New Place New Problems-DIY Screen Advice Needed - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 30 Old 01-15-2015, 06:47 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
New Place New Problems-DIY Screen Advice Needed

Hey Y'all. I need some help on what to do with my projector and my basement. As you can see, the wall I want to put it on is just painted brick.



The room is 15' wide x 18' deep. Seating will be around 13' to 15' to the screen.

Room gets a lot of ambient light from an entire wall of windows





pardon the mess and the crappy photos, we just moved out a pool table to make way!

So what are the details.....I have an epson 8350 projector, would like to have a 16:9 100" to 120" diagonal screen. PJ will be ceiling mounted about 10' to 12' away from the screen.

Kids will occupy the screen during the day with a Wii U or cartoons, Wifey and I will do movies at night. I will do some sports during the weekend if I can sneak down there. Love watching the Masters on the big screen.

I'm ok with painting, either spraying or rolling, just not sure what mix or type for that ambient light issue. I could also be talked into stretch fabric of some sort or really anything at this point. I just don't really want to hang drywall, mud, sand, repeat to level 5+ finish. I'm going for easy here.

In re-reading all of the DIY basics again, I'm thinking my best bet might be to get a 4' x 8' piece of white hardboard paint it up and frame it out in some trim and hang it on the wall.

Obviously my main concern is getting decent picture with all that ambient light. I know I can go with blackout shades to help, but figured if I would ask the experts what they think.

I'm not afraid to be a guinea pig if someone has a crazy idea they want me to test. I've got a pretty blank canvas to work with, am somewhat handy and willing to spend a few bucks in the name of science if it would help anyone out!



Really appreciate it!
newB24 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 08:26 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Hi,

If you want any size over 98" diagonal in 16x9, you'll have to use a Board larger than 4 x 8.

1st question: How tall is the space between your Fur Down and the Brick? The height of the Fur Down is going to be your most limiting factor.

2nd question: Can you mount the 8350 optimally close? (...those closer and higher you mount it <that allows for your size screen and that Fur Down> the closer your Kids can "Wii"

I've installed a very many 8350s using several different levels of Silver Fire, from very light to very dark. The most appreciable changes as far as room conditions would be changing out the forward Lamps in the Cans to "Spots" and switching to either Eyeball or Wall Wash shields. (...the latter being directed toward the side walls and slightly to the rear...)

You will also need to paint the underside of the Fur Down a very Dark color.

A Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 would give you the best overall results. Depending on your return answer as to the available height between Fur Down and Brick, such will determine both screen size and PJ mounting criteria.


PS....that last photo is making me dizzy!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #3 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Hi,

If you want any size over 98" diagonal in 16x9, you'll have to use a Board larger than 4 x 8.

1st question: How tall is the space between your Fur Down and the Brick? The height of the Fur Down is going to be your most limiting factor.

2nd question: Can you mount the 8350 optimally close? (...those closer and higher you mount it <that allows for your size screen and that Fur Down> the closer your Kids can "Wii"

I've installed a very many 8350s using several different levels of Silver Fire, from very light to very dark. The most appreciable changes as far as room conditions would be changing out the forward Lamps in the Cans to "Spots" and switching to either Eyeball or Wall Wash shields. (...the latter being directed toward the side walls and slightly to the rear...)

You will also need to paint the underside of the Fur Down a very Dark color.

A Silver Fire v2.5 3.0 would give you the best overall results. Depending on your return answer as to the available height between Fur Down and Brick, such will determine both screen size and PJ mounting criteria.


PS....that last photo is making me dizzy!
I know, sorry, about the photo, but best one I got, wanted everyone to see how many windows!

The space between the soffitt and the brick is 58"

I can mount the PJ as close as optimal will say!

Of course I believe bigger is always better so let's fill up that space as much as possible....

now to determine screen substrate if I go silverfire.....


Thanks so much for looking and giving me your advice, sincerely appreciated!
newB24 is online now  
post #4 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 02:43 PM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
The absolute biggest you can aspire to would be 54" x 96" (110" diagonal)

And at that size, due to the depth of the Fur Down, the Projector's lens will have to be virtually at the same height as the bottom edge of the Fur Down.

