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post #91 of 1439 Old 04-25-2004, 02:13 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mandarax
MississippiMan..

You make some serious allegations. My company hosts this event and invests several thousand dollars in it therefore you call into question its integrity and credibility with these allegations, and false statements.

You make the following statements.

*************************************************
Incredible.

Guys, despite all the glowing initial reports, Rob states the SS came in at the bottom of the pile. Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledgeable individuals, or the plaudits it received in person at the show. Something doesn't add up. From what I saw, and what others

I thought it was stated that an independent company was taking the results and doing the tabulation, but it seems it was really all just done by Rob. A PDF with the results listed as verified by the accountant and on his own letterhead would go much farther in convincing me and now quite a few others that there isn't some skewing of the results going on to satisfy another's agenda.

Hey that's probably not the case anyway, but when posted results fly in the face of popular comments, it does bring of a question of validity.
*****************************************************

These are very serious accusations.

First lets deal with your claim.. starting with..
**************************************
Strange results that don't reflect the first comments posted by several very knowledgeable individuals,
*********************************************
Where are these posts? other than yours of course. that give you the right to make such a statement.
*********************************************

<<<<Some were on the original Shoot Out Thread, which you have had closed. A few exist from attendees on this thread as well. Also, my comments had root in many likewise comments at the Shoot Out it'self. And to make a point, no where have I complained about the results that involved LF. Not one mention of LF has been made, excepting by yourself and others who support your position. Instead, I called into question results posted about a simple paint solution that experienced quite a lot of favorable reactions live, but then placed dead last when results were published. At no time did I make or plead a case about LF. The SilverScreen solution is completely and entirely a dirt cheap DIY solution that was offered up by me for all to experience, and in as much offers no possibility that I would ever benefit from or expect financial gain from anybody excepting those of my own private clients, who have no knowledge of, or express wish to ever frequent this forum. And said comments were posted on this, a very obscure thread, and not on your own SO thread. It's all pretty much a case of your grandstanding to press a point. >>>>>>>>

You suggest that I am unreliable... or not trust worthy. Please advise!!.. this is a public forum

<<<<< As a Business who deals in such products as were shown, and by holding such an event, and then posting results publicly for comment, without complying with the previously stated conditions that you yourself said, you yourself must accept that others will have the right to question the results. They have that right regardless and without fear of being intimidated, such as your words have been attempting toward me. Nothing in my comments went so far as to directly accuse you or your Company of deceit or misrepresentation. A viewpoint questioning the process and results is not slanderous, and your reaction thus far has been wholly disproportionate to the circumstances. Other factors are in play that fuel your ire, but they are of a personal nature and do not belong on the Forum.

************************************************

You suggest that the results are not adequate without the an audit with an accounting firm.. Please advise!!

**************************************************
<<< On the Original SO Thread, you plainly stated that such a Firm was in fact going to do the tabulation of results. Since then, you have related to me that it was Sharon, your wife, who did the work, in order to speed the posting of the results. This was not mentioned at the time of that posting, and had it been, I most certainly would have not ventured to "question" the results, which is my right to do so, publicly or otherwise. Insomuch as I now know what occurred, and having met Sharon, I would not ever be inclined to disparage her or her actions in any way. For whatever slight that my comments might have unknowingly and unintentionally directed at her, I am indeed truly sorry and apologize to her forthwith. >>>>.

Since you state that I did the tabulation and results that I am capable or would be inclined to skew the results.. and therefore put my companies integrity and honour at risk ... Please advise!!
**********************************************


<<

In light of your revelation of Sharon's involvement, and because of several other issues, I'll state publicly here that both of us have made mistakes, and both of us need to let the issue drop. Futher expounding on this matter publicly only serves to keep issues on the table that are best shelved, and to call attention where no attention is desired. I'll go so far as to state publicly that prior to the SO, I would not have thought it possible that in any way would anything involving the SO be liable to be called onto question. But if an apparent discrepancy in the posted results appears, then by denying anyone the right to respond with a question, you set yourself up as infallible, and totally without the need for review or comment.

