Misty Evening + Silver "one-coat" solution - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 853 Old 11-26-2003, 12:10 AM
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appreciate all your efforts ( scoob, cmra, missman, . I been following this forum for over a month now and haven't yet patched the scrape in the wall where my screen is projected.

if I got a little inspired and wanted to shoot a pic of a non disaster maybe I could stay posting on this thread if I called the concoction "deep misty in silver mississppi under blackgiggle gesso".
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post #362 of 853 Old 11-26-2003, 04:39 PM
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There's nothing like hands-on experience when it comes to screen making. Be smart, work with small samples until you get it right. I assure you Scoob, MissMan, and I enjoy what we are doing in a way a proxy never could. First hand, that's where you want to be. Reading isn't believing, but seeing is.
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post #363 of 853 Old 11-26-2003, 04:53 PM
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He's got it right. Play around. Even us lazy men have fun doing that with easy things like paint and a roller.
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post #364 of 853 Old 11-26-2003, 05:01 PM
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Bite me.
LL

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post #365 of 853 Old 11-26-2003, 05:11 PM
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The previous screen shot was done with the Contrast on the 50-HD turned "DOWN" to 42, and the Red pushed to 58. Sharpness was set to "Sharper", and brightness was reduced to 44

Boom. Reds came out all over Bruce's teeth, (...I don't wanna know...) but of course, the Fish got pushed too far from Orange. Dark blues became "Bluer". Color was obviously close to the saturation point for the screen's reflectivity.

The dynamics are fun to see, but I still cannot abide having to zone in any PJ that costs over 3K. I guess good wall screens have spoiled me rotten. In fact, after having created screens for X1s that allow that low budget PJ to perform without tweeking anything, I will continue to prefer attempting to create easy "Turn it on and it looks good" applications that apply to whatever PJ is being used.

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post #366 of 853 Old 11-28-2003, 01:00 PM
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CMRA,
After all these nice SS of Super Deluxe, ME, Me lite, ME++ and all... i'm lost.

Would you be so kind to take a SS of Super Deluxe next to a neutral gain white screen ? Could one say that the whites will be brighter and blacks darker on the SD compared to the white screen ?
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post #367 of 853 Old 11-28-2003, 01:32 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by toxic candy
CMRA,
After all these nice SS of Super Deluxe, ME, Me lite, ME++ and all... i'm lost.

Would you be so kind to take a SS of Super Deluxe next to a neutral gain white screen ? Could one say that the whites will be brighter and blacks darker on the SD compared to the white screen ?

I'm working on it. TC, SD is not a mature formulation. Sure it's got the skin tones licked but still needs a boost in black levels to compete against the grays. Two minds are better than one, and four hands better than two. The basics are there awaiting a magic touch from some enterprising member. Will that member be you?
Don't be waiting around for a free lunch. Add to the gourmet.
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post #368 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 08:27 AM
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CMRA...for some reason I could not open your "how to" instructions at the end of page 15. Could you please either post them or e-mail them to me as either a word document or a PDF? I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,

Bill
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post #369 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 08:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by willscary
CMRA...for some reason I could not open your "how to" instructions at the end of page 15. Could you please either post them or e-mail them to me as either a word document or a PDF? I would greatly appreciate it!

Thanks,

Bill

Download the attachment to your hard drive. Open with ANY text editor. Print.
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post #370 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 09:15 AM
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Thanks, but I continue to get a blank notepad when I click on the link.
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post #371 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 09:22 AM
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Rolled a base of Grey onto a primed Wall. I'll follow up today with the first rolled coating of Pure SM onto wet sanded wall. Second coat tomorrow after Church. Top Coat of 25% Flat White w/ 75% Clear Pearlecsence on Tuesday
LL

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post #372 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 09:31 AM
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I'm looking at a 106" diagonal image area available between the Ceiling slopes. The Screen wall will be covered in #2 Black Velvet, masking the screen area. Two seperate Horizontial "Velco Adjustable" #2 BV Screen Masking Panels for 2.35:1 content will be provided (Velvet wraped on cut Parkland strips)

Grey is up.
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post #373 of 853 Old 11-29-2003, 09:49 AM
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CMRA, this screen should set the standard by which any "Rolled and Sanded" SM/White Topcoat project should be judged. The screen area is small enough to do with about $80.00 of paint total.

