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Easy Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

363K views 1K replies 174 participants last post by  MississippiMan 
#1 · (Edited)
Easy Black/Dark-Grey Ambient Light Rejecting Screen Paint

Please read this entire first post before painting.

This is a ~400lumen projector hitting a 110" screen that is made of an $8panel covered in $30worth of paint!
A black zero-edge for less than a night out?..yes you can.

The picture above is using 1quart of RalphLauren metallic "untinted" (HomeDepot recently replaced this with a similar PPG tintable metallic) mixed with 1quart of flat/matte-black "Deep Onyx", rolled onto a lightweight 1/4" MDF panel.
But, a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 15oz flat-grey tinted "Grey Tabby" is my current favorite darker mix, and a quart of metallic-"untinted" mixed with 9oz-10oz flat-grey tinted-"Seal Grey" is a brighter all-around mix that is very well behaved for most situations.

The idea behind this mix is to have a black or dark-colored light-fighting screen that can be rolled-on or sprayed-on easily and inexpensively and paired with nearly any projector you might have.
No high-gain screen works particularly well with a true short-throw projector. These fall into that category.

-Each mix will consist of only two ingredients; a water-based metallic for one, and a dark-base (flat/matte grey or black) for the other.
-The two ingredients will simply be mixed together and rolled on with a standard 1/4" nap roller (not foam), or sprayed with an inexpensive HVLP paint gun.
-Two rolled coats is typical if painting over a fairly different color, use only the flat/matte for the first coat, then make your mix and apply it as the second coat..1quart total of mix is plenty for a 4.5x8ft (110") screen.
-I'm mostly working with RalphLauren or PPG metallic (available at HomeDepot) and Rustoleum Metallic Accents (available at Lowe's), but there are many alternative metallics that can also work for anyone unable to acquire one brand or another. FolkArt and Rustoleum make excellent metallics as well, though they are only available already tinted and require different amounts to achieve the same brightness.

If you'd like to have a little freedom with your mix choices, here's a chart that might help you choose for rolling.
Just pick a ratio of metallic:flat/matte and pick the color of the flat/matte.
Mixing the darkest flat/matte+metallic at higher concentrations than 60-67% metallic is NOT recommended.

This assumes you're either using UN-TINTED RalphLauren/PPG metallic and ColorPlace flat while rolling onto a surface that's laying flat on the floor.
I've found spraying to be a bit more consistent and really easy with my simple setup and $40-$50sprayer.
-Using Rustoleum metallic Pearl allows you to use half as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG metallic.
-Using Rustoleum metallic SterlingSilver allows you to use 1/8 as much metallic compared to RalphLauren or PPG.
-Using FolkArt metallic requires matte clear instead of paint because FolkArt now contains too little metallic/mica and too much gloss for mixing together with a small amount of paint.


Or even...

The more extreme ratios' specs are not precisely-confirmed, and uniformity as well as overall gain may not be exactly as stated.


Painting with any metallic or glossy paint will highlight imperfections in the surface you are painting. If you are painting onto something other than a smooth panel, shine a bright light at a sharp angle across your planned surface and be prepared to sand it smooth.

Here are some excellent paint-rolling instructions, courtesy of a more experienced painter than myself:

... Used a 1/4" nap roller, the longer rollers not the 3" wide ones.

I never loaded the roller up with a ton of paint so that it would be easier to do a light coat each time. I didn't use any pressure forcing the roller into the wall, just let it do its job. Speed I'd say was a slower pace. I never ended a pass in the middle of the wall. After painting a section I went back and ran the roller edge to edge to make sure I didnt leave any marks from where I started or lifted the roller from the surface.
I'd like to add the suggestion to roll ALL coats vertically, top-to-bottom, as that's what's worked best for me. It also makes it less likely to run the roller dry partway through a run because top-to-bottom is less distance than side-to-side on a screen.
I make sure to do all my rolling, loading, edge-cleaning/rolling, etc..in the same direction (up-to-down, far-to-near), as if pretending the roller itself can't even turn the other way. It's easy, and I never really thought much about it until I was going really fast on a screen and rolled back upwards instead of starting from the top again and noticed the roller nap fluffed outward like an animal pet from tail-to-head.
Going both directions didn't seem to murder the screen, but the roller looked like it would be doing terrible things so I've made a more conscious effort to keep doing things the one way.


If you're having troubles with leaving thick-ish roller edge marks behind as you paint, rolling the roller's edges at a slight angle with one end up in the air diagonally and the other on the paint-tray's "washboard" (the angled, bumpy section) to get some of the extra paint off the roller's edges can help a lot.
The build-up of extra paint along the roller's outside edges is the biggest creator of problems for rolling.