Setting the PJ at a 11' 3" throw (Lens to screen) is optimal

With Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 being approx 1.2 gain, that will get you 30 foot lambert reflective brightness off a fairly dark Gray screen. That should address any reasonable ambient light issue you'll have.

Substrate-wise....I strongly suggest Sintra or Kometex (Expandex PVC Sheets 6 mm thick) It's slippery smooth, and ready to paint upon with no prep work save wiping to make sure it has no dust or oil on it.

Post up where you live / closest Metropolis and I can price a 5' x 10' sheet, cut down to 96" x 54"

The only other really viable alternative is to construct a Frame and stretch Flexi-White onto it, then apply the SF. Both substrates wind up coming in at about the same cost.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #5 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
The absolute biggest you can aspire to would be 54" x 96" (110" diagonal)

And at that size, due to the depth of the Fur Down, the Projector's lens will have to be virtually at the same height as the bottom edge of the Fur Down.

Setting the PJ at a 11' 3" throw (Lens to screen) is optimal

With Silver Fire v2.5 4.0 being approx 1.2 gain, that will get you 30 foot lambert reflective brightness off a fairly dark Gray screen. That should address any reasonable ambient light issue you'll have.

Substrate-wise....I strongly suggest Sintra or Kometex (Expandex PVC Sheets 6 mm thick) It's slippery smooth, and ready to paint upon with no prep work save wiping to make sure it has no dust or oil on it.

Post up where you live / closest Metropolis and I can price a 5' x 10' sheet, cut down to 96" x 54"

The only other really viable alternative is to construct a Frame and stretch Flexi-White onto it, then apply the SF. Both substrates wind up coming in at about the same cost.
I had a sneaky suspicion this is where the conversation was going to go and found a supplier here in Greenville SC that is getting me a piece of Sintra at 5' x 10' I haven't discussed them cutting it, but it is getting delivered to their shop on Monday!

I also placed an amazon order for the Rustoleum white pearl and sillver as well.

So lining up the rest of my shopping list, it looks like:

Hobby Lobby/Michaels
50ml - Liquitex Basics - Napthol Crimson Red
25ml - Liquitex Basics - Phthalocyanine Green
14ml - Liquitex Basics - UltraMarine Blue
10ml - Liquitex Basics - Cadmium Yellow - Deep Hue
2 oz Liquitex Basics Gold


Lowes:
Rustoleum's Ultimate Polyurethane Matte Finish (water based)

Home Depot
10 oz Behr 1850 UPW Flat


So it looks like you upped it to SF 2.5-4 no problem


Should I wipe the Sintra down with anything in particular or just warm water?


Glad to know there is no primer or anything to be done, just get it ready for paint



No problems with your suggestions on placement of the projector (distance or downrod length)


Should I build a frame to fur it out from the brick or can I attach the sintra right to the brick and then frame it in with some moulding (where I would hide the attachment points)?


I've read a few more threads and seen some LED back lighting, does that serve any purpose or just a cool factor?


Well now, I'm excited, can't wait for all this stuff to come in, maybe I'll mount the PJ this weekend just to do something on it!


Thanks again MM....I'm sure it will be great with your advice/guidance
newB24 is online now  
post #6 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 07:27 PM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Ha.....just took notice of the Brick interior. Yes...a Frame is advisable. More on the design & building of this later...after I feed my Horses.

I hope your getting the Sintra delivered to a "Shop" doesn't / hasn't added undue cost. I mostly refer people to Wholesale Distributors such as Lairds or Piedmont.

They cut it for you at those locations...and you should let them too.

LED lighting would be counterproductive since the ceiling on the Fur down will be so close, such light will bounce back onto the screen.
That is also why you must treat that underside to reduce the screen's own light output, or the same thing will happen.
Or...you could consider hanging your screen on the outside of the opening, which BTW would allow you to go up to 120" diagonal, (60" x 106") allow for the screen to be mounted a wee bit higher, and eliminate the PJ drop considerations...completely.

One last issue. If the screen is mounted inside that brick cubbyhole, it is going to be especially difficult to spray the top and bottom edges evenly. Another reason to build a Frame to support the Sintra, so you can hang it up on the outside of the opening to paint, and then place it inside on French Cleats.

Let's be sure to move with both prudence and precision here. No rushing pellmell into things. Nothing so far is either intractable or overly difficult, you simply have to do everything optimally and within known and proven parameters.

