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Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

363K views 1K replies 174 participants last post by  MississippiMan 
#1 · (Edited)
Easy Black/Dark-Grey Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

Please read this entire first post before painting.

This is a ~400lumen projector hitting a 110" screen that is made of an $8panel covered in $30worth of paint!
A black zero-edge for less than a night out?..yes you can.

The picture above is using 1quart of RalphLauren metallic "untinted" (HomeDepot recently replaced this with a similar PPG tintable metallic) mixed with 1quart of flat/matte-black "Deep Onyx", rolled onto a lightweight 1/4" MDF panel.
But, a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 15oz flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" is my current favorite darker mix, and a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 9oz-10oz flat-grey tinted-"Seal Grey" is a brighter all-around mix that is very well behaved for most situations.

The idea behind this mix is to have a black or dark-colored light-fighting screen that can be rolled-on or sprayed-on easily and inexpensively and paired with nearly any projector you might have.
No high-gain screen works particularly well with a true short-throw projector. These fall into that category.

-Each mix will consist of only two ingredients; a water-based metallic for one, and a dark-base (flat/matte grey or black) for the other.
-The two ingredients will simply be mixed together and rolled on with a standard 1/4" nap roller (not foam), or sprayed with an inexpensive HVLP paint gun.
-Two rolled coats is typical if painting over a fairly different color, use only the flat/matte for the first coat, then make your mix and apply it as the second coat..1quart total of mix is plenty for a 4.5x8ft (110") screen.
-I'm mostly working with RalphLauren or PPG metallic (available at HomeDepot) and Rustoleum Metallic Accents (available at Lowe's), but there are many alternative metallics that can also work for anyone unable to acquire one brand or another. FolkArt and Rustoleum make excellent metallics as well, though they are only available already tinted and require different amounts to achieve the same brightness.

If you'd like to have a little freedom with your mix choices, here's a chart that might help you choose for rolling.
Just pick a ratio of metallic:flat/matte and pick the color of the flat/matte.
Mixing the darkest flat/matte+metallic at higher concentrations than 60-67% metallic is NOT recommended.

This assumes you're either using UN-TINTED RalphLauren/PPG metallic and ColorPlace flat while rolling onto a surface that's laying flat on the floor.
I've found spraying to be a bit more consistent and really easy with my simple setup and $40-$50sprayer.
-Using Rustoleum metallic Pearl allows you to use half as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG metallic.
-Using Rustoleum metallic SterlingSilver allows you to use 1/8 as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG.
-Using FolkArt metallic requires matte clear instead of paint because FolkArt now contains too little metallic/mica and too much gloss for mixing together with a small amount of paint.


Or even...

The more extreme ratios' specs are not precisely-confirmed, and uniformity as well as overall gain may not be exactly as stated.


Painting with any metallic or glossy paint will highlight imperfections in the surface you are painting. If you are painting onto something other than a smooth panel, shine a bright light at a sharp angle across your planned surface and be prepared to sand it smooth.

Here are some excellent paint-rolling instructions, courtesy of a more experienced painter than myself:

... Used a 1/4" nap roller, the longer rollers not the 3" wide ones.

I never loaded the roller up with a ton of paint so that it would be easier to do a light coat each time. I didn't use any pressure forcing the roller into the wall, just let it do its job. Speed I'd say was a slower pace. I never ended a pass in the middle of the wall. After painting a section I went back and ran the roller edge to edge to make sure I didnt leave any marks from where I started or lifted the roller from the surface.
I'd like to add the suggestion to roll ALL coats vertically, top-to-bottom, as that's what's worked best for me. It also makes it less likely to run the roller dry partway through a run because top-to-bottom is less distance than side-to-side on a screen.
I make sure to do all my rolling, loading, edge-cleaning/rolling, etc..in the same direction (up-to-down, far-to-near), as if pretending the roller itself can't even turn the other way. It's easy, and I never really thought much about it until I was going really fast on a screen and rolled back upwards instead of starting from the top again and noticed the roller nap fluffed outward like an animal pet from tail-to-head.
Going both directions didn't seem to murder the screen, but the roller looked like it would be doing terrible things so I've made a more conscious effort to keep doing things the one way.


