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Require some advice on my DIY options

1K views 12 replies 2 participants last post by  snorbaard 
#1 ·
Hi everyone,

I'm going the budget DIY route and for starters I will be building a 72" (1600x900mm) screen using 20x20mm aluminium profiles, the frame will be covered with light grey spandex - backed with black blackout cloth - stretched over it. Eventually I would like to build something better.

I've only had my projector (Optoma HD142x) a couple of days now and coming from a 1280x800 LG DLP LED projector the image sharpness and brightness is impressive, however, the blacks are a bit disappointing, i.e. noticeable light bleed from the projector in pitch black areas. I imported it from Amazon for a good price and there are no other good options locally so I'm keeping it.

While I am waiting for my aluminium profiles to arrive I am projecting against a matte white wall. All the other walls and ceiling are covered in white paint so the projector creates a lot of ambient light by itself due to reflections. I want to improve the perceived contrast and enhance the blacks and it will need to combat ambient light coming from the side. I don't require very wide viewing angles.

I've been searching and phoning around but I can't get any decent projection screen material in my country, I found Stewart, Elite Screens and Grandview agents locally. Only the former two have fixed frames with ALR material but they don't sell the material seperately. According to the local agent Stewart flat-out refuses to ship only the material (quite odd seeing that I know someone who imported Firehawk G2 back in the day for a DIY screen). To give you an idea, a Stewart 100" Firehawk G4 fixed frame costs the equivalent of $4850; the Elite Screens 100" Cinegrey 5D fixed frame costs $760, much better but is still way more than I would ever spend on a screen.

So, my only options that I can think of now is:

Import better material, unfortunately at very off-putting shipping tariffs.

128" 2.35:1 Carl's ALR @ $129.95 + $111 international shipping
OR
53x126" 2.35:1 Carl's ProGray @ $74.95 + $111 international shipping
OR
Elite Screens Up To 135" (16:9) Cinegrey 3D @ $99 + $174.84 international shipping. This is a special order from B & H, so it might get cancelled.

Alternatively, I can import 15x (2 oz) FolkArt GunmetalGrey for $26.55 + $14.84 international shipping from Amazon and then attempt to create a DIY paint. I will need to find something suitable to paint on, and also a sprayer if required.

Any advice welcome :D
 
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#2 ·
The sprayer would be required for the FolkArt metallic+matte polyurethane mix..and a really smooth white wall or similar surface (I've had a lot of trouble so far with spraying onto BlackOutCloth).

Do HomeDepot or Amazon or Lowe's ship quarts of PPG tintable metallic or Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver for a decent price?
Either of those tend to be a little easier for rolled-on mixes.

Your screen-size and projector should make things easier than they'd otherwise be..so that's nice.
 
#3 ·
Are Wagner sprayers like the Control or Opti-Stain (the small plastic models, not their metal-tip big brothers) available?

Can you get any smooth thin wall panels like MDF or ThriftyWhite, or would it be acceptable to smooth and paint a 72" section of the wall?
 
#4 ·
Hi Ftoast,

I believe Amazon ships Rustoleum Metallic Accents Sterling Silver to my location, though it is a bit more expensive, will double check.

Smoothing and painting wall is not an option at this time, also because I will be moving and renting a new apartment later in the year, so having a screen on a frame would be great.

ThriftyWhite is not available in my country and generally our wooden products are of really crappy quality (hence why I am experimenting with aluminum profiles for the frame).

I found out today that I can get what seems to be decent quality laminate (0.8mm thickness / ~0,03 inch), perhaps that could be an option to cut to size, paint and then attach to the frame? I have no experience with laminates at all so I don't know if it is viable.
 
#6 · (Edited)
That laminate sounds pretty thin (most thin panels getting recommended are around 1/8inch or 1/4inch thick), but it might still be a good surface -like you said- attached to a frame and sprayed. Rolling paint onto it might be kinda tricky because it'll probably flex with even a tiny bit of pressure from the roller..Although it'll still be smoother and less flexible than cloth.

I should probably wait and see if you can find an appropriate and affordable sprayer or if you'll be rolling paint before making too many specific suggestions.

The FolkArt can be used in rolled mixes too (thanks to your screen-size and projector choices), but I've usually had to roll using either untinted/clear flat paint base or a smaller amount of flat-grey..and the brightness from rolling FolkArt was less than other metallics I've used.
Luckily your setup shouldn't be hurting for brightness nearly as much as most, so you should be able to get away with things that others can't.

You probably don't have an EDIT option yet. It should show up (under your posts) after you have made 10 or 20 total posts.
 
