Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud screen intructions - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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post #361 of 452 Old 03-04-2006, 06:47 AM
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Every time I think I have read the perfect DIY formula I change my mind. I thought maybe I should just ask the experts.

I will be purchasing a sanyo z4 and using it with some ambient lighting. (my kitchen is in the next room and some light usually spills in.) When company is over for football/baseball there will be slightly more light. The walls will be dark, but the ceiling is white.

I would prefer to paint on something other than the wall.

Can you suggest the best material and paint formula for my situation? I want to have a screen that is 100"-120" diagonal.

Thanks

BTW I prefer brightness over contrast if I have to choose.
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post #362 of 452 Old 03-04-2006, 08:48 AM
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Rxs,

the larger the size you go... the more limited your choices. at the size you looking for... i'd recommend either an expanded rigid pvc foam Sintra board, of a translucent white acrylic #2447. you can also get MDF boards in larger sizes (although they are quite heavy). or you can stretch/frame boc or some other material.

if modest ambient light combined with greater brightness is what your asking for... then use this very simple modified rs-maxxmudd formula... which is an update to Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud.

RS-MaxxMudd
24 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603 (three 8oz. bottles)
24 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601 (three 8oz. bottles)
14 oz. Behr UPW or Dutch Boy Diamond White
2 oz. Delta Pale Gold Metallic ##02624 (1 8oz. bottle)

20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
10 oz. distilled/tap water
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post #363 of 452 Old 03-04-2006, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

Rxs,

the larger the size you go... the more limited your choices. at the size you looking for... i'd recommend either an expanded rigid pvc foam Sintra board, of a translucent white acrylic #2447. you can also get MDF boards in larger sizes (although they are quite heavy). or you can stretch/frame boc or some other material.

if modest ambient light combined with greater brightness is what your asking for... then use this very simple modified rs-maxxmudd formula... which is an update to Metallic Silver/ MississippiMud.

RS-MaxxMudd
24 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603 (three 8oz. bottles)
24 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601 (three 8oz. bottles)
14 oz. Behr UPW or Dutch Boy Diamond White
2 oz. Delta Pale Gold Metallic ##02624 (1 8oz. bottle)

20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
10 oz. distilled/tap water

Um, I know I've been away and all, but when did you sneak Pale Gold Metallic in to RSMM?

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #364 of 452 Old 03-04-2006, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Um, I know I've been away and all, but when did you sneak Pale Gold Metallic in to RSMM?

i've been slowly but surely making some changes to rs-maxxmudd to reflect a closer hybrid to black flame. actually that's a very small change.

the bigger change is... have you noticed that deep base has been COMPLETELY eliminated from both black flame and rs-maxxmudd.
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post #365 of 452 Old 03-05-2006, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

i've been slowly but surely making some changes to rs-maxxmudd to reflect a closer hybrid to black flame. actually that's a very small change.

the bigger change is... have you noticed that deep base has been COMPLETELY eliminated from both black flame and rs-maxxmudd.

Yeah, and I'm glad. I always hated Deep Base. Especially that song "Smoke on the Water."

I've always been a Rolling Stones kinda guy.

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #366 of 452 Old 03-05-2006, 05:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Yeah, and I'm glad. I always hated Deep Base. Especially that song "Smoke on the Water."

I've always been a Rolling Stones kinda guy.

Unless you were being "tongue in cheek", the correct reference is to "Deep Purple"

.......Mick Jagger was never nearly so "Cosmic".

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post #367 of 452 Old 03-05-2006, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Unless you were being "tongue in cheek", the correct reference is to "Deep Purple"

.......Mick Jagger was never nearly so "Cosmic".


Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #368 of 452 Old 03-05-2006, 08:40 PM
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Thanks pb_maxxx. I will give it a try. I have decided to reduce the size of my screen so that I have more material options. Any suggestions on what is best to paint on?
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post #369 of 452 Old 03-06-2006, 10:40 AM
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Rxs,

dollar for dollar it's hard to beat a do-able or white melamie finish tile board as your base substrate. neither one needs to be prepped with a basecoat... so you can go straight to your choice of mix.

prefinished white melamie mdf boards also make cost effective solutions... although i'm not found of the weight of 3/4" mdf. try to get the 1/2" or less if you can. they do not need a basecoat either.