You have requested some other conditions privately to which I will respond to privately as well. >>>>>>

Maurice .. these are very serious slanderous, allegations, and attempt to disparage my character and integrity... the character and integrity of my company that financed this event. I think now since this has been viewed by several people in an open forum and that your company as it turns out was representing what you do for financial gain, as written to me post the event I can expect an explanation of these theories and promotions of my character as well as my companies character in such a disparaging way.

<<<< Well I will respond to this, for the sake of clarity. If no other company that provided materials or equipment will publicly state, as many of you have requested that I do, that the express intent of their involvement was NOT commercially oriented in any way, or that they did not in fact hope for some increase in business should their products be reviewed favorably, then I would be greatly surprised. I came up there with you already knowing that I install A/V systems, and with them PJ / DIY Screens. You knew before hand that i wanted to exhibit a controversial approach to Projection Screens, one that obviously is the anti thesis of those that are manufactured. Prior to my arrival we discussed what a good showing might mean for the LF concept and you yourself were offered pre event the opportunity to utilize the LF screen concept for your own Company's benefit. It's all in writing and irrefutable.. How you can infer that somehow, I had decided to take a vow of poverty, forswear any future potential of using my concept for financial profit, and not look forward to some validation of my work by my Peers is beyond my reasoning. That is, unless I use you point of view. >>>>>

In any event, many people have read these allegations by you so ..Please advise.

Robert...

Your use of the word "allegations" is by your own determination. I call it "questioning the results due to circumstances differing from previously stated intent and know variables from the posted results." If your results were to be taken as pure Gospel, and without the concern of ever being considered unquestionable, then you are of a very special breed of individual. The like of which has not been seen on Earth for 2004 years.

You've made no claims to be of that ilk, so that puts you squarely in the midst of the rest of us.

And be advised, the above posted response was solicited publicly by you, and was not initiated by me in any manner. Do not suppose to turn my own response against me in any way. You have already posted private emails and/or PMs from me to others, publicly on the forum to bolster your case for a grievance, and those actions in and of themselves are serious breaches of confidentiality, by you, and the people who allowed it to happen.

I must now take leave travel to Indianapolis until Wednesday. On or about that date I will "privately" address some of the requests you have made to me, also "privately".

I have removed the offending post, so that future posters on this thread will not be "influenced" by it. Let these folks have thier thread.
Good Day.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #92 of 1439 Old 04-25-2004, 02:24 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by DustinF
MississippiMan..

3. SM cut equally with SS might be the next big thing easily stumbled upon.
(...on your Mark, get set............*)

I'll be game for this.

But.. do you mean as a base coat or as an all-in-one solution?
I've read on previous posts that SM+ME resulted in a poor screen so that's the only thing holding me back, as the SM+SS might result with same downfalls.

It might..., it might. That's what experimentation is all about. would that the SM be as affordable as the SS, I'd tell you to go get it and go do it. I still say that, but not with much conviction.

My reasoning is that a Flat, yet silver mixture combined with SM to 'dial down' the reflectivity somewhat might just be the ticket for the self same PJs that benefited from ME. Higher Lumen PJs? Probably not.

Good luck in any event.

Be back Wedensday

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post #93 of 1439 Old 04-25-2004, 02:59 PM
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Just got a can of SS and am ready to paint my screen but had a question. I would like to spray it on. Should the SS be thinned and if so how much?
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post #94 of 1439 Old 04-25-2004, 04:10 PM
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RalphArch, I believe they call it Flotrol to thin the mix for better spraying. I am not sure the measurements used but do a search for it here in the screens forum and you should find a few posts about it.

Good luck, I am anxious to hear your results as I may be doing the same

It's not the size of your subwoofer.....ok, yeah it is:)
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post #95 of 1439 Old 04-26-2004, 08:15 AM
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As a final update, I tried taking a pic of the three screen colors but the SS and the SM/MM are so close that my camera had a very difficult time refelcting the difference so I'm not going to bother posting it.

