Behr "Silverscreen" Paint - Page 34 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #991 of 1439 Old 07-26-2006, 01:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Uhhhh, right.

Sorry, Bud, but you caught me on a day when my "post for the sake of being annoying" threshold is intollerably low.

What in the world are you actually adding to the conversation by opening up a completely acadedmic argument about "neutrality" of color and digging MM?

You seem to imply that there could be a single pigment that could be used to yield a perfect neutral grey and that simply because the formula for SS uses raw umber and cadmium that it is not "neutral?" In fact, and this should be obvious, the umber and red go a long way towards neutralizing the lamp black.

"Neutral" is a theoretical goal, just as "white" and "black" are. No one on this board will ever achieve a perfectly neutral screen ... not making it themselves or buying it from Stewart.

Silverscreen is not a "type" of paint. It's so confusing to imply that it is. It is just a cute name that some marketing fop at Behr came up with because it's not very sexy naming a color #987234xx3G. ;-)

You can take the same mix of pigments, add it to any sufficiently white base from any manufacturer of quality paint, and end up with (in practice) the same resultant hue. And a hue is really what we're talking about here.

Please don't confuse the issue with junior high color theory, its not helpful to anyone trying to understand what "SilverScreen" is. I went into Home Depot expecting to find a type of paint called SilverScreen (just as WOP is a specific type of paint) only to figure out that it was just a normal latex flat. I'm trying to save other DIY'ers the confusion, not add to it.
joe12south is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #992 of 1439 Old 07-26-2006, 02:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Joe
Sorry I caught you on an off day and my post was annoying. I didn't really intend it to be such.

First off MM and I often throw a few good hearted barbs at each other and if I offended anyone it wasn't my intention.

The on topic part of my post and the part I felt I wanted to post to yours about was the notion that SS is a neutral gray or even close to a neutral gray. I do understand that perfection is not attainable but why not try and get as close as can be easily had. The idea that lamp black causes color push has been around from the middle ages. And modern pigmentation is much more science than it once was. The amount of raw umber in SS is most likely 10 fold what may be required to combat a blue push from lamp black. Its really in this paint to give it a warmer tone to paint a bedroom or den or something and has no base in color theory.

I could also take offence that you feel I'm dealing with these issues on a Jr high level without having any clue as to my background. But I don't.

Once again sorry my post was off topic in part.


Bud

bud16415 is offline  
post #993 of 1439 Old 07-26-2006, 02:27 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bud,
Apolgies accepted, and mine offered right back at you.

A neutral hue HAS to lean (or push) somewhere - red, blue, green or somewhere inbetween. Even cultural bias affects what we are willing to accept as "neutral." (The first time a westerner looks at a Trinitron tube, they undoubtably think it is too "blue.")

For the record, and this IS important for everyone to understand, the 6500º kelvin white point is FAR warmer than (theoretical) absolute "neutral" and this is the color temperature we're all shooting for (or at least should be.)

What I've found now that my new screen has cured for a few weeks, is that I can push my PJ further and still land near 6500º k. because the Silverscreen hue is slightly warmer than that of my previous screen, a Da-Lite HCCV.

On an absolute scale SilverScreen is a very neutral mix. On a relative scale, it does skew warm, true. Whether this is better or worse than a mix that skews in a different direction can be the subject of endless debate.
joe12south is offline  
post #994 of 1439 Old 07-26-2006, 02:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Coincidentally,
I had done a good bit of research before going the route I did. Here's an image for your viewing pleasure:



Right side is two coats of Silverscreen on top of two coats of Kilz 2 (as measured by an old Colortron.) Left side is RGB neutral (193,193,193.)
joe12south is offline  
post #995 of 1439 Old 07-26-2006, 03:37 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415 View Post

As for your comment on MM speaking the gospel truth.oh some urban legends are better left un challenged.


Coming somewhere from far above and everywhere.....................

I hear that!...........

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #996 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 10:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe12south View Post

Coincidentally,
I had done a good bit of research before going the route I did. Here's an image for your viewing pleasure:



Right side is two coats of Silverscreen on top of two coats of Kilz 2 (as measured by an old Colortron.) Left side is RGB neutral (193,193,193.)


Joe

That's a very interesting side by side comparison picture you posted. The image size is small but I scanned it in and the total color pallet of the image hovers around 4 grays and each around the 193 neutral. In fact the two sides of the picture are almost indiscernible on my monitor but show a bit more when blown up. If what you post is correct then Behr silver screen is possibly the truest of all neutral grays.

