Misty Evening + Silver "one-coat" solution - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 06:54 AM
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lol! I think he meant poor as in "unfortunate" not as in "lacking of money" .
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post #452 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 07:10 AM
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Hey Drac,

Ya got that right!

The only way CMRA differ in our opinions is where he keeps saying, "Get a small piece of Plexi and experiment." Sheesh! What did we do while I was there? Sit around eating "Kitchen Sink Burritos" and drinking Beer?

Oh yeah, we did do that.

But we also came to some definite conclusions, and what the minions what are definite answers.

Look to this thread for a contact on less expensive Plexi

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&goto=newpost

Do as CMRA suggests and get as big a piece of 'practice' plexi as you can 2' x 4') so as to see how you must apply your paint to get it on evenly.

But experiment? Naw. We already (burp) did all that. (Urp!)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #453 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 09:55 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Vlad_Dracule
lol! I think he meant poor as in "unfortunate" not as in "lacking of money" .

He doesn't look 'unfortunate' either.

Joe: We didn't try rolling yet, since I just purchased my fancy new "gun" but methinks it just might work well too. I plan to give it a try.
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post #454 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 11:01 AM
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I haven't looked at this forum for a while, but, upon my return... I find that my financial status has become a subject! :-) ha ha

For everyone's info, i'm not rich at all. But i'm not living out of a cardboard box, either.... FEI (for Everyone's information): I'm a graphic designer, so, even if I WAS rich (which i'm not) i'd still be trying to make my own screen, I'm a hopeless DIY'er, wether it's statues, video's, Web-sites, or movie screens :-) www.joeprzybylski.com

So, by "poor" fellow, I always assumed he meant "help this guy out!"

No worries! :-) And thanks to CMRA and MississippiMan for this great formua. I can't wait to try it out!!

iPad 2 is the coolest thing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Azkg-Bj6GVs
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post #455 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 12:04 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Gloss is not desirable.

The perlescence takes the place of gloss, and is itself dampened somewhat through dilution by Deep Base and Ultra Pure White Flat.

Clear Glaze has been used by CMRA & DDogg & others, and the use of such seems to offer no more advantage than Pearlescence, but the Pearlescence also contains some white pigment. Why complicate things by combining different materials when one mix has is all?

To my line of reasoning, you'd have to layer on about 20 coats of clear to achieve a 1/8" layer. Seems redundant, if not downright impossible, due to the fact than any one coat should/must be sanded to allow the following coat the "tooth" adhesive needed so as not to flake off, and any discrepancy in the quality of the finishes would have detrimental effects. Lastly, the reflectablity of so many coats would detract, not add to the precision to which the light would reflect back toward the room. In other words, you'd scatter more light than reflect.

But hey, your "offer" made great good sense, so your batting .500

I was merely questioning whether the distance between the layers was important, though I probably wouldn't go for 1/8" of paint! Yikes. If it isn't, then it shouldn't matter at all if you use a super thin sheet of acetate or a five-inch thick chunk of glass. In theory.

I still think I'll give this a shot, so I can be sure. Smaller chunk of plexi, small chunk of hardboard, and there it is, a side by side. I have a couple other stupid ideas to try too, so I think my batting average here is much closer to my ability to hit a baseball. We'll see.

C
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post #456 of 853 Old 12-17-2003, 02:42 PM
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....yawn.


Just got back from my "First" viewing of LOTR TROTK

Pretty spectacular. All 202 minutes of it.

And some gorgeous close ups of every character. Some great screen shots are in the offing. And some will be coming soon, long before the movie is released on DVD, if you catch my drift. The Director has kindly obliged by lingering soulfully on the main characters' faces many times throughout the movie. Even Gollum gets his due. Ah....., Arwen!

Of course, those pictures will be taken for educational and comparison related use only to determine how close our DIY endeavors are to the "Big Screen". Of course.


I'm coming Arwen, I'm coming.

(No wisecracks, please.)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #457 of 853 Old 12-18-2003, 03:06 PM
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This thread is to valuable to be on page two. Scoob, where are you? Do your duty, good buddy.
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post #458 of 853 Old 12-19-2003, 05:03 AM
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Yes, Scoob. Keep it alive. Your ME+ was what got me to play with ME on my own. And even though many of us will step up in time and money to the new SuperPlex DIY screen, many others who wish to keep it simple or are newbies will still benefit greatly from your thread. Thanks,

John in NNY
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post #459 of 853 Old 12-19-2003, 04:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by cjd
I was merely questioning whether the distance between the layers was important, though I probably wouldn't go for 1/8" of paint! Yikes. If it isn't, then it shouldn't matter at all if you use a super thin sheet of acetate or a five-inch thick chunk of glass. In theory.