You can see my Valspar against the SM/MM at the link I posted back on page 4. The SS is identical to that lighter colored test panel.

As for now and all my testing I have yet to find a better gray color then that of the Lowe's Valspar Plank so I'll stick with it.

Sometimes you reach what's real by making believe.
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post #96 of 1439 Old 04-26-2004, 10:05 AM
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from what I have been reading (and I'm a newbe, so no flaming please =) )

the "color" of the screen is of little consequence when it comes to how bright the screen will be...I have a DLP (PB6200) and am more concerned that I have a screen as close to the brightness of a regular TV as possible...and of course as clear...I have just put my second coat of SM to a piece of hardboard, and am still not sure if I should go with SilverScreen, or MMud for the top...or OPTICOAT...which REALLY look like a serious contender....my DIY experience is fun, but I really just want the best screen I can make out of all this mess =)

soooooooo many options (MM, SuperD+, Opticoat, SS, etc...holy cow man...is there really any one that has a solution that is really bright and clear for DLP's out there?...in the DIY world?

thanks guys...have loved all the threads...you guys really have done some serious work, and I just wanna know which way to turn =\\

-= Rick
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post #97 of 1439 Old 04-27-2004, 05:58 PM
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Anyone else try out the SS and prefer it over BO cloth or matte white?

It's not the size of your subwoofer.....ok, yeah it is:)
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post #98 of 1439 Old 04-27-2004, 08:02 PM
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I'm trying the Silverscreen paint as we speak. The painting should be done by tommorrow night, and hopefully some tests will be done Thursday eve.

"There's never anything worse than a Technically Frustrated Man...."
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post #99 of 1439 Old 04-27-2004, 08:31 PM
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I painted an on wall screen (60"x80") last weekend with the SS for my Benq PB6200 and for the money i am extremely pleased with it. I was about to buy a pull down screen but after seeing one at a friends house i am glad i opted to paint one on the wall. With trim the total cost was about $30. I will try to post some screenshots later this week.

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post #100 of 1439 Old 04-28-2004, 03:27 AM
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What finnish did you use ? ex. flat,satin,semi-gloss?

Thank you
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post #101 of 1439 Old 04-28-2004, 05:16 AM
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Use the flat. Satin if you feel lucky.

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post #102 of 1439 Old 04-28-2004, 06:40 AM
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I'm using flat

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post #103 of 1439 Old 04-28-2004, 09:04 AM
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If you are painting your blackout cloth, then would you choose the satin base rather than flat? I may choose this option this weekend.
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post #104 of 1439 Old 04-28-2004, 09:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Try each on sample pieces of blackout cloth. What can it hurt? Then if you like one over the other, you can make a full size version.

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post #105 of 1439 Old 04-29-2004, 07:23 PM
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"Behr"with me this is my first ever screenshot. I made an on the wall screen with the Behr SS paint.
LL

You only live once. Get what you want!
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post #106 of 1439 Old 04-29-2004, 07:26 PM
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Another one from Starship Troopers. BTW I am using a Benq PB6200 DLP PJ with an HTPC as the DVD Player.
LL

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post #107 of 1439 Old 04-30-2004, 07:38 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dalton
"Behr"with me this is my first ever screenshot. I made an on the wall screen with the Behr SS paint.

Very nice. Welcome to the ranks!

Your shots show how excellent results can be using a standard mix like SS.

However, there is a lot of "Red" in that movie and I see none in those shots. (gore, that is. ) Take a few of the space ships in space, showing black levels. Use a Tripod or something very steady.

...and keep up the encouraging work!

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post #108 of 1439 Old 04-30-2004, 12:24 PM
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Thanks MississippiMan,
Yes i need a tripod. I will try to get some more shots with red in it this time. Very pleased with my $30 screen.

You only live once. Get what you want!
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post #109 of 1439 Old 04-30-2004, 02:12 PM
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Dalton, (...and others...)