I'll use a 20-HD, set on low power to test the screen out, so LCD/DLP differences will be moot. No HTPC, just a Samsung PrgScan DVD

Friendly fire, that's what it is.


The PJ will mount on the board you see inset into the hall ceilingin this shot.
The central strip down the ceiling towards the screen will be painted Black, and the sloping ceilings will be the same shade of Grey as the Festival Grey used as the undercoat for the SM.

This little room, only 12' x 14' has 7 channels, 26 drivers, 4 Tactiles, the 106" screen, and a 50-HD. Sony 3000 ES Rec. (150 wpc x 7) 250 watt BIC 10" Sub. All that cramened into 168 sq ft. Virtual Reality Home Theater, that's what it is.
LL

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post #374 of 853 Old 11-30-2003, 10:45 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
[The PJ will mount on the board you see inset into the hall ceilingin this shot.

This little room, only 12' x 14' has 7 channels, 26 drivers, 4 Tactiles, the 106" screen, and a 50-HD. Sony 3000 ES Rec. (150 wpc x 7) 250 watt BIC 10" Sub. All that cramened into 168 sq ft. Virtual Reality Home Theater, that's what it is. [/b]

HOLY SH*%! Does this man have a Death Wish for his eyes and ears! I mean, I like big and loud but..........................that is suicidal!

John in NNY
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post #375 of 853 Old 12-01-2003, 06:52 AM
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Since there will only be one row of seating @ 10" back, and all sources will be HiDef, I'm assuming that with the PJ set for 'economy', and what with the slight attenuation provided by the silver metallac, that the 900+ Lumen image put up by the 50-HD will be bright, sharp, yet not so bright as to hurt the eyes. Final screen size (88" to 106') will be determined by a screening this Thursday.

As for the sound, well, it can be as low key as the Client wants it, or it can take him to accoustical environs not yet experienced by "normal' mortals. Really though, it's not maximum DBs that are the goal, but rather a complete immersion into the 'aural' soundstage, complete with a empahtic "Sensurround" like tactile presence.

I call this design; A Pocket Home Theater" and it can turn almost any Craker Box size room into a virtual reality environment.

Pictures of the latest layer of Silver Metallic are on "Friday Night Fish"

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post #376 of 853 Old 12-03-2003, 06:49 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Bite me.

What to do with those leftovers? MissMan, here's your big grin on 'silver'.
LL
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post #377 of 853 Old 12-03-2003, 10:16 PM
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'Scuse the non-reply.

Flu bug bit

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post #378 of 853 Old 12-04-2003, 07:30 AM
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Ok, I've read this entire thread in one dose. It started off easy enough for me to understand, but then I got lost when Plexiglass came into the picture.

Can someone let me know which would be the best route to go that does not include plexiglass? Is using plexiglass that much of an enhancement that I should seriously consider it?

I've written down formula after formula and my eyes and brain are going sideways now. All I want is a formula I can mix and paint without a lot of expense going into it that will give me the best bang for the buck. I was very impressed with the ME+ pictures then my eyes glazed over when I saw plexiglass

Thanks! Jimmy
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post #379 of 853 Old 12-04-2003, 08:34 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by JimmyDaves
I've written down formula after formula and my eyes and brain are going sideways now. All I want is a formula I can mix and paint without a lot of expense going into it that will give me the best bang for the buck. I was very impressed with the ME+ pictures then my eyes glazed over when I saw plexiglass