Standardization is the key. Well, most of the time. We have tried 3/32, 1/8, and 3/16 'sample' sizes. All seem to close to call. 1/8" appears to be the most common. Beyond that, it's virgin territory. By all means, if you can improve SD going thinner or thicker, please share (post) your results.
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post #460 of 853 Old 12-19-2003, 06:53 PM
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Can someone be so kind as to post the best settings in their experience for the HS20 + ME combo. I am looking for optimimum brightness, contrast, etc..

Any help would be appreciated. I have completed my Home Theatre install and would now like to optimize it as much as possible.

FYI: Using the following equipment.

DVD Player: Bravo D1 w/DVI Out 720P
Projector: Sony HS20: Set to GMR Mode (Not Computer Mode)
Screen: Gatorboard w/ME 2 Coats

REgards,

Mexiace
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post #461 of 853 Old 12-19-2003, 10:25 PM
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Mexiace: Check out the "Enjoying my HS10 all over again" and "The First Official SONY HS20 Reviews................." threads in the "Under $3500 Projector" category. Lots of great reading there for those of us with HS10/HS20's - including setting recommendations.

John in NNY
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post #462 of 853 Old 12-21-2003, 08:16 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by actonweber
Yes, Scoob. Keep it alive. Your ME+ was what got me to play with ME on my own. And even though many of us will step up in time and money to the new SuperPlex DIY screen, many others who wish to keep it simple or are newbies will still benefit greatly from your thread. Thanks,

John in NNY

Indeed. This is a multi demensional thread mapping alot of DIY screen evolution an a very short period of time. Good input from a variety of sources, but even more important, motivational enough to get a bunch of couch potatoes to stumble forward to the point where sweat and imagination meet to actually produce superior screen solutions. You only think your'e retired, Scoob.
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post #463 of 853 Old 12-21-2003, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Not retired, yet. I'm working in the background, undercover. I lurk in the shadows, glean more information, then retreat to the lab to experiment more. Time is tight now, so don't hold your breath for the next few weeks...

I'm very excited about the SD/MM plexi screen and am trying variations right now, using unconventional methods. When I have anything of interest to share, you know where I'll be.

Something profound

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post #464 of 853 Old 12-21-2003, 09:44 AM
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Yeow!

Just got word I have 3 PJs to set up between Monday & Wendseday. Mon. 8:45 AM, a Z2, X1, & 50-HD will hit the FedEx PU. Of course, everyone wants thier PJ in before Christmas.

At least one of 'em will have to settle for a Lump of Coal 'cause I also have 1 Home Theater, and a 4 room House Audio system to do during that span of madness.

Obviously, the two souls whose screens are ready get first consideration. Both have SM undercoats and MM Topcoats. One has no Red Oxide, the other the most I've added so far....., 1/24th oz. to 3 quarts mix. Boy, I bet Nicole's pasty cheeks will glow with that one! Thats the Z2 LCD unit that's matched up with that screen The screen surface still does not show any noticeable red, rather a light Grey. (...but the mix did! A pretty shade of vague pink.) 3 coats of MM "Dry Rolled" rolled with a 1/4" Nap Roller did the trick. I'm starting to swear (nicely) on the "Dry Roller" method of applying the MM, which is at least 1/2 times thicker than SM, which confounds and distresses a lot of inexperienced painters.

I hope to give everyone here and on a few other threads, a present of a variety of screen shots before Christmas Eve. Perhaps they will be up on a new Thread just for them, with a link to a corresponding thread containing application directions dedicated to 'non-Plexi applications that will still use all the rest of the paint components in MM.

Christmas comes early for some:

For those who want to simplify SD/MM, the application of Grey primer on a Wall, followed by 2 coats of SM, and then Plexi mounted over that directly onto the wall, followed by the Top Coat applied to the outer surface of the Plexi might be the answer to the problems several have espoused about finding a suitable mounting board and attachment method for the Plexi.

It doesn't get any easier than this, fellas.