If you're having troubles with leaving thick-ish roller edge marks behind as you paint, rolling the roller's edges at a slight angle with one end up in the air diagonally and the other on the paint-tray's "washboard" (the angled, bumpy section) to get some of the extra paint off the roller's edges can help a lot.
The build-up of extra paint along the roller's outside edges is the biggest creator of problems for rolling.

I generally load the roller up with paint, give it a roll all-the-way-around on the washboard (using only the roller's weight to push down)just to make sure I'm not dripping, and then give a quick rotation all-the-way-around on the washboard with each end of the roller (tilting the roller diagonal..one end slightly up in the air).
Then roll a row onto the screen/surface.
For the rows, the roller's own weight is all I use for pressure against the surface unless I'm consistently leaving a slight dry patch in the row in which case I'll give a very light pressure as I get to that part.

Then repeat;
Load, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a second row with a couple inches overlapping the first.

After you've rolled the second row, instead of reloading and starting a third, skip reloading for now and give a top-to-bottom pass across the two rows you've rolled so far using only the roller's weight, starting halfway off the screen's side and halfway on the first row, and then overlapping each pass by a couple inches with the next until you make it back to the point where you stopped.

Then load the roller, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a third row with a couple inches overlapping the second.
Repeat for a fourth row.

After getting your two new rows, instead of reloading, roll over the two fresh rows starting halfway on the third row and halfway on the older second row..and repeat the top-to-bottom couple inches overlapping gentle passes till you make it to your present stopping point.
Then reload, clean the edges, make a new row, and repeat the two-row process till you've finished the first coat.

The rolling on the screen after ~2rows won't fix really bad roller-marks usually, but it can help smaller imperfections and smaller roller-marks by getting the surface a little more uniform. This is done without loading the roller (right after rolling the second row), it should be fine to overlap your rows during this a couple inches..and I still have just been letting the roller's weight provide all the pressure. Not pushing unless there's a noticeable thin patch that can be subtly filled in during this last pass.
I'd imagine a more experienced roller could skip this step entirely, but it seems to help for me.

Here's a short video showing what the above-mentioned process looks like:


Let the first plain coat (or slightly thinned plain coat) dry at least 2-3hours (the longer, the better) and then repeat the whole thing using your mix (NOT thinned) for a second coat.
Usually two coats is plenty even if you're covering a tricky surface (about a quart per coat on a 110" screen). The lighter-colored mixes when painted onto a light-colored/white surface can often get away with a single coat.


Hopefully this advice will make your first rolling a success. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the earlier rolling instructions I would buy a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace(walmart brand) flat interior paint OR a ~$15 gallon of Glidden Pro/Professional(HomeDepot) flat interior paint and pour about 1quart into a separate container to mix with about 8oz of water and use that for the first coat..let it dry a few hours and then shine a light sideways onto it to check if any areas could use a quick sanding.
This thinned paint will likely run, so protect your floor and the wall wherever it could drip.

Then I would use a quart can of ~$22 RalphLauren or PPG silver tintable metallic (from HomeDepot) and have the store shake it up but not add any tint.
Then in a separate container I'd mix the whole can of metallic together with required amount of flat-grey from the gallon container (NOT anything that's been thinned with water)..and use the same rolling instructions to roll a coat using this mix.

Watch the video below the instructions too if possible. I like to make sure the roller has a good amount of paint on it for each row because I use practically no pressure while painting even if the surface is up on a wall. Even while loading the roller with paint I never pressure it into the pan..it's all just letting the roller do the work. ..'cause I'm lazy...and it helps avoid roller-marks and texture.


