Behr "Silverscreen" Paint - Page 13 - AVS Forum
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Old 08-30-2004, 07:30 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RyanJNielson
Yes, rolling can be really tricky!

The best method I found was akin to the "less is more" theory- very thin coats painted multiple times. You will probably want to coat again, only this time, try the "dry rolling" method. It involves loading the roller, then unloading on a seperate surface, taking care to press harder on the edges of the roller eliminating the paint build-up. Using this technique, I was able to make all roll-marks disappear.

Thank you Ryan. Such 'vebatium' disbursement of already posted knowledge is refreshing to see, if only that is shows that others have indeed read AND retained such knowledge.

Saves me much "Hunt & Peckin'" too!

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Old 08-30-2004, 08:13 PM
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Not to take away too much from the Light Fusion discussions, but I always wanted to see what MissMan thought about the SS/WOP mix. I know he was enthusiastic about it's use as a 2 coat quickie solution, but I don't remember if he ever got a shot to test it out and if he posted an opinion on it compared to the other quick/fast 2 coat solutions.
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Old 08-30-2004, 08:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ender611
dry rolling sounds great for the first and second coat but for the final coat you may have to poor it on a bit thicker

http://www.painterforum.com/wall.html

or a little different

http://www.paintwizard.com.au/rolling/walltech.htm

Did you dry roll your final coat as well Ryan?

OK - now I am really confused. The first link says "Be sure to keep paint in the roller. Do not dryroll the wall." The second one recommends finishing off with dry-rolling....

I did in fact use a small amount of paint for the first coat and used the dry rolling technique. I would think dry-rolling would be the best way to ensure even coverage, but I am worried about roller marks...

I will put on coat #2 tonight and report back tomorrow on the roller marks compared to coat #1.
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Old 08-30-2004, 09:04 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Fatboy Roberts
Not to take away too much from the Light Fusion discussions, but I always wanted to see what MissMan thought about the SS/WOP mix. I know he was enthusiastic about it's use as a 2 coat quickie solution, but I don't remember if he ever got a shot to test it out and if he posted an opinion on it compared to the other quick/fast 2 coat solutions.

Fatboy,

My enthusiasm was based on the perceived results posted by the few who already had tried the idea. I myself have never gotten around to it. As time went on, and as in so many things, the comments Pro & Con became evenly divided. Low Lumens?(-1000) Dim but Sawright. Higher Lumens? (1000 to 1500) probably the very best application. Mondo lumens?(1800 to 2500) No specific advantage, some degree of blooming or hotspotting in smallish areas.

The skinny is/was that the dilution of the SS with the WOP effectively canceled out some of the unique properties SS provided due specifically to it's own mixed attributes, and often added sparklies and glare, along with "too intense" reds.

SS alone is, like ME, a definitive "one can" solution. Also like ME, it generates either awe or disgust, depending on one's experience and tastes. For a cheapskate newbee, ME and a Z1 really fit the bill. Ditto with SS and any moderately bright PJ, LCD or DLP. The difference between a Z1 & Z2 can be plainly seen on both screens, so obviously, the PJ has loads to do with any perceived results.

IMO, a good MississippiMud bright white screen painted on any board will throughly trounce both ME & SS in every dept. But a 3 qt. mix will cost you about $40.00. SS or ME? $11.00 if you can get by with 1 qt.

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Old 08-30-2004, 09:19 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by strugs
OK - now I am really confused. The first link says "Be sure to keep paint in the roller. Do not dryroll the wall." The second one recommends finishing off with dry-rolling....
.

Sorry strugs...the dry roll method that Ryan referred to was dry dry dry roll compared to what that second site was referring to ( that is rolling the roller onto a spare piece of drywall or something after the paint tray and then pressing it into the screen ). I was just thinking about your final coat and thought a dry roll might not get that smooth finish since gravity isn't given as much of a chance and I may well be mistaken on that. MississippiMan described his dry roll method in great detail in previous threads.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...23#post3288823

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ll#post4075448
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Old 08-30-2004, 09:42 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MississippiMan


IMO, a good MississippiMud bright white screen painted on any board will throughly trounce both ME & SS in every dept. But a 3 qt. mix will cost you about $40.00. SS or ME? $11.00 if you can get by with 1 qt.

