Opticoat over my MM screen - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 175 Old 05-17-2004, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Clarence... do you think a screen shot from two different cameras and different projectors with two different video sources is an accurate way to discern small detail differences in different screens
That sums up my concerns in this old thread:
screenshot galleries: too many variables?
when I tried to pick on MM for comparing SSs with CMRA.

You'll find that my screenshot analyses try to limit to a single variable...
different projectors
or
different cameras and 4MP vs $19
or
different screens

But sometimes it's fun to compare different everything (different projector, different camera, different screen, different photographer).

I don't think anyone here would or should base a purchase decision on screenshots. However, as the sample sizes increase, then we'll all have a better feel for trends and general performance. If 100 people posted their SM+MM or LFS or opticoat screenshots instead of 3, then I think we'd could feel more comfortable in discerning and correlating the variables.

-Clarence


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post #152 of 175 Old 05-17-2004, 09:23 PM
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Right Clarence.... you posted comparisons ... as you were interested in testing ! you had nothing to hide !! that is what objective people do !

Bruce
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post #153 of 175 Old 05-17-2004, 09:59 PM
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But I've learned a lot from non-comparative screenshots too. And I've learned a lot from constructive (and even destructive) criticism...

I'm too lazy to find the links now, but in the last 6 months, people have alerted me to bad AR (I measured a circle and was off by 10%!), too much red (I calibrated my G2 color balance and was amazed at the improvement), and RP hotspotting (man, I still love RP, but it steals 10' of your HT).

So when I post a screenshot, I welcome all jabs. MM's proud of his work and he should be. He's also interested in learning and helping... we all are. So even if his constructive inputs seem too candid at times, they can be very useful... either in improving screen material, paint application, or photo technique. He could choose to keep his criticism to himself, but he's willing to share. I enjoy listening. What fun would this forum be if every reply to every screenshot was "that looks good"?

-Clarence


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post #154 of 175 Old 05-21-2004, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by darinp2
The checkboard that you mention looks more like compression artifacts in the images to me. If you investigate the two images you will see that they are close to the same pixel count, but the Opticoat is 121428 bytes while the LFSF image is 285748 bytes. Over twice as big. Up in the right hand corner in the blue on the Opticoat image there is a pattern, but it doesn't look like an SDE pattern to me. It looks more like what I am used to when looking at compressed images.

--Darin
Darin

Thanks for the heads-up about the compression.

Turns out you were correct ....the dvd I had in was a copy from a dual layer to a single and was heavily compressed to get it to fit :(

I found my original dvd again so that should help with better shots

thks

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post #155 of 175 Old 05-22-2004, 01:24 AM
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Opticoat Review

Note- this is a review of the process, not the result. I cannot review the result as will be explained if you make it to the end of this.

Arrival- fifth business day after E-mail order- fantastic for international shipment.

Packing- excellent, can in pristine condition.

I expected some info with the product, but no document at all. Not sure if this was an oversight.

Opening the can- milky white, looks, handles and smells like acrylic latex paint.

Product fluid level was about ¾ inch from top- was temporarily irritated about being “shortedâ€, but as it turns out, you need the gap for stirring.

Stirring: I happened to notice in some post that its best to stir with a drill. This is not a handy tip- this is essential. The can had about an inch of dense silt on the bottom. I had a paint stiring “bit†with 2 sets of blades- three ot the end and 3 about 1 ½ inch up the shaft. I could feel the lower set of blades working hard in the silt. Being inpatient, I stirred for about 1 minute. This was not enough. Most of the stirring was done with the blade pinned on the bottom of the can. When I poured, there was a thick ridge of silt that was in the space between the blade sets. So, move up and down and all around, and do it for 3 minutes. Do not, as I did, allow the blades to grind on the bottem and or of the can- this strips some blue coating or oxidation from the inside surface of the can which I could see as swirls of bluish grey mixing into the white- source a mystery until I poured and saw the bluish lining of the can scraped off by the Teflon blades of the stirring rod. Wish I had taken the can to Lowes and talked them into running it through their shaker. Needless to say, straining this material is a must.

The plan: I felt I needed a gray screen because ambient light is a huge problem in my room. Adding the opticoat (which cost as much as all of the other screen materials combined) was to try to get some brightness back and hopefully hang on to deep black. Truth be told, the real reason I’m doing this is to keep myself busy waiting for the 4805 which will be my first PJ.

