shades:confused::confused: or here shade means different?)
if i choose grey tebby which shades should i use?
For brands other than RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden FolkArt/Rustoleum ,is there any spec or some ingrediant table (lilke:metal percentage) to make sure my choice of metallic paint functions as close as yours.
Yes, the untinted RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden will become almost transparent if not mixed with flat/matte-color.
This makes the RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden easier to mix into whatever color you want.
Because the FolkArt/Rustoleum can only be found already colored, you need to balance its color with the flat/matte color to make a specific color.
There are three or four different black/grey/white colors of those metallic and a few different ratios of metallic:matte which makes a lot of testing needed to find how to make all the different colors. I've only tested a couple, so I can only guess.

The FolksArt/Rustoleum is more concentrated, so a 1:1mix (1part FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1part matte-grey) ends up with about the same gain or higher than a 2parts RalphLauren/DisneyGlidden and 1part matte-grey mix.

Which colors of FolkArt/Rustoleum can you get easily?
The 1part SterlingSilver FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1part flat/matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) mix I painted turned out a bit lighter and higher-gain.
Using 1part FolkArt/Rustoleum and 1.3parts matte-"Grey Metal" (OONN 10/000) should make a darker color and lower gain which will look more like the 2:1GreyTabby screen.

Sorry for writing so long. It's probably a pain to translate my rambling.
 
Top