#7 ·
I only mention laminate because I've seen people talk about it around here. I know those thrifty white panels are unavailable and I can't really think of any alternatives. I once purchased masonite cut to 68"x27" for a makeshift screen, I painted it, but then it warped horribly. It just seems so silly that it is so hard to find a suitable big, flat, and inexpensive surface to use. I suppose I can get MDF but I'm not convinced that that would be the best option

I've never seen any Wagner sprayers locally and there are no google hits. In fact I have yet to see something similar with an "integrated air turbine". I found a cheapie on one website and then on another local forum the consensus was that it's a waste of time. Importing one from Amazon is also not an option as we have different mains voltages

I see I can import Rust-Oleum Metallic Accents 32-Ounce Sterling Silver for $42.42 + $28.97 shipping, if this can be used for great results then I might very well consider it
 
#8 ·
Sounds like rolling it is. On the positive side, as long as it's stretched tight over a frame and you're using little/no pressure, I've heard BlackOutCloth can be decently friendly for rolling paint..so that may be a good alternative if you can't find something extra good.

Do you have locally available water-based interior house paints that can be tinted at the store?
If so, a flat/matte quart of the paint base that the store uses to make really dark colors/black can also be used untinted for a flat/matte clear. A decent alternative if you need a flat/matte-clear and matte poly isn't available or costs way too much.

I and others have gotten very nice results mixing the Rustoleum Metallic Accents SS half'n'half with flat-white or light-grey paint.
But that can be a fairly bright mix because that Rustoleum is really strong, and that metallic costs almost 2X as much for you. If you'd prefer an overall dimmer image along with some extra light-fighting, the FolkArt should also work decently.
The main problem with FolkArt metallic is that you usually need to use less than 70% of it in your mix..for example:
10oz FolkArt metallic plus 5oz (or more) flat/matte paint or clear. If you use a larger ratio of FolkArt, the mix often gets too shiny/glossy.

Because the FolkArt isn't as strong as dine other metallics but it IS more glossy, you usually can't get a terribly bright rolled mix from it without using too much where the mix becomes glossy-looking.
Your projector and screen-size, however, means a 0.6gain-0.7gain screen could actually be perfect.
Sorry for rambling.
 
#9 ·
I don't really like the sound of rolling paint over cloth. I found some other interesting materials on the websites of some suppliers in nearby towns that might work which I'm going to go check out this weekend.

Yes, I can get paint mixes done at some local hardware stores. At first I didn't understand what you meant by the paint mixes but I think you meant I have to ask them for just the untinted white (base) paint in a water-based matte (I once asked for a grey paint and they took what looked like untinted white paint and mixed some dyes or something with it to get the desired colour).

They have a machine which "shakes" a paint container, is this the preferred way to mix, should I take the Rustoleum Metallic Accents with me to the store and ask to get it mixed there, surely this will save time and get it mixed properly? I'm not too clued up about paints so if there's a preferred way let me know.

I will go read through your other thread again for some examples and then I will decide whether I want to go with Rustoleum or FolkArt but seeing that you mention Rustoleum is better for rolling I'm almost certain I will go that route with a light grey base, we can then decide on the proper ratio and shade of grey once I find a suitable material to paint on.

I just want to get on the same page, when you say "bright" do you mean the amount of metallic particles reflecting the light? More particles = more reflective and hence more bright? Am I right in saying, the brighter the mix the narrower the viewing cone and the more likelier you are to get hotspotting? How does the metallic accents reflect ambient light? Is it retroreflective (reflected toward the incident ray) or does it reflect similar to how a mirror would (at an angle the reflected ray would be away from the incident ray)?
 
#10 ·
I don't really like the sound of rolling paint over cloth. I found some other interesting materials on the websites of some suppliers in nearby towns that might work which I'm going to go check out this weekend.
That'll be awesome if you can find something. It'll be easier to roll onto and should be smoother too.
Yes, I can get paint mixes done at some local hardware stores. At first I didn't understand what you meant by the paint mixes but I think you meant I have to ask them for just the untinted white (base) paint in a water-based matte (I once asked for a grey paint and they took what looked like untinted white paint and mixed some dyes or something with it to get the desired colour).
Nice. A handy thing to keep in mind is there's usually three different "Base" options (each usually available in flat/matte, eggshell/satin, semi-gloss, gloss)..there's a Light-Base/Base1 which already starts with a lot of white tint in it, a MediumBase/Base2 which already has a small amount of white tint, and there's an AccentBase/DeepBase/Base3 which has little/no tint already in the can. All of these will look white when they're wet, but the ones without tint will turn clear as they dry.