I've mostly been rolling paint so far, but spraying paint with a proper HVLP gun can allow you to paint onto soft/vinyl surfaces more easily as well as use higher ratios of metallic with better odds of avoiding visible texture which means you avoid shimmer/sparkle.
If you plan to spray your paint on, I suggest giving several thin "duster" coats.
I've been using a Wagner Opti-Stain which was about $40-$50, easy to clean, and creates very little overspray. I've been thinning
my PPG or Ralphlauren metallic plus ColorPlace-grey with about 15%-30% water which lets these particular paints flow smoothly but avoid pooling/running which can lead to dark spots on the surface.
I rotated the trigger-block of the Wagner OptiStain 4-5 full rotations (counter clock-wise) away from its innermost position to lessen the flow of paint, and I've been experimenting with how close and slow I can paint without the paint speckles running together and forming darker spots.
So far using faster/lighter duster coats has helped a lot without increasing the texture.

The next post (after MississippiMan's) contains pictures of a few mixes with short descriptions.

Only this (post#1) is required reading, but giving a quick look through post#3 is also recommended. The rest is completely optional and not needed.
 

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#731 ·
little confused after reading all these pages. looking to do a painted screen in basement theater.

please give me the latests suggested mixes. here is shot of the wall it is going on.

Thank you ..
Will the room be kept pretty bright or fairly dark during most viewing?

About what size screen are you aiming to have?

What projector are you using?

Are you a big 3D fan or a casual 3D-user at most?
 
#732 ·
room will be dark most of time.. occasional sports event with low light away from screen.. photo below gives better idea.. screen size is about 150" projector is sony 4k . casual 3d user . third pic down shows other half of basement which is pool table . ping pong ect.


thank you
 

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#733 · (Edited)
room will be dark most of time.. occasional sports event with low light away from screen.. photo below gives better idea.. screen size is about 150" projector is sony 4k . casual 3d user . third pic down shows other half of basement which is pool table . ping pong ect.

thank you
You've got a lot of things in your favor; the room situation is pretty good and that Sony starts around 1050lm/1350lumens (eco-lamp/full-lamp) and hardly loses any of that brightness when mounted farther back..so a 150"/67ft-square screen will be plenty bright at 1.0-1.2gain even in eco-lamp.

Between the occasional 3D movie, the mostly dark viewing, and the want for a 4K projector to look as clean/clear as possible..I'd recommend starting with a bright neutral white.

The white I've been using has been:
-"ColorPlace brand, flat, interior, light-base, with 4ounces/4Y of KX/white-pigment added to the gallon at the store.

This gives a very bright natural white that is perfectly clear and artifact free while also being very forgiving to paint..and it was about $10 for the gallon at walmart. You can ask for the above quoted part and they should know what you want.

Paint this onto the screen area (likely needs two coats over the black) and try it both in the dark and with some sports with the lights you'd like on..leaving the projector in Eco-lamp. KEEP THE UNUSED LEFTOVERS from the gallon...you might need a couple ounces later.

The paint should work great in the dark and well with some lights on, but if you would prefer more light-rejection during sports you'll want a mix painted over this smooth white surface anyway and you'll use the leftovers too..so starting with the flat interior light-base with 4extra ounces of KX added to the gallon will be needed either way.

While you're at walmart grabbing a gallon of the above mentioned paint, ask if they have the Disney/Glidden magnificent metallic nearby..it's one of the better and easier to use inexpensive locally available metallics.
If you try the plain screen and decide you'd prefer a little extra light-fighting ability, get two quarts of the DisneyGlidden metallic and mix them both together along with 2.5oz-3oz of your bright white.
This should give a very bright screen that will also fight some of the sideways incoming light from the game section of the room.

Will you be rolling or spraying the paint?
 
#735 ·
He was probably talking about a pre-made white..a "grab-and-go" can of white paint which often has a bit of either warm or cool tint and a touch of off-white to help it hide dirt.