Two additional tips that will work to tremendously improve your chances of getting a shot that is exposed exactly as it should be for your content.

1. Use Exposure Bracketing. If your Digicam has a Manual setting, the menu that pops up should have an Icon that shows mulitble frames with varible shades. That's EP. Some rigs give your 5 shots, others 3, but esentially, each one is a different exposure, shutter setting. Usually, 1 is significantly better, and this proceedure helps out most when your shooting either a very dark scene, or a very bright one. But be sure to include one shot taken on Auto, for obviously, that might also be very good. Just one other choice.

Also...........
Average Recommended Digicam settings for Screen Shots:

Contrast ; normal
Sharpness; normal (if Res. is 3.0 mp or more )
Color; Standard if low light, or Vivid for bright scenes.
Auto Grey Scale
Auto W/B

2. Use your timer. Wether you use a Tripod, Table, Chair arm, or lean the Camera against a Door Jamb, just be sure to set the Timer for enough time for you to press the shutter button and get away or stop all movement. At the exposure settings and shutter speeds that are required for a great shot, ANY vibration, let alone movement will result in anything from a slight blurriness to a waisted effort. With EP, you must expect the Camera to be processing pictures for as long as 10-15 seconds before the Camera can be touched. Otherwise....., it's a "Blur-zzard."

Now, lets see some real efforts to show how good a $25.00 screen can be!

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post #110 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jcam9
Anyone else try out the SS and prefer it over BO cloth or matte white?

I just finished my first coat of SS over Klitz primer on a whiteboard and have a number of split screen shots with the SS on the bottom and my matte white (Parkland like) screen on the top half. Will try to post a series here. Proj is Sharp PG A10x lcd

matte white top silver screen bottom



My opinion is that for me the SS is slightly preferable to the matte white overall - but that the matte white is better in some situations such as outdoor bright sports scenes and the SS is better in darker scenes where its better blacks enhance the viewing
LL
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post #111 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 12:15 AM
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matte white top silver screen bottom
LL
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post #112 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 12:21 AM
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matte white top silver screen bottom
LL
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post #113 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 12:27 AM
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matte white top silver screen bottom
LL
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post #114 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by RalphArch
matte white top silver screen bottom

Thanks for the nice comparison pics. The matte white looks washed a bit in the "green field" pic.
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post #115 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
Thanks for the nice comparison pics. The matte white looks washed a bit in the "green field" pic.

Yes - but I'm not so sure its washed out as opposed to thats where you see the enhanced blacks. (The upper part of that picture was going towards less contrast anyway) In reality there are quite a few situations where the matte white looks better to me than the Silver Screen - for example the vibrant colors in the yellow flower - I just picked some that were going either way above. I do believe in my situation Silver Screen is somewhat better on average.
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post #116 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 09:32 AM
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True. Would you agree in a light controlled room the white matte could seem better on average? And then in a room where light is not as controlled the SS would seem better on average? It sounds like it is a close comparison and may come down to personal preference. For example, I prefer whiter whites than blacker blacks. What kind of light control are you using?
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post #117 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 09:46 AM
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Ralph,

Is your PJ ceiling or floor mounted? It just seems strange that the bright scenes would be darker on a silverscreen.

Eric

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post #118 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 10:22 AM
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snowmoon
The PJ is ceiling mounted. Everything is definitely darker on my silverscreen. It looks like grayish paint to me - so I can't see where it would be brighter than the matte white in any case. But I only have one coat and perhaps that is a factor? Since I am just playing around with this screen anyway (its a $10 whiteboard) I was thinking of putting something like white opal pearlensce on in a light coat on top and seeing what that looks like before doing anything final on my big screen.
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post #119 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 1Time
True. Would you agree in a light controlled room the white matte could seem better on average? And then in a room where light is not as controlled the SS would seem better on average? It sounds like it is a close comparison and may come down to personal preference. For example, I prefer whiter whites than blