DIY Aluminum paint rolls well. . . but. . . - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 514 Old 07-09-2003, 06:50 PM
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I don't have the link right now, but I believe it was
the company that sells the PVC Dazain screens. They have
all sorts of silver fabric thats used for staging, cheap to.
I'll check when I get home.

Bruce


silver fabric

more fabric
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post #182 of 514 Old 07-09-2003, 10:30 PM
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I've played with a lot of different materials. I found one once that was actually a honest to god......matte finish pearlescent rubberized blackout cloth. I swear. On a stack of bibles.

It was overstock. End of production. End of run. End of existence. No product number. No stock number. But I still have it.

The most I ever had was 19 different screens around the house at once. I usually had about 5 large painted boards stacked in the room somewhere. I even destroyed a original abstract oil for the frame.

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
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post #183 of 514 Old 07-09-2003, 11:14 PM
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KBK, I hope you are not just pulling my leg...

Man, may be there is some blackout cloth manufacturer who could be coaxed into producing a pearlescent blackout cloth. I mean if those Parkland guys are willing to do some special run for us, may be the blackout cloth guys might as well.

Does anyone know who produces blackout cloth?

I would easily pay 3X to 5X for a pearlescent blackout cloth. I am sure many on this board would as well.
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post #184 of 514 Old 07-10-2003, 05:17 AM
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That would get you back to the cost of finished screen materials...and there are plenty of those to choose from which would be better than this stuff.

It would have the lower price of Blackout cloth, but also the cheap filler products that are used in the blackout cloth. The stuff works,..but the low grade ingredients in the rubberized coating mix absorbs lots of light...and color-shift slightly. If it was the right stuff.. it really would have the costing of standard screen material. I was worried about it..until I tried to use it and compared it directly to our product. When I found it in the store (a smart business guy ALWAYS looks for anything that might sneak up on him) I was very worried. Then I started using it for bit. Not so hot.... Whew!

But it did exist....

I can take a photo if you don't believe me..

Ken Hotte

"Never forget that only dead fish swim with the stream." -- Malcolm Muggeridge.
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post #185 of 514 Old 07-10-2003, 07:21 AM
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I too have been trying DDogs formula, but having a hard time without the correct sprayer. I've got tons of stripes in my screen currently. Can you put too many top coats on or should I start over with a better sprayer. It seems like once you have a "stripe" you just keep making it darker by spraying another coat.

As for screen material - I was taking my boat to the storage place this weekend and noticed several flavors of boat covers that might work. There is one in particular that is silver and appears to not have any seams and is very stretchable. I don't know what brand or price, but might be something someone wants to try.

Scott
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post #186 of 514 Old 07-10-2003, 08:42 AM
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hungup, are you thinning out your paints w/ water? Its much easier to get things to lie down smooth and w/o stripes if the paint is thinner.

I thinned my paint out quite a bit, then pretty much went nuts while painting -- left/right (let dry), up/down(let dry), diagonal(let dry), other diagonal -- then I started making random swirling motions w/ my sprayer -- thinking the eye has a much tougher time picking up random. :)

But each of my coats was pretty darn thin. For me, when the paint got too thick, I start having a tough time w/ hot spots and sparkling -- and I was too lazy to do a top layer to tone it down. :)
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post #187 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 03:39 PM
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Well after reading tons here on AVS about screens I've started building the DDog special:) I started off with a sheet of 1/2 MDF that I cot cut down to 84" wide so I'll have a nice 2" black boarder around the 92" diagonal screen when its all said and done. I primed the MDF with some white killz paint and sanded that witt 320 grit with my palm sander and then I've been applying a pure bright white base paint on top of that. I started out using a small foam roller but I wasn't happy with the results so I went and bought a cheap Wagner sprayer to see how that did. Its taken a few attempts but I've finally found a good setting on the wagner and I'm getting much better at getting a smooth coat. Interestingly enough I'm finding the foam roller is great at touching up the odd drip spot or the like with very light pressure (just the weight of the roller). I sometimes go over the roller spot one more pass with the sprayer but most times its not needed. Anyway the last coat of white is drying now and I've already mixed up the grey metallic paint so after dinner i'll start spraying that...wish me luck!
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post #188 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 05:01 PM
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andrew,

Make sure that you take your time ,.........and apply thin even coats.