I generally load the roller up with paint, give it a roll all-the-way-around on the washboard (using only the roller's weight to push down)just to make sure I'm not dripping, and then give a quick rotation all-the-way-around on the washboard with each end of the roller (tilting the roller diagonal..one end slightly up in the air).
Then roll a row onto the screen/surface.
For the rows, the roller's own weight is all I use for pressure against the surface unless I'm consistently leaving a slight dry patch in the row in which case I'll give a very light pressure as I get to that part.

Then repeat;
Load, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a second row with a couple inches overlapping the first.

After you've rolled the second row, instead of reloading and starting a third, skip reloading for now and give a top-to-bottom pass across the two rows you've rolled so far using only the roller's weight, starting halfway off the screen's side and halfway on the first row, and then overlapping each pass by a couple inches with the next until you make it back to the point where you stopped.

Then load the roller, roll the edges on the washboard, roll a third row with a couple inches overlapping the second.
Repeat for a fourth row.

After getting your two new rows, instead of reloading, roll over the two fresh rows starting halfway on the third row and halfway on the older second row..and repeat the top-to-bottom couple inches overlapping gentle passes till you make it to your present stopping point.
Then reload, clean the edges, make a new row, and repeat the two-row process till you've finished the first coat.

The rolling on the screen after ~2rows won't fix really bad roller-marks usually, but it can help smaller imperfections and smaller roller-marks by getting the surface a little more uniform. This is done without loading the roller (right after rolling the second row), it should be fine to overlap your rows during this a couple inches..and I still have just been letting the roller's weight provide all the pressure. Not pushing unless there's a noticeable thin patch that can be subtly filled in during this last pass.
I'd imagine a more experienced roller could skip this step entirely, but it seems to help for me.

Here's a short video showing what the above-mentioned process looks like:


Let the first plain coat (or slightly thinned plain coat) dry at least 2-3hours (the longer, the better) and then repeat the whole thing using your mix (NOT thinned) for a second coat.
Usually two coats is plenty even if you're covering a tricky surface (about a quart per coat on a 110" screen). The lighter-colored mixes when painted onto a light-colored/white surface can often get away with a single coat.


Hopefully this advice will make your first rolling a success. :)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the earlier rolling instructions I would buy a ~$10 gallon of ColorPlace(walmart brand) flat interior paint OR a ~$15 gallon of Glidden Pro/Professional(HomeDepot) flat interior paint and pour about 1quart into a separate container to mix with about 8oz of water and use that for the first coat..let it dry a few hours and then shine a light sideways onto it to check if any areas could use a quick sanding.
This thinned paint will likely run, so protect your floor and the wall wherever it could drip.

Then I would use a quart can of ~$22 RalphLauren or PPG silver tintable metallic (from HomeDepot) and have the store shake it up but not add any tint.
Then in a separate container I'd mix the whole can of metallic together with required amount of flat-grey from the gallon container (NOT anything that's been thinned with water)..and use the same rolling instructions to roll a coat using this mix.

Watch the video below the instructions too if possible. I like to make sure the roller has a good amount of paint on it for each row because I use practically no pressure while painting even if the surface is up on a wall. Even while loading the roller with paint I never pressure it into the pan..it's all just letting the roller do the work. ..'cause I'm lazy...and it helps avoid roller-marks and texture.


I've mostly been rolling paint so far, but spraying paint with a proper HVLP gun can allow you to paint onto soft/vinyl surfaces more easily as well as use higher ratios of metallic with better odds of avoiding visible texture which means you avoid shimmer/sparkle.
If you plan to spray your paint on, I suggest giving several thin "duster" coats.
I've been using a Wagner Opti-Stain which was about $40-$50, easy to clean, and creates very little overspray. I've been thinning
my PPG or Ralphlauren metallic plus ColorPlace-grey with about 15%-30% water which lets these particular paints flow smoothly but avoid pooling/running which can lead to dark spots on the surface.
I rotated the trigger-block of the Wagner OptiStain 4-5 full rotations (counter clock-wise) away from its innermost position to lessen the flow of paint, and I've been experimenting with how close and slow I can paint without the paint speckles running together and forming darker spots.
So far using faster/lighter duster coats has helped a lot without increasing the texture.

The next post (after MississippiMan's) contains pictures of a few mixes with short descriptions.

Only this (post#1) is required reading, but giving a quick look through post#3 is also recommended. The rest is completely optional and not needed.
 

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#778 ·
I agree if you want to do a side by side between a wide dispersion 1.0 gain unity white and a gray with a much tighter dispersion that has been raised back up to a 1.0 gain the comparison would be much more fair samples then should be hung together sharing the common center of the screen as the higher gain gray could show a warm spot as well.