The recipe: I need a removable screen since there is no bare wall to work with. I made a frame with 1 inch square aluminum tubing, 45 by 80 inches (16/9). I tried rolling Ron-P’s Valspar plank gray on the rough side of blackout cloth, but it didn’t look even enough, so I took a new piece of blackout and sprayed 2 cans of rustolium bright silver as an undercoat then tried to barely cover than with a thin spray of misty evening. Since I don’t know what I am doing with a spray gun, this looked worse. I decided to put opticoat on both of these plus the other side on one for a total of three screens to test and choose from.

Spraying the opticoat: This was my second ever attempt at spraying. The first attempt was the misty evening latex the day before, which ended up quite pebbled because I had the valve way too rich. I don’t have the right kind of gun (HVLP), only a cheap HP gun that came bundled with a compressor and some other air tools. D-Hod seemed very apprehensive about trying to use this type of sprayer, and gave me a somewhat reluctant yellow light to proceed. He advised using low pressure, so I worked at 25 PSI with the valve so lean that a tiny, very fine dry mist came out. I made about 15 passes on all 3 screens before the gun started spitting bigtime with about 20% of the quart left. Fortunately, only the bare BO got trashed. Upon disassembly, most of the air channels were clogged with silicate.

While spraying, the air was thick with glistening silicate particles. Use good eye and respiratory protection. My eyes were burning, and my teeth had a gritty feel for the rest of the day.

The result: All 3 screen surfaces uniformly covered with thousands of tiny glistening prisms (except one bad swath on the raw BO cloth). Surface the consistency of 150 grit sand paper. No change in surface color- perfectly transparent as claimed.

How dose it perform ? Well, like I said, I’m waiting for the 4805. But I did manage to borrow an Epson S1 to check it out. Looks great to me, but I have no PJ experience and thus no basis to compare. I’ve only looked at the ME on silver version. The one thing I can say is to confirm that viewing angle is excellent- even 60-70 degrees is about as bright as straight on.

Is it worth $75 shipped ? Considering D-HOD’s willingness to provide email support (which I needed), probably. Maybe I’ve got a cheap firehawk clone.
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post #156 of 175 Old 05-22-2004, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
i am glad that DustinF agrees with me !! as he points out the best shots here on avs have come from someone who has a Z1, and quote "The projector will make a slight difference, but not night and day" .
#1 I don't agree with you.
#2 I never said the best shots on AVS come from a Z1
#3 I was referring to the screenshots done in THIS post. Not all others.

But again like all other posts I read from you, you take things out of context and scew them towards your liking. Even my quick blurp you couldn't interpret correctly.
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post #157 of 175 Old 05-22-2004, 05:29 PM
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I just quoted you Dustin!! you said it!! "The projector will make a slight difference, but not night and day" regarding screen shots i will ask again if the projector makes little difference what are the other variables ? it sounds like you have done some skewing . first off i mentioned that some of the best shots on avs came from cmra , and his Z1 i said that not you right ! i only quoted your one comment .

" The projector will make a slight difference, but not night and day. Look at all the screenshots that CMRA did with a Z1." i did not see cmra's posted screen shots on this post so it seems like you were referring to other posts as well !! who cares !! screen shots are not a very good way to judge two separate screens with all the different variables . Mississippi was stating that you could compare screens subtle differences by screen shots that is what i was commenting on .I never said you needed a great camera to take great screen shots ! but i was commenting on different equipment used as being more of a factor than just the screens, do you agree? it seems like you took me out of context ! do you understand my point now! or do you still think the projector is really irrelevent in discerning subtle details in the pictures SHOWN , that is all i was referring to .

ps
please interpret your quick blurb for me then ,maybe i missed your point .

Bruce
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post #158 of 175 Old 05-22-2004, 07:06 PM
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I wrote:
Quote:
D_Hod's pic looks like crap but I don't blame the screen. It's obviously artifacts in the photo or a really bad PJ or DVD player. Look at the white lines along the boy's face and his shoulder. Obviously the screen didn't/couldn't/wouldn't cause that.
D_Hod wrote:
Quote:
the dvd I had in was a copy from a dual layer to a single and was heavily compressed to get it to fit
I stand corrected, that was a source of bad images I didn't think of. ;)

More proof that criticising a screen based on someone else's screenshots is nonsense. The "problems" in D_Hod's pics had nothing to do with the screen and everything to do with the source disk. Maybe his screen is good and maybe it isn't. You sure can't tell from those pics.