Ddog!!

Oh, and after each pass look at the tip of the gun and if it looks like the paint might drip on the next pass then wipe it off.

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

http://home.1asphost.com/ddogtheater/
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post #189 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 05:20 PM
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ddog you have no idea how much that info would have helpped had I seen it before I screwed up....I finally got a nice smooth pure white surface on the screen board that I was very pleased with and started to spray on the silver grey metallic paint only to get 95 percent done and have the sprayer dip a few drops on the screen...no problem I thought I'll smooth them out with the foam roller and touch it up again with the sprayer...no dice the roller picked up the paint leaving a nasty looking mess that I'm going to have to sand down tomorrow when its dried....so close yet so far! On the bright side the part that didn't have a problem looks like it will make a great screen. I guess I'll try spraying it leaned up against the wall tomorrow so if the sprayer does drip it won't be onto the screen. I will also turn down the pressure a lot...I used up a lot of paint (all of it!) which is likely why I couldn;t smooth it out with the roller and when I ran low that's when it started sputtering. I was checking for drips most of the time though...oh well live and learn...might as well learn on "cheap" paint vs screen goo!
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post #190 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 05:39 PM
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Sorry to here it,......But I had a feeling.

Tomorrow, Sand the hole screen not just the area that has the drip.

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

http://home.1asphost.com/ddogtheater/
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post #191 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 05:52 PM
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I have been following this thread with great interest, as I have recently completed painting my blackout cloth using Emarc's gesso based mixture by rolling the paint on. No problems at all with getting even coats. My only compaint is a lack of brightness in the white areas.

I saw the Faux Glaze and Metallic Silver sitting in my Home Depot today. I take it the consensus is rolling DDog's paint formula onto blackout cloth will not result in even coats and obvious hotspotting? You must use a sprayer, can someone confirm, please?
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post #192 of 514 Old 07-13-2003, 06:54 PM
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I think the problem is that it's very hard to get an even finish (no roller shrokes) because of the Metallic. But I do think that if you paint the screen White ( do the 1st step the same) and then do a coat of 3 even parts White , Metallic & Glaze, put a drop of Red and a dash of Flat Base you should be able to achieve good results.

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #193 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 06:09 AM
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I found that there is no way to roll on this paint. I think because of the glaze more than anything. Every stroke of the roller is visible. The paint is somewhat clear so if you do a bunch of horizontal strokes then a bunch of vertical strokes it looks like checker-board - then if you do diaganol strokes over that it looks like checkerboard with diagnal stripes. Maybe eventually you'd get it covered, but to me it seemed it would always show the strokes beneath and I'd never get it right. Plus the roller would actually remove paint - like the faux finishing technique.
My experience is you'll need to get a sprayer. I ended up going to Lowe's this weekend and bought a cheap sprayer kit for my air compressor (made for like auto paints, but I figured I give it a try). That did the trick for me. Several coats later the screen was finally a nice solid grey color. Got it hung on the wall and picture looks great.

Scott
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post #194 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 07:21 AM
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Uh, I have a not-so-nice way to solve this rolling problem. Go to Home Depot or Menards and buy yourself a powersprayer. The Wagner Ultra (I think it was $99).

Play with it for a day or two to get the feel of how it works.

Do your screen with this sprayer.

Return it.

I actually did this for the first screen I did -- and returned the sprayer for a justified reason. It does overspray alot and I can't see using this for inside your home.

However, after my first screen didn't turn out the right way, I went back and bought one and I'm keeping it.

So I would say, don't bother rolling -- if you can do it -- more power to you, but the best results I could get were from spraying.

And I did five or six versions of the screen. While some of the formula's needed changing, I NEVER had streaking of any type or globs of paint. Occasionally the sprayer would "spit" a small amount, but if you touch it up with a brush, you NEVER know.

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post #195 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 09:35 AM
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Hey Joe,

How did the filter work out for you?

