Silverfire to spandex - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 37 Old 07-09-2015, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Silverfire to spandex

After days of trying to spray paint my SILVER FIRE NC on the Carl's FlexiWhite without any success, i have decided to build a new screen

Looking for a cheap and easy way out and something close SILVER FIRE NC screen color.

3D is very important and good Black level.
Projector BenQ W1070

Looking to build 120'' Screen.

What Spandex material should i buy from http://spandexworld.com/
and how yards do i need0

Will appreciate anybody help.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 37 Old 07-12-2015, 12:49 PM
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A 124" diagonal Zero Edge Spandex AT Screen...The Whole Enchilada (burp)

Spandex to use, 3 yards of each:
http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/795
http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/10921

Select Pine or Fir 2x4s
Poplar for 1x4s & 1x3s

Simpson Strong Tie Braces are mounted on the rear of the 1x Frame. 3/4" Quarter Round is glued to the 1x Frame using Elmers Wood Glue and let dry overnight before working with the Spandex.

Be sure to wrap the Spandex so that at least 2" covers the back of the 1x4 Frame. Be prepared to possibly apply a dark Bronze Caulk at the junction of the 1x4 Frame and the 2x4 Frame to prevent Light Leakage from the LEDs into the interior of the 2x4 Frame. Might not happen....but be prepared.

If the build is done as shown below, the end result will be an attractive Zero Edge Spandex Screen whose outside edges are completely covered.

Now should you have any issues wrapping all the way onto the rear of the 1x4 Frame effectively and neatly, a viable alternative is to obtain some 1.5" Pine Lattice, paint it a deep Satin Black, and overlay the side edges so as to cleat the Spandex between it and the Frame (...after you have stapled the spandex to the side edges and tapped the staples Flush of course...) Then take a sharp Utility Knife and trim the excess Spandex.

Hopefully you will have a recessed and switched 110v Outlet within the inside perimeter of the 2x4 Wall Frame. and if you do, obviously you will need to cut a access slot somewhere through the 2x4 Frame for the LED Leads.

Here is a complete Frame Design, both Wall and Spandex Frames



Knock it out.
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post #3 of 37 Old 07-12-2015, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
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WOW!!!

Sorry for the late reply...(Wifey Duties)


This is amazing.
Again thanks for your help!

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post #4 of 37 Old 07-12-2015, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
WOW!!!

Sorry for the late reply...(Wifey Duties)


This is amazing.
Again thanks for your help!
Sawrite



Just be sure to read and follow the instructions
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post #5 of 37 Old 07-18-2015, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Some progress.
Wood work almost done.
Spandex is arriving next week.



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post #6 of 37 Old 07-18-2015, 03:27 PM
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Excellent! It might sound a bit condescending but Hell...I'm proud of ya!

Be sure to use some Wood Filler on those Corners, and then lightly sand down the sharp edges of the Corners.

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post #7 of 37 Old 07-18-2015, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Some progress.
Wood work almost done.
Spandex is arriving next week.



Looking great, can't wait to see it finished and the leds on.

Brad
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post #8 of 37 Old 07-18-2015, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Milliskin matte white and matte silver should be here on Tuesday...
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post #9 of 37 Old 07-21-2015, 05:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Getting my Spandex this afternoon.
Quick question.
What is the right stretch on these material and how would i know i got the correct stretch?

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post #10 of 37 Old 07-21-2015, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Getting my Spandex this afternoon.
Quick question.
What is the right stretch on these material and how would i know i got the correct stretch?
Well...if you ordered what was suggested...Milliskin Spandex, and from the outlet suggested...Spandex World, then your going to get exactly what is needed.


80% Nylon, 20% Spandex. 4-Way Stretch.

If you ordered elsewhere and the specifications are not "exactly" the same...who knows?

If your going to try to purchase locally....good luck. But use the above listed specifications as your guide and accept NO substitutions!

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post #11 of 37 Old 07-21-2015, 06:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Well...if you ordered what was suggested...Milliskin Spandex, and from the outlet suggested...Spandex World, then your going to get exactly what is needed.


80% Nylon, 20% Spandex. 4-Way Stretch.

If you ordered elsewhere and the specifications are not "exactly" the same...who knows?

If your going to try to purchase locally....good luck. But use the above listed specifications as your guide and accept NO substitutions!
I order the exact thing you told me from Spandex World.

I just want make sure i am stretching the material correctly and not over stretching.

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post #12 of 37 Old 07-21-2015, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
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I order the exact thing you told me from Spandex World.