I understood the idea behind your color temp post but fail to see the logic behind adjusting a passive device like a screen to reflect a color temp that is individually desirable person to person or western to eastern cultures. The projector itself has much better ways to color correct and can be changed short term movie to movie or long term say as the lamp dims with age. My thought process has always been the screens should be our best attempt to accurately portray the colors being sent at them and in no way should it try and alter them. I know different colors have different wavelengths etc and that a screen at best is going to be a compromise situation over the visible light spectrum but that is a fairly narrow spectrum and is obtainable within reason.

If SS is RGB neutral 193, 193, 193 is it a safe assumption that changing the percentage of lamp black, raw umber, and Xred proportionally within a white base of the same volume will make new shades of neutral grays? I'm assuming that several coats of SS will obscure any effect that the white primer would add in altering the shade.

I haven't had the use of a spectrophotometer in a while and have been doing a lot of this based on observation and screen shots posted along with antidotal evidence claimed by members here as to color balance of different mixes with different projectors and what calibration was required after.

I'm a bit confused still about absolute and relative scales as they pertain to neutrality of grays. You said SS is very neutral on an absolute scale but warm on a relative scale. If I want a shade of gray that reflects and reproduces the mean of the visible light spectrum accurately is SS close to the shade I need?


Bud

bud16415 is offline  
post #997 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Important to note that your computer, your graphics card and/or your browser might be messing with your color. (Most drivers and cards attempt to do some amount of CC.)

The actual true RGB value of my measured SS swatch is 195, 193, 194. Do the math and you can see that the difference between SS and pure digital RGB, given the limitations of 8-bit sampling, is almost with margins of error. It is very close.

My Colortron is a very old device, but I do calibrate it, and it is accurate within its limitations. I haven't measured it again since the screen has fully cured, but I would guess it is a tiny bit warmer now then it was when I measured. (If anyone cares enough, I'll do another sample.)

Here's the logic in using the screen to get closer to an ideal color temp:
(Please note that I'm opening a rats nest with this one ...)

There is a specific "flavor" of neutral that we in the U.S. are shooting for ... 6500º kelvin to be exact. In absolute terms, it's fairly neutral. But relatively speaking, compared to other standards around the world, it's quite warm.

Almost no consumer projectors spit out 6500k naitively. The color of the light from the bulb is significantly cooler, and requires a fairly serious cut into the PJ's output to bring it into spec. (There are a few exceptions that come out of the factory tuned.) And, in doing so, you have to massage a finite amount of bits (even if your pJ oversamples internally.) The combination of reaching 6500k and maxing contrast quickly leads to a situation where you're clipping data on most PJ's.

I would make the argument that the digital control of PJ is actually a relatively poor place to make big, gross adjustments.

One solution is to use a filter, alternately, the temp (or hue) of your reflective surface can act to bring the total pic closer inline. Either way, you can then use your PJ's controls to fine tune.

So, in short:
Since 6500k is warmer than what my Optoma H78DC3 naitively spits out, by using a shade of paint that is ever so slightly warm, I cut down on the amount of tweaking I have to do at the PJ.
joe12south is offline  
post #998 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 12:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


Has anyone tried just a top coat of WOP or a mix of WOP with a smaller amount of Silverscreen as a top coat?

This DOES NOT work!!! Please don't try to do it. I did. You have to mix it nearly equally with a flat latex or else it is impossible to put on cleanly.

Quote:


Has anyone tried the Silverscreen in a satin finish?

You'll probably get hotspotting.

The easiest "Silver Screen 2.0" mix that I know of is equal parts SS, WOP and Polycrylic. 1:1:1. Pretty hard to mess-up.
joe12south is offline  
post #999 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 12:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
As long as you have a good clean base to start with, then I think you're fine doing it as a one-step application.