The light-base, on the other hand, is used for a starting platform for all light colors so it needs to be pretty neutral and bright to start while also having a little extra room in the can for additional tint..many times if you ask for something white to be color-matched they'll almost always use light-base..now you'll simply be taking that already bright and neutral base and adding some extra KX/titanium-dioxide (one of the brightest and most neutral white pigments available).

HomeDepot sells RalphLauren tintable metallic for about $22/quart or $50/gallon that is a good alternative to the DisneyGlidden metallic if you prefer HomeDepot over Walmart.

I'd still suggest starting with the simple flat tintable light-base and seeing if you have any problems with that.
If you decide you need more ALR, painting over the smoothed white surface will be better in your case than painting over the black wall would've been anyway.
 
#737 ·
thanks for all he input.. I have a contrators account at HD. I am there almost every other day so.. easier to do than walmart. IS there a specific code or name for the RL tintable. I tried to look it up on line and it comes up simply as the silvers..

Thanks again..
It's the same metallic tintable base being used, but online HomeDepot only sells it with tint already added to it (which will make it too dark in your case). In the store they sell it only "untinted" and allow you to choose the tint OR simply buy it without any.

Just a heads-up, there's a tintable silver base and a tintable gold base...you'll be using the silver base (which is actually more transparent than anything if you don't mix it with something or tint it).
Buying a whole gallon is almost the same price as buying two quarts, so that may be preferable if you decide to experiment or want a backup amount in case something goes wrong.
 
#739 · (Edited)
You didn't just roll plain tintable-metallic over the black wall did you?
Mixing the tintable metallic with a tiny bit of flat-white/light-base and putting it over a smoothed white surface helps it look cleaner and less sparkly.

Though, if you did end up doing something different than recommend and like the results I'll gladly steal any information you're willing to share. :D

Can you list what in all you did so far to the screen/wall?

Also, unless you're painting over a very different-colored surface, two coats isn't necessary needed and likely won't change much..so if you aren't happy with how it looks it can be better to tweak the mix of the next coat instead of painting a second coat of the same thing. If that's still an option.
 
#741 ·
yep.. painted it right over the existing brown. wall my mistake..

ok so I will prime the wall white and try this again.

I used tintable RL with 3 KXL tint added to the quart that I got. Shown on the right side of the photo. on the left side of the photo is straight RL white .
Wait, don't paint anything yet.

When you say tintable RL with 3KXL do you mean RL light-base or RL silver metallic?

By 3KXL do you mean 3/384'th or 3oz (it'll say on the sticker they put on top of the can)?
 
#743 ·
There's two weird things about that; those cans are usually only meant to hold about 1.5oz extra and can sometimes be overflowing by 3oz (you likely got lucky there..sometimes it gets messy), and HomeDepot doesn't often let you choose your own tint for those (I'm betting you're on good terms with them or maybe they didn't realize, lol).

Anyway, I meant to mix 3oz of flat-white/light-base PAINT with the metallic..not 3oz of concentrated pigment which is more like mixing an entire quart of white paint into the metallic. I also said to mix 3oz of flat-lightbase with 2quarts of metallic (figuring 1quart wouldn't quite be enough to coat the 150" screen) so that'd be 1.5oz of flat-LightBase added to 1quart of RL-metallic (no other tint added to the metallic...just some paint from another can).

Also, the above ratios are assuming you'll be using tintable flat-LightBase with 1ounce of KXL added to the quart OR 4ounces of extra KXL added to the gallon.

HOWEVER, if your RLmetallic used on the one side of the screen is looking too sparkly when projected on, the above suggested mix will look worse..it'll be higher-gain and a little darker off-white/light-grey.

If I'm being confusing, don't hesitate to ask for a clearer answer..I tend to ramble.
If you can project onto your current split-screen..how does each half look in the dark and in the lighting you'll be using it with?
 
#745 ·
ok I think I got it.
thanks
If at all possible, let me know how the two current versions you already have look when projected on in the two lighting conditions you'll be using.