I didn’t feel from looking at the photos the two samples were at the same gain.

I have projected vivid whites off a coal black wide dispersion screen with a gain of about .1, so it is a myth that gray is in any way going to darken whites into a gray white when properly illuminated.
 
#810 ·
I have projected vivid whites off a coal black wide dispersion screen with a gain of about .1, so it is a myth that gray is in any way going to darken whites into a gray white when properly illuminated.
Very true. Screens don't have varying absorptive properties depending on the amount of light they are illuminated with. As long as the projector can throw enough light even a negative gain screen can look great.
The problem is stray light. If the level is high then a darker screen can improve perceived black level.
 
#779 ·
Thank you for the feed back guys... let me explain further yes.. the brightness when I turn it up starts to washout. I would say overexposing highlights. .. I will try and post some pics later to show what I mean.


ok.. so another question.. what is the benefit, in a light controlled room, of doing a screen that is not white.. but rather gray..


thanks
 
#780 ·
It sounds like you're leaving the contrast setting too high while turning up the brightness setting.
Normally you'll want to adjust the brightness setting using a simple test pattern so it'll be juuuust high enough that you aren't crushing dark-greys/shadows into black but not any higher (or else you'll end up needlessly lightening your deepest black)..you set it so you can see shadows details but aren't turning the blacks grey.
Then you'll want to set contrast juuuust low enough %using a similar test pattern) that you aren't crushing highlights into white but no lower (or else you'll be needlessly dimming the projector)..you set it so you can see bright details without turning them white when they should be a super light grey on a white background or something.

In a light-controlled room (where reflections are minimized by dark-colored surfaces) the grey screen can be used to tame an overly bright projector..but you're using a large enough screen that few projectors would ever be overly bright.
 
#781 ·
hello again ftoast,
i will change my projector with lg pf1000u.as you know this is a short throw projector.my question is can i use painted screen for short throw projector.according to my opinion normal projector hitting directly to the screen so light go back to the source and we are usually there but short throw projector hitting from the ground to screen than goes to ceiling so reftection will be reduce if you are not watching from the ceiling hopefully i've explained.does the brightness decrease?
 
#782 ·
You explained it very well.
You are right that the screen will not work well with the short-throw. It will be dimmer than a longer-throw and mostly directed at the ceiling AND probably noticeably brighter toward the bottom/center and dimmer at the sides.

A plain flat/matte grey is usually the best choice for the pf1000.
What screen-size do you think you'll be using?
 
#784 · (Edited)
If you don't plan on using it for 3D a plain grey as dark as "Granite Grey" "OONN 37/000" should be able to reach 15ftL at that size.
If you are planning to use 3D or generally prefer a brighter image a lighter plain grey like "Veil" or "Pebble Grey" "OONN 53/000" should give over 20ftL at that size.

If you prefer to use a screen with metallic the pf1000u is not the right projector. Not only would it be extra bad table-mounted, but it would still be bad ceiling-mounted because it's am Ultra Short-Throw which means the Ambient Light Rejecting screen would fight the projector more than it would fight the lights because the projector is at an even steeper angle than most of the lights.

Is this going in the same room as before or a new spot?
Why do you want to get rid of your other projector?
If you want an LED projector and don't need 3D, the pf1500 is a regular-throw version of the pf1000u except without 3D...plus it costs quite a lot less.

I haven't personally tested any Ultra ShortThrow yet, but even my slightly shorter throw p300 looks a little different than the longer LG I have and the beam angle differences are exactly like you've explained earlier where light gets directed the opposite direction of the projector AND the very wide beam of the short-throw makes the center still come back to the viewers while the sides bounce mostly toward the left/right walls.
 
#785 ·
I'm going to use it in my new house.there are no enough distance and here there is no place to put the projector.i dont like 3d and I don't think I'd use.I guess I need to wait a little more for something better model for short throw or can u advise any short throw.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#791 ·
I took some pictures and video of a few different ALR screens sharing the same image in the daylight.

The top/left is a SilverFire v2.5 (current as of January 2016).
The top/right is an 18:1white (18parts untinted Disney/Glidden OR RalphLauren metallic and 1part ColorPlace flat Light-Base) that's not very suited to daylight, but very bright.
The bottom/left is a 9:1GreyTabby which is showing remarkable similarity to the $100-SilverFire lvl-12 mixture despite being a simple 2-ingredient $25 mix.
The bottom/right is a 5:1 ObsidianGlass which is darker and a bit more aggressive against the daylight.