however, my favorite choices... are durotherm boards (from menards) or sintra boards (local plastics distributor)... which run about $30-45 for a 4'x8' sheet. again, neither of these needs a basecoat either.
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post #370 of 452 Old 03-10-2006, 09:10 PM
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I heard their was a shootout of different mixtures a while back. If anyone could help me with what would be best. I've got a Optoma HD72 which is plenty bright, but also good contrast. So I want a pretty neutral mix, it doesn't have to help too much with black levels. I have a mostly light controlled room. I want to just paint it onto my sheetrock wall. What would be a good mix for this? Since I don't need black level boost, I was hoping I didn't need to paint a silver basecoat. Is there a mix that I can just put down without having to use layers of different paint? Thanks for the help.
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post #371 of 452 Old 03-11-2006, 05:34 AM - Thread Starter
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It would seem your asking for a Mix that would not mute your Black levels in any way, but not work to assist them either.

You have to make note that the HD72 achieves it's best Contrast specs only when the Iris and Black level enhancement features are employed. These items usually wind up affecting other aspects of the image on the other end of the scale. ( Whites- Shadow detail )

If you decide on a mix, I think it should have a small amount of Silver Metallic mixed into a combination of Pearl, UPW Flat, and Water based Minwax Polyurethane Flat or Satin. The Pearl along with the MinWax creates a paint with more depth to it. The small amount of Silver helps with Contrast without overtly deepening Colors beyond normal, and helping to maintain gain....which also keeps whites "whiter".

That mix (RS_MaxxMud Lite ) applies directly over a White Primer, so it is not a "multi-layer" affair. Mixed properly, it can be rolled easily enough, but spraying is always the best option.

Otherwise, go ahead and try a 3/5ths UPW Flat coating, itself mixed only with 1/5th MinWax / 1/5th Water and see if you can get the image quality you want without engaging the Contrast features of the HD72 to aggressively. The mix remaining can easily accept the additional components and apply on top of any such effort at a later date if deemed necessary.

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post #372 of 452 Old 03-11-2006, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

It would seem your asking for a Mix that would not mute your Black levels in any way, but not work to assist them either.

You have to make note that the HD72 achieves it's best Contrast specs only when the Iris and Black level enhancement features are employed. These items usually wind up affecting other aspects of the image on the other end of the scale. ( Whites- Shadow detail )

If you decide on a mix, I think it should have a small amount of Silver Metallic mixed into a combination of Pearl, UPW Flat, and Water based Minwax Polyurethane Flat or Satin. The Pearl along with the MinWax creates a paint with more depth to it. The small amount of Silver helps with Contrast without overtly deepening Colors beyond normal, and helping to maintain gain....which also keeps whites "whiter".

That mix (RS_MaxxMud Lite ) applies directly over a White Primer, so it is not a "multi-layer" affair. Mixed properly, it can be rolled easily enough, but spraying is always the best option.

Otherwise, go ahead and try a 3/5ths UPW Flat coating, itself mixed only with 1/5th MinWax / 1/5th Water and see if you can get the image quality you want without engaging the Contrast features of the HD72 to aggressively. The mix remaining can easily accept the additional components and apply on top of any such effort at a later date if deemed necessary.

Thanks, that a big help. I think the HD72 is simillar to a Darkchip2 DMD, although the chip is new, and it does have dynamic bulb brightness, but should be pretty good with out it turned on. I like my whites bright white. Also, I'm going to have to go with a bigger screen size, about 115" and I want to make sure it has enough gain to be bright enough at that size. Anyway, if I use the MaxxMud Lite how exactly do I mix that? I tried to find instruction in the thread but didn't see it. How much SM and Pearl do I put in, and do I mix the other paints like you mentioned near the end of the reply? Also, would using Satin instead of Flat for the MinWax be the best for higher gain, and I'm not quite sure what some of your paint abbreviations meant? Do I use Behr Silver Metallic? Also what is the best paint for priming. Would a $79 Wagner Spray Paint kit from home depot be adequite for this? Sorry for all the questions. Anyway, if you could just give me the mixes for the different paints I would really appreciate it. Thanks.
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post #373 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 07:45 AM
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I did some more looking and I believe I found the paints you are talking about, please let me know if this is correct. I would like to go buy them.