If the plain white looks good with brighter/sports content with the limited lights you'd normally use while watching with company over, the white will be nicer in many ways than something using metallic.

If you want quite a lot more light-fighting ability for sports, a slightly darker mix might work better than the 3oz-white into 2quarts untinted RLmetallic..because that mix is very light-grey and relies more on high peak-gain to fight light.

It'll be better to know what you do and don't like with the current paint before trying something else. That way you'll know which direction to go..if darker is better or would be worse.
 
#747 ·
Lots of information in this thread.
1st time projector buyer here (got one a week ago).
I am still putting the image on my grey wall, but the image is washed out during the day. No direct light on the projector or screen, just ambient light. I do have a few questions, if any of you would be kind enough to answer :)

Do I have to paint the wall or I buy a cheap projector screen (120") and paint over that?

What mix of paint will be the best for a lit up living room? I will use the projector as an everyday living room tv. When I put the image on the grey wall, its not a pretty site during the day. I assume I need a black screen.

Thank God I didn't drop $650 on an Elite Screen & saw this thread.
 
#748 ·
I think painting directly onto the wall tends to be cheaper and can be easier at the larger sizes over 100"-110". Painting onto a smooth screen works too as long as it's either tight enough not to sag as the roller leans on it a little or has something firm behind it to hold it still...spraying works fine without support holding the screen firm, but I'm guessing you'll be rolling?

What projector will you be using? Are you a big 3D fan?
That and the size are the biggest deciders for what gain to aim for.

For deciding what color to go with, darker fights more light but makes a bigger risk of the screen looking textured or dimmer while lighter looks cleaner and will be brighter off-axis bit will be less aggressive against light.

Do you have any idea what color the wall is right now? Would you prefer a brighter image than the wall is giving?
 
#751 · (Edited)
Bottom line: my church needs an ALR screen badly as the video is almost impossible to read (mostly slides of hymn lyrics) due to sunlight flooding in from some glass block windows on a side wall.

Even at night the contrast isn't what it should be because of lighting in the room.

What paint mixture would give me the best visibility and the best gain?

The curves on the first page don't make sense to me as the "recommended" paint for high ambient light seems to have the least gain, or perhaps I'm just reading it incorrectly.

The screen is almost never used in a darkened room, and is typically viewed from quite a distance away.

The first thumbnail shows the image at its absolute best - dark outside and a minimum of light in the room; most Sundays it looks like the second. :(
 

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#752 ·
I agree an ALR screen could help some, and the presentation could help maybe even more. The idea I understand is to be inspirational with the sunrise backgrounds and such but all that really brings the ANSI contrast to its worst. White letters on a light yellow background on a light colored screen with lots of ambient light is stacking the deck against you.

The problem you will have with a gain ALR screen will be your wide seating locations. If you get the center looking better the side seats will suffer.

How many lumens is the projector? What is the screen size? What is the current screen? What settings or presets are you using of the projectors?
 
#753 ·
Very informative thread.

Can you please suggest paint for a dedicated(windowless) media room?

I have Epson 8350 Projector at about 16' from the wall, projecting an image of about 159" diagonally (139" x 77").

Image is currently projected on the plain wall(textured and light beige color). I have noticed that from my seating distance of about 17' I don't see any problems with the texture on the wall when the image is projected and hence don't see a huge need to sand the wall smooth. Color reproduction can improve significantly if I paint the wall though.

Thanks a lot in advance.
 
#755 · (Edited)
Basically the second photo shows what it looks like now - any improvement over that is what I'm going for.

The projector is an older ceiling-mounted 4:3 NEC NP1150 with a rated output of 3750 lumens and at this point we've got it maxed out for brightness and contrast while still throwing an image that looks something like the original on the monitor of the PC driving it. We have no need for 16:9 as the screen is usually used for slides and the occasional photo, not usually for video and even then letterboxed 4:3 is fine.