Hotspotting/warmspotting isn't visible in-person..the camera makes it look much worse than it really is...and the camera kept adding a weird purple tint to the blue image for some reason, which also wasn't there in-person.

 

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#792 ·
Nothing to apologize for. Your lack of anythinfg resembling a videophile or calibration expert is is evident.
What you lack in positivity you at least make up for in passion.

I'll try to tighten up my technique and fill in some knowledge gaps.
 
#797 ·
The best choice of screen type will depend on a few things:
What projector do you plan to use and about what image-size are you aiming for?
Are you a big 3D fan or a casual user at best?
How bad would you describe your lighting situation in the room during the time you'll be viewing, and can it easily be improved by curtains and more controllable lights (dimmers, spot-bulbs, cheap easy things like that) and possibly darker-colored walls/ceiling using paint or fabric?

The better setup you can make the room, the less work the screen will need to help with. A less aggressive screen in a better room will almost always look cleaner and overall better than a more aggressive screen in a worse room.

The main tricky ingredient to find is a suitable (and affordable) water-based metallic...most/all the other ingredients in practically every paint-mix can be found locally or easily substituted with a local version.

I've heard from others that the metallic used in BlackWidow (Createx AAA-fine) is available in Australia:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/994372-black-widow.html

It is also worth checking to see if James_of_AZ made an Australian version of his mix:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-d...int-silver-grey-screen-mix-epson-3600e-5.html

If you can find a local water-based metallic (silver or pearl or tintable, etc) you'll be 90% of the way there.

If you can treat the room well enough, you might not even feel the need for a metallic at all.
 
#794 ·
@far3ll,

You're on the right thread. I'm sure Floast will definitely get started in the right direction.

@floast

I honestly apologize for my recent lack of positiveness towards you. Not in keeping at all.with desire to be helpful. We all are passionate about the DIY designs and advice we bring to avs's DIY forum. I don't go on anyone else's thread and knock their DIY solution. Manufacturers charging 4 grand for a 100" screen...yes. The efforts of our DIY community...no. That's why I stear clear from comparisons of each other work or getting on others threads to recommend my own over another diy'er. I see u giving the same courtesy to James. You are extremely loving to help people get into and love this medium. Reminds me of me...10 years ago. Don't stop.
 
#796 ·
Thanks for that pb, I was getting a bit concerned the last few posts from you guys.
I've been here a long time, as you have, and have seen the wars.
Not pretty.

I wanna Thank both of you for being civil, after all, we are all trying to help each other in the end.

Thanks A Lot Guys.

m
 
#802 ·
Hello I am new here and I have few questions for Ftoast

1) If I understand it well, you mix metallic color and some shade of grey color with 3:1 ratio and paint a flat wall with it? Right?

2) I am from Czech republic and I would like to test it with my LG PA70G. I cannot find same products in Czech republic as you mention here. So what kind of metallic color should I buy?

I can buy this one:
http://www.jub.eu/interior-paints-a...reatment-interior-wall-surfaces/decor-glamour
I supose that I should buy Silver version right?

Alternatives:
http://www.kittfort.cz/products_4_75.htm
http://www.zahrada-kh.cz/Kovovy-lesk-3L-ZLATO-STARE-ZLATO-MED-STRIBRO-d2543.htm?tab=description
http://www.barvy-sanmarco.cz/all-portfolio-list/easymetal/

3) Which kind of gray or black you use to mix it with metallic one?

Thanks for the help!
 
#803 ·
Yes, a silver-metallic or white-pearl would be the best of the colored metallic options.
Usually the silver is stronger than what I've been using, so a 1.5:1 or 2:1 ratio is safer than a 3:1 using silver. White-Pearl tends to work well at 3:1 ratio.
Make sure the metallic/pearl is water-based and NOT oil-based.

I mix with flat/matte, interior, wall-paint. Usually by the CIL or Delux or Glidden brand. For the untinted metallic, the color "Seal Grey" (OONN 25/000) has been working well, but for the Silver or Pearl metallic a slightly darker grey paint might be needed to get the same color of screen because the silver/pearl can lighten the overall color.

Since I haven't tried these it's a lot of guessing on my part, so be warned it's kind of risky.
 
#811 ·
Hey Ftoast, remember me? I was the one who asked about the ratio in mixes and I was the one who asked you about the 18:1 white mix ratio. Well if you don't, let me tell you what I have been doing.

I tried the black onyx mix but that failed. I put it on a spread of Carl's blackout cloth and all I saw was paint lines. It lit up pretty well but my painting was horrible. I believe I was too anxious. Plus I needed a flatter surface to roll paint on. Therefore I started thinking and devised something new.