Personally, I think the inset screen idea has the most merit...but something always has to be said about "Bigger".

Man....is that strident nickering I hear?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #7 of 30 Old 01-16-2015, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Ha.....just took notice of the Brick interior. Yes...a Frame is advisable. More on the design & building of this later...after I feed my Horses.

I hope your getting the Sintra delivered to a "Shop" doesn't / hasn't added undue cost. I mostly refer people to Wholesale Distributors such as Lairds or Piedmont.

They cut it for you at those locations...and you should let them too.

LED lighting would be counterproductive since the ceiling on the Fur down will be so close, such light will bounce back onto the screen.
That is also why you must treat that underside to reduce the screen's own light output, or the same thing will happen.
Or...you could consider hanging your screen on the outside of the opening, which BTW would allow you to go up to 120" diagonal, (60" x 106") allow for the screen to be mounted a wee bit higher, and eliminate the PJ drop considerations...completely.

One last issue. If the screen is mounted inside that brick cubbyhole, it is going to be especially difficult to spray the top and bottom edges evenly. Another reason to build a Frame to support the Sintra, so you can hang it up on the outside of the opening to paint, and then place it inside on French Cleats.

Let's be sure to move with both prudence and precision here. No rushing pellmell into things. Nothing so far is either intractable or overly difficult, you simply have to do everything optimally and within known and proven parameters.

Personally, I think the inset screen idea has the most merit...but something always has to be said about "Bigger".

Man....is that strident nickering I hear?
Well, MM that was quick, I was shutting it down for tonight and you had already responded!

As far as the shop, when I talked to the guy, he was getting a delivery monday and said he would add my sheet to his order for $35 but I had to tell him today. He said if I didn't end up wanting it, no problem he could just cut it up and make signs out of it and not charge me
I just took a slight leap, ordering some long lead items or items I knew I could return or resell!

I'm keeping it in the cubby, the recessed look will make it look like it was meant to go there.
newB24 is online now  
post #8 of 30 Old 01-20-2015, 08:25 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 12
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 0
I think your screen in the recessed space in front of the bricks would look incredible!
fonzdreamsbig is offline  
post #9 of 30 Old 01-21-2015, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzdreamsbig View Post
I think your screen in the recessed space in front of the bricks would look incredible!
I think you are right, should look like it was made to go in there, even though my last screen was 120" I think I can sacrifice a few inches to keep it recessed.

My only progress so far has been to get an outlet in the ceiling (swapped out where the pooltable light was with an outlet) and I've gathered up all the materials except the Rustoleum which is coming from Amazon.

I don't know where my Sintra panel is, I called yesterday and my contact was out of the office, but I did confirm they will cut it down to size for me, now just need to figure out how to get it back to my house without ruining it. I may have to rent a u-haul or something since I don't have access to a pickup or flatbed.

Kind of dragging my feet on making the frame for it, but that won't take anytime at all to whip it together.

Unfortunately I have some travel for work and play coming up so this might sit idle for a bit unless I can sneak down in between honey do-s and get that projector hung and some AV source down there to project onto the wall for now.
newB24 is online now  
post #10 of 30 Old 01-21-2015, 08:21 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Please do not fail to consider my points regarding the spraying process, and the inability to spray your screen's top and bottom edges while located within the recess.

The Framed material can/should be hung on the exterior surface of the recess, with masking around the edges for run-out, then relocated within the recess for permanent mounting.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #11 of 30 Old 01-21-2015, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Please do not fail to consider my points regarding the spraying process, and the inability to spray your screen's top and bottom edges while located within the recess.

The Framed material can/should be hung on the exterior surface of the recess, with masking around the edges for run-out, then relocated within the recess for permanent mounting.

MM, point well taken and will be executed the best I can.

I keep re-reading the forums and getting as many tips and tricks on the painting process.....

My plan on the frame is to just make an outline with 1 cross member our of some 4" wide poplar planks. will that due the trick?
newB24 is online now  
post #12 of 30 Old 01-21-2015, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ok, need some expert advice!

From screen to lens here are my choices

10' 9"
or

12' 6"
or

9' 9"

I just found all my joists in the ceiling and these are the only places I feel confident hanging the PJ.