I was painting over green drywall, though, so my application was thus:

1) Prime
2) Basecoat of flat SS
3) Topcoat of mix
joe12south is offline  
post #1000 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 02:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Me? No, I'm not the Silver Screen police. ;-)

I have zero experience using Delta Pearl. I chose the mix I did mostly because it was all available at one store (Home Depot) in one fell swoop. I'm lazy like that, otherwise I would have done one of MM's mixes that probably perform a little better.
joe12south is offline  
post #1001 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 08:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chadci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beech Grove, IN
Posts: 928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am sure I over looked this but what does WOP stand for?
Chadci is online now  
post #1002 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 08:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
RodK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 19
in the behr paint faux section:

W hite
O pal
P earlescent

RodK is offline  
post #1003 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 08:39 PM
Advanced Member
 
Chadci's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Beech Grove, IN
Posts: 928
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Rod, Ironically I was just sitting outside blackening my lungs and realized what it was and was just coming back to edit my post but you beat me to it, thanks!
Chadci is online now  
post #1004 of 1439 Old 07-27-2006, 09:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bud16415's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Erie Pa
Posts: 3,128
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Joe
Thanks for giving us your ideas on combined color correction thru both screen and projector. I do understand what you are doing and why but want to let the ideas digest a few days and see what thoughts may come. One of the main things I want to check is the RGB values of my screen paint. Based on what your SS values are reported at my white base tinted with only lamp black and then mixed with equal parts poly should be extremely cold and have required lots of color correction at the projector. I'm running spot on almost and have rich warm tones.

What concerns me most and its common throughout almost all of the recipe threads is this. And I'll take Tiddler as an example as he's been posting a lot lately and is bringing a lot of good points into the discussion.
He's seeking a fairly straight forward paint solution. He wants to do so and get something that fits his needs long term and really gives himself maybe not the best screen that can be DIY produced but I'm guessing he wants to be in the top 90% of what his projector can do.

He's getting advice on paint mixture and ratios, but no one is asking him things like screen size, projector lumens, projector make and model, ambient light levels, etc.
Now I know he's posted this information a few times and I have even requested he post it on several threads. But without referencing these factors at least I can't see how he's going to come to a successful solution. I'm still firmly ingrained in the idea that foremost is this concept of how gray = lumens, then factoring in ambient light and then room environment (as it pertains to re reflected screen light as ambient) after those things go into the equation then things may or may not get added based on if the projector is running out of light to make the system work. If it is then he makes choices to sacrifice viewing cone for gain and how close he wants to push toward hot spotting in exchange for brightness. Lastly he looks at did any of these actions cause colors to shift etc.

If I had a huge room all in flat black and chose to have no lights except the projector light on and all outside light sealed out. My projector would be showing to an entirely different screen than what it is now projecting on.

Are all the mainstream projectors so close in specs and all home viewing rooms so closely matched in light levels that these paint mixes overlap all the conditions and provide good results across the board? It's been my experience (so be it limited) that these factors play a larger roll in what we view than anything else does.


Bud

bud16415 is offline  
post #1005 of 1439 Old 07-28-2006, 05:23 AM
Member
 
wbart4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
OK... I 've read until my eyes are burning. A lot of different mixes to Silver Screen.
What would someone recommend a simple Silver Screen mix for the following set up.

15x19.5 room with total light control.
Panasonic 900U at 17' throw onto the 15' wall
Looking for a screen size of 100" diag.
projecting onto ultra smooth drywall. Skim coat, sanded...Skim coat, sanded
Screen be framed with 1x3 and velveteen and some type of black fabric on a proscenium frame for the remainder of the front wall.

HELP
wbart4 is offline  
post #1006 of 1439 Old 07-28-2006, 06:50 AM
Member
 
wbart4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 70
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

wbart4,

The topic of this thread is the use of Behr Silverscreen paint. It is a tinted paint that Behr happened to call Silverscreen because it is similar in color to a silver screen. Lucky for many a DIYer it coincidentally does work very well as a front projection screen paint.

If you are asking what to mix with this Behr paint to enhance it's performance, then mix 1:1:1 Behr "Silverscreen" (770E-2) mix using Ultra Pure White (UPW) flat latex, Behr White Opal Pearl, Minwax Clear Satin Polycrylic. From what I have read this is the currently accepted enhancement. You could start with a couple of coats of just the Silverscreen paint. If you are not happy then use the leftover Silverscreen paint to make up this mix and top coat your screen.

If you actually looking for a Silver Screen paint mix then check out the RS-MaxxMudd for a pretty simple paint mix and application that uses Silver Metallic mixed with other ingredients to produce a very effective DIY Screen paint. You will have to be more careful painting though. Here is my golden rule for rolling any screen paint "Never end a rolling stroke on the screen". You must roll from top to bottom without stopping the roller. This means you should paint the screen in vertical sections. Here is a link to the RSMaxxMudd thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=593772
Look at the second post for direction from the Light Bending Alchemist responsible for this mix.

