A better grey screen - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 918 Old 10-27-2003, 07:58 PM
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yeah I was looking at both sides and im like, who the heck would use the textured side! ill do a scuff sand like you said CMRA to help the base stick better. thanks for the tips and I hope to post my results in a few weeks when im ready to do this. Im so excited!!

-Paul
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post #272 of 918 Old 10-29-2003, 12:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kornbiz247
yeah I was looking at both sides and im like, who the heck would use the textured side! ill do a scuff sand like you said CMRA to help the base stick better. thanks for the tips and I hope to post my results in a few weeks when im ready to do this. Im so excited!!

I, for one. look forward to seeing your results with great anticipation.
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post #273 of 918 Old 10-29-2003, 09:09 AM
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New guy here...
Long time browser first time poster.

I too am putting together a DIY ME screen. I am using an 1/8in plastic 80x60in (4:3) with an X1 projector. I put my primer and 1 coat of ME on last night, and plan on doing coat #2 tonight.

I am also making an experimental piece for a different approach. On this one I am going to try to blow some metallic powder on top of the wet paint. I have a ziplock bag filled with an Iron/Silcon alloy dust. It is fairly dark in the bag, but has a very nice sparkle when very lightly coated on something. I am guessing that it will be very hard to keep the application even, but it is worth a shot. The grain is similar in size and texture to powdered sugar.

I have no idea where the general popualtion could get some of this to try out, but I am sure some inventive board member could figure something out.

I will try to get some pics up next week of both surfaces.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..."
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post #274 of 918 Old 10-29-2003, 10:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by m3wannabe
New guy here...
Long time browser first time poster.

I too am putting together a DIY ME screen. I am using an 1/8in plastic 80x60in (4:3) with an X1 projector. I put my primer and 1 coat of ME on last night, and plan on doing coat #2 tonight.

I am also making an experimental piece for a different approach. On this one I am going to try to blow some metallic powder on top of the wet paint. I have a ziplock bag filled with an Iron/Silcon alloy dust. It is fairly dark in the bag, but has a very nice sparkle when very lightly coated on something. I am guessing that it will be very hard to keep the application even, but it is worth a shot. The grain is similar in size and texture to powdered sugar.

I have no idea where the general popualtion could get some of this to try out, but I am sure some inventive board member could figure something out.

I will try to get some pics up next week of both surfaces.

Welcome, newest member! I'm game. I'd love to see your results. CMRA
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post #275 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by m3wannabe
New guy here...
Long time browser first time poster.

I am also making an experimental piece for a different approach. On this one I am going to try to blow some metallic powder on top of the wet paint. I have a ziplock bag filled with an Iron/Silcon alloy dust. It is fairly dark in the bag, but has a very nice sparkle when very lightly coated on something. I am guessing that it will be very hard to keep the application even, but it is worth a shot. The grain is similar in size and texture to powdered sugar.


Do hang on to some of that powder. If it works out out for you, I'll request a sample and submit it to my chemist friend. Who knows, a DIY firehawk for pennies? Maybe even better, perhaps?
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post #276 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 09:32 AM
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I tried out that plain 100in 4;3 ME screen last night with "The Hulk". I only has one coat each of primer and ME, but I am very happy with it just the way it is right now. My wife even commented on how much better things looked.

I will play with the powder on my test piece tonight. My idea is to put the powder in a sock and beat/shake over the wet paint of my test piece. This should let me get a very light dusting on the surface. Wish me luck.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..."
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post #277 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 11:07 AM
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CMRA (or anyone),

My Home Depot does not carry the Interior/Exterior Masonry & Stucco Latex but they do have other brands of Glidden.

My question is how important is it to have the exact same type of paint (not color)? Could I just get a Misty Evening exterior latex? What are the advantages to using the Masonry & Stucco Latex?

Secondly I will be painting over a Melamine surface (similar to Formica). Any recommendations on primer for that specific surface?

Thanks in advance.
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post #278 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 02:00 PM
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Whew! Just read the whole thread! A great read. One for the ages.