A aggressive (ie: lots of 'em) series of 1/8" diameter pre-drilled holes around the entire perimeter edge of the Plexi, and the use of 1- 1/4" "Washer Headed Truss screws" (verrry flat headed screws!) will allow the overlaying of the Plexi's edge with almost any 1"x 3" Fir, trimmed in Felt or Velvet. (Hand tighten all screws going through Plexi. ) You would only need to then drill through the Trim and Plexi simultaneously about 8 holes across the long pieces, and 4 holes down the sides, and use course threaded, black 1 - 1/2" Utility Screws. these guys can be covered with a dot of material, or often, when they are hand tightened down, they recess nicely into the trim material, which virtually closes up over them. Either way, being black, and with so few on use over such a large area, no one should gripe. (...but some are sure to, ya all know that, don't cha?)

One could, if they found it necessary, have a 1/2" wide by 1/4" deep channel routed out just inside the edge of the Trim board to allow what little height the screws present to recess and allow the trim board to lie flat.

Try to have the corners Mitered, and be sure to cut the corresponding pieces each about 1/16th" short to allow for the wraping of felt or velvet over the sides if the mitered edges. when done right, the two wrapped edges press together and make a virtually seamless junction. It's a class act, believe me, and if you can wrap a Present, or upholster a square stool top, it will not present any obstacle in the least.

Mounting the Plexi on a pre-primed and SM painted wall will help simplify and make easier the application, but it can be considered viable only if you have a nice flat wall, or can level and smooth the wall to flat. This seems to be a real problem for many, necessitating the learning of additional mudding and sanding skills.

Painting the rear side of a big piece of Plexi will demand that it be supported by some rigid material, especially if Rolling on the finish is to be considered. This same 'wall attachment' suggestion can be used to mount the Plexi temporally to the wall for painting the Rear side, using the pre-drilled holes and a minimum of screws. BTW, the screws as described have a almost course thread, and when enough are used, it will not matter if many are affixed through the dry wall only.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #465 of 853 Old 12-21-2003, 10:17 AM
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Why stop there? If anyone goes so far as going the wall route, safety glass becomes a viable option AND it eliminates wall contouring problems. After all, since you are sanding, and mudding, and scraping, the glass factor should be a none issue. And, as a bonus, if it fails to turn out right, simply scrape the glass and refinish. The glass will be more rigid, waveless, and of course permanent. Tempered glass might be an option too.
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post #466 of 853 Old 12-21-2003, 11:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
Why stop there? If anyone goes so far as going the wall route, safety glass becomes a viable option AND it eliminates wall contouring problems. After all, since you are sanding, and mudding, and scraping, the glass factor should be a none issue. And, as a bonus, if it fails to turn out right, simply scrape the glass and refinish. The glass will be more rigid, waveless, and of course permanent. Tempered glass might be an option too.


Ever drilled through Glass?

...and where have you ever seen a wall that HAD to be used turn out to be flat? Not often, I'm a sayin' If there was more than even a tiny discrepancy in level aspect of the surface, either the Glass's edges would stand off the wall, or the center would be subject movement. Thin Glass at the sizes we are talking about is much more flexible than most realize. This sounds like a app that should be delegated to screens under 80" diagonal.

Such an Glass application would require a trim ring designed almost exactly like a Picture frame. One could attach the bottom trim piece first, which would have a routed ledge between the trim and wall to support the Glass. Then the other trim pieces would be affixed over the Glass. (For that matter, such an app would work wonderfully with the Plexi as well.)

Only this Trim Ring would have to be solidly screwed to available wall studs to safely support the weight of the Glass. Over all, it sounds like a potential fix to the "I can't find a big enough piece of Plexi" whine that seems to be growing.

But cost, weight, and the fear factor makes it, in my opinion, a truly "Mad Scientist" approach to take. Probably the most costly method considered to date, and ripe with potential setbacks.

So what are we all waiting for? Let's do it!

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #467 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 12:39 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Ever drilled through Glass?

But cost, weight, and the fear factor makes it, in my opinion, a truly "Mad Scientist" approach to take. Probably the most costly method considered to date, and ripe with potential setbacks.

So what are we all waiting for? Let's do it!