I just want make sure i am stretching the material correctly and not over stretching.
Ok then....BTW...did you order it to come on a Roll? Hopefully. Looking back at my 1st response above, I see I did not add that in. I usually do. I hope that does not work out to be a "My Bad" thingee.

With your Frame design, you can stretch the top layer of Spandex until it is taunt...but it does not have to be drum-head tight. When stretching the bottom layer of fabric, you can introduce a tighter pull, because...:
  • You cannot see and pull-induced weave distortion the weave through the top layer anyway.
  • A tighter pull allows all the more effective transmission of sound.
  • The tighter underlying surface will act as a supportive layer for the Top layer, therein reducing the amount of pull required on the Top layer.*


*
Of course if the Spandex comes folded, you might have to stretch it tighter to get out any fold-induced wrinkles. Just observe the fabric weave. If it starts to become apparent that it is distorting...ease up until the weave looks even.

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post #13 of 37 Old 07-21-2015, 06:09 PM - Thread Starter
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After 2 hours of Stapling,here is the results.






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Yay.
Looks like ya nailed...er, I mean stapled it good !

I especially like the look of the edges pulled over the Quarter Round.

Next...the acid test. Splash some eye candy on that sucka.

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post #15 of 37 Old 07-22-2015, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Yay.
Looks like ya nailed...er, I mean stapled it good !

I especially like the look of the edges pulled over the Quarter Round.

Next...the acid test. Splash some eye candy on that sucka.
I need to attach the LED 2X4 wood to the mainframe.

What kind of wood screw can i use or what should i do?

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post #16 of 37 Old 07-22-2015, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
I need to attach the LED 2X4 wood to the mainframe.

What kind of wood screw can i use or what should i do?
No screws. Too risky.

Is the 2x4 w/LEDs attached semi-permanently to the wall, or will it be hung using a French Cleat system?

If the latter is the case, use Power Grab Extra Strength, evenly applied so that when both assemblies are compressed together, so that when examined the two pieces seem to have no space between them. (...that would happen by using about a 3/4" wide bead...spread flat before assembly) If the two areas are completely wood on wood, then you can also safely use Wood Glue, but being careful to keep the Glue toward the outside edge of the 2x4.

Don't scrimp...but don't overdo. Put down clean plastic to set the screen face down on, mark the perimeter of the 1x frame where you want to set the outside edge of the 2x frame within, apply the adhesive of choice to the 1x stick Frame, keeping it at least 1" away from you marked outline...then put it down, press, and then get the 'ell way! Let it dry overnight before you consider moving it even an inch.

The one thing you have to avoid at all cost, especially if you opt to use a more fluid-like Glue such as Wood Clue, is to not have any squeeze out from under the outside edge of the 2x4 and manage to run down onto the spandex.

Now if the 2x4 Frame is affixed to the wall, then you will have to do it a different way. No need to go over than until needed.

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post #17 of 37 Old 07-26-2015, 08:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Screen complete.
Picture looks really good.



Thanks MM!!

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The screen looks great. One quick question why did you have to buy 2 separate color spandex materials, Silver Matte milliskin and White matte. Do you apply one material over the other. I'm just trying to figure things out so new to all the home theater projectors and screens.
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post #19 of 37 Old 07-26-2015, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hminha3 View Post
The screen looks great. One quick question why did you have to buy 2 separate color spandex materials, Silver Matte milliskin and White matte It make the screen look a little bit Gray. Do you apply one material over the other. Yes!I'm just trying to figure things out so new to all the home theater projectors and screens.
Better blacks!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
Better blacks!
Another Happy Camper...............

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post #21 of 37 Old 07-27-2015, 08:16 AM
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Better blacks!

is white over black too much dark VS white over silver ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
is white over black too much dark VS white over silver ?
It's not so much as being "too dark" as it is a case where you lose a bit more gain, requiring more lumen output.

The White topmost layer assures you of great whites.....but the darker the underlying surface is, the more light it absorbs.

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post #23 of 37 Old 07-27-2015, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyhog View Post
is white over black too much dark VS white over silver ?
I think the best thing to do is buy the main screen size white then buy 2 small pieces of Silver and black,then do the test yourself.

So you can then determine which combination fit your needs.

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Isn't the black spandex needed regardless, as an acoustically transparent trim when watching a 16:9 film on your 2.4 scope screen. I realize this would be 3 layers so not ideal, but I suppose better acoustically then thick black velvet trim.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Movie78 View Post
I think the best thing to do is buy the main screen size white then buy 2 small pieces of Silver and black,then do the test yourself.