The clearer bases are used to make darker colors while the light base starts with a lot of white already inside to ease some of the burden of mixing light colors and whites in the store because they tend to be more popular.
They have a machine which "shakes" a paint container, is this the preferred way to mix, should I take the Rustoleum Metallic Accents with me to the store and ask to get it mixed there, surely this will save time and get it mixed properly? I'm not too clued up about paints so if there's a preferred way let me know.
Any regular wall paint you buy should be shaken at the store for best results because they've often been sitting around for a long time, but taking those shaken paints home and then mixing them together by hand is perfectly fine.
The metallic paints are usually fine to mix by hand at home too because they don't separate much.
I will go read through your other thread again for some examples and then I will decide whether I want to go with Rustoleum or FolkArt but seeing that you mention Rustoleum is better for rolling I'm almost certain I will go that route with a light grey base, we can then decide on the proper ratio and shade of grey once I find a suitable material to paint on.

I just want to get on the same page, when you say "bright" do you mean the amount of metallic particles reflecting the light? More particles = more reflective and hence more bright? Am I right in saying, the brighter the mix the narrower the viewing cone and the more likelier you are to get hotspotting? How does the metallic accents reflect ambient light? Is it retroreflective (reflected toward the incident ray) or does it reflect similar to how a mirror would (at an angle the reflected ray would be away from the incident ray)?
Mostly, yes.
Hotspotting usually only becomes a problem if you're making a bright/high-gain mix that's also pretty dark-colored..so the gain/brightness of the screen is a LOT brighter than something that dark of a color would naturally be. Surface-gloss/shiny-surface paints in particular tend to hotspot, but that's why most of us recommend using flat/matte ingredients wherever possible.

It reflects like a mirror (away from the incident ray). All of the metallic paints and mixes using them that I've tried are like this; "Angular-Reflective" instead of Retro-Reflective.

Bit off-topic:
Seeing someone talking about painted screens using the word "incident" ray/angle..That's a nice thing to see.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Ftoast thanks for your excellent explanations.

I don't really see great quality wood around for DIY. I've thought about getting masonite/hardboard and fixing it to a wooden frame, but I'm almost certain it will never be relatively lightweight AND stay flat without warping and I will be OCD about it. I want it to be relatively lightweight so that I can move it around when the need arises. I'm not too keen on importing the Rustoleum metallic accents as it is expensive and will still require experimentation as I've never done this before. If I had paint and woodworking skills, or didn't require a lightweight screen, I might very well have gone that route, but I'm not really in the mood to experiment on something as finicky a projector screen. You provide great tips for doing painted screens and if things were different I would have loved to try it.

I look forward to build my initially planned frame out of aluminum extrusions, hopefully the parts will arrive this week. If it turns out to work well then I might import screen material and fix it to the frame using tarp clips and bungee cords to keep it tensioned and in place, as per Complete Success: FlexiWhite Zero Edge with bungee cords and tarp clips

What's your thoughts on Carl's ALR? Have you seen one in action? I can't seem to find any good video examples.
 
#12 ·
I love Carl's ALR material. It's darker-colored than many paint mixes dare to go while still hitting a little above 1.0gain on-axis (around 1.1-1.2gain I'd say).
Carl's ALR also has a slightly wider viewing-cone than similar colored paint mixes with similar gain, and if course Carl's is very smooth every time without any of the tricky parts that painting can have.

The only negative thing occasionally raised against it is that it can become dimmer when viewed from the sides (just like any dark-colored screen that fights ambient light) and some people prefer a weaker light-fighting screen which stays a little brighter when viewed from the sides.
Your projector and screen-size shouldn't have any problems with Carl's ALR at all.

They also offer really inexpensive samples, but I'm guessing those are still going to get murdered with extra shipping and other additional costs in your case.

Compared to the price of buying a sprayer, paint, a good, lightweight, smooth surface..Carl's ALR even puts up a good fight in the price department.
 
#13 ·

That is great to hear, and I'm not concerned with wide angle viewing. I ordered Carl's sample pack which is currently free and I paid ~$3.74 for shipping to my Aramex forwarding address in NY, which will be forwarded for much less than Carl's quote and I think all in all work out less than $20, I'm keen to try test the ALR performance.

So my aluminum extrusions actually came today and with the help of my brother we assembled the frame and carefully covered it with thick black material and grey spandex stretched over it. It took a bit of patience to get the material flat and crinkle free but it worked very well for a first try. I'm thinking that upgrading to better projector screen material stretched over the frame and held in place with bungee could work very well. I can clearly notice that the grey spandex over black material has a negative gain because everything seems darker. However, the perceived contrast is definitely better than the off-white wall, even with all the lights off. With ambient light present the contrast is better too, so I'm excited about the possibilities of a ALR material. The drawbacks for me about the spandex is it is dimmer, harder to clean, it has a notable texture, and it seems to soften the image sharpness.
 
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