PS - an overcompressed disk still doesn't explain half the byte count in the screen shots. It looks like we have a double dose of overcompression artifacts - once on the DVD copy and once in the JPEG image.

Dennis H
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post #159 of 175 Old 05-23-2004, 08:39 AM
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catapult...

Quote:
"The "problems" in D_Hod's pics had nothing to do with the screen and everything to do with the source disk. Maybe his screen is good and maybe it isn't. You sure can't tell from those pics."
Now with having read the cameras manual...:) . and checking to be sure I insert the "original" dvd's ...:rolleyes: ..mabey these pics look better..... here

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post #160 of 175 Old 05-23-2004, 12:18 PM
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The picture of the pointing boy still has the problem I noted above. There are a white lines separating the left side of his face and the top of his right shoulder from the rock background behind. Some sort of edge enhancement gone wild?

http://members.shaw.ca/imho/5th003.jpg

Dennis H
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post #161 of 175 Old 05-26-2004, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by timesnewroman
Opticoat Review

Spraying the opticoat: This was my second ever attempt at spraying. The first attempt was the misty evening latex the day before, which ended up quite pebbled because I had the valve way too rich. I don’t have the right kind of gun (HVLP), only a cheap HP gun that came bundled with a compressor and some other air tools. D-Hod seemed very apprehensive about trying to use this type of sprayer, and gave me a somewhat reluctant yellow light to proceed. He advised using low pressure, so I worked at 25 PSI with the valve so lean that a tiny, very fine dry mist came out. I made about 15 passes on all 3 screens before the gun started spitting bigtime with about 20% of the quart left. Fortunately, only the bare BO got trashed. Upon disassembly, most of the air channels were clogged with silicate.

While spraying, the air was thick with glistening silicate particles. Use good eye and respiratory protection. My eyes were burning, and my teeth had a gritty feel for the rest of the day.

The result: All 3 screen surfaces uniformly covered with thousands of tiny glistening prisms (except one bad swath on the raw BO cloth). Surface the consistency of 150 grit sand paper. No change in surface color- perfectly transparent as claimed.

How dose it perform ? Well, like I said, I’m waiting for the 4805. But I did manage to borrow an Epson S1 to check it out. Looks great to me, but I have no PJ experience and thus no basis to compare. I’ve only looked at the ME on silver version. The one thing I can say is to confirm that viewing angle is excellent- even 60-70 degrees is about as bright as straight on.

Is it worth $75 shipped ? Considering D-HOD’s willingness to provide email support (which I needed), probably. Maybe I’ve got a cheap firehawk clone.
timesnewroman...

Thanks ..this helps me decide to try it and I have spayed paint before so I should do ok with this.
Iam planning on doing it over a gloss white enamel as is suggested and will try to get back here to report on the end results when done.

PS.. I think the screen shots look great....
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post #162 of 175 Old 06-09-2004, 07:47 PM
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Any review from early pioneers in Opti coat?
I am highly interested in Opticoat.

Truth shall set you free
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post #163 of 175 Old 06-10-2004, 05:57 AM
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Thumbs up from me. It brightened up my grey screen with no loss of viewing cone.
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post #164 of 175 Old 06-10-2004, 11:39 AM
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timesnewroman: Did it add a glittering effect to the picture ?

I have tried pearlescent paint and it made a bright picture but it was sort of shimmering :(

By glittering I mean like a thousand small stars.
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post #165 of 175 Old 06-10-2004, 07:08 PM
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No glittering effect- I think the silicate particles are too small to make visible points of brightness.
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post #166 of 175 Old 06-11-2004, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by timesnewroman
Thumbs up from me. It brightened up my grey screen with no loss of viewing cone.

