Question about Black Widow with Behr paint... - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 4Likes
  • 1 Post By MississippiMan
  • 1 Post By flyng_fool
  • 1 Post By Ftoast
  • 1 Post By MississippiMan
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 9 Old 09-25-2014, 01:39 AM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
mecenas1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Question Question about Black Widow with Behr paint...

Hi, I've been lurking for some time, reading some threads about painting your own projector screens and wanted to try one level higher for my new Optoma HD25-LV.
I used to use Behr Silver Screen and the quality was ok but I thought maybe I can get better quality with another style.
I read about Black Widow and already ordered the AAA bottle but am missing the paint.
I live in Calexico, CA, and the closest paint supplier in the area is Home Depot, not Lowe's so I'm stuck with Behr paints.

Now, thanks to a post in another thread that said:
Quote:
the behr 1050-aaa sample was the most well rounded sample of the group. i can't honestly say it's the most impressive, but it certainly was the most steady. like the vaspar the 1050 was visually very similiar to the reference grey. however, when projected on, the 1050 consistently outperformed the reference grey... especially in areas that greys tend to underperform such as white levels and flesh tones. since visually, their colors were almost the same (we all know black is not projected)... black levels were consistent. therefore i'll go one step further and say the 1050-aaa was not only the most well rounded sample of the group but also the best overall performer of the group.

stick with aaa. the 1050-aaa sample consistently outperformed the reference sample, however, the 1050-blackjack sample consistently underperformed the reference sample.
I wanted to use the Behr 1050.
I searched my local Home depot but they only have the 105001, which seems to NOT have the primer in the mix, as opposed to the pure 1050 that is Paint & Primer in One.

So here are my questions:
1- Should I continue searching for a 1050 Paint & Primer can of paint to make my mix, or is the 105001 (without primer) a good match and just paint the wall with primer first?

2- I want to buy a gallon of paint, does anyone have the Behr code/quantities for the PPG The Voice of Color "Bermuda Beige" 427-2?


You don't have to answer both questions, any info helps!
Thanks in advance.
mecenas1 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 Old 09-25-2014, 04:17 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
First off....the newer version of AAA DOES NOT require the "Bermuda Beige".

It can be mixed directly into any high quality Base white.

Also, you do not need a Primer / Paint Combo


Your posting of the info above is very outdated....probably 6-7 years or so. Since then, the promoters of BW have moved on to another competing Forum since their BW application was found wanting compared to truly advanced DIY paint formulas found here on AVS's DIY Screen Forum, and frankly it was not getting much attention. This was a cause for no small amount of acrimony (ie: jealousy). Things are much better now on AVS....both atmosphere as well as DIY Screen performance.

I am surprised a bit that you seem to have passed over all the various other DIY paint choices for something that gets virtually no mention at all.

As for the BW and AAA, in the current guise, it is much more like the simpler MMud UPW / Silver mixes advocated on AVS back in 2003-2004.

The older AAA required the "Bermuda Beige" tinting to offset the AAA's known issue of pushing into Blue when mixed into a White base. Changes in the AAA formula have eliminated that concern, and almost without exception, all AAA available nowadays is of the newer composition.

Granted, mixing AAA into a White base is certainly simpler to do and less expensive than the more advanced offerings available to DIY'ers, but really....all it amounts to is being a sub-1.0 gain gray surface with a tendency toward graininess in the surface.

But you might like it a bit better than the old standby SS.

Good luck!
mecenas1 likes this.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #3 of 9 Old 09-25-2014, 04:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
flyng_fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Frisco, TX
Posts: 3,426
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 72
You've got a Sherwin Williams right there in Imperial. Way better quality than that Behr junk.
mecenas1 likes this.

Dumb enough to spend lots of cash on this junk!
flyng_fool is offline  
post #4 of 9 Old 09-25-2014, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
mecenas1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok thanks both of you for your quick replies!

One of my original plans was getting a Sherwin Williams paint called
Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White, #B20 W51 and THEN I found out about Black Widow but the news you bear are dire indeed for me (I already bought the AAA).

Let's say I consider another AVS-oriented paint screen alternative instead of Black Widow, right?

If I only have PPG, Sherwin-Williams and Home Depot stores nearby, what would be the best DIY projector screen paint option?
I can ditch the AAA option, it was only $30.

Thanks again!
mecenas1 is offline  
post #5 of 9 Old 09-25-2014, 11:28 PM
Advanced Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 995
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 158
MM, how good/bad could the now color-neutral AAA work in place of the mica for SF or MaxxM?
Would it be worth a shot so the $30 isn't wasted, or would it most likely result in a total waste if used?
mecenas1 likes this.