I'm getting the Sintra board cut to 54" x 96" but really looking at it, it seems as though once I make a velvet boarder with moulding my screen will be a little bit smaller than that.

So, what would be the best distance from screen to lens on for my espson on SF 2.5-4?
newB24 is online now  
post #13 of 30 Old 01-21-2015, 06:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ftoast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,650
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 455 Post(s)
Liked: 232
The closer you can mount, the brighter your image will be.
The 8350 can fill a 96"-wide (110" 16:9) screen from 10'8" at the closest, so a slightly smaller screen at 10'9" should fit with a tiny bit of leeway and peak brightness.

If that feels like you're cutting things too close, the 12'6" isn't going to cost much brightness and would also be a good choice.

You can't mount closer than 10'8" and I wouldn't recommend going farther than 12'6".

Simple <$250 dedicated black-fabric theater room, build in a day, takedown in an hour.
Easy $25-40 DIY black/dark-grey ambient-light rejecting screen, grab two things from a local store..mix..roll..done.
Ftoast is online now  
post #14 of 30 Old 01-22-2015, 10:16 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
In this instance, the height of the lens is just as important as the distance....and they are both tied to screen size.

  1. Considering that the surface the screen is to be mounted to must be a frame, then if you are to have a 110" diagonal screen, the exterior edges of the frame must be 57" x 99" minimum to support the addition of a minimalist 2" Trim .
  2. Mounting the PJ too close when the top edge is so close to the overhanging inset...and the depth pf the inset being what it is, will require the necessity of mounting the PJ with the Lens at minimum almost the same level.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #15 of 30 Old 01-22-2015, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
In this instance, the height of the lens is just as important as the distance....and they are both tied to screen size.

  1. Considering that the surface the screen is to be mounted to must be a frame, then if you are to have a 110" diagonal screen, the exterior edges of the frame must be 57" x 99" minimum to support the addition of a minimalist 2" Trim .
  2. Mounting the PJ too close when the top edge is so close to the overhanging inset...and the depth pf the inset being what it is, will require the necessity of mounting the PJ with the Lens at minimum almost the same level.
Great comments, the way my mount works, I can have any drop down I want, but I think from my old set up, that the current down pipe is going to be perfect length to get my lens below the soffit.

Good news is I picked up my Sintra panel, which turned out to be Kometex, is this stuff just like kleenex or is there some sort of difference? It is as smooth and clean as a baby's bottom.

If this Rustoleum would get here I would be 100% ready to go....too bad I have to travel the next few weeks or I could this thing going.
newB24 is online now  
post #16 of 30 Old 01-22-2015, 03:51 PM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by newB24 View Post
Great comments, the way my mount works, I can have any drop down I want, but I think from my old set up, that the current down pipe is going to be perfect length to get my lens below the soffit.

Good news is I picked up my Sintra panel, which turned out to be Kometex, is this stuff just like kleenex or is there some sort of difference? It is as smooth and clean as a baby's bottom.

If this Rustoleum would get here I would be 100% ready to go....too bad I have to travel the next few weeks or I could this thing going.
Kometex is a different Brand of the exact same thing....and usually less expensive. Smooth and unblemished, it's exactly what you want.

If you have the drop length ability....your golden.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #17 of 30 Old 01-23-2015, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Kometex is a different Brand of the exact same thing....and usually less expensive. Smooth and unblemished, it's exactly what you want.

If you have the drop length ability....your golden.
Well I snuck down in the basement and hung the PJ in the ceiling and put the test screen up on the wall and got it all squared and level.

Pretty terrible picture on the brick wall! HAHAHA

Fits right in the spot like it was made to be there. as you can see there is some flash up on the soffit, I may try and get some flock tape and put up there this time, I saw some rather cheap on the bay.



So I ended up at 10'10" from lens to screen, so my math wasn't too bad but still a few inches short of optimal.

Since this is a retrofit PJ, I need to figure out how to get my HDMI cable up to the PJ relatively cleanly and figure out how to get my speakers up in the ceiling and run the wires.

I also need to get some dimming switches on the lights so I can turn them down a bit at night.

How do you attach the kometex to the wood frame? glue or do you use drywall screws? Can someone point me in the right direction?
newB24 is online now  
post #18 of 30 Old 01-31-2015, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
We'll I'm about to start mixing the paint. Refreshed up on the painting and mixing.