I just got there... firehawk clone screen.... diy setup today and rolled the basecoat this afternoon ..I used a 5'x10' sintra board [they suggest it ]masked/cut to 52"x92" hdtv size...light and durable with a nice smooth surface.....and all I can say at this point is its a closer match to the 3' firehawk screen sample I got from Stewart than I expected ....and thats just the basecoat without the opticoat on it.
That gets sprayed in 24hrs so the basecoat has time to dry out .....its supposed to turn lighter in shade by then.
As it is now ....its abit darker than the Firehawk sample but just a bit......I test sprayed some opticoat on a scrap 2'x2' piece and it was not allot diffrent than spraying paint so that gives me hope ...maybe abit easier cause I didnt have to worry about the wet line overlaps as it goes on in such a fine mist and kinda dry like..
The opticoats supposed to brighten it up.... and still keep the good blacks ...and by what timesnewroman reports... his grey screen got brighter ...so is sure lookin like Im gonna finally have my Grey HighPower screen !!!:D
I like the idea of doing my own screen and ending up with something equal or better than the MFG screens... and for so much less money and a little time spent seems worth the effort.....D.I.Y er forever
:)
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post #167 of 175 Old 06-15-2004, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttiCoop
I just got there... firehawk clone screen.... diy setup today and rolled the basecoat this afternoon ..:)
Two questions:

1. Before you put on the Opticoat you said you made a firehawk clone screen. What did that entail?

2. Have you coated it with the Opticoat and what were the results?

Thanks,

Omzig

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post #168 of 175 Old 06-17-2004, 10:54 AM
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Does anybody have any more experiences to share with opticoat? The recommendation seens to be silver metallic paint with opticoat over top. Anybody using this?

Matt
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post #169 of 175 Old 06-28-2004, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Omzig
Two questions:

1. Before you put on the Opticoat you said you made a firehawk clone screen. What did that entail?

2. Have you coated it with the Opticoat and what were the results?

Thanks,

Omzig


Hi Gizmo

The DIY Firehawk clone ? I ordered it from Opticoat... its on their webpage
http://members.shaw.ca/opticoat/

I havent applied the Opticoat and the screen looks so good as is.
they suggest using the Opticoat coating with it only as an option in that package.
It seems to me it is as good as i could want as is ....and like i said before its so close to the firehawk sample in picture quality I may not coat it right away. But i will in the near future...just abit busy with summer and all.

I find its a great product even without the Opticoat on....and it rolled on easily ... specially if one is looking for a high contrast grey screen and at the cost its a steal when compared to MFG screen prices.
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post #170 of 175 Old 07-03-2004, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by AttiCoop
I just got there... firehawk clone screen.... diy setup today and rolled the basecoat this afternoon ..I used a 5'x10' sintra board [they suggest it ]
:)
Quick question...where did you get the 5'x10' board? HD?
Bud
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post #171 of 175 Old 07-26-2004, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BudBray
Quick question...where did you get the 5'x10' board? HD?
Bud

The Sintra board is available at most sign supply outlets I think

Well i finally got around to putting the opticoat on the firehawk clone ...
even though it produced a great picture with just the clones basecoat... I have to say it is even better once the opticoat is on ...it gives it more vibrant colors ...and contrast wise better whites without loosing the blacks so I can only ask myself ...why did I wait so long to finish . Now that I have seen what the finished screen is like Iam acctually thinking of trying their silverstar clone... I looked on the webpage the other day and its now available from their site....here ... and do a second screen to see how it looks... as silver has a grey base it may be even better suited to my wants
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post #172 of 175 Old 08-10-2004, 11:11 AM
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Update

I was ordering my SilverStar clone ....and upon ordering recieved an email from Opticoat saying..... they will have a ...rollable version... of Opticoat out within the next few days....so I will be waiting for that and order it when it becomes available ...Untill then Iam still enjoying the Firehawk clone but still feel the silvery Gray of the silverstar clone may be a better combo for me with the better blacks I will try to get back here and post the results soon as I can
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post #173 of 175 Old 08-10-2004, 12:44 PM
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Can you post some Screen shots in the gallery for us all to see? That would be greatly appreciated. Written words of acclaim just don't seem good enough.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #174 of 175 Old 08-30-2004, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MississippiMan
Can you post some Screen shots in the gallery for us all to see? That would be greatly appreciated. Written words of acclaim just don't seem good enough.
Well MM I would probably do so... if I had a suitable camera and the skills...but having neither ....and the fact that opticoat already has their own page with screenshots.... and the shots there are representative of what my opticoated screen looks like I dont see the need for me to go to the trouble and expense.....

BTW
Hope you have fun in Vancouver
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post #175 of 175 Old 09-05-2004, 12:22 PM
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Do any of you have suggestions of which opticoat clone or other would be nice for for my Optoma H77 (pretty decent blacks for digital PJ) 90" diag screen, short throw, and light controlled except for some bar lights when people are drinking. Could be totally dark but practically with young kids there is almost always a little light around when they are playing. Thanks.

Jay
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