Is that quart of deep base still beneficial in the one coat solution? Would you still go with one quart of each 1/3 upw, 1/3 deep base, 1/3 wop for a one coat solution over both a 'white' primer and a grey primer.

.......

On another note...you once mentioned that instead of deep base maybe pastel base could be used for a little easier rollability. I know I'm all over the place here but from this following site I bet you could drop the whole drop of red in ( no stick droppage ). Seems you would need more then twice of any color plus cut back on the UPW maybe a fifth ( or a twentyfifth..hard one to calculate ) since less titanium white is needed ( there being more in the pastel base ) to get the same color. I know why mess with it but for some who were looking for light greys those half particles could move up to full particles in this pastel stuff if I'm reading it right. Maybe CLOUDING up the whole issue.

http://www.davispaint.com/Articles/G...aseconvtbl.pdf
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Old 08-30-2004, 11:35 PM
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Guess Tom_Bombadil was in that space

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...21#post4195021

Wonder how many 1/48th particles of titanium white one would have to add to pastel base to give it the same white coverage as 1/2 upw and 1/2 clear deep base. There's alot less room ( 1 oz ) to add paint to pastel then deep base. Guessing there may be 6 48th particles of Titanium white in the pastel and maybe 1 or 2 in the deep base. Would a good guess be about 30 for the upw.

From the Davispaint site...if one had silverscreen in a deep base and mixed it half and half with upw the colour wouldn't be lightened by one half but may be more like one quarter as dark since, like the pastel, alot more colour has to be added to get the same colour as in the deep base.

Also thinkin if MM could be got for one quart of paint and a pint* of wop then there's no "well you might as well paint the inside of the cupboard with all that extra paint" from the significant other.

*WOP: US - quarts only ......Canada - 1/2 litres only...... Whats that about
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Old 08-31-2004, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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For the sake of clarity, here is the meat of my original post and intentions in regards to this paint approach. It seems that it's morphed into something larger, with grandious claims being accredited to it...etc.

"On a lark, I was leafing through the Behr swatches at my local Home Depot, and found the "Silverscreen" paint. Light grey, seemd similar to the "Misty Evening". So, I rolled two coats on a piece of white Gatorboard, and voila, a cheap two coat solution.

In my opinion, this gives definite contrast enhancement and deeper blacks than plain blackout cloth or the white gatorboard surface. If you are looking for a quick down-and-dirty screen for your LCD projector, this took approx 3 hours total, most of that time was waiting for the coats to dry.
"


Sheeesh folks.

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Old 08-31-2004, 11:03 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bcortez
For the sake of clarity, here is the meat of my original post and intentions in regards to this paint approach. It seems that it's morphed into something larger, with grandious claims being accredited to it...etc.

"On a lark, I was leafing through the Behr swatches at my local Home Depot, and found the "Silverscreen" paint. Light gray, seemed similar to the "Misty Evening". So, I rolled two coats on a piece of white Gatorboard, and voila, a cheap two coat solution.

In my opinion, this gives definite contrast enhancement and deeper blacks than plain blackout cloth or the white gatorboard surface. If you are looking for a quick down-and-dirty screen for your LCD projector, this took approx 3 hours total, most of that time was waiting for the coats to dry.
"


Sheeesh folks.

I (*Burp*) hear you.

Ah but.................., start a thread about a "simple" solution such as SS, or a "effort intensive" one like LF, and some of those who want to 'customize' or 'experiment' with your efforts will always pop up.

This is a good thing. Many minds can offer far more input, the only drawback being the need for separating the nonsense or redundancy from the truly beneficial contributions.

One must remember that I was mightily proud of the SM/MM application, and it's results still top out over any "paint only" solution, but it was "another" who inserted first Clear Plexi then Glass Mirrors into the LF equation. I followed with Plastic Mirrors. One never knows what might turn up, unfettered and unabridged, within the fertile minds of those who lurk around the perimeters of our own endeavors.



Sheesh indeed.

Tom and all the others would aspire to mute the negative aspects of SS while highlighting the positive ones. That was essentially all I was trying to do with Goo by using a SM base covered first with Goo, then later with MMud on a wall or board.

Sometimes a thread will wander, it's original intent get lost, or even morph into something altogether different. The true worth of a thread is how many bother subscribe to it, repeatedly come back to it, and manage to gleen something from it.

BCortez, your contribution is no less impressive in it's own right as Light Fusion, ME, or any other DIY application. No one can take that away, they can only try to justify their own negativism by calling it a "less than" perfect solution.

Let 'em rant.

Your statements about SS, to my understanding of the English language, never stated it was perfect..., just a quick, easy solution that did in fact offer more than a plain white surface.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:19 AM
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MM Wrote:

"No one can take that away, they can only try to justify their own negativism by calling it a "less than" perfect solution."





Unless you challenge the assertion that its better than a plain white wall.

I think all these efforts are worthwhile and believe it or not they are appreciated, but its quite rediculous that people are accused of being "negative" if they dare to challenge the screen quality of Home Depot paint.
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Old 08-31-2004, 11:43 AM
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............. some people cannot see that a Home Depot solution already speaks for itself. Cheap. Available. Simple.

.........and some cannot seem to read the true meaning of a sentence when someone else says", It does "contrast' better than a white wall." and accept that statement for what it portends to say. SS was never intended as a solution for $3500.00 + PJs with 2000:1 CR. That some with PJs at that price point decided to try it because it WAS cheap only served to allow them an affordable option to experiment with. If a white wall can do better, it's not the walls ability that makes it possible, it's the PJ's.

Instead, they must aggressively try to show how the paint should be "86'd" because it's not a "perfect" solution. It's all about trying to make one's own opinions be heard.

...........and what's with the "accusation" business?

My statement was as generically applied as it could be, so keep the dogs at bay until they are warranted, will ya?

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Old 08-31-2004, 11:50 AM
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Contrast yes
Colorshift yes - dramatically so.

ME does the same thing with a different shift, less objectionable. I'd use that with WOP before SS.
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Old 08-31-2004, 04:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Contrast yes
Colorshift yes - dramatically so.

ME does the same thing with a different shift, less objectionable. I'd use that with WOP before SS.

Todd,

That is entirely your opinion and perogative. Which, is as valid as anyone's really (including my own). However, if you want to try that approach, and think it's better, then by all means, please, go ahead. I know I'd like to see it too. All I'm trying to do is keep this thread on track....it's a Behr SS thread with variations on that theme. I'm asking kindly to all to just keep that in mind. If you have a better/simpler/cheaper/acceptable solution, then please start a thread on it....we are all ears....errr, eyes.


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Old 08-31-2004, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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For the record, I never "asserted" anything. I stated my opinion based upon my real world observations (supported by experimentation) under the conditions in my own setup. This was clearly outlined for all to see from the beginning.

Definition of "assertion":

as·ser·tion Audio pronunciation of "assertion" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-sûrshn)
n.

1. The act of asserting.
2. Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof.

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Old 09-01-2004, 12:08 AM
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well, for what it's worth B, when I took the plunge into projection, I got the x1, and I got my SS, and I loved the results when compared to my plain white wall. And the WOP only added to it, so I really do appreciate your discovery. if it wasn't for this thread, me and my friends who come over for movie night every wednesday probably wouldn't be enjoying the picture we look at now. yeah, Light Fusion is probably down the line somewhere, but for my budget and my picture preferences, it was this thread that helped me ultimately pull the trigger.

So thanks for that. And thanks, MM, for the response and the time you put into every post. I type 95 words a minute, and I couldn't IMAGINE having to hunt and peck every letter of the post size you do every time out. THAT'S dedication
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Old 09-01-2004, 08:59 AM
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This isnt an issue of appreciation. Its analysis and conclusions. I'm getting a bit aggrevated here. I've tried SSWOP and MEWOP and the results are pretty simple. Painfully obvious really.

Heres a pic!

SSWOP on the Left, ME(light)WOP on the right, the background is a white wall. You can barely see the ME(light)WOP because there is no descernable color shift. It looks like the white wall.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...077&fullpage=1

Again, everyone stop getting so freaking defensive. If it wasnt for bcortez I never would have tried varying the mixtures so I appreciate the research. If noone questioned the mixtures and pursued improvements we'd never improve on anything around here. If noone ever shared anything then you'd never know of better things. Again, analysis and conclusions!
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Old 09-01-2004, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Todd,

I do appreciate your efforts, don't get me wrong. I just take umbridge at my observations, based upon experimentation, being called assertions (which by nature are not based on any attempt at proof). I've clearly made the attempt, and shared that knowledge freely here (which is what we all hope to gain).

Thanks for the comparison pic. It is telling. It looks as if the white wall background is really blowing out the whites (definitely a zone 10 or more).....while both the SSWOP and ME (light) have tamed it a bit more (probably down to a zone 8.5). Can't really get a good contrast opinion based upon the placement and content of the image.

However, the facial tone seems much lighter and tending toward a yellow shift on the white wall, whereas the painted surfaces again are softening and warming those tones more (probably due to the raw umber??).

As for the comparison of facial tone between the SSWOP and ME (light), it seems to me the SSWOP has a very slight advantage on the bridge of the nose. It appears to me to bing it down by about a 1/2 a zone, which adds more detail since it is lowering the brightness ever so slightly.

Thanks again Todd, keep up the great work.

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Old 09-01-2004, 09:32 AM
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One bad thing about digital camera's are that they can be misleading.

I can assure you that grey paint won't blow out whites. Its an artifact of the camera. If you are seeing lost detail its because the camera is blowing out the whites.

The SSWOP has a red shift. To see the results in person (not the camera) it looks as if Gandalf has kicked back a few too many. Is it hugely objectionable? Not really. However, the ME(Light)WOP is almost as neutral as the white wall which is really the point.

Again regarding the camera - this is a BenQ 8700 which isnt known as a light cannon. The camera is a bit misleading.
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Old 09-01-2004, 10:32 AM
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Let's see- someone asked me a question- let me scroll up- ah, yes!

I did dry roll my last coat(s). Worked for me.

Black Pearl is the greatest DIY paint solution ever! All others are #2 or lower!!

Just kidding.
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:07 PM
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If black pearl is better that would be fantastic! Screen shots please!
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Old 09-01-2004, 12:15 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RyanJNielson
Let's see- someone asked me a question- let me scroll up- ah, yes!

I did dry roll my last coat(s). Worked for me.

Black Pearl is the greatest DIY paint solution ever! All others are #2 or lower!!

Just kidding.

....................and I just rerouted my itenerary to Vancouver to include a stop-over in Minneapolis. I's a gunnin' fer ya.

(IJKAT)

Ryan's version of Black Pearl is a "weaker on WOP" version of the same idea CMRA came up with (...the name too!) and that I tried as well. Too much WOP condemened it to obscurity, and it was not revisited again for re-correction due to time & logistical restraints.

Kudos to Ryan for taking care of the necessary R&D. he who get's there first'ist, gets the real credit.

Be sure to post those shots in the Gallery, or Hyper link to 'em.

...............and now; back to Silver Screen?

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Old 09-03-2004, 12:15 AM
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After reading all this post. I am totally confused.
So what is the Dulux or Dupont or or the RGB paint code for

Misty Evening and Mississippi Mud.

I went to my local paint supplier (In Australia) and they have never heard of these paint names.

I did not realise there were so many different shades of white and greys.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 09-03-2004, 06:51 AM
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<<< Misty Evening >>>
Stock Glidden color. Available at Home Depot in the states.

<<< Mississippi Mud >>>
Custom mixture using all Behr products - also available at Home Depot in the states. Its composed of Ultra Pure White Ceiling Paint, White Opal Pearlescent and Deep Base. I might be missing an ingredient. I can't recall the exact mixture so maybe someone else can chime in and help him out?
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Old 09-03-2004, 08:55 AM
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Thanks ToddMc2002.

If anyone knows the exact mixture, this would be fantastic
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Old 09-03-2004, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by jackwhite
Thanks ToddMc2002.

If anyone knows the exact mixture, this would be fantastic

Please PM him with that info. The formulaes for the MM and Misty Evening are not realted in any way to Behr SS (which this thread is all about). I'm trying to simplify this thread and get it back on track. As some people have said, reading it is "confusing", and I believe that is coming from the talk of LF, MM, Misty Evening, etc... I do appreciate the interest and experimentation using Behr SS as tha base, and welocme the current and any future efforts.

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Old 09-07-2004, 01:23 AM
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I totally dig this thread. PM's sent to some I have asked questions about

Thanks

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Old 09-07-2004, 08:32 AM
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My Own Opinion,

I have been using a Gator Board screen for the past six months or so and figured it was time to try something a little differant.

I have an X-1 with a 90" dia. 16:9 screen.

I applied two coats of primer sanded between and three coats of SS sanded between. The screen is framed using a 2" wide wood boarder painted very flat black, the screen wall and ceiling are flat black as well.

IMO the picture was not as crisp or as bright as the Gator Board I was using. It seems the the pixilation of the X-1 is brought out more with the SS as well.

So from here I tried two more coats using the SS/WOP mixture. Once again I don't think it is as good of a projection surface as the Gator Board for the same reasons mentioned above.

The projection surface of the SS and the SS/WOP are OK nothing to drule over by no means. I would only recommend this product to the DIYer if you are so limited to funds that you can't spend the $75.00 and pick up a sheet of Gator Board or such.

I will be going back to the Gator Board in due time.

Those are my thoughts, not yours!

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Old 09-07-2004, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by HAZED
My Own Opinion,

I have been using a Gator Board screen for the past six months or so and figured it was time to try something a little differant.

Are you using GatorBoard or GatorFoam? I was using GatorFoam (foam core, art supply stuff) and it was hotspotting something fierce. I don't know if GatorBoard is different, or has a different surface. Sounds to me like they may have different surface, the GatorFoam I had had a very glossy smooth flat surface.

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I have an X-1 with a 90" dia. 16:9 screen.

I have my Panny PT-L500U PJ ceiling mounted, which may bring on the hotspotting. Having it table mounted may not introduce this effect. Is your's table or celing mounted?

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I applied two coats of primer sanded between and three coats of SS sanded between. The screen is framed using a 2" wide wood boarder painted very flat black, the screen wall and ceiling are flat black as well.

I didn't prime, or sand between each coat myself. I simply rolled two thin coats atop the raw surface (laying flat).

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IMO the picture was not as crisp or as bright as the Gator Board I was using. It seems the the pixilation of the X-1 is brought out more with the SS as well.

That's too bad. Perhaps it's not a good screen/PJ match with an X1?

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So from here I tried two more coats using the SS/WOP mixture. Once again I don't think it is as good of a projection surface as the Gator Board for the same reasons mentioned above.

I haven't tried the SS/WOP mixture myself. So I can't comment on it directly.

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The projection surface of the SS and the SS/WOP are OK nothing to drule over by no means. I would only recommend this product to the DIYer if you are so limited to funds that you can't spend the $75.00 and pick up a sheet of Gator Board or such.

I will be going back to the Gator Board in due time.

Those are my thoughts, not yours!

Hazed

Thanks for your tests and observations HAZED. Anyone else here try it with an X1 PJ?

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Old 09-07-2004, 12:21 PM
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bcortez

I am using what is called here in Canada - Gator Board. It is a foam cored product with a flat white plastic covering. I have seen the Gator foam board if thats what it is called at a art supply store however it was not the same product that I am using. I am using the Gator foam board in black for blacking out some areas in my room ie: basement window, back of component rack etc....it works great!

My X-1 is cieling mounted and I have never seen any hot spotting or rainbows..nor has anyone who has seen it either.....

From a prep point I went all out:

2 coats drywall mud
sanded
primed
sanded
painted
sanded

I think you get the point...

The finished product looks great - no blemishes.

As I said its not BAD I didn't put that Gator Board back up but I will in due time!

If it's too loud than your getting too old!
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Old 09-09-2004, 02:16 PM
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After spending over an hour reading this thread my head is spinning. I'll be picking up my BenQ 6100 next Thursday and I will be painting this weekend. Seeing as the 6100 is pretty bright, and I do have a little ambient light (not a lot, but not complete darkness) would you pros recommend Behr Ultra White or Silver Screen?

Thanks for the help!
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