So you can then determine which combination fit your needs.
Considering all the examples of both already posted and discussed, and the already known results, such impromptu and ineffectual testing is both a waste of time and wholly unnecessary. Let alone considering that you cannot "properly" put the White up first and then put on the Silver or Black Rear layer later.

The results I posted concerning the use of Black under White are exactly what can be expected. Slightly deeper Black levels due to more attenuation, with whites not taking quite as proportionate a hit because of the White Spandex surface.


Quote:
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Isn't the black spandex needed regardless, as an acoustically transparent trim when watching a 16:9 film on your 2.4 scope screen. I realize this would be 3 layers so not ideal, but I suppose better acoustically then thick black velvet trim.
No one I have seen on this Forum does it that way....the Black spandex always is behind the White. Now yes....you could use Black Spandex as a side Masking "Curtain" , but frankly, when one is doing a CHI 2.39:1 / 16:9 AT screen, they expect to have the Side bars. A 3rd layer of Spandex Drapery would of course be better than any other type of solid or semi-solid Drapery.

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post #26 of 37 Old 08-03-2015, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
Spandex to use, 3 yards of each:
http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/795
http://spandexworld.com/c3/catalog/product/10921

Select Pine or Fir 2x4s
Poplar for 1x4s & 1x3s

Simpson Strong Tie Braces are mounted on the rear of the 1x Frame. 3/4" Quarter Round is glued to the 1x Frame using Elmers Wood Glue and let dry overnight before working with the Spandex.

Be sure to wrap the Spandex so that at least 2" covers the back of the 1x4 Frame. Be prepared to possibly apply a dark Bronze Caulk at the junction of the 1x4 Frame and the 2x4 Frame to prevent Light Leakage from the LEDs into the interior of the 2x4 Frame. Might not happen....but be prepared.

If the build is done as shown below, the end result will be an attractive Zero Edge Spandex Screen whose outside edges are completely covered.

Now should you have any issues wrapping all the way onto the rear of the 1x4 Frame effectively and neatly, a viable alternative is to obtain some 1.5" Pine Lattice, paint it a deep Satin Black, and overlay the side edges so as to cleat the Spandex between it and the Frame (...after you have stapled the spandex to the side edges and tapped the staples Flush of course...) Then take a sharp Utility Knife and trim the excess Spandex.

Hopefully you will have a recessed and switched 110v Outlet within the inside perimeter of the 2x4 Wall Frame. and if you do, obviously you will need to cut a access slot somewhere through the 2x4 Frame for the LED Leads.

Here is a complete Frame Design, both Wall and Spandex Frames



Knock it out.
MM-

I really like this design, and plan on building it into my HT in the near future. Would you see any problem with eliminating the center stud in the screen frame? I plan on having my front soundstage behind the screen and don't want the center support to interfere with my center channel.
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post #27 of 37 Old 08-03-2015, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SetterP View Post
MM-

I really like this design, and plan on building it into my HT in the near future. Would you see any problem with eliminating the center stud in the screen frame? I plan on having my front soundstage behind the screen and don't want the center support to interfere with my center channel.
That is dependent on how wide the screen is. A general rule of thumb being two verticals need to be spaced at 1/3rd in from each side.

But this is a "Frame on Top of a Frame" and the Top Frame is securely attached to the Frame that is attached to the wall, so I really do not see any issues rearing up to bite ya.

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post #28 of 37 Old 08-03-2015, 04:33 PM
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I plan on building the exact 124" diagonal screen that you have detailed. It just so happens that size will fit my space/needs perfectly.

One question..... is the wall frame constructed with the 2x4's on on the short edge facing vs. the screen frame constructed with the 2x4's in the long edge facing? Hope this question makes sense. I would think that a French cleat might work better with this orientation and give a light-proof seal between the frames for the LED rope lights. If you have a detail on your idea for the cleating that would be supremely helpful.
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post #29 of 37 Old 08-03-2015, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by SetterP View Post
I plan on building the exact 124" diagonal screen that you have detailed. It just so happens that size will fit my space/needs perfectly.

One question..... is the wall frame constructed with the 2x4's on on the short edge facing vs. the screen frame constructed with the 2x4's in the long edge facing? Hope this question makes sense. I would think that a French cleat might work better with this orientation and give a light-proof seal between the frames for the LED rope lights.
2x4s are on the "Flat" so that there is a 1.5" rise off the wall surface.

Quote:
If you have a detail on your idea for the cleating that would be supremely helpful.
You had to ask, now didn'cha?

And of course I can't resist supplying such.

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post #30 of 37 Old 08-04-2015, 03:46 PM
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That's awesome info/sketch. Thanks MM!
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