I guess I start out with 24 oz distiller water and see how it flows. I have the graco sprayer.

Keep the sprayer 10 to 12 inch away. 50% overlap and 2 feet per second spray rate

Will post a few photos tonight unless wife changes my plans
newB24 is online now  
post #19 of 30 Old 01-31-2015, 01:53 PM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Water runs through the Gun totally unlike anything you'll use as a paint mix, so do that sort of "test" is worthless. Do you have the 1.0 m needle?

Basically, just mix the Water and Poly first, to create a good mixing base, then add the Silver and Pearl each slowly, mixing as you pour.

Squeeze out the required Gold, dilute it with 2-3 oz of water, then mix it in as the mixer is going.

All that is left is to do a good job measuring out the Primaries.....using the prescribed water to rinse the remaining "measured amount" off into the cup holding the Tints. Repeat that step with each primary, then, mix all well using a Butter Knife...or something that allows you to scrape the side of the cup / container and also swish around to dislodge any clingy primary.

The Colorant should be pretty thinned out if all the prescribed water for rinsing has been added in. Pour it into a measurable container so you can dispense the correct amount (1 oz - 2 oz. - 3 oz. etc.)
When mixing the colorant into the Viscosity/Reflective Base, pour it into the side of the mixing tool as the tool is spinning at a moderately slow speed. Not "slow" and not "medium".....just "moderately slow.

And....you did not mention straining. You absolutely MUST strain the paint, either as a whole mix into a clean container, or individually into the Paint Cup each time you fill it up (...no more than 3/4s full)
Do not / fail to strain, and your gun WILL plug up.

Break down and clean the Gun after every 2 sprays for maximum Flow characteristics.

12" to 14" away....70% overlap, speed across the material is more like dead on between 2'-3' sec. If you are to err on the latter, do so by being speedier. Fast dusters that have sufficient overlap will look horribly "spotty", but they dry very fast, and it is the repeated coats that serve to fill in between the spots.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #20 of 30 Old 01-31-2015, 08:39 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Water runs through the Gun totally unlike anything you'll use as a paint mix, so do that sort of "test" is worthless. Do you have the 1.0 m needle?

Basically, just mix the Water and Poly first, to create a good mixing base, then add the Silver and Pearl each slowly, mixing as you pour.

Squeeze out the required Gold, dilute it with 2-3 oz of water, then mix it in as the mixer is going.

All that is left is to do a good job measuring out the Primaries.....using the prescribed water to rinse the remaining "measured amount" off into the cup holding the Tints. Repeat that step with each primary, then, mix all well using a Butter Knife...or something that allows you to scrape the side of the cup / container and also swish around to dislodge any clingy primary.

The Colorant should be pretty thinned out if all the prescribed water for rinsing has been added in. Pour it into a measurable container so you can dispense the correct amount (1 oz - 2 oz. - 3 oz. etc.)
When mixing the colorant into the Viscosity/Reflective Base, pour it into the side of the mixing tool as the tool is spinning at a moderately slow speed. Not "slow" and not "medium".....just "moderately slow.

And....you did not mention straining. You absolutely MUST strain the paint, either as a whole mix into a clean container, or individually into the Paint Cup each time you fill it up (...no more than 3/4s full)
Do not / fail to strain, and your gun WILL plug up.

Break down and clean the Gun after every 2 sprays for maximum Flow characteristics.

12" to 14" away....70% overlap, speed across the material is more like dead on between 2'-3' sec. If you are to err on the latter, do so by being speedier. Fast dusters that have sufficient overlap will look horribly "spotty", but they dry very fast, and it is the repeated coats that serve to fill in between the spots.
Sorry MM, I meant, go with 24 oz of water for the initial mix, not to test! Sorry!!!

Well thanks to the awesome cliff notes by MM, I was only able to mix up the paint tonight and get all the plastic hung, looks like paint tomorrow...

UGH, 70% overlap, I'm sweating just thinking about that. I may go so fast, I'll have to do 10 duster coats!

I'm going to try and upload a photo, image shack says I need to upgrade, but let's see what it looks like below and drag and drop here....just the remnants in the 2 gallon bucket
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	paint.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	75.5 KB
ID:	515497  
newB24 is online now  
post #21 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 05:53 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by newB24 View Post

UGH, 70% overlap, I'm sweating just thinking about that. I may go so fast, I'll have to do 10 duster coats!
3' a second is your safety net. If your vertical pattern is 12", then as you reach the side and run off, you simply drop the height of your fist and start back onto the surface and across, all in a smooth continuous motion.