Thanks! Jimmy

Many are very happy with ME straight from the can. Simple, cheap, and easy with excellent results. Goto "CMRA posts Chicago" thread to see.
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post #380 of 853 Old 12-04-2003, 08:34 AM
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Jimmy: If you are a lazy, poor or time-challenged DIY'er like me I suggest you stick with ME or a slight variant of it. ME+ works for some but not all (it was too dark for my situation.) I diluted ME with a 1/16 dose (each ) of faux glaze and latex base. Applied with a foam roller on a drywall, it works for me. And so did ME. If I get the time and inclination I hope to try one of MSMan's SM-with-sanding applications. Plexiglass is further down the road because of skills, time and money required. This is simply MHO!

John in NNY
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post #381 of 853 Old 12-04-2003, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
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As this started off as my thread...

Jimmy, by all means paint stright ME first, calibrate using Avia or DVE, and live with it for awhile. If you notice any bothersome deficiencies (like gray "blacks" or off-whites) come back here to see what potential solutions are available for those issues.

My attempts with ME+ are to address the gray-black issue. In my incarnation of ME+, I achieve better blacks without destrying whites - exactly what I'd hoped for.

The CMRA plexi-silver solution is much more involved and requires much more money to accomplish. But the results may be worth it for some of us to achieve even better contrast ratios while exhibiting exceptional brightness - a la the SilverStar screen. Much work must be done on this one before it's a complete solution, but by the time you've identified any deficiencies with your ME screen, we'll probably be ready for you.

Keep it as simple as possible and learn to tweak your setup. Learn your limitations and those of your theater and then you can best address what you can do to help improve the situation. ME is a great place to start,

Something profound

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post #382 of 853 Old 12-04-2003, 11:55 AM
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FWIW I am currently using a formulation similar ME+ and I am very happy with it for the time being. My next quest is a screen with better rejection of ambient light.

"All you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be..."
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post #383 of 853 Old 12-05-2003, 02:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by m3wannabe
FWIW I am currently using a formulation similar ME+ and I am very happy with it for the time being. My next quest is a screen with better rejection of ambient light.

Friendly reminder that the ddog formulation does very well with ambient light.
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post #384 of 853 Old 12-05-2003, 06:13 AM
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Here's a thought I had while laying sick in bed.

The most effective screens that have good sideways ambient light rejection are curved. Even a very slight curve increases the surfaces ability to ficus light into the center. Although some viewing cone width is lost, usually the gain in brightness is worth the trade off.

All that's not news, but how about this?

Parkland curves very easily. All that is required is to build a frame for the top and bottom edges that presents about a 3 degree curvature. This could be done using varying thickness of 2x4s or by mounting the Parkland to a more rigid backing such as 1/4" Plywood then placing the appropriate sized lumber at each end while affixing the Parkland directly to the wall in the center.

No more worrying about how straight the wall is, and with the Parkland, any one of our magical, mystical paint formulas would only serve to enhance the screens overall potential.

Although this would require more effort than many on this and other threads have plainly stated that they are not willing or able to make, I thought that this overall Idea had enough merit to post for the one who might be desperately seeking a solution for a high ambient light application.

Now, shoot me down. (...and put me out of my misery. This Flu is @#&%#@$#$!)

PS. I've heard so much talk about DDogg but for some reason, no one has ever posted that formula in any of the recent threads I've been on. Illuminate me, will ya?

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post #385 of 853 Old 12-05-2003, 06:05 PM
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I'm pretty sure this is DDOG's formula (from my notes):

50% Behr Silver Metallic Part#743 (sold at Home Depot)
30% Behr Glaze (glaze# Behr Faux Glaze #748)
10% Flat Clear Base (Flat Enamel Accent Base No. 1556) (or Walmart Color Place Accent Base 5053)
8% Behr Satin White
2% Red

From what I've read, it's very tough to roll on. If I recall correctly, that's one of the reasons why Scoob5555 worked on coming up with ME+

John
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post #386 of 853 Old 12-05-2003, 10:14 PM
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Thanks johnstof !!!