Here's another question to add into the proverbial mix. I was thinking about streching canvas, slapping some gesso on it, sandpapering it smooth, and then applying the paint... Would a paint like that stick to the canvas or should I be using a primer better suited for latex painting? Or should I even bother with canvas at all? (I like how light and durable it is... plus it'd be easy to build a frame over it...)

Any ideas, comments, questions?
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post #279 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 04:02 PM
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Chirpie,
It may be a question of the number of coats you'll need to coat the canvas enough to get rid of the pattern inherent in this fabric. If you've got all of the necessary items, go for it. This paint (as you've seen) is only $7.50 a quart, so it's hard to go wrong.

Failing that, simple blackout cloth works in the same way and a few (that is to say a few here and possibly tens or hundreds with ddog, universal gray, etc) have successfully painted the BO cloth to create the pro-screen look.

Good luck with whatever method you choose.

Something profound

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post #280 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 05:09 PM
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I've got a Ralph Lauren grey paint on my walls that gives good results. It's called Sisal (NA10) and is a light grey. I actually bought a quart of ME and will be comparing the two this weekend. The Sisal gives much better blacks and richer colors than my blackout cloth screen.
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post #281 of 918 Old 10-30-2003, 07:49 PM
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Chirpi,

Gesso is used as a prep for painting oils and acrylics onto canvas so I guess that answers that.

You must be wanting to use canvas for reasons unmentioned, if indeed you have read the entire thread. Illuminate us.

Gesso at it's thickest, will cover the Canvas well, but I'd back the whole thing with an additional layer of Blackout cloth to prevent excessive bleedthrough. Even Parkland Plastic sheets, a almost totally opaque looking material, exhibits a almost perfect image on the opposite side, EVEN when painted with 2 layers of reflective paint. Canvas with paint is far more translucent and that means light wasted that could be reflected back into your lap.

That being said, if you apply engough Gesso and sand it carefully, you can acheive a very smooth texture. as smooth as any wall I've done I'm sure.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #282 of 918 Old 10-31-2003, 09:53 AM
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Sorry for the delay in responding.

I had an already primed and painted smooth drywall that I put a new masonry/stucco flat white base on (because CMRA used a similar paint.) Since the new local Home Depot doesn't open for a year I used the same lamp black and thalo green pigment ratio as the GLidden Misty Evening (see prior post by CMRA) in a True Value EZ-Kare flat bright-white ceiling paint (two coats.) With my HS10, HDTV and Bravo D1 DVD player people's jaws drop when they see my 110" picture. It is breathtaking. As long as you use a flat, bright white base paint I think the basic pigment for the ME recipe will work fine. I think that any base primer will work as well - you probably don't need the masonry paint - it is a bitch to roll, like glue!

John in Northern NY
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post #283 of 918 Old 10-31-2003, 10:01 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Gesso at it's thickest, will cover the Canvas well, but I'd back the whole thing with an additional layer of Blackout cloth to prevent excessive bleedthrough.

Gesso can be QUITE thick. I use a 12 inch plastic trowel to apply it to paper I'm going to draw on. Utrecht brand. I've used it to patch holes in walls.

It has a super smooth texture and is superbly durable. With proper application, you should be able to get a canvas to be as smooth as a finely plastered and prepped wall (real plaster).

Canvas is probably 10x easier to attach to a frame, as it has more even stretch properties, and the staple gun won't punch through (I have some holes in mine from that! blackout cloth).

I do agree with your statement regarding backing with blackout cloth, except that I would suggest a dense black fabric. Or, lots of gesso. You can always do a test to see if there's any shine-through.

C
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post #284 of 918 Old 10-31-2003, 11:10 AM
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Actually, and someone can tell me if this is dumb, but after the several coats of gesso and ME paint on top, I was still going to attach some kind of board on the back side of the canvas (maybe some white or gray surface gator board as we have tons of the stuff here at work) so even if light did make it through the canvas, there'd be something waiting to reflect it back...

See attached illustration (sorry, did a quick drawing and it might not make sense...)
LL
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post #285 of 918 Old 10-31-2003, 11:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by chirpie
Actually, and someone can tell me if this is dumb, but after the several coats of gesso and ME paint on top, I was still going to attach some kind of board on the back side of the canvas (maybe some white or gray surface gator board as we have tons of the stuff here at work) so even if light did make it through the canvas, there'd be something waiting to reflect it back...