I still worry about the constrained area you have at the Top / Bottom edges of the screen,as doing a overlap applies to those edges as well, and the bottom edge is going to be a toughie because the protruding edge of the brick will keep the Gun from getting the prescribed 12-14" distance at the correct right angle to the screen.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #22 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 09:17 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
3' a second is your safety net. If your vertical pattern is 12", then as you reach the side and run off, you simply drop the height of your fist and start back onto the surface and across, all in a smooth continuous motion.

I still worry about the constrained area you have at the Top / Bottom edges of the screen,as doing a overlap applies to those edges as well, and the bottom edge is going to be a toughie because the protruding edge of the brick will keep the Gun from getting the prescribed 12-14" distance at the correct right angle to the screen.
MM thanks for keeping me in your thoughts, appreciate all of the comments!

So I'm 2 coats in, I'm doing my best about overlap and speed, it looks like I'm pretty thin in 1 area, but I'm not too worried, more coats to go

This is how I furred it out for paint, I think it is doing OK with the top and bottom and the appropriate amount of overlap.

Waiting till this dries to hit up another coat.....
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0776.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	120.1 KB
ID:	516089  
newB24 is online now  
post #23 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by newB24 View Post
MM thanks for keeping me in your thoughts, appreciate all of the comments!

So I'm 2 coats in, I'm doing my best about overlap and speed, it looks like I'm pretty thin in 1 area, but I'm not too worried, more coats to go

This is how I furred it out for paint, I think it is doing OK with the top and bottom and the appropriate amount of overlap.

Waiting till this dries to hit up another coat.....
So the million dollar question is how do I know when I'm done? About how much paint should I go through. I started with 1 gallon and am up to 4 coats now, 3rd and 4th really filled it in and it is looking good. I've done the best I could with the overlap and it doesn't look at streaky as my last screen.

I'm probably closer to the 2' per second and overlapping it by 70%

Any thoughts on when to stop coating it? I'm probably down close to 1/2 gallon, but have wasted a bunch with gun clean outs (I've done 2 so far and my straining technique leaves quite a puddle.
newB24 is online now  
post #24 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 10:58 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Awllllrighty then....

It is absolutely great to see the effort you make to pull the screen forward, and let stretched Plastic be your vertical side boarders.

Light spots can be brought up to par easiest by a method called "sweeping". That entails holding the gun sideways to a area needing more paint, then starting the flow and twisting your wrist / aim inward, then continuing to twist out after reaching the other side. Usually, a single "w/return" pass is the safest, and you let that dose dry for 10-15 minutes and redo. Let that dry completely and you then do a entire coat. Once dry...inspect...and repeat another focused sweep action.

That should do it...and that method is the safest. You really have to be a judge for yourself on the spot. A barely noticeable difference is of no issue if after the next coat, a seemingly more acceptable parity has been reached. If not....gear up for some Sweeping because the translucent nature of the paint will result in one area always being lighter and brighter under projection...if you apply enough paint to seem to equalize coverage to the eye, but under normal light.

Of course, the telling of technique sometimes underplays the ease of doing such when one has developed such actual technique. So practice a few sweeps....if you see the need for sweeping at all.

Now that last only applies to areas that have a big difference. Edges are the most common to be lighter, but sometimes it's the opposite because too conspicuous an effort was made to be certain "enough" paint was applied. There is no better way to avoid such than having a "screen edge level" surface as a run off / run out.

Such as yours.

Not a wholly solid or level surface...plastic is gonna move back against the Gun's pressure. But secured with any degree of tautness and taped off thoroughly, the advantage such a "Plastic shield" has over spraying into a void that is even 2' deep is almost incalculable, as far as achieving a evenly laid down coat out to the edges.

I'll be monitoring your progress....at least until the Game starts.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #25 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 11:24 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
I see your latest post.