The team making the slides has chosen some better combinations of background and text color off and on, but even with good high contrast selections it's not much more legible than what I posted. I suspect brightness isn't really as important as contrast.

The current screen is a normal white Da-Lite; I haven't measured it to find its size but am guessing 10' - 11' diagonal extrapolating from the size of the sound absorbent panels adjacent to it.

If an ALR screen wouldn't help that would be great to know, too.

I don't think a brighter projector is in the budget anytime soon but if that's the only solution, we may just have to deal with people struggling to read the screen for a while, at least until 105" TVs become affordable. ;-)
 
#756 ·
I would suggest you try an experiment and get back to us.

Find or make something about the shade of gray shown in the picture below labeled P2 if you paint a piece of cardboard that will work. Nail it to a pole or something so you can lean it up on the screen and see what the image looks like. Ideally a neutral gray about that shade should help. Make sure any paint you get is flat sheen.
 

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#757 ·
Hi Ftoast, sorry to bother you again.also forgive my confusing English...

i painted a screen last week, the first coat was good ,while the second coat was a disaster.
I definitely picked a wrong metallic paint.the one I used is a smell paint and very likely not water-based.the paint contains aluminum dust but it's a anti-rust paint. the two paints don't mix so my screen ended up with a lot of silver spots.

last week I was in a hurry and yesterday I did a little search for my next screen.it's frustrating.
when I type metallic paint in China's biggest online market. results are mostly spray paint to repair car scratch. like when I search "metallic" in rustoleum website.
when I type water-based metallic paint , there are very little results,and only for garage kit,it's 6 dollars 35ml,too costy.

do you have any photo of the metallic paint, I think the Chinese name of metallic paint is not directly translated from it's English name, so maybe when I show the paint sellers some photos, they will know what I am looking for.

also I want to ask some questions to find the right product
1.metallic paint really contains metal?
2. are car paints metallic paint .i think metallic paint s are used to increase gain. some Chinese seller call their car paint" metal glitter paint" ,which sounds a similar function paint.
3.are we talking about varnish paint .
4.any product on Amazon to buy , if not allowed to post here,please pm me.
 
#758 ·
do you have any photo of the metallic paint,
Ralph Lauren tintable silver metallic:



Disney / Glidden tintable metallic:



Rustoleum Sterling Silver metallic:



Folk Art Sterling Silver metallic:


also I want to ask some questions to find the right product
1.metallic paint really contains metal?
All the metallics I've used contain mica. The ones that contain metal are often too reflective and look sparkly or glittery when mixed with dark paint.

2. are car paints metallic paint .i think metallic paint s are used to increase gain. some Chinese seller call their car paint" metal glitter paint" ,which sounds a similar function paint.
Many car paints have metallic (either metal or mica). But they are usually oil-base instead of water-base and they can be really thin and runny.

3.are we talking about varnish paint .
Varnish is usually a clear top layer to protect the surface underneath. The only Varnish metallic I'm seeing is fingernail paints...so I'd say no.

4.any product on Amazon to buy , if not allowed to post here,please pm me.
http://www.amazon.com/RALPH-LAUREN-SILVER-METALLICS-Finish/dp/B000GLHWAO
http://www.amazon.com/Rust-Oleum-Metallic-253534-Decorative-32-Ounce/dp/B003EELMY2
http://www.amazon.com/Folk-Art-662-Metallic-Sterling/dp/B003W0A90G
 
#761 ·
ok again I want to say thank you for the help. ok.. so I went with the below paint RL brilliant white and did NOT add any metallic. I this point just looking to get some good contrast and pic on the screen.. before I did the RL I was throwing the picture on a wall with a beige paint .. tan eggshell.. this was the wall in the basement before the build.. I had to say.. it produced a great pic.. almost better than what the RL brilliant white is giving me.. I think this sounds crazy.. but the pic on the screen with the RL brilliant white is almost washed out at higher brightness. have to keep the sony at around 55 % brightness to have good contrast.
contrast seemed better with the tan/beige eggshell paint from behre. does this sound crazy or make any sense at all?
 