3 8oz bottles Delta Ceramcoat Mettallic Silver
1 8oz bottle Delta Ceramcoat Pearl
1qt Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior
12oz Behr Deep Base Flat Exterior (Do I leave this out the MaxxMud Lite?)
16oz Minwax Polycrylic Satin Finish
16oz Distilled Water

If you could please just let me know the mix of these for my Optoma HD72, and if these are correct. Thanks for all the help.
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post #374 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 08:54 AM
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rsmith4321,

with the main focus of your main statement... of liking your whites to be bright white in mind...

you'll want to go with the updated rs-maxxmudd lite mix... which is...

RS-MaxxMudd LL (lower lumen)
24 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601 (3 - 8oz bottles)
16 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603 (2 - 8oz bottles)
18 oz. UPW

20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
10 oz. distilled/tap water

use an upw basecoat... followed by 3 coats of the RS-MaxxMudd topcoat.
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post #375 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

rsmith4321,

with the main focus of your main statement... of liking your whites to be bright white in mind...

you'll want to go with the updated rs-maxxmudd lite mix... which is...

RS-MaxxMudd LL (lower lumen)
24 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601 (3 - 8oz bottles)
16 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603 (2 - 8oz bottles)
18 oz. UPW

20 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
10 oz. distilled/tap water

use an upw basecoat... followed by 3 coats of the RS-MaxxMudd topcoat.

Thanks, that's exactly the info I was looking for. Sorry, one more question. You separate the first three from the bottom two. Is there a reason for this? I just want to make sure I've got it clear. The UPW basecoat is separate from the 5 ingredients needed for the MaxxMudd. In other words I put down a coat of Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior, then I put three coats of all 5 ingredients you mentioned (including the 18oz UPW) mixed together in the amounts you stated. And UPW is Behr Ultra Pure White Flat Exterior? Thanks, I want to get get the paint tomorrow so I really appreciate the help.
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post #376 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 12:36 PM
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rsmith4321,

i only seperate the bottom 2 because they are the viscosity components.

otherwise, the instructions you stated are exactly correct.
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post #377 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 01:33 PM
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Great, thanks, I'm going to try to get this done sometime this week. Should I sand with some really fine sand paper between coats? And should I sand the last coat? Also, would a cheap $79 paint sprayer from HD work or should I just try to roll the paint? I kept reading a sprayer would be much better, but I can't spend the money on a really nice one, so I was wondering if rolling would be better? Compared to my Da-lite Video Specta pull down screen with tons of wrinkles anything would probably look good. Oh, by the way, how will this mix compare in gain to a 1.5 gain screen like mine? Thanks for all the help.
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post #378 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsmith4321 View Post

Also, would a cheap $79 paint sprayer from HD work or should I just try to roll the paint?

Rolling will work if done properly (minimal nap roller, adequate drying time between layers, very light wet sanding between layers except for final coat)

If spraying try to use a HVLP (high volume low pressure) sprayer and not the $79 HD special for outdoor applications. An HVLP sprayer can be rented at Home Depot for cheap and gives you very good efficiancy (more paint on the screen rather than bouncing back at you) as well as better control with less overspray.

Have fun!

Mike
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post #379 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 02:00 PM
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rsmith4321,

with respect to sanding... sand the 2nd-to-last coat of UPW. also, sand the 2nd-to-last coat of RS-MaxxMudd... but not the final coat.

is that the cheap $79 electric sprayer or air compressor hvlp sprayer? in any case, both will work fine... the key is in learning to use them first. practice on something cheap like tileboard/masonite/hardboard.

if you are decent at rolling... this mix rolls on very nicely. i generally roll my first couple of coats and then spray the last. (it's much a heathier practice when you are doing multiple screens.

compared to your Da-lite Video Specta... this has a gain that's likely much closer to 1.1. i dare to say that the contrast will be improved and the colors will be more vivid than your Da-lite Video Spectra. i don't think you'll miss the dalite's 1.5 gain. in fact, do us all a favor and let us know your unbiased opinion vs your dalite when you are done.
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post #380 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

rsmith4321,

with respect to sanding... sand the 2nd-to-last coat of UPW. also, sand the 2nd-to-last coat of RS-MaxxMudd... but not the final coat.

is that the cheap $79 electric sprayer or air compressor hvlp sprayer? in any case, both will work fine... the key is in learning to use them first. practice on something cheap like tileboard/masonite/hardboard.

if you are decent at rolling... this mix rolls on very nicely. i generally roll my first couple of coats and then spray the last. (it's much a heathier practice when you are doing multiple screens.

compared to your Da-lite Video Specta... this has a gain that's likely much closer to 1.1. i dare to say that the contrast will be improved and the colors will be more vivid than your Da-lite Video Spectra. i don't think you'll miss the dalite's 1.5 gain. in fact, do us all a favor and let us know your unbiased opinion vs your dalite when you are done.