I came up with the idea of having a black vinyl canvas second surface (600 Denier pvc fabric black) and white stretchable mesh first surface. I wondered if it would work. I figured it would but had to experiment.

Here are some pictures of how it looks, How it looks with an image in the daytime, with an image at night with the lights on and with them off. I have a Sanyo PLV-Z5 projector with 1100 lumens and a 10,000:1 contrast ratio. The blacks are BLACK but almost too much at night. I may add another level of white mesh or get another projector with more lumens; which I leaning toward anyway. What do you think?

I'm doing this in between painting. I think I may spray paint next.
 

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#812 ·
Does the black fabric have a bit of gloss/shine to it which adds some brightness to the picture along with the white mesh?

The second daytime picture looks kinda dim but the screen looks nicely dark-colored and the last two pictures look much brighter..the last one turned out particularly nice.
If the second layer of mesh doesn't make the screen too light-colored for your needs and gets the extra brightness you need that'll be a pretty cool combination.
If you're really liking the black vinyl and white mesh, post it and details of what you used and how you held it all together in the Non-Painted Black Screen thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/110-diy-screen-section/1485908-diy-black-screen-tests-40.html
so folks there can follow along (they likely won't be looking in here if they're trying to find a non-paint screen).
 
#813 ·
Yes by the way. The Denier fabric that I used did have a reflectivenside that almost behaved like reflective tape. The other side was a light absorbing layer of fabric.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to share my idea as soon as I get time. I'll keep ya posted when I do the extra layer of mesh.
 
#814 ·
Yes by the way. The Denier fabric that I used did have a reflectivenside that almost behaved like reflective tape. The other side was a light absorbing layer of fabric.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm going to share my idea as soon as I get time. I'll keep ya posted when I do the extra layer of mesh.
 
#816 · (Edited)
Found the whiteboard ya'll were mentioning!! http://www.homedepot.com/p/EUCATILE...d-Thrifty-White-Tile-Board-HDDPTW48/205995949

spent the last 7+ hours reading from page one and am now up to speed. looks like i may end up selling my brand new 100" white 1.0 gain screen

Ftoast i dont know what keeps you motivated, but i greatly appreciate everything (even the random madness that is your method)

I havent decided how dark i want to go. i have likely settled on getting a BenQ W1070 to replace a prefect working order 1080 60" LG plasma. I do have ambient light (diffused through diffusing blinds on the right entering from nearly 90 degrees and at about 25' away" and low ambient light from the left about 5' away but much more controlled with blinds and dark curtains. I will want the best night time viewing experience and daytime experience so i suppose the best comprimise at rejecting ambient light while maintaining good whites and color vibrancy. Considering doing that led method it seems to help the eyes adjust for even greater contrast. (staring at this forum for 7 hours makes you realize what the color blue does to whites) every time i looked at my email it looked almost orange so the high blue outline of the led may trick the eyes a bit into seeing the whites as whiter when they are blackened (blueish) definitely food for thought.

i will not be purchasing anything until after the superbowl (hoping it drops pj prices, ya'll would know better than i if this has any bearing)

anyway any suggestions is great i put pictures of my ambient light in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...00-usd-msrp/2318833-best-projector-700-a.html

any tips and tricks would be great. i was also thinking of "renting" a sprayer how well does that work with this application? i believe i read that it actually applies better when using a roller?

Also any tips suggestions for a flawless smooth joining of multiple pieces of mdf? how to smooth joints and not notice any blemishes?

I ask a lot i know, thanks for any attempts at fueling my curiosity.
 
#817 ·
Found the whiteboard ya'll were mentioning!! http://www.homedepot.com/p/EUCATILE...d-Thrifty-White-Tile-Board-HDDPTW48/205995949

spent the last 7+ hours reading from page one and am now up to speed. looks like i may end up selling my brand new 100" white 1.0 gain screen

i will not be purchasing anything until after the superbowl (hoping it drops pj prices, ya'll would know better than i if this has any bearing)

anyway any suggestions is great i put pictures of my ambient light in this thread http://www.avsforum.com/forum/68-di...00-usd-msrp/2318833-best-projector-700-a.html

any tips and tricks would be great. i was also thinking of "renting" a sprayer how well does that work with this application? i believe i read that it actually applies better when using a roller?

Also any tips suggestions for a flawless smooth joining of multiple pieces of mdf? how to smooth joints and not notice any blemishes?

I ask a lot i know, thanks for any attempts at fueling my curiosity.
Looks like the same panel..I wish they still sold the other one I originally used just because it was more hardy and difficult to break. The thrifty-white can be snapped over your knee if you use enough force (not bad, but the stronger stuff was even nicer).

You're crazy for reading this whole thing. Your eyes must be ready to bleed from all that straight monitor reading.

