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post #271 of 514 Old 07-31-2003, 07:02 AM
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Gangsta: It would be ideal to see a raw piece of blackout material draped over your new screen to compare the difference between the raw blackout cloth and your painted screen. Otherwise - you really can't tell exactly how big of an improvement you have made to your screen or how much brighter or duller the whites have become - most people that go from memory of what the old screen looked like can usually pick out that the blacks are indeed blacker - but a lot of the time they loose perception on how much the whites may have dulled since the blacks are now deeper - draping a raw piece of blackout over the finished product will eliminate any guess work on what you had and what has actually changed with the painted product. Any extra pieces of blackout material you could shoot some more pics with ?
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post #272 of 514 Old 07-31-2003, 07:56 AM
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I think the Spyglass entertainment shot is a tribute to your success - and shows well the increase in contrrast.;)
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post #273 of 514 Old 07-31-2003, 12:53 PM
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"Assayer: I was using unpainted white Blackout Cloth before I decided to paint it w/ ddog's Paint Mixture. I used 50% Silver, 40% Glaze, 10% White mixing ratios and I used a foam roller to apply it on the screen. I would suggest that you paint this indoors so the paint doesnt' dry out too quick. That way you can paint the entire screen and then run the roller over the whole thing to make it smooth and even. I had to apply two coats to get it right.
"

That's exactly what I did and my very happy with the results. I tried spraying on MDF and the foam roller on plain blackout cloth is IMO much easier to do properly
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post #274 of 514 Old 07-31-2003, 05:59 PM
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DenisT: Let me know how your translucent layer looks.
Eameres: Thanks for comparing. Also agree that our paint experiements can produce at decent looking screen at a fraction of the cost.

My current grey-gesso screen was made by mixing all 4 ingredients at once: gesso, iridescent silver, iridescent white, and grey. I wonder, though, what results I would get if I used a base coat of grey gesso on enhance black level, and then put a translucent layer of iridescent silver and white to enhance the screen gain. Stay tuned: Emarc grey-gesso II screen arriving to a theater near you. :)
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post #275 of 514 Old 07-31-2003, 11:17 PM
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Just curious, what are you guys actually aiming for? Is this DIY mixture supposed to be equivalent to a Firehawk or a Silverstar? From what I can tell it sounds more like you're getting results equivalent to HCCV or Greyhawk material. Would that be pretty accurate?

Also curious about ambient light rejection and viewing cone. To those who have been successful with this ddog mixture, are you getting the same kind of ambient light rejection and gain that you'd see with a Firehawk screen.

Quote:
Originally posted by Emarc
My current grey-gesso screen was made by mixing all 4 ingredients at once: gesso, iridescent silver, iridescent white, and grey. I wonder, though, what results I would get if I used a base coat of grey gesso on enhance black level, and then put a translucent layer of iridescent silver and white to enhance the screen gain. Stay tuned: Emarc grey-gesso II screen arriving to a theater near you. :)
That's what I was thinking in my thread above. I was wondering what would happen if you took a dark gray base, and added a clear reflective layer on top of that. Your idea sounds even better.

Another variation on that idea: instead of a silver-white mixture for your top layer, what about a mixture of silver and clear glaze?
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post #276 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 12:55 AM
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Quote:
Just curious, what are you guys actually aiming for
A $1,000 to $2,000 screen for $200. Myself a grey screen to enhance blacks with great colours and a gain of more than 1 :cool:

Mainly I like to mess around in my workshop. I could have bought HCCV material for what I have spent on paint so far, but that is not much fun. I am also reinventing the wheel. The wheel is called Goo, but see HCCV above.

Quote:
what about a mixture of silver and clear glaze
Working on it. So far the top layer has to be matte or it will hotspot.

Emarc

I have two test screens made with gesso. One is your recipe and the other has tons of silver. I have made a top coat of 20 matte medium to 1 silver and will test it on your grey silver gesso tomorrow. The top coat had no effect on the high silver content (180 ml high viscosity silver, 240 gesso, 60 floetrol 60 water) on canvas primed with gesso. It was almost white and had a gain of 1. The grey silver gesso screen looks great and the grey level is about right. The gain is about .8 I hope that the top coat will incease gain. The gesso works better than the matt polymer medium/high viscosity acrylic white and silver that I had been working on. Screens with good gain and that were grey hot spotted too much to be usefull.
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post #277 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by DenisT
Working on it. So far the top layer has to be matte or it will hotspot.
Look at Tryg's photo of the Firehawk material (see attachment). It looks to me like the bottom layer is a matte dark grey. The layer on top of that appears to be a clear emulsion with tiny silver particles mixed in. Perhaps the clear emulsion is non-reflective. Maybe the reflection only comes from the silver particles mixed into it.