Good luck with your project.

Tiddler,
Thanks,
This information is what I was looking for. I think the 1:1:1 mix using Silver Screen paint will work for me. We'll see
That's what DIY is all about
wbart4 is offline  
post #1007 of 1439 Old 07-28-2006, 07:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Bud,
Couple of thoughts:

- If you just look at the numbers out of context, it might seem like SS has a lot of red in it, but the reality is that those numbers equate to a very small amount of pigment.

- I keep forgetting to mention, that my screen IS NOT pure SS. It's a 1:1:1 mix with WOP and Minwax Polycrylic. These elements also contributed to the final hue.

- Yes, absolutely all of the factors you mention should play a part in deciding what screen is appropriate for a given installation. But ... how many different flavors of commercial screens are there ... relatively few. Most digital projectors are fairly similar in contrast, light output and color temp. Really, the biggest variables are usually screen size and ambient light.
joe12south is offline  
post #1008 of 1439 Old 07-29-2006, 08:22 AM
Member
 
davedeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Graceland
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by wbart4 View Post

Tiddler,
Thanks,
This information is what I was looking for. I think the 1:1:1 mix using Silver Screen paint will work for me. We'll see
That's what DIY is all about


FWIW- I wouldn't call myself a professional painter but I am very experienced, however I would strongly recommend , if at all possible, to invest in and learn to use a sprayer.
I have rolled upwards of 12 coats (wet sanding each coat) in search of a smooth screen surface and so far none are even close to screen cloth. I can always see imperfections. Have also tried different substrates (drywall, hardboard, mdf) all with similar results (using 1/4 foam rollers).
This could be because I have been using a factory screen prior to DIY therefore my expectations are higher, not sure if that is the case or if I am too anal. Either way I have yet to produce a rolled DIY surface that is as smooth as a manufactured screen.

Also if you plan to spray outside consider creating a temporary spray booth to keep out dust and debris. I scrapped 2 panels due to particles (bugs) in the finish (afternoon- slight breeze- shade- corner of fenced yard- freshly cut and bagged grass - substrate supported vertically on ladders).
The best scenario would be to spray the screen inside an enclosed booth or room with adequate ventilation.

FWIW - HTH
davedeal is offline  
post #1009 of 1439 Old 07-29-2006, 09:08 AM
AVS Special Member
 
joe12south's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 1,212
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm nowhere near a good painter, and I just came off of a commercial screen, yet I was able to roll a screen on drywall with no visible imperfections.

Sometimes I think people get an inch from their screen and judge the imperfections from there, where there will most certainly exist.

Instead, view your handiwork from your seated distance while projecting a pure white field. If you can't see imperfections then, you never will while watching a movie.
joe12south is offline  
post #1010 of 1439 Old 07-29-2006, 01:38 PM
Member
 
davedeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Graceland
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe12south View Post

I'm nowhere near a good painter, and I just came off of a commercial screen, yet I was able to roll a screen on drywall with no visible imperfections.

Sometimes I think people get an inch from their screen and judge the imperfections from there, where there will most certainly exist.

Instead, view your handiwork from your seated distance while projecting a pure white field. If you can't see imperfections then, you never will while watching a movie.


You could be right! My critique is always from my seating. But that could be part of the problem, since seating is only 12' from a 90"w screen. Unfortunately I continue to focus my attention on the areas that I feel are less than perfect and therefore "seeing" them from any vantage point.

I think the silverscreen mix makes a good color for a screen, esp for the 900, but I like many am still searching for a better application method. I did read in another thread about someone painting latex over painter's canvas. Could BO cloth be painted SS with acceptable results?
davedeal is offline  
post #1011 of 1439 Old 07-31-2006, 08:08 AM
Member
 
cmkunisch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just picked up a quart of the silverscreen and plan on applying tonight. I got the eggshell finish and now realized the flat is the way to go. Does it make a big difference or minimal? I'm a rookie and not very nit-pickey.
cmkunisch is offline  
post #1012 of 1439 Old 07-31-2006, 10:59 PM
Member
 
davedeal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Graceland
Posts: 75
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well I just realized that a pair of idiots paited my screen. The first was the paint mixer @ HD who ignored my request and mixed SS in a pastel base. The second was me who didn't bother to look until the 4th coat.

What's the best way to correct this blunder - by a new can and start over?