The spayer was the wagner spray paint kit from HD. I actually have a good bit of experience rolling paint, but have never used a spayer, so I may be better off rolling anyway. I would like to give a comparison, but the big reason I'm painting is I'm getting the Optoma HD72, and the throw is enough different from my 4805 that I'm having to go up to, I calculate, 113" screen size vs my 100" now. So I will try to compare the two, but at the different screen size it will be difficult. Thanks for all the help.

Oh, and I'm a little confused again, do I need to put more that one coat of the UPW, I thought that was just used as a primer? Also, I do mix the UPW into the Maxxmudd for the final three coats correct? Thanks.
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post #381 of 452 Old 03-13-2006, 03:41 PM
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If I roll this mix on my 51 X120 2.35 BOC screen, would it be better to paint the rubber side or smooth side? I am at the point of attaching the cloth to my aluminum frame.

Ann
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post #382 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 12:52 PM
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If you guys could reply kind of quickly I would appreciate it. I want to go ahead and mix the paint, but I just want to make sure it's right, because it was quite expensive. I know the Michaels paint is right because it had item numbers. At Home Depot I got 1qt of Minwax Polycrylic Clear Satin and 1qt of Behr Premium Plus Ultra Pure White no 4050 Matte exterior. I just thought it was strange to get the exterior for inside, and wanted to make sure it was right before I mixed it up. Thanks.
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post #383 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 01:15 PM
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rsmith4321,

use 2 coats of upw as your primer/basecoat.

mix the 5 components listed together. (which includes the 18oz of UPW)

3 coats of RS-MaxxMudd LL.

45 minutes of drying time between coats.
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post #384 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 01:18 PM
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Ann,

you'll want to paint the rubber side.
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post #385 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

rsmith4321,

use 2 coats of upw as your primer/basecoat.

mix the 5 components listed together. (which includes the 18oz of UPW)

3 coats of RS-MaxxMudd LL.

45 minutes of drying time between coats.

Thanks, so the two paints I mentioned at HD are the correct ones?
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post #386 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 01:25 PM
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rsmith4321,

the other 2 are correct as well. either the interior or the exterior upw will work just fine.
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post #387 of 452 Old 03-14-2006, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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He mentioned "UPW Matte".

It should be "UPW Flat".

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post #388 of 452 Old 03-16-2006, 09:35 PM
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It is the UPW Flat, at first glance it said Matte, but it also says flat. Anyway, I have my 3 coats of UPW down. I'm having touble getting a really smooth finish, no matter how much I sand I can't seem to get it completely smooth. I've been rinsing the sanding spooge in a bucket of water, then squeezing it out. It is pretty much dry when it's actually being used on the wall after squeezing, is this correct? I finally gave up and went ahead with my 3rd coat. Now I'm going to start with the mix. Did I understand correctly that the sanding should be on the coat just before the final one? What roller do you recommend, still the 3/8" instead of 1/4"? I've been using the 3/8. Also, is it essential to completely eliminate the texture? I guess I can just keep sanding, but it seems like when I put another coat the texture returns anyway, so it seems kind of pointless. Any suggestions are appreciated. Thanks for the help.

Oh, and what do you recommend for the black border, just a basic flat black paint?
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post #389 of 452 Old 03-16-2006, 09:56 PM
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rsmith4321,

for the future, when you are laying down a UPW basecoat... in order to get a much smoother finish... and reduce your sanding... always thin it in a 2:1:1 solution. that is... 2 parts white, 1 part minwax polycrylic, and 1 part water.

also, i'm not sure why you are using a 3/8 nap roller.... nothing but trouble is waiting for you there. while 1/4" might be ok... you should be using a 3/16" nap roller instead.

for the border, you should encase it in black velvet.
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post #390 of 452 Old 03-17-2006, 08:00 AM
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Now I know, too late for the base coat. Anyway, at the beginning of the thread it said to use a 3/8", but I'm getting a very rough texture. And the maxxmudd is pretty thin, it will probably help a lot to use a different roller. Anyway, I guess I've got a lot of sanding to do.
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