So perhaps we're on the right track. Paint your flat dark grey basecoat(s). Let dry. Paint over that with a mixture of the mettalic aluminum paint and some kind of flat clear medium. Is there such a thing as non-reflective glaze?
LL
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post #278 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 10:00 AM
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mbaxter,

I demo'ed spiderman to the family at 124" diagonal. They loved the size and I can't justify the cost of a 124" silverstar, so I'm "stuck" with DIY. I actually like the challenge anyway, and it looks like I may use it as an excuse to upgrade my HVLP sprayer to something more respectable :)

Eric.

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post #279 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Is there such a thing as non-reflective glaze?
Maybe the "clear flat base" that ddogg referenced earlier? I've seen the stuff at Home Depot but didn't buy any 'cause they only seem to sell it by the gallon and ddogg was talking about adding "knifes" of it to the mix. ;)
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post #280 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 10:43 AM
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If a Canadian quarter is the same colour as a Yankee quarter, I think that we are on the right track with colour. I don't have samples, but the silver grey gesso is simiar in colour to the Ralph Lauren Silver bell DS05 (Home Depot) which is supposed to be close to the HCCV. I'm off the home depot to get stuff for the ddog recipe -no stone unturned.
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post #281 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 10:45 AM
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JDLIVE,

Go to Wal-Mart, they sell it in quarts.

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

http://home.1asphost.com/ddogtheater/
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post #282 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 11:14 AM
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Eric,

I got your PM, I just got back from Vacation (spent a week in Mammoth) so bring me up to speed on your screen.

To whoom it may concern my screens color is between the GreyHawk and the FireHawk but performs more like the FireHawk.

If your guy's start with to dark of a Base then the darker(the Whites) the screen will be.

Look at it this way, if you paint a very White base(for good bright accurate colors) and then a Metallic/Clear and a little White over the top(for good light rejection/those inky Blacks and good shadow detail).You wont loose the punch of the whites & colors and then the top coat acts kinda like an ND Filter in a way by keeping the Whites under control so they don't Bloom.

Ddog!!

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post #283 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 11:32 AM
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DDog,

My big problem is streaking (not running anymore). I just can't seem to get even coverage with my Wagner finecoat $99 HVLP sprayer. You can check my previous post for the trials and tribulations.

This weekend I'll have to either start over with white, or try a rollered coat on top of what I already have (of the silver/glaze/white).

After that, I'd have to run up to Home depot for more silver!

BTW DDog, what kind of HVLP sprayer do you have?

Eric.

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post #284 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 12:22 PM
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eameras: if you have an air compressor - the wagner HVLP conversion gun is a nice gun - I believe it is a step up from the gun than came with your fine coat - it is the same gun that they sell with their higher end HVLP turbine systems and I believe should have better spray control than the gun you are now using. Check out gleempaint website - they say that you can spray latex WITHOUT thinning with this gun. I am saving to buy one myself to try.
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post #285 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 03:54 PM
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Eric,

I sprayed my screen in my booth with the same gun (HVLP) I spray cars with.

I think what I would do in your case is to mix 30% Silver/60White(cut with Flowtrol if it's working for you) reduce a little more then normal. When you start to spray turn up the air and step back the gun about a foot or so and spray(dust) the screen in cross hatching motions(different angels then your streaks)trying to even out the Metallic and this should take car of you problem.

Ddog!!

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post #286 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 04:17 PM
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DDog,

Unfortunately my finecoat only allows me to adjust the amount of paint, not the airflow :( . I'm suprised by the 30% silver /60% white recommendation, won't that be really light gray? Should there be any glaze in there? I was thinking of going with a roller, but I could be convinced to give it one more try with the finecoat.

I think what's likely to happen with the finecoat, if I do pull pack from the wall, is that I will get a lighter coat. Do you think that'll do the trick?

From what I've experienced with the finecoat thus far, with latex paint, the further away I am from the surface, the more the paint tends to wind up thicker at the sides of the spray pattern. The closer I get, the more even it appears at the time of spraying. But afterwards, I wind up with streaks anyway. It's probably all because I have very little adjustments.

Eric.