See attached illustration (sorry, did a quick drawing and it might not make sense...)

you should see some of the illustrations some people provide. Heh. I wish I had access to my webserver from work - it would make explaining some stuff sooo much easier.

anyhow, that's what both MM and I were referring to - backing it with something that doesn't let light through. However, before you worry about that, test it. In a dark room, stand on one side of it with a bright light on the other.

C
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post #286 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 12:32 AM
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Just spent 4 hrs reading the 36 page screen thread! Also read the better grey screen page. What do you all know about painting the Parklands screen? Some have said to paint the slight gloss side instaed of the matte side? Also some have just painted MDF. Since weight is not a problem, do I even need the parklands?

If you don't mind, this is my plan:
10' throw from a NEC VT660 onto a "misty evening" MDF (or Parklands) 16:9 maxed to a 4x8 sheet in a basement w/ very controllable light.

Thanks in advance...

Isa 48:17 & 18
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post #287 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 06:22 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bsmt dweller
Just spent 4 hrs reading the 36 page screen thread! Also read the better grey screen page. What do you all know about painting the Parklands screen? Some have said to paint the slight gloss side instaed of the matte side? Also some have just painted MDF. Since weight is not a problem, do I even need the parklands?

<<<< ...not if you have a wall to utilize. Parkland is pretty easliy adapted to many applications. Do yourself a favor and use the smooth side. those who advocate using the textured side are a minority, and that side is impossible to evenly and lightly roughen up with sanding prior to painting. If you can't find the direction for painting Parkland, (..it's in the thread, you must of missed it. How unobservent of you! Just PM me for details.>>>

If you don't mind, this is my plan:
10' throw from a NEC VT660 onto a "misty evening" MDF (or Parklands) 16:9 maxed to a 4x8 sheet in a basement w/ very controllable light.

Thanks in advance...

Sawrite.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #288 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 01:55 PM
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John (Actonweber):

Thanks for your response. As I mentioned previously, I have the HS10 and Bravo D1 as well, but my HS10 has been calibrated using the SMART III system. Do you still think that going with ME instead of the Behr Ultra White is a better choice?

I only say that because having looked at several of the pictures on this thread comparing the two, I have to admit that most of the images from the ME seem a little too dark and a little too "blue" and preferred the images from the pure white screen.

I use the HS10 with the C40R filter for movies but remove it for added brightness when I'm watching HDTV football and playing XBOX games.

Forgive me for probably asking dumb sounding questions but I don't have the "handyman" gene in me. Are you guys buying a sheet of drywall and painting it then attaching it to the wall or are you painting the wall itself that you're showing the picture on?

This is a great thread. Thanks for all the information and I look forward to learning more.

Jimmy
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post #289 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 06:10 PM
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I have been reading this thread for some time now and thought I'd comment. I have fortunately found an equivalent to ME in Australia (they matched it somehow by referencing the codes). I have tested this on a 100 inch blackout screen with a NEC HT260 DLP projector. I am extremely impressed with the results after applying just 3 coats to the cloth.

Well results are as follows : Clearly blacker blacks, less washed out. A good 3D effect with some animation/digital movies Toy Story 2 is fantastic now, so is Star Wars and Lord of the Rings.

Colours are brighter and deeper, (no rainbow effect here - I never see it anyway).

The base paint I have used is a low sheen acrylic and I am not sure what the original ME is or should be (although the results are excellent I am not sure if I am missing out on a potentially better result.)

Anyone know what base ME has (acrylic, gloss, ect?? - sorry I am clueless with paint)

Good thread, keep em coming. (will attach a photo tonight)

Sabs
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post #290 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 06:57 PM
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Sabs - I am sure the Misty Evening base is a FLAT WHITE wall paint. I used a FLAT WHITE ceiling paint because there is more white base pigment in ceiling paint but I doubt that it makes any difference. My gallon of True Value ME clone paint had 24 units of B (lamp black) and 4 units of D (thalo green) pigments.