That's so bizarre.

The formula I've been using lately is a Pure Silver Metallic undercoat, and 1 quart Pearlescence mixed with 1 quart 1300 Flat Deep Base, and 1 quart Flat White mixed with 1 "1/96 oz." particle droplet of Red. All Beir paints.
(the above "Particle' figure was changed on 03/13/04)

Pretty gol' dang close, 'ceptin I use Pure SM and a translucent overcoat, not a mix of all of the above. I can see how it would be better that a "flat paint" but some aspects are self defeating. Cutting the SM so much only detracts from the reflectivity aspects you spend money on to acquire.

My biggest advantage seems to be in prepping the wall surface correctly and wet sanding all rolled finishes excepting the final one to achieve a perfectly smooth texture. Smooth means light penetrates evenly, reacts to the undercoat, and can the reflect back evenly into the room.

I guess the basics cannot change all that much, and if all that has kept people from doing DDogg or Pure Silver Metallic w/overcoats is plain laziness or a lack of rising to the challenge, I can certainly see why CMRA's Misty Evening is so popular. Yet CMRA hasn't rested on his laurels, now has he? And scoob5555 has worked to improve ME with his own mix, ME+ Yes..., they both know that there has to be better and finer applications because if ME can be so good in it's simplest form, surely there must be something still missing. And there is. Looks like DDogg felt the same way as well. I only wish I could have swapped posts with him. But I SWEAR I never got the Silver metallic idea from DDogg. Tryg is the blame for that. His review posts about Silverstar and other silver/aluminum screens was all it took to get be away from using a standard HC Grey paint. Well that, and the addition of more affordable PJs that didn't have the luxury of having 2200 lumens.

Bless him. Tryg's the Patron Saint of Unselfish Effort, and a big part of my inspiration. So is/was KBK, despite my recent lambasting, deserved or not. The principles behind Goo and it's base coat / top coat application made sense to me from the start, and in it lies the creation, or duplication if you will, of my efforts to achieve comparable or better results. But for less money.

But gosh almighty. Hard to roll? What kind of lame excuse is that? Only if you can't learn by doing would that be the case. I'm no painter by any means, but all it takes is to observe whats happening before your eyes to allow one to make the appropriate adjustments. I learned quickly enough to risk throwing up (...good term...) that gooey paint on a Clients wall and having the nerve to charge them $600.00 to $800.00 a screen. I must have licked the "Hard to Roll" problem because I've yet to have a failure, even when trying something entirely new. Now, I have been taken to task by a few Posters for 'experimenting' while getting paid for it, but hey, so I I'm lucky. I guess some have that ability, and some must shy away from anything that is more difficult than blowing their noses; .......yeah, I know that's cruel, but I've read so many whiny posts lately about how hard it is to do this, and how much this or that costs, and in the long and short of it all, none of it is all THAT much trouble and expense compared to buying an expensive screen only to discover it was all hype, or at the least, unsuitable on too many fronts to satisfy one's expectations. Now THATs hard!

(BTW johnstof, my railing about "hard to roll" is in no way directed towards you or your comment, you only provided the grist for the mill.)

My sincere belief is that no one coater solution is going to win out. There are too many variables involved with both reflecting light and keeping colors correct. That is why everytime the Screen Mfgs come up with the "Latest & Greatest", it becomes painfully obvious that to achieve outstanding results in on area, they sacrifice something somewhere else. This has been the case since the beginning. And the old adage, "What is old becomes new again," runs right along with PJ screens.

So on we go, the faithful and true, seeking the Grail known as the "Perfect DIY screen solution. Only trouble is, a lot of us have become spoiled rotten over the 'one coat solution' and hence have settled for less.