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post #287 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 04:28 PM
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Here's a closeup of my streaks:
LL

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post #288 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 04:29 PM
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and a shot from further out:

(these pictures really make the streaks stand out!)
LL

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post #289 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 05:52 PM
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The added White will help even everything out and because the paint is reduced so much it won't change things to much. Don't use any Glaze because you need the paint to cover just enough to get rid of the streaks.

Make sure that you spray in a different direction then the streaks.

Ddog!!

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post #290 of 514 Old 08-01-2003, 08:28 PM
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Oh boy! You always said to experiment, so I did (got too anxious and couldn't wait). I didn't put quite that much white in, and did put in some glaze. (I was running mightly low on silver). It looked a bit light to me, so I added a dozen or so drops of black to the mix.

I probably couldn't recreate the exact final mix to save my life, but so far it looks REALLY good. It seems pretty dry so I watched a bit of star wars I & II, and spiderman. So far, so good. Just to be sure it would dry evenly, once it was pretty close to dry, I got out a clean 4" foam roller, and rolled it with that, then with a clean 3/8" nap roller.

There's zero hotspotting (none!), and it looks pretty damn solid. I compared it to the hawks and silverstar again, and I have to say I'm pleased. It rival's the hawks, and I like the blacks better than the silverstar, but the star is still brighter (and about 50x more expensive!).

Well, I'm now a happy camper, onto other things! Thanks a million gang!!!

Eric.

The following picture doesn't quite do the screen wall justice, the texture really wound up great after all:
LL

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post #291 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 06:32 AM
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The next morning...

When projecting a completely lit test image, If I strain, I can notice a few spots that are slightly darker than the rest of the screen, but it's all good for screen 1.0. Eventually I'm going to do a painted canvas/muslin screen over a frame, but that will come later...

So my big advice for those spraying... it's worth it, but remember to have PLENTY of good light during spraying, and practice, practice, practice...

Eric.

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post #292 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 06:56 AM
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Thanks ddog, I'll check Walmart. I think I may have meant quarts, not gallons, tho. ;)
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post #293 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 08:09 AM
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Eric,
I'm glad you like it,......I knew you could do it!. So how's the light rejection? I bet it's way better then the SilverStar?

JDLIVE,
Get it at Walmart, it's cheaper.

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #294 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 09:17 AM
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Would someone mind posting again the names of the products used in the basic 50% silver, 40% glaze and 10 white ddog formula?

Thanks.

Alan
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post #295 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 11:02 AM
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AlenS,

BEHR Premium Plus with style Metallic silver Part#743 (sold at Home Dept).

Behr Faux Glaze #748 (sold at Home Dept).

The brightest Semi Gloss White you can find

If you are using a LCD PJ then you need to put a couple small drops of blood Red in also.

I hope this helps.

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #296 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 12:05 PM
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ddog I think I found it....Latex Flat Wall, medium base? It says "must be tinted before using", so I assume that means it's the "clear base" that I want? And I would go with a final coat of glaze and just a bit of this base to cover any hot spots?

edit: went back through the thread and found you had used 5053 accent base, I bought 5051 medium base. Should this work OK?
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post #297 of 514 Old 08-02-2003, 04:15 PM
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I bought the Accent Base because it had a White tint to it. I'm not sure but, I think that the medium base has an opaque tint to it.

Ddog!!

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post #298 of 514 Old 08-03-2003, 05:58 AM
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Thanks, ddog.

Alan
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post #299 of 514 Old 08-03-2003, 12:02 PM
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Hmm...well I opened up the medium and it is whiteish. I'll find out soon if it works for the final coat. I was about ready to cry yesterday, had a nice coat of the silver mix rolled on and I'm looking over the end result and I see two dime sized white spots in the lower left, as if someone had touched the screen - but I know I didn't touch it! As you know, you can't "touch up" this stuff once it's on the wall. :mad: Not sure what happened, maybe a bubble of glaze or something. I was able to "fix" it a bit, still had a light area that didn't look too good. But once I turned on the projector, it's not noticable, fortunately. Have some roll marks visible, hoping the glaze + base covers them up.
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post #300 of 514 Old 08-03-2003, 03:59 PM
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OK, the glaze/flat base went on pretty well and helped get rid of the roller marks and couple of hot spots. It still looks a little "dirty" though on bright scenes. It actually looks better from up close than further back. I'm thinking maybe another coat with a little more flat base this time? Or maybe some Windex? ;)
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