A lot of the sales on the budget models have been running on and off like they're ignoring events, but some might be specifically ending after the superbowl so keep an eye out.
I don't think any of the good Benq models have been on sale too recently. The ht2050 (quieter running w1070) seems to be holding steady at $750-800, but I was happy to see it's available at both Bestbuy and Walmart for the standard $799. I love places which allow hassle-free returns to a physical store, so BB and Wally appeal to me.

With that left window decently curtained/blinded and the other window at such a 90degree angle, I didn't realize at first look how well-off your room is.
Are there any major lights beside or behind the seats that you'll have to worry about?

The main benefit to rolling (besides the price) is that it's much faster..my main problems with spraying have been my own lack of patience where I try to lay down too much paint and end up getting runs just like MississippiMan/PBmaxx warns. If you aren't trying to go ridiculous black/dark and you can take the time needed to make several light duster coats rather than trying to do it all in one or two coats, spraying works great. It also lets you avoid any chance of roller-marks..which is nice though minimized with some techniques and a more subtle mix.
If you can actually rent or borrow an electric (not air-compressor tank) HVLP sprayer that's made for thinner paint rather than unthinned latex for a pretty low price, that might be a neat way to go.

For joining panels the most important part is you'll want both joining edges sanded a little lower so your seams don't bulge out anywhere. Feather outward from the filled gap and sand it smooth by hand. Because the panel is so smooth and the compound so easy to sand, a really light/fine paper on the block can still work really well while not accidentally taking any gouges out. Even a gentle touch removes layers of compound pretty fast. Checking it with a sideways angled light may be a little harder than normal with part of the material being shiny and the filled area being matte, but you'll still need to check it for final mistakes that need filling or sanding before you paint.

I think I ended up with more texture from the first coat of plain flat-grey than I had from the sanded compound..so that's why I suggest thinning that first coat (which will likely run but at least dry much smoother) since sanding paint goes a LOT slower than sanding lightweight drywall compound.

Of course this paint texture can also be less of a problem if you decide to spray.

What screen-size are you aiming for?
Are you a big 3D fan or casual/occasional user at best?
 
#819 ·
AH HAH i just remembered what i was going to ask. I dont like the idea personally of doing a base coat of "grey" for instance then using a single top coat as the silver.... is that for your personal reasons or performance? I am OCD and know how to paint with brush/sponge/roller/sprayer/air brush is there adverse reasons to not do it all in solid 2:1 Grey instead of doing 1/2 coats grey and then doing only 1 top coat of 2:1? I would prefer uniformity which i would think would be greater achieved with multiple coats of the metalic top paint.. and just prime the bottom with a good sticky primer.
 
#822 ·
Edit: i havent settled on a color on the N scale just yet was just using 2:1 grey as an example in the previous post :D
thanks for the pre-warning.

AH HAH i just remembered what i was going to ask. I dont like the idea personally of doing a base coat of "grey" for instance then using a single top coat as the silver.... is that for your personal reasons or performance? I am OCD and know how to paint with brush/sponge/roller/sprayer/air brush is there adverse reasons to not do it all in solid 2:1 Grey instead of doing 1/2 coats grey and then doing only 1 top coat of 2:1? I would prefer uniformity which i would think would be greater achieved with multiple coats of the metalic top paint.. and just prime the bottom with a good sticky primer.
I suggest the base coat of plain grey because almost anything will need two coats (smooth panels need a first coat for the second coat to have something decent to stick to, drywall compound and bare wood need a first coat so the next one doesn't soak in too, lighter/darker/patterned surfaces need a first coat to get the color closer) and after trying it both ways I realized the plain grey VS a first coat of mix didn't seem to make a performance difference BUT the plain grey would be something you already had on hand for the mix and using it would mean using half as much metallic overall...cutting costs almost in half.
The plain grey is also a little darker-colored before it's mixed which makes seeing bare spots as you're painting the second coat easier sometimes.

Otherwise, if you prefer to use mix for all the coats and are okay with the increased cost of needing more metallic to do it, that works too.

Primer, especially if you can get it tinted grey, will totally work in place of the plain grey coat..I've just been using plain flat-grey instead of actual primer since I haven't run into any problems and it costs less
 
#821 ·
Ok shoot me now, but i am curious have you ever tried layered spray paint? if you know what you are doing when spraying you can get amazing results just wondering how this might work since you cant mix ahead of time was thinking like matt black base with silver metal over then matt black again then silver metal again then perhaps a matt poly could prolly do a test for under 15 bucks. I dont currently have a projector, tried a cheapo LED and i didnt like the results even having manually calibrating (not very easy on the chinese model i had) so i sent it back. would perhaps need some fine wetsanding inbetween applications depending on the quality of paint you buy (some has a better mist while others can spray blobs within the mist)
 
#823 ·
I've tried messing around a little with layers but not while spraying and I totally admit having no real idea/education on what I'm doing.