What stinks is I have the room all cleaned up and have been watching this version for a week (wondering how to lighten up the shadows just a bit).
davedeal is offline  
post #1013 of 1439 Old 08-01-2006, 06:50 AM
Senior Member
 
sullender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I just painted my white wall with SS a few days ago (6 to be exact) and I must say, I'm very impressed with the increased detail. I notice specifically that the graphics on sports events don't have the pixellation around them that they did before.

However, I can't help but notice that the picture is really dark. I have a light controlled room. When the lights are on iin the room, I can see the picture much better with the SS screen than I could on the white wall. However, when the lights are out - the picture just looks too dark - darker than it should.

On DVDs like King Kong, you don't notice it as much - the black detail makes up for it. But on live sports on ESPN HD it looks a shade too dark. Last night, I flipped over to "How I Met Your Mother" on network HD and it was almost too dark to watch.

I only put two coats on. Should I go get a 2/3 SS / 1/3 WOP mix and lay it over the top to brighten it up? Or should I just use the projector controls to brighten it up? It could be that my eyes are just used to watching things in FULL BURN mode or something.... lol

Or maybe it'll brighten up on its own over time or I'll get used to it. Thoughts?
sullender is offline  
post #1014 of 1439 Old 08-01-2006, 07:13 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 202
sullender,

You have a PM with my reccomendations, because we must respect BCortez's wish to keep this Thread "Pure" SS

MMan

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
post #1015 of 1439 Old 08-01-2006, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bcortez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by sullender View Post

I just painted my white wall with SS a few days ago (6 to be exact) and I must say, I'm very impressed with the increased detail. I notice specifically that the graphics on sports events don't have the pixellation around them that they did before.

That's good to hear. However, 6 days of curing is still not enough for it to lighten up more IMO. I found that it took a minimum of 2 weeks for the screen to plateau, and get more consistent in it's ability. YMMV, but this is just from my experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sullender View Post

However, I can't help but notice that the picture is really dark. I have a light controlled room. When the lights are on iin the room, I can see the picture much better with the SS screen than I could on the white wall. However, when the lights are out - the picture just looks too dark - darker than it should.

Interesting, How long did you wait to make this conclusion? Did you wait until your eyes adjusted to the light level first? Many folks forget that our eyes can adjust much better than anything we can come up with in a paint formula. Afterall, our eyes have had millions of years to get good at it, right

Quote:
Originally Posted by sullender View Post

On DVDs like King Kong, you don't notice it as much - the black detail makes up for it. But on live sports on ESPN HD it looks a shade too dark. Last night, I flipped over to "How I Met Your Mother" on network HD and it was almost too dark to watch.

Remember, this paint was never meant to be the end-all-be-all solution to every video source either. In fact, dare I say there is no such beast. But, to each his/her own, I say. I'm glad to took the plunge, and were out only a short amount of $$ to find out too. That is always a good thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sullender View Post

I only put two coats on. Should I go get a 2/3 SS / 1/3 WOP mix and lay it over the top to brighten it up? Or should I just use the projector controls to brighten it up? It could be that my eyes are just used to watching things in FULL BURN mode or something.... lol

Or maybe it'll brighten up on its own over time or I'll get used to it. Thoughts?

You answered this better than I could. I recommend you wait at least 2 weeks more for it to cure. During that time, you could always be experimenting with new stuff, but keep in mind, time=$$, and how much is the real cost of anything you choose agains any incremental improvement you may gain (or lose)? You will always be making a sacrifice of one kind or another. To satisfy one video source, you might be sacrificing another video source, as with light conditions, etc...

It's all up to you to decide what your time is worth, and how to best spend that time. And to consider if that time spent was an investment or a waste. What are the main video sources you intend to watch on a regular basis too. All this factors in to YOUR experience, in YOUR theater. Nobody but you can answer that one.

BTW: I added your experience to the fist page of this thread for your projector type. I added a (3) rating to the Infocus 4805 to represent your findings.

Owner of the Tavern Theater(R) Pub.
"Where homebrew is always on tap"
bcortez is offline  
post #1016 of 1439 Old 08-01-2006, 11:09 AM
Senior Member
 
sullender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Vienna, VA
Posts: 204
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for your response. I have a Panasonic AE900U, though. The 4805 was my last projector, which I just projected on a white wall for the 18 months I had it.