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

http://home.1asphost.com/ddogtheater/
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post #196 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 10:23 AM
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Ddog,

It's AWESOME. Do you believe it? I'm actually HAPPY!!! I left the room last night, and I said to myself "Okay! I'm done with the video! On to the audio!!"

CAn't thank you enough for all your advice. You know, I actually ended up using the CC05M filter you suggested, AND I added a filter called a "Neutral Density +2" filter. It's kind-of a polarizing filter, but for Video. If you've never tried one, I'd pick one up. It REALLY added deep blacks. It cut down the brightness a bit, but I find I like the picture a little less bright. It adds details and cuts the white blooming (to me).

SUCCESS!!!

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post #197 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 11:05 AM
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Hey!!!!!!!!!!! Glad to hear it!!!!!

I do have a ND filter also, and will you know how it is ,......it goes on and off on and off

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #198 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 11:11 AM
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yes. it's a vicious cycle.

I've made a vow. I'm not touching the projector anymore except to clean it. Sooner or later you have to just enjoy it and leave it as-is. And as of right now, I'm extremely happy with the results.

I'm all set!!

(P.S. I don't know why ANYONE would buy a screen. I've gotten samples of HCCV and Cinema Vision, and next to your screen -- well -- I'm just glad I tried before I buyed!!) Congrats on a great screen formula. You should really package it and sell it. You'd give GOO a run for their money.

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post #199 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 11:33 AM
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I was at Lowe's the other day and I saw Silver Faux Glaze (the brand was Decorative Designs, I think). What's everyone's thoughts on this product and is it a possible alternative? I'll probably give it a try and see if it helps condense the steps to Ultra White Base, then Silver Glaze (maybe adding a touch of flat white if necessary).

Rexx
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post #200 of 514 Old 07-14-2003, 06:22 PM
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Well I attempted to sand down the silver mess but it just wasn't going to work so I flipped the board over and will paint the other side:) I've already primed it and have just finished spraying on the first coat of pure white....so far so good.
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post #201 of 514 Old 07-15-2003, 07:44 AM
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I saw the Metallic Silver sitting on the counter at Home Depot and decided, "what the heck!" So I picked up a liter of that, the glaze and semi gloss. We'll see how it goes this weekend....I was thinking of ordering some Goo, but I'll gve this a go first. ;)
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post #202 of 514 Old 07-15-2003, 10:37 AM
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Hey Joe,

Thank you very much, for the wonderful compliment.

Just think about 2 weeks ago you couldn't even spell "painter" and now you are one!

Ddog!!

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #203 of 514 Old 07-15-2003, 05:00 PM
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I managed to get a fresh coat of base and white on today and I just sprayed on the first coat of silver that seems to have gone on much nicer this time. I leaned the screen up against the wall so no drips would land on the screen and also sprayed a strip then cleaned the nosel...I should get another coat on tomorrow when this one dries and then I get to start building the boarder and masking systems...not 100 percent sure on how I'm doing that yet but I've got some idea's to think over.
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post #204 of 514 Old 07-15-2003, 10:35 PM
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Finally got a chance last week to paint (hand rolled) my screen after my sample screen using ddog's formula turned out pretty good. This time on a 86" diagonal screen where it has at least 10 layers of previously experimented paints. I finally understand why people kept saying you needed to spray, not roll.

The result was similar to my 2nd experiment with Rustoleum Silver (my 2nd failure). Picture was too dark (I had to paint twice to get it even) and still sees unnatural shinning due mainly I think to the uneven surface. Painting another layer of glaze will make it even darker as comparing to my Firehawk sample.

Without giving up, I went to HomeDepot and ready to plunge down a hundred dollar to get a Wagner...but I had 2nd thought…I was pretty happy with my White Sealer screen so I hesitated.

Over the weekend I saw 2 HDTV movies, One on ABC and another on CBS, using my 3+ year old glass beaded Da-Lite screen (as I didn't have a good DIY screen anymore). I was presently surprised at the brightness and contrast that I have missed for the last couple months trying to get a cheap Firehawk . I also saw black as absolutely black…but a glance to my screen border revealed that it’s not really that black.