#763 ·
Does the Sony look a little too bright even using Eco-Lamp on the plain bright-white?

How do sports look with the usual lights at the usual levels you'd have them at...washed-out or surprisingly decent?

The beige eggshell would have a bit of directional gain from the gloss and darker-than-white surface, so that's not weird at all.

Depending on how bad that washout from those lights is on sports, it sounds like Glidden "Veil" or the darker Glidden "Granite Grey" in a 5:1 mix (6oz of Glidden flat-grey paint mixed with a quart-can -29.5oz- of "untinted" DisneyGlidden or RalphLauren metallic....or 12oz flat-grey mixed with 2cans of metallic) would keep you at the present brightness but deepen your lights-on blacks a decent ways compared to the beige and give a more balanced color accuracy than the beige as well.

Sorry I keep flip-flopping on this, I just don't want to leave you with something too dim or too grainy.
 
#766 ·
ftoast thanks for the up date... if I do not care about ambient light.. just want good contrast in a dark light controlled room... the basement... what would you recommend.. I might just put up a flat screen for normal light viewing and leave the big screen for movies only... yep I am flipping back and forth.. thanks for the help


I am going to try glidden flat gray with the RL metallic.. so what would the ration be.. thanks
 
#768 ·
ok tried the glidden veil with metallic 5:1 ratio. I noticed the blacks are a little darker but overall the white is still the best.. gray screen makes whites looke gray white.. going back to the white.. question is would adding metallic to the white add anything. . on a side note the picture looks best at 50%.
 
#770 ·
The original suggestion was a high-gain metallic+white mix. It deepens blacks a little (like the 5:1Veil, but less) and it keeps the brightest overall picture of all the metallic mixes..brighter than white for most seats with a pretty ideal mounting/seating position while far off-axis brightness is dimmer than plain white and brighter than other metallic mixes.
That'd be something like the previous 1quart of metallic plus 1.5oz of flat-white paint OR 2quarts of metallic and 3oz of flat-white paint.
..paint, not KX tint/pigment by the way.

Is the 5:1Veil dimmer than your like, or just making you aware that it's grey when the image is partly on it and partly on a plain white? If you're still painting half the screen instead of the whole thing, it can break the effect of the screen's gain to some extent..testing the grey+metallic will look best either as a whole screen or with the grey at the center rather than the side.

You guys have convinced me to try this! But I need a recommendation on the mixture.
I just purchased the Epson 5030 and my original screen location plans have changed and I want to try a painted screen on the actual wall.

This is going in the basement which has daylight windows. I don't want a completely dark room when entertaining for sporting events, but will control lights for movie watching. Viewing will be mixed: sports, movies (occasional 3D) and possibly some light PS4 gaming. I am going with a 120" screen (I think), viewing from 13' and throw is about 14-14.5'.

Currently I have Sherwin Williams Gateway Gray paint on the wall and the picture was surprisingly good (but it was not great by any means) even with light coming in from the sides and bottom of the blinds on the window that is just inches from, and shines light on, the screen. I will treat this window and the other windows will not directly affect the screen.
So, what would be the recommended mixture?
Normally with that projector and use and size I'd recommend a pretty high gain (around 1.3) so you can get a bright image with Eco-Lamp and keep it bright for 3D, but if the plain grey already looks pretty nice and you want to, a more modest gain (around or below 1.0) should keep similar brightness as what you have while allowing your screen-color to go a bit darker while still keeping a clean image.

For the higher-gain lighter grey I'd suggest a 6:1 "Granite Grey".
For something closer to your current brightness (or darker depending on the position) and a darker color that can fight more light I'd suggest the 3:1SealGrey....the "1" in either case being the flat-grey.
 
#769 ·
You guys have convinced me to try this! But I need a recommendation on the mixture.
I just purchased the Epson 5030 and my original screen location plans have changed and I want to try a painted screen on the actual wall.