JimmyDaves - I assume that the SMART III calibration standards are NTSC which means they will give you the same results as the AVIA disk that I have. The standards are identical - the difference is only in the presentation on the disk. The key is to calibrate every time you make a change in your environment, e.g. paint on the wall, filters, location of the projector, etc. My drywall was simply a wall that was installed new three years ago when I remodeled and was in great shape with only a few nail holes and a chair rail attached. If you don't have a large, smooth wall there are many other materials available to hang and paint - just read this entire thread! I removed my chair rail, filled the small holes with spackle compound, sanded the spackle, put a base coat of masonry/stucco paint down followed by two coats of the light grey paint and then recalibrated the HS10. BTW, I don't think the masonry paint is required. It was simply what CMRA, the first guy with ME paint, had around.

I leave the filter on at all times for convenience and use the re-calibrated Cinema setting for DVD's and the re-calibrated Dynamic or Standard settings for HDTV. The results are astounding. And I wouldn't recommend you base any decisions on photographs you see on any forum. The camera and picture environment as well as your computer viewing settings make for a ton of variation in those pics. Make your decisions on what your eyes see on your wall! You may want to try just painting 1/2 the wall with light grey over the flat white base coat and try it with various calibration settings - particularly the hi/lo lamp, black and brightness settings.

Have fun! We watched Toy Story 2 last night and the 3 and 5 year old's mouths never closed. They just stared in awe and with mouths agape (of course they had seen it many times before on VHS)! There was a definite 3D effect, particularly in the scenes with shiny floors and reflections.

BTW, we like the grey paint so much I am painting the entire cellar room with it, including my bright white suspended ceiling panels. It reduces the reflective ambient light and makes my wife much happier than the alternative I had in mind - flat black!

John in Northern NY
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post #291 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 07:30 PM
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He has chosen..........., wisely.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #292 of 918 Old 11-01-2003, 07:41 PM
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Grey, light...medium...dark, has always been a viable choice. Adaptable to almost any situation through pigimentation levels, it has always given the most consistant results.

So well, that many would see no need to take it any further. And indeed, with the increase in the quality of PJs available for the price spent, even mediorce surfaces shine as never before.

To witt: "If it looks good, it must be."

..which is, of course fine for Mortals, but totally unaceptable for the rest of AVS thread goers, so......, let's get back to business.

ActonWeber,
Good vibes on your presentations. If the Munchkins can't move, then that speaks volumes. They ARE the consumers of tomorrow. Try Video Games, and all you'll need is to leave food beside them until their approaching 20.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #293 of 918 Old 11-02-2003, 04:08 PM
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MSMan:

I have promised my wife (actually, part of a pact with a devil!) that I would NOT let our HT become a HTPC or hook up a game console. She knows what would happen - she would never see me again as I would become immersed 24/7 in my Day of Defeat, Medal of Honor, Call of Duty and other juvenile diversions! Of course, time brings change soooooooo.............. I can always hope!
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post #294 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 12:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by bsmt dweller
Just spent 4 hrs reading the 36 page screen thread! Also read the better grey screen page. What do you all know about painting the Parklands screen? Some have said to paint the slight gloss side instaed of the matte side? Also some have just painted MDF. Since weight is not a problem, do I even need the parklands?

Thanks in advance...

I meant to reply to this earlier. People have had success painting the Parkland, however, I see no reason why you'd want to destroy the surface with paint. Other surfaces such as drywall, hardboard, and doorskin work perfectly and are easier to paint than plastic. The parkland is a ready made solution as is.
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post #295 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 07:32 AM
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I wanted to jump back in with an update on the metallic powder.
It was a resounding failure.

I am however getting some interesting results with Silver metallic glaze and ME. I have tried several different coats with various quantities of each. So far I think the best is a base coat of primer, then pure ME, followed by a coat of about 50% ME 50% Silver metallic with a final "washing" of pure Silver metallic diluted with water. The final screen is pretty nice for daytime viewing. Once again my wife commented on how bright things looked without having the room completely dark. If I were not so picky I would stop and live happily with my screen.

The problem I am now having with my test screen is getting the final "washing" coat rolled on evenly. I have to thin the glaze so much it tends to form very small globs of silver (not really sure how to describe it). I am pretty sure the way to fix this is spray it on, but I am too cheap to buy the equipment. Another side effect of the dilution is the binding of the glaze. I can take a damp cloth and wipe off the silver coat even after it has dried.

I suspect what I need to do is mix the Silver metallic with a transparrent flat base. Does anyone know if there is a real clear (not white) base I can use? I have considered a flat sealer of some sort, but I would have to be compatible with the latex undercoats.

Any suggestions?

I will probably try a couple more times to get the final coat right. I am pretty happy with the base ME followed by a 50/50 topcoat. It gives just a little extra kick, but is by no means silver.

I actually have two screens made. One is the above mentioned test screen, a 60inx80in 4:3 on 1/8in plastic. The other is a 92in diagonal 16:9 Blackout Cloth screen. It simply has has 2 thick coats of about 70% ME 30% Silver metallic. The color is a little darker than straight ME, but has almost no "sparkle". I like the results, but I probably would have gotten the same results by a adding a drop of black pigment to the mix.

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post #296 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 08:16 AM
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m3:
Could you be more specific on your silver metallic mixture? What is it and how did you apply it? And what improvements/advantages did you see when you put a coat of it over the ME?
Thanks,
John in Northern NY
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post #297 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 08:51 AM
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My silver metallic glaze came form Lowes it was approximately $8 a pint. My local store has a section in their paint department with specialty texture/applications. I found it there.

As far as the mixture goes I simply mixed about 50%SM with 50%Misty Evening. The top coat is the tricky part. I actually wet the roller first with water, then tried to maually add the glaze to the roller. The trick is to evenly coat the roller with a very small amount of Glaze, otherwise I got very thick patches of silver. I actually had another piece of plastic that rolled the mix on unitil I felt the application would be even. After that I started to roll on my screen. I think the best way to do this is keep rolling over and over as it dries. I probably used less that 2 ounces of glaze on the whole screen, but I did my best to scread it out evenly (for about 20mins).

The final result is a screen that does a great job at rejecting abient light while still keeping most of the improvements of a straight ME screen. I use an X1 in a very large room with lots of windows. In the afternoon I have enough ambient light to read a newspaper, but the projector is still very watchable. When the room is dark it has quite a punch, and the small "globs" show up too much. I guess they just distract me too much. I think I may wind up with a daytime screen for TV, (my 4:3 test screen with the topcoat), And a nightime screen for my movies (the simple 50/50 16:9).

I also have a 61in Sony Hiscan RPTV. I have not even turned it on for about a week.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..."
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post #298 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 09:20 AM
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m3: OK, if I understand you right, the material you mix with ME is a latex-base silver metallic glaze. I don't have a Lowe's nearby but I will look for a pint of something similar. I have a cellar HT with very good light control so I am not interested in trying your final glaze. I am looking to see if there is any improvement to ME alone - which I am very happy with right now. But, as they say in poker, "any hand can be improved!" I plan on trying your 50/50 silver glaze/ME mix on top of my existing ME. What improvement compared to JUST the ME should I expect? Better ambient light rejection? More punch to the picture? Do you lose any of the improved black/contrast aspects of the ME by putting the glaze mixture on top?

Thanks,

John in Northern NY
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post #299 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 09:34 AM
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If you are in a cellar with no worries of ambient light, I would avoid the topcoat. The straight 50/50 mixture gives just a hint of "sparkle" at close range. I have a friend with a Firehawk screen set up in his theater. I was trying to match to "sparkle" and color of it.

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post #300 of 918 Old 11-04-2003, 09:53 AM
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To all you guys testing silver paint, WHY? As I have observed paint is not meant to be projected on. I would have thought the screen manufacturers would have jumped on the paint theory years ago. The only way to get results to equal a screen is to get a screen, period. There are many alternatives and variations in screen to make them affordable. So why experiment with something that is not meant to be used to project on ?

vutec inside salesmanager.
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