That got me into thinking and came to the following conclusion: All screens response linearly. Some screens like the glass beaded one can concentrate light at the expense of reducing the “viewing cone†as Tryg put it. The Firehawk moves the brightness level down in order to get the black but at the expense of the white. When comparing to my glass bead, the Firehawk’s white looks yellowish but when watching the movie it looks white because my brain automatically adjusted it. Thus the same is true for the black on my glass bead. If I saw very black on my glass bead and absolutely natural sky blue, why do I need a Firehawk?

I kept remembering how great the final scenes of the CBS movie The Mask of Zorro looked…bright pictures and very film like; so I just ordered a slightly larger glass beaded custom cut screen material for $100 shipped because I simply don’t want to cut my original glass bead as it’s so cheap to order one. Yes I read Tryg’s opinion on glass beaded but hey I didn’t wash my original all these years.

Tryg’s fondness with Silver also influenced my decision. Now I like higher gain screens more. The Silver is too expensive. The High Power is likewise. The Glass Beaded is the least expensive high gain screen that everyone can afford.

Now I am back to where I started but more educated. Tuition for the knowledge: ~$100. But with the Fun I had, it's worth it.
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post #205 of 514 Old 07-16-2003, 06:38 AM
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Well all was going well with the screen again...right up until the last 5 seconds when I got another spit at the screen as the paint levels got low. I was just thinking that I'd better stop soon and then it sputtered. I was upset that once again I'd come so close yet so far....so now I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I got a price on some DaLite high contrast from Jason and it isn't that expensive so I might just swallow my pride and admit I would be better off just buying the material. I have some samples coming anyway from both DaLite and Stewart (not that I could afford it) so we'll see what they look like and go from there.
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post #206 of 514 Old 07-16-2003, 09:27 AM
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Hi Andrew,

I think I've spoken with you over at Club Rotel?? Anyway, if I were you, I wouldn't get the HCCV screen -- not because of cost -- but quality.

I followed Ddog's instructions and I have a screen that I feel is actually better than the HCCV sample that I received. Black levels are a tad-bit lower and white's do not suffer from the "sparklies."

Believe me, I know it's a pain, and it can be frustrating. But I would get yourself a paint sprayer ($99) play with the sprayer for a while to get the feel for it, and start over. You're this far already, I wouldn't give up yet. You'll be pleased with the results...

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post #207 of 514 Old 07-16-2003, 10:51 AM
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Hey guys, lets not forget about the aumbent light rejection witch IMPO the HCCV sucks at.

Ddog!!

Hang in their............I didn't become a Painter over night and niether did Joe.

I know you can do it.......Keep the fath! Br O.

To see pictures of my home theater & screen shots click on the www icon at the top or go to:

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post #208 of 514 Old 07-16-2003, 11:47 AM
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I second that!!

My wife and I were comparing the Ddog screen to the samples from DaLite, and even my wife noticed Ddogs formula was better. (On this forum, I see that when the wife notices it, it seems to mean alot... :-)

I quote Myagi from Karate Kid -- "Smooth strokes. Up, Down." :-)

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post #209 of 514 Old 07-16-2003, 12:17 PM
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"I think I've spoken with you over at Club Rotel?? "

Right I moderate that board:)

I had an idea this morning that since most of the "bad" area was at the bottom of the screen if I shifted my proposed screen area up to the very top and left a full 4" boarder on the bottom I'd cut off a good bit of the problem so I went to work sanding down the bad area and I'll see if I can touch it up so it won't be as noticable.

On that note I get the impression that this stuff is somewhat transpartent revealing the uderlying white paint below? It might change when I get the PJ on it but with my lights in the workshop I don't see how the lights going to get though this paint even with the glaze in it...it seems very opaque to me. I've also got about 1 liter of the forumla on the 49 * 84 screen...how much did you guys use?
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post #210 of 514 Old 07-17-2003, 08:38 AM
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I couldn't estimate in liters. I applied three thin coats of each. 3 coats of the semi-gloss white, and 3 coats of the silver/glaze/white/red/base mixture.

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