Simple
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Ftoast is online now  
post #6 of 9 Old 09-26-2014, 01:46 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by mecenas1 View Post
Ok thanks both of you for your quick replies!

One of my original plans was getting a Sherwin Williams paint called
Sherwin-Williams ProClassic Smooth Enamel Satin Extra White, #B20 W51 and THEN I found out about Black Widow but the news you bear are dire indeed for me (I already bought the AAA).

Let's say I consider another AVS-oriented paint screen alternative instead of Black Widow, right?

If I only have PPG, Sherwin-Williams and Home Depot stores nearby, what would be the best DIY projector screen paint option?
I can ditch the AAA option, it was only $30.

Thanks again!
First off, do not include the SW Pro Classic Satin in your plans for "anything"...or anything "Satin".

As as anything "advanced" in the AVS offerings, they all contain Mica-based components that are either sourced at a local store or via the Internet.

In your case, being in extreme southern CA near the Mexican border, your options "Locally" are limited.

If we examine what you do have (AAA) you can consider this.

The Aluminum as it is comprised in the newer AAA is in fact Color Neutral because of a coating the Aluminum particles receive. This affects their reflectivity quotient a bit, but not to a great extent.

With BW, a relatively small amount is / must be used because it is in fact so reflective. And even that smaller amount must be blended (masked) by a disproportionate amount of paint.

Attempts to add a higher percentage of AAA to increase BWs gain have met with failure.....excessive granularity and sparklies primarily, but no real gain increase because if enough is used for that result, things get completely out of hand.

All that said, a benefit of using AAA in a White paint is essentially the same as with mica as far as how it will deepen the hues of Colors and enhance blacks to a degree. But with the use of aluminum the extent of such gains are limited. But they are there...and when taking in the considerations your circumstances involve......
  • You have a PJ with a very high lumen output.
  • Not knowing what size Screen your contemplating
  • The desire to have something better than a basic Light Gray screen.
............You do not have much to be concerned about as far as loss of / lack of gain. Even a huge screen can be handled by the HD25-LV. There is no mention about any ambient light concerns.

All said, if you combine the appropriate amount of AAA to Sherwin Williams Duration Flat White, you should see at least a small improvement over a basic Behr SilverScreen surface....if you spray. Roll....and it all becomes more problematical.

Everything else I could suggest that would have substantially improved performance would entail ordering some items over the web. And cost you about $80.00 extra in paint.

If you really want a greatly improved surface, one that will also allow you to run your PJ on Low lamp and calibrate it optimally for best Black Levels, you will have to consider ordering the needed / listed components for RS-MaxxMudd Standard or Silver Fire v2.5 4.0


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftoast;27 728945
MM, how good/bad could the now color-neutral AAA work in place of the mica for SF or MaxxM?
Would it be worth a shot so the $30 isn't wasted, or would it most likely result in a total waste if used?
Because of the need to create a balance between color, reflectivity, and masking properties, any use of Aluminum would be a unknown factor. I would always counsel that the use of the prescribed components be strictly followed, or the end results might vary wildly, and that unknown factor is not desirable when the surface is depended upon to render a excellent image.
mecenas1 likes this.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
post #7 of 9 Old 09-26-2014, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
Newbie
 
mecenas1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Ok, I found out that Imperial now has a Lowe's... guess it's still growing!

Anyways I went and bought the Sherwin Williams Duration Flat White and am just waiting to mix it with the AAA. I bought a gallon and read that it's a 4:1 ratio for the AAA, am I right?

Oh, and also, I'm using a 1/4" roller, then I saw your comment...
I think I'm gonna have a rough time with this little wall...
mecenas1 is offline  
post #8 of 9 Old 09-28-2014, 05:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 995
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 230 Post(s)
Liked: 158
The last I remember reading about the BlackWidow mix was that the new version (newer color-neutral AAA, like you have) seems to not be showing as much gain as the old mix at a 4:1 ratio..it sounded like stronger (more AAA) mixes were getting tested but that's the last I heard because updates were coming really slowly.

I'm not sure if you've got enough AAA to experiment with, but if you do, it might be worth it to see how a 3:1 mix looks to you. If not, it's probably safest to stick to the 4:1 .

Simple
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Ftoast is online now  
post #9 of 9 Old 09-28-2014, 09:05 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,001
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked: 233
For some unknown reason I try to keep aware of supposed developments in the BW camp as they are, because the newer AAA really amounts to being just a darkening tint with almost no real assist as far as being a reflecting enhancement. Only a color booster.

If added in enough quantity to make any reflective difference it then creates all the old underlying issues as before. (Graininess primarily)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MississippiMan is online now  
Reply DIY Screen Section

Tags
behr , black widow , diy screen , screen paint

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off