Drill? Who would want too? Traditional mirror hardware is all you'd need to support glass.
My curiosity still wants to know how a mirror panel would work? A mirror with SD/MM on top. What could be easier than that? No muss no fuss, instant Super Deluxe...maybe?
Next stop, walmart. Got to find out. Later
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post #468 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 04:08 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
Drill? Who would want too? Traditional mirror hardware is all you'd need to support glass.
My curiosity still wants to know how a mirror panel would work? A mirror with SD/MM on top. What could be easier than that? No muss no fuss, instant Super Deluxe...maybe?
Next stop, walmart. Got to find out. Later


Go right ahead, but as you know, almost all Silvered or finished High Gain screens exhibit hot spotting issues and poor viewing cones. Remember how our first "thin coat" try at SD/MM had that pinpoint of light? Now come a mirror? Ever see what a flash bulb or flash light does when directed into a mirror? The amount of topcoat that would be needed to mute that effect would effectively be twice what was needed for the SM, and twice as thick means less light penetrating to the mirror anyway, so where the point? At the additional cost, the trade off makes no sense. Try as I may, I cannot find a secnario where a PJ with low enough lumens, and a top coats dense enough to make a difference could come together and produce results that would warrant the cost or the effort.

With the $125.00 or cost of a huge peice of Plexi being an obvious hold off for some, who do you think is going to spring for $400.00+ for a 5'x9' mirror? And have it cut to just the right size, ANd pay for it to be mounted, AND have to design a thick trim to cover all those Mirror Clamps? Etc., etc., etc. Ridiculous. Absurd. Inconcievable. So of course, I fully expect you to proceed.

Such suggestions have been made before on AVS before, and been discounted by people very much in the know as incorrect thinking and impractical. Shoot, we have enough problems getting people 'on the know' to accept SD/MM at it's face value, and that's with Screen Shots to prove it! but mirrors were a logical idea, espoused long ago, and discarded as potential screen applications, with the utilization of some of a mirrors properties instead to create something close, but not as extreame to work with

That sums up SD/MM in a nutshell.

Yeah, I know, I know.........experimentation. Well, you do it, and reap the glory or the groans. There are some things that I don't think are worth pursuing compared to getting other known things accomplished, but on the other hand, I remember being less than enthusiastic about Plexi as well.

But I have one question. Who have you finagled into giving you a ride to Wally World when the Mississippi Cab service is out of town?

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #469 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 05:36 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
My curiosity still wants to know how a mirror panel would work? A mirror with SD/MM on top. What could be easier than that? No muss no fuss, instant Super Deluxe...maybe?

CMRA,

This is exactly what I am trying with a piece of "Safety Mirror". A 3ft by 3ft piece of 1/8th inch plexi that has been "mirrorized". The weight and cost are very comparable with standard plexi.

Hopefully when the holidays are over I'll be able to get some comparison screen shots taken against my ME screen for all to evaluate.

mswauger

When you have investigated all of the logical possibilities all that there is left to investigate is the illogical. - Spock
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post #470 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 06:57 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan
Yeah, I know, I know.........experimentation. Well, you do it, and reap the glory or the groans. There are some things that I don't think are worth pursuing compared to getting other known things accomplished, but on the other hand, I remember being less than enthusiastic about Plexi as well.


Well, that's one way to look at it. Now, just suppose the results are favorable and one has access to a 4x8 wardrobe mirror cheap? The purchase of a small inexpensive mirror that can be scraped clean and reused for testing purposes shouldn't be out of the the question. If the experiment goes south, where's the loss? Besides, isn't "seeing out of the question"?
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post #471 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 01:50 PM
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Sometimes just a trip to the local HD is all it takes. Imagine this, a 12x12" mirror panel sells for $1.66. But wait, 80" wardrobe mirrors go for as little as $155.00 compete with frames. That's price competitive, is it not? So, if the mirror option pans out, if, well...you get the picture. Leave no stone unturned. My investigation continues.
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post #472 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 11:07 PM
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that is the question!

OK, those following this thread know my curiosity about mirrors as a substitute for plexi. Why?
For these reasons:
Wardrobe mirrors are more common than one might think. They are readily available at places like HD.
They are price competitive with plexiglass.
They come in 80+" sizes.
They can be REUSED and REPAINTED. That's the big plus. Once you paint plexi its a screen forever. And if you blunder the fabrication, there's money down the drain.