This is going in the basement which has daylight windows. I don't want a completely dark room when entertaining for sporting events, but will control lights for movie watching. Viewing will be mixed: sports, movies (occasional 3D) and possibly some light PS4 gaming. I am going with a 120" screen (I think), viewing from 13' and throw is about 14-14.5'.

Currently I have Sherwin Williams Gateway Gray paint on the wall and the picture was surprisingly good (but it was not great by any means) even with light coming in from the sides and bottom of the blinds on the window that is just inches from, and shines light on, the screen. I will treat this window and the other windows will not directly affect the screen.
So, what would be the recommended mixture?
 
#773 ·
thought I would post some pics.. These are taken with and with out some ambient light from overhead 4 inch cans ect. the paint on the right is a mix 5:1 Glidden veil gray with RL metallic. one in middle is simply a beige that use to be on the walls and looks pretty good for plain old wall. one on left is the RL brilliant white only. In my effort to try and get more contrast by trying the glidden and RL lost the nice white.. even with the few lights on the white looks better. going back to all white.


Is it better to use just a straight white.. in situation where ambient light is no concern. Do we want to add metallic to the white if the room is dark enough.. in other words don't really need a gain.. just more contrast. would be nice..


thanks
 

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#775 ·
When you are testing white against gray you cant calibrate your projector for both at the same time. Gray takes more lumens. If you have the brightness set correct for the gray the white will look washed out, if the white is correct the whites in the gray will look too dark. Not to mention when you have two different levels of brightness the brighter one will mess up your perception of contrast on the other. In fact it messes up your camera in the same way. :)
 
#774 ·
When the room is dark enough, the only benefit the special mixes really can give is the ability to lessen reflections from light-colored walls/ceiling where the image's own light can reflect back and wash itself out.

The ALR mixes will be brighter when put in the center spot (until you move far enough to the side yourself).
Earlier it sounded like you were saying the plain white was a little too bright, but it sounds like you prefer that brightness..but I could be misunderstanding what you said before.

When you ask about getting more contrast, do you feel like the image is getting some washout or are you wishing the projector itself offered higher contrast?

For a screen to fight washout without losing brightness/whites it'll need added gain.
 
#776 ·
ok here is what I was saying. when I turn the brightness up on the projector it washes out the contrast. even when contrast is all the way at 100 percent. I turn the brightness down to 50%. and bam there is the contrast back.. does that make sense.. I am talking about the white screen with no ambient light.. Bud16415. I understand what you are saying.. but I have to say... the gray was not looking that good to me.. the whites just were not true white. I guess the more I paint the more I do understand the trade offs now between a gray and white screen.. now I am looking to turn the brightness up on my projector and keep the contrast all the while using a white screen... looking for the paint that would help that request.. thanks again all.
 
#777 ·
In what way does turning Brightness up washout the contrast..is it causing near-white to crush into white (over-exposing highlights), or is it making the projector raise its own blacks up to more grey, or is it causing more reflections around the room which end up washing the image again?

I don't really subscribe to the calibrate for each type of screen philosophy in this case since the aim was for the grey screen to have enough gain to appear as bright as the white (at least on-axis) and what I suggested ended up falling short.

There are at least three things that can help the grey screen if you're interested and one thing that'll help any screen.
That any-screen thing would be painting the ceiling sections near the screen in darker colors which will help avoid probably the biggest cause of reflections besides the somewhat glossy beams.

The three things that can help the grey screen appear less dull are:
1. Paint the center section instead of the side..that's where most of the brightness will be.
2. View it by itself without the white segment, the white segment having a brighter spot at the center will also break most of the illusion and make you more aware of the grey screen's non-uniform brightness..without the illusion being broken the eyes are very forgiving of subtle non-uniformity.
3. Add more metallic. Something like a 9:1 ratio instead of the 5:1 may hit the brightness you want...maybe.
 
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