I tend to think of layering for an ALR screen working like tank armor..the juicy stuff is underneath a layer of protection where something hitting it at an angle needs to go through a larger amount of armor to get through while a straight shot has less armor to pass through..in this case the juicy insides being a light or particularly reflective base-coat and the armor being a darker thicker layer that may or may not also have some reflective bits to add some extra gain.
Lots of things from ancient manufacturer screens and frosts/poly's over mirrors on up to the older Mississippi Mudd painted screens used variations of this kind of layering.

Not sure if that helps you with your plan/theory of layering or just adds more things beside it..but, yeah.

I really like the idea of making a painted screen that's overly reflective initially and then tamed down with a top-layer of poly or something similarly protective. I'd love to have a screen that can be scrubbed clean.
..even though I've never had any reason to clean a screen besides a light dusting, the idea still appeals to my "just in case" side.
 
#825 ·
I remember trying to layer that same sparkle/metalflake look onto a speaker-cab...it didn't turn out bad in the ugly sense, but I definitely failed to properly nail the really bold 3Dimensional effect you get from properly spacing the metallic from the base (also chose colors that were too similar to create a really noticeable effect). Then again many of those same things can make a screen too visible and distracting..so maybe I should try hitting that box with a projected image. !
 
#828 ·
Attaching to the frame first can help make sure the panel doesn't warp/curl as the paint dries or cures (which happened to both of my large panels while I thought I could just attach them to a frame later).

If you're rolling it can be tricky starting and ending your rows off the edge of the screen once the frame is attached, so it might be best if rolling to attach as soon as the paint is dry while being mindful not to damage the surface.

If you're spraying it should be overall easier/safer to attach the frame first..especially since it lets you hang the screen up somewhere rather than leaning it precariously.
 
#830 ·
finally

so ive been reading this thread for a few weeks. i got a small portable projector for christmas. Its an SPro2 led projector with a 5 inch screen with android built in. I have Kodi on every piece of tech i own and figured this lil guy would be perfect for on the go stuff. I even got a lil portable table top roll out white screen to go with it. THEN i found this thread! This lil projector is only capable of 200 lumens max, and all the walls in my house are a Tan'ish color. When i first projected an image to this tan colored wall, both myself and the wife were like WOW that looks pretty good! So we had been doing that for about a month.

After finding this thread a couple weeks ago i was like HEY, i can do this! So i started pricing stuff out on amazon, lowes, home depot, ace true value and every other hardware store that came to mind. I figure i need to test before going with what i will put up as a final piece, so starting from NO materials at all i spent around $320 to get going I bought everything from 4 28x48 mdf whiteboards, 2 quarts of flat white, a gallon of RL metallic (mica), 1 quart of grey tabby(4 8oz testers), 1 gallon of universal grey, and 1 gallon of granite grey. i also had to by rollers and roller covers. disposable drop cloths, paint mixer cups, stir sticks, disposable paint liners, frog tape ect ect ect. i bought enough to be able to do 8 test and starting from nothing. so thats why it cost so much. im fine with that.

I initially did flat white v the unpainted shine of the whiteboard. the first thing we noticed is wow how this tan wall is stealing the color lol. a week later i did flat white v 3:1 metallic/grey tabby. probably wasnt a good idea comparing it to flat white on the same board, but overall it was too dark. it turned the whites to grey, and the sparklies were very annoying. So i did some more reading up and thinking for my next test. I decided to do 2:1 granite grey/metallic v 2:1 metallic/granite grey. i think i have found my winner.

The Granite grey is noticably lighter than the grey tabby, and i see NO sparklies on this board at all. i put all the boards up together to compare the white levels, and the grey tabby turned the white grey straight up. The white was white of course, but the 2:1 mixes fell to a very respectable white level with the 2:1 metallic being a little whiter than the 2:1 granite grey. at nite in pitch black they all look great. with the lights on theres almost no picture on the flat white(as expected). With the lights on i get a very watchable picture from the granite grey, since the 2:1 granite is a half shade darker than the 2:1 metallic it gives me a deeper black and the color pops better and it seems to fight the light just a tiny bit better.

I spent all day yesterday watching this 2:1 board. lights on its a watchable picture, lights off it looks awesome. I put it up over my window in the garage, so during the day the light comes thru the opening from behind and it makes it look like one of those screens with the led lights behind them. This coupled with the lights off actually made the picture contrast a lot better, the black seemed blacker. So with that being said, i will add the led light to my final build.