The trade offs. Mirrors are heavy!
They do not flex.
You drop 'em, you break 'em.
You'll need to use twice as much 'MississippiMud' ( four evenly applied light coats) to get the same effect. If you don't you'll get halos.

On with the show. Three panels again.

Super Deluxe MississippiMud edition top left. (sprayed)
MississippiMud on 16x20" mirror, top right. (sprayed)
Original Super Deluxe bottom left. (sprayed)
All atop ME grey screen. (rolled)

Pix #1
LL
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post #473 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 11:11 PM
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yep, same NK. Consistency thing you know.
LL
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post #474 of 853 Old 12-22-2003, 11:18 PM
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OK, it's Christmas. I won't over do it with too many screen shots this time. Three is enough. The point is made. Mirrors can and will work as a viable substitute for plexiglass. It's not better, it merely increases your options. (The end results are soooo close)
One more benefit: You need only spray one surface on a mirror. And, talk about perfectly smooth and flat!
LL
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post #475 of 853 Old 12-23-2003, 05:39 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by CMRA
On with the show. Three panels again.

Super Deluxe MississippiMud edition top left. (sprayed)
MississippiMud on 16x20" mirror, top right. (sprayed)
Original Super Deluxe bottom left. (sprayed)
All atop ME grey screen. (rolled)

Well from your screenshots, I must say I am drawn to the MississippiMud on the mirror. I seem to prefer the brighter more vibrant image and that one seems to do it for me. The problem for me would be that I have no spraying skill whatsoever.

Rob
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post #476 of 853 Old 12-23-2003, 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by bowbie89
Well from your screenshots, I must say I am drawn to the MississippiMud on the mirror. I seem to prefer the brighter more vibrant image and that one seems to do it for me. The problem for me would be that I have no spraying skill whatsoever.

I believe CRMA is fairly new to the spraying industry as well, for some reason I remember MM talking about it after the Photos of CRMA and MM together.

CRMA do you know the price difference between SDMMPlexi and SDMMMirror?

I do like the fact that you can start over on a mirror, makes it more appealing to those of us who have never sprayed before. What I don't like is my assumption that Mirrors are a heck of a lot more fragile than Plexiglas, but maybe that is just my imagination.

My pool project should be done by February, but I'm still sticking my head in here occasionally. Final cost for pool is $3000.
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post #477 of 853 Old 12-23-2003, 08:27 AM
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Originally posted by Kamel407
I believe CRMA is fairly new to the spraying industry as well, for some reason I remember MM talking about it after the Photos of CRMA and MM together.

CRMA do you know the price difference between SDMMPlexi and SDMMMirror?

I do like the fact that you can start over on a mirror, makes it more appealing to those of us who have never sprayed before. What I don't like is my assumption that Mirrors are a heck of a lot more fragile than Plexiglas, but maybe that is just my imagination.

My pool project should be done by February, but I'm still sticking my head in here occasionally. Final cost for pool is $3000.

You got that right. But, CMRA gets better with practice, and so will you.
No. Prices swing wildly on both. DIYers are quite adept at finding bargains, bartering, or coming up with the goods through substitution.
Mirrors are glass and as such should be handled as glass. Most come framed so it makes it easier to handle.
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post #478 of 853 Old 12-23-2003, 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by CMRA
You got that right. But, CMRA gets better with practice, and so will you.
No. Prices swing wildly on both. DIYers are quite adept at finding bargains, bartering, or coming up with the goods through substitution.
Mirrors are glass and as such should be handled as glass. Most come framed so it makes it easier to handle.

For all to know, I'm going to HD to inquire about all mirror options. More later. PS: The glass store up the road may have discards and replacements for cheap too.
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post #479 of 853 Old 12-24-2003, 12:15 AM
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Originally posted by CMRA
For all to know, I'm going to HD to inquire about all mirror options. More later. PS: The glass store up the road may have discards and replacements for cheap too.

Info update. Another member on another thread just posted info on "acrylic mirrors". Looks like a good alternative if the price is right.
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post #480 of 853 Old 12-24-2003, 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by bowbie89
Well from your screenshots, I must say I am drawn to the MississippiMud on the mirror. I seem to prefer the brighter more vibrant image and that one seems to do it for me. The problem for me would be that I have no spraying skill whatsoever.

Trust me, the equipment does most of the work. Your spraying skills will be top notch in no time at all. And, rolling is also a proven alternative, which when working on glass is MUCH more challenging.
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