And now come a new batch of converts on the "Parkland Alternative" thread worrying themselves silly and holding off their projects about how to save $20-40.00 on the one easy solution that makes sense. Buck Up! You Guys are going about it all wrong! Accept the fact that your NOT going to get out of this with spending only $20.00, but rejoice that your not going to spend $600.00+, or even $150.00.

All this is is the result of so many having bought into the PJ genre so cheaply that they cannot justify spending almost anything else. Hard to roll? Then buy twice as much paint mix and you'll have enough to cover your initial mistakes. At worst case, you'll have Paint left over. What a shame!

Totally skill challenged? Then why bother at all? Buy a piece of Parkland or Blackout Cloth and get on with your life.

A LOT of time is wasted by new posters coming onto a thread and asking for people to repeat what has already been posted and reposted countless times. Heck, I had to think twice about asking for johnstof to post DDoggs formula! If laziness was a virtue, then the DIY threads in this "Screen" forum would be among the most virtuous place on the web.

But during these tirades of mine I always offer up something in defense of the other guy's point of view. Here it is. By all means, ask away, as I did. but after asking, Just Do It! (...sorry NIKE) If your going to spend even only $1000.00 on a X1, then take the initial advice you get on the forum and run with it. Want more? Then expect to make a little more effort and (gasp!) spend a little more money to achieve something closer to perfection.

Straight up, I feel my SM/Translucent Overcoat application is a very good one. Yet what CMRA is attempting with Plexi is exciting in it's possibilities. Too tough a nut to crack logistically or financially for some others?, Certainly! But then so is smoothing a walls surface if needed from the posts I've read. Ok let's use Parkland. But wait, can we paint that? Yes, but you have to use some care. Oh, forget that, too much trouble. What if I screw up? If your that nervous, get a piece of drywall and practice first. If you didn't really try to cheap out and you bought enough paint, you should be able to do that. But instead, I see posts where people complain that they have to pay $20.00 a quart for SM (I pay $16.95) Lawd Awmytee! Just how cheap do you have to try to make a 100" screen application be. You want cheap? Paint your wall white, or better still, with straight ME and go watch a movie.

It was suggested that a few Threads be started that offered detailed instructions on mixes and application procedures. I've tried to do that each time I've stared one. And it is a Good Idea. Only trouble is, if all a thread does is sit there and offer info, and nobody posts onto it, it gets pushed down the list into oblivion. That is the root cause why so much has to be repeated. I save every instruction PM I send to Forum members so I don't have to retype is countless times. Needless to say, my PM box is always at about 85% full due to my Outbox being crammed with replies I am loath to delete.

This post has been brought to you by one wired extremely high on decongestant medicine, so if take it for what it's worth, a sniffle and a cough at best.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #387 of 853 Old 12-06-2003, 12:31 AM
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"My sincere belief is that no one coater solution is going to win out. There are too many variables involved with both reflecting light and keeping colors correct. That is why everytime the Screen Mfgs come up with the "Latest & Greatest", it becomes painfully obvious that to achieve outstanding results in on area, they sacrifice something somewhere else. This has been the case since the beginning. And the old adage, "What is old becomes new again," runs right along with PJ screens."

CMRA responds: It's no different for DIYers. We battle the same physical laws and march forward with shallow pockets too.
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post #388 of 853 Old 12-06-2003, 06:38 PM
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MM, I'm having a little trouble following you. You said;

"The formula I've been using lately is a Pure Silver Metallic undercoat, and 1 quart Pearlescence mixed with 1 quart 1300 Flat Deep Base, and 1 quart Flat White mixed with 2 "96" particle droplets of Red. All Beir paints.

Pretty gol' dang close, 'ceptin I use Pure SM and a translucent overcoat, not a mix of all of the above. "

My questions are;
1.) It sounds like you paint the wall first with SM, then with 1 quart Pearlescence mixed with 1 quart 1300 Flat Deep Base and lastly another coat with 1 quart Flat White mixed with 2 "96" particle droplets of Red. Is that correct? Also, which Pearlescence are you using? My HD has multiple.