In thie end.....long winded first post lol......i will go with the 2:1 granite grey/metallic mix with a piece of 4x8 mdf whiteboard with led ambiant light backing cut to size. Oh and i will roll on, i used to be a painter by profession so im not bad with a roller :D and yes STAY FAR AWAY FROM FOAM ROLLERS!!! lol get the shortest nap u can find, and on your finishing strokes make sure the open end is trailing the roller end and u should come out with a smooth wall with no roll marks. Ill post some pics from my phone in a lil bit
 
#831 · (Edited)
In thie end.....long winded first post lol......i will go with the 2:1 granite grey/metallic mix with a piece of 4x8 mdf whiteboard with led ambiant light backing cut to size. Oh and i will roll on, i used to be a painter by profession so im not bad with a roller :D and yes STAY FAR AWAY FROM FOAM ROLLERS!!! lol get the shortest nap u can find, and on your finishing strokes make sure the open end is trailing the roller end and u should come out with a smooth wall with no roll marks. Ill post some pics from my phone in a lil bit
If you mean the one you like best so far is 2parts granite and 1part metallic, you might want to try 2metallic +1granite if you've still got a panel you can paint on or over. The granite grey seemed to be light enough to go higher than most without as much trouble (I ended up with a 3metallic 1granite rolled with a 3/8nap I needed to use up and it still turned out surprisingly well).

For future notice to anyone looking to experiment like this:
-Buy and break/cut apart a 4x8 panel which will only be $10-15 instead of buying many small ones.
-Buy a gallon of tintable flat Light-Base and a gallon of flat "Deep Onyx" both in the brand you'll end up using and write down the ratios you use which you can later just get color-matched once you find your perfect grey for about $25 total.
-The RalphLauren $50 gallon is one of the cheapest ways to get a lot of metallic.
-Walmart sells 1/4"nap roller pads in ~$6 3packs while most hardware/paint stores only sell 1/4" and smaller as singles for about the same price.
-A couple trash bags cut/split open the long way can be an inexpensive drop-cloth alternative.

I love the dedication AND the information you shared, gstyle40, but I feel bad that you've probably invested more into this than I have at this point...feels very wrong.
 
#832 · (Edited)
Hello everyone. I'm new here. I live in Czech Republic. My projector is LG PA70G and I tested the mix paint ( Gray Tabby + silver metallic ). On the firs picture is right 2/1 and left 3/1. Believe me pictures deceiving. In reality the picture is darker than the pictures in photo. And sorry my english :) google translator
 

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#833 ·
Labelling the painted halves and adding white paper near the center was very helpful. Thank you for the excellent and thorough pictures.

Was the pa70g set closer to the bottom of the screen or closer to the top?

It looks like your 2/1 and 3/1 mixes used 2 or 3parts metallic and 1part Grey Tabby, but please correct me if I'm backwards.
Did either half look glittery or textured, or do you think adding more metallic for more brightness would be possible without too many problems?

Do you want a brighter image or do you prefer how it looks right now?

Was that metallic okay to work with or really troublesome?
Would you recommend it to others if the color and brightness of the mix was able to be good?
 
#836 ·
Hi I'm sorry seems like I'm really late in this game I just got my first projector and I have gone though the whole thread I wanna ask openly I'm a bit tight on budget and the paints you guys are naming I can't find them (I just moved to india) so is there a color code or something I can say these guys cause they don't get it (I'm searching for them in Asian paints just a heads up) and please do tell me the safest bet among all the combinations you guys are going through and I may require a little bit of guiding through this whole process .
 
#837 ·
Have you had any luck finding a tintable, water-based metallic?
That's usually the hardest part by far, even though brand isn't very important.
 
#850 ·
I think so (not recently), although I haven't personally found much reason to continue messing with it anymore besides perhaps maximizing the amount of metallic in a white mix. I all-around prefer the tintable metallic because I think it can fill most roles just as well.

For folks that can't find a tintable metallic, the pearl can be a solid substitute by using a somewhat darker flat/matte than normal..I haven't noticed the pearl paints needing drastically different ratios (unlike some of the silvers) so that's pretty handy.
 
#844 ·
#847 ·
Nice! That is indeed a tintable, water-based metallic.
There might be some problems if that particular paint ends up looking too shiny or glossy because it's a semi-gloss finish, but many metallic paints don't even bother to mention what their finish/gloss is so it may work quite well.

What projector do you plan to use?
About what size will the image be?
Can most light from windows and indoor lights be curtained and kept off the screen, or will this need to be really aggressive against lights?
 
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