I will definitely give it more time - then if I'm still not satisfied, I may add a top coat like Mississippi Man advises to do. But you're right - it's a really great one-stop solution that costs almost nothing and took very little time.

Mostly, I watch sports and DVDs. Occasionally, I'll play video games - but that's about it. I watch almost NO standard def TV. I'd say 75% sports, 20% DVDs, 5% Video games and other HD programming.

As far as time & money go, I'm comfortable with both. I frankly enjoy the never-ending quest of "tweaking" to improve the picture. However, with football season starting in 5 weeks (YEAAAAHHH) I would like to have this situated by then.
sullender is offline  
post #1017 of 1439 Old 08-01-2006, 03:04 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
bcortez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

bcortez,

Do you recognize any of the top coat enhancements as being the best to consider?

Do you endorse any of the top coat enhancements?

Do you only prescribe SS Flat?

I cannot state any preference toward one or the others, since I have not tried any of the proposed mixes at all. There are a few existing threads that discuss these approaches already, you may want to peruse them to find your answer. The only reason for this is I have not seen/read any quantum leap in imporved performance worth the limited time I currently have. Frankly, my original SS screen is still going strong, still working out nicely enough for me and family/friends. When I do find a suitable replacement, it'll have to be just as good but in more ambient light conditions. Until that time, I am still a basic Behr SilverScreen man.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

{I tried to deal with this off line but you have not replied.}

I never received any PM's from you (or anyone lately). I only recently got back online after having many personal tragedies in my life (both home and family related).

I would be happy to answer any PM's from folks if I can.

Owner of the Tavern Theater(R) Pub.
"Where homebrew is always on tap"
bcortez is offline  
post #1018 of 1439 Old 08-05-2006, 08:33 PM
Member
 
pgans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a slightly differnt application than most and here is the solution that I'm thinking of. I'm going to go the SS route because of ease and cost.

Living in an apartment which allows us to paint. The screen wall is now painted medium gray(obviously not good for viewing). I had a screen we had made, however in the move it got scratched and I needed a bigger screen. My 4805 has to be too far away from the screen to use any sort of 8' board. We watch 85% TV, 15% movies. TV with lights on and movies with about 100% light control. I was using a biglyle mix from about a year ago that I loved.

So what I'm thinking of doing is the standard SS mix(1 or 2 coats?), then the 1:1:1 mix of WOP:Poly:SS . How much should I mix up? I have some UPW high gloss sitting around, could I use that for a primer coat?

So basically I'm looking for suggestions, or comments on if this setup sounds good.

Thanks. Patrick
pgans is offline  
post #1019 of 1439 Old 08-06-2006, 09:32 AM
Member
 
pgans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 19
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks for the extensive reply.

I will be painting just the screen, with the rest of the wall being a darker neutral grey(we already painted this). It will be around 110" diagonal. The ceiling and floor are concrete so they do an okay job of light control. But in reality I'm using this mostly with ambient light so that is my main concern. I am a little worried about the wall texture but there is no easy solution to this. Plus it is only a temporary living place, I'm sure we'll move out in the next few years to a house.

I think I'll take your advice and go with the basic SS first and see how it looks. Anything would be a dramatic improvement over what I have now. I just need to get a good screen done when college football starts so I have 4 weeks.

Again, thanks for the detailed response. The instructions you gave for the mix, if I need to use it, are very easy.

Patrick
pgans is offline  
post #1020 of 1439 Old 08-07-2006, 05:19 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
MississippiMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Byhalia, Mississippi. Waaaay down in the Bottoms
Posts: 14,634
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 39 Post(s)
Liked: 202
Tiddler speaks wisely.

In MM-SE I used only 2 Oz of the Behr SM to 3 quarts (1:1:1) of UPW - Deep Base -Pearl

Many were the experiments by others hoping for more "Silver PoP" who increased that to 4-6 Oz. only to find the resulting Grey hue darkened the equation far more than the additional Mica helped with brightening.

On the opposite hand, the Delta ceramcoat Silver Mettallic can be added to great effect, all the way up till a point where you do in fact over-saturate the mix with too much "PoP"

The Behr product should be considered a "Base" component to be used in disproportionantly small amounts to the rest of the mix. And if it isn't a "Translucent" mix, it doesn't even pay to consider it at all.

In fact, SilverScreen by itself is better than it is with Behr SM mixed in any amount.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
MississippiMan is offline  
Reply DIY Screen Section

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off