2.) When you say; " I use Pure SM and a translucent overcoat, not a mix of all of the above." - does that mean you don't do what you said above? Do you consider the two coats after SM to both be "translucent"?

Thanks
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post #389 of 853 Old 12-06-2003, 07:00 PM
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CMRA, I've been reading through this and other posts of yours with amazement at the dedication and the results of such dedication,you too MissMan. This Plexiglass thing looks and sounds like a win-win situation for an idea I have been stewing on, especially looking at your screenshots.!! I have absolutely NO experience in projectors let alone screens but being overly mechanically enclined and determined I'm opting for the DIY screen. Problem is I'm due to recieve my new LT240K late next week and I was curious if the Plexi screen would be too much for the LT having such high lumens? Who knows it might be just the enhancement the LT needs. Guess I'm asking if you think it's likely to be an enhancement for a high lumen pj like the LT? I know this later portion is off topic but I have my own idea for an entertainment center with the screen 90"X67.5" built INTO the entertainment center(literaly). I was going to use drywall but Plexiglass would work MUCH better for this. Basically I'm building two towers approx. 22" deep and as high as the top screen needs to be on the wall, just like cabinets, to house the audio/video equipment. These tower cabinets will be sitting screen width apart. Between the two towers on the floor I am laying my CerwinVega home stereo speakers(for front center/subs) on thier sides sitting atop 2X4's on thier sides so there will be room for baseboard molding across the bottom. Anyway the towers will create 22" sidewalls on each side of the screen then I will box the screen in entirely with 22" deep pieces of plywood on the bottom of the screen (on top of the speakers) and across the top. So the screen would be in the back of a 22" deep box more or less. All inside this area I plan to spray glue and apply black felt to stop any glare from the sidewalls of the towers and top and bottom. My thoughts are the box around the screen would reduce any ambient light especially coming from the sides of the room. And due to the room setup there won't be much chance in viewing from the side anyways. Just looking straight into "The Box". Not so much I feel a drastic need to control ambient light(even though it couldn't hurt) but just to try something different I guess. The easy mounting characteristics of the Plexiglass would be ideal for this. Do you think it would be too bright, too much gain? I've been stewing on this and ready to get started. I would like to have it built before the LT240K gets here.....Any Input? PLEASE?

P.S. You oughtta see the idea I have for the regular tube tv that will sit in front of the screen and gliiiiiiiiiiiide into the neighboring cabinet when not in use!! I'll gladly post detailed pics when done.
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post #390 of 853 Old 12-06-2003, 10:05 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RTPBob
MM, I'm having a little trouble following you. You said;

"The formula I've been using lately is a Pure Silver Metallic undercoat, and 1 quart Pearlescence mixed with 1 quart 1300 Flat Deep Base, and 1 quart Flat White mixed with 2 "96" particle droplets of Red. All Beir paints.

Pretty gol' dang close, 'ceptin I use Pure SM and a translucent overcoat, not a mix of all of the above. "

My questions are;
1.) It sounds like you paint the wall first with SM, then with 1 quart Pearlescence mixed with 1 quart 1300 Flat Deep Base and lastly another coat with 1 quart Flat White mixed with 2 "96" particle droplets of Red. Is that correct?

<<<<<<>>>>>

Also, which Pearlescence are you using? My HD has multiple.

<<<<<<The only one that makes sense; White Opal >>>>>>>>>>

2.) When you say; " I use Pure SM and a translucent overcoat, not a mix of all of the above." - does that mean you don't do what you said above? Do you consider the two coats after SM to both be "translucent"?

<<<<I meant, I don't mix everything listed together and apply it as a "One Coat" formula, like ME. You bethcha the topcoat is Translucent. And to the upteenth degree. I can apply via roller three complete coats, and follow with a touch up coat, and the predominant color showing is an obvious 'silver grey'.

Thanks

Sawright.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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