Now let me be clear. Anytime you can seem to see coverage at 4 coats, the paint has gone on too heavily. 2' second is the slowest a Duster can be, and the use of that speed is determined by factors such as paint thickness, mist effectiveness, and pressure. But it should not be a universally accepted speed, because if a slight misjudgement is made....and worse, such heavier coats are applied too soon after another, Orange Peel, or some degree of surface texture beyond "smooth" will result.

If you but step back, and let the screen really dry (if no longer tacky, put a fan to it.)

You then look at the screen surface a describe it.

I would at this time say a very light but screen wide sanding with a 3" x 9" Large Fine Frit Sanding Sponge* be called for (...once screen is "dry" )
(*Home Depot Drywall Tools dept.)
Your not really removing much material has you are smoothing out any / all bumps. You simply sweep the surface with barely enough pressure to hold the sponge...you use your palm to distribute pressure equally. I cove a lot o territory when I sweep sand, and always do about 3 sweeps up/down, then move to one side and onward. Your screen is small enough you should be able to sweep sand from top to bottom with each stroke. If not, do the cenetr as widely as possible, then the Top and Bottom respectfully, over lapping the top and bottom center edges. Kiss....don't scrub.

Wipe clean....and then apply 3 more coats at 3' a second! LOTS of ovelap. Speed dictates amount applied....which without significant and equal overlap would be sparse indeed!
All the same the smaller amount helps one cover with the least amount needed, and prevents the terrors described above.

Once the 3rd new coat is dry, look for any trace of splotchy-ness

When a careful examination shows a equal, even color across the screen......do one more Duster.....just to be sure.

That's how I do it. Usually 8 light Dusters. Fan assisted drying and room temps elevated if possible. 20 minutes between coats. Average time to paint screen...2 hrs 30 min.

But that's me, and whadda I know frum nuttin'.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #26 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
looks like orange peel to me, what do you think...I'll let dry and sand per your instructions then really light and quick dusters
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0777.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	70.0 KB
ID:	516617  
newB24 is online now  
post #27 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 03:46 PM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by newB24 View Post
looks like orange peel to me, what do you think...I'll let dry and sand per your instructions then really light and quick dusters
As opposed to silky smooth....yep...it's pretty bumpy. But not full on orange peel.

Sand as suggested and re-paint.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #28 of 30 Old 02-01-2015, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well I ran out of time waiting for the paint to dry so didn't get to do as much as I wanted but there is always later.

here are some photos right after the last coat of paint, I'm not sure the paint was totally dry yet, an overcast day outside getting close to dusk.

A few notes:

1. my can lights throw a lot of light on the screen, look at the light thrown onto the soffits
2. This was off my Roku, not sure it is the best source
3. Went with can lights full on, 1/2 on and off
4. the close up photo was taken about 3 hours after the last coat of paint.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0782.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	96.0 KB
ID:	518193   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0783.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	183.6 KB
ID:	518201   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0781.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	175.7 KB
ID:	518209   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0786.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	95.0 KB
ID:	518217  
newB24 is online now  
post #29 of 30 Old Yesterday, 05:39 AM
DIY Grand Dad (w/help)
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 15,533
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 410 Post(s)
Liked: 289
Your Texture seems to be minimal so do some watching and observing of varied content and make a determination based on them. You might find the results wholly acceptable.

Yes, that is a lot of intense directed overhead lighting. I could see that as being an issue from your very first photo on the Thread.
The forward Cans should get Wall Wash lenses with the open side pointing away from the screen. Also, switching the Bulbs out for Spot Lamps would make a big difference. Combined, both would be optimal.
http://www.lightingdirect.com/recess...20Wash%20Trims

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
MississippiMan is offline  
post #30 of 30 Unread Today, 07:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
newB24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 117
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK, I need better eye candy, but wanted to show it with a few tweaks and HD.

I took the front 2 bulbs out becuase the eyeball trims I bought to test from the big box story didn't install deep enough and the light won't screw into the fixture so I have to figure that out.

So 3 photos taken at night....

2 full lights on
2 lights on half way
no lights on at all.

I'm 3 days cured out now, I'll get something better down there once I get some proper trims installed and see what you guys think.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0793.jpg
Views:	0
Size:	201.9 KB
ID:	524665   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0795.jpg
Views:	0
Size:	165.8 KB
ID:	524673   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0792.jpg
Views:	0
Size:	152.0 KB
ID:	524681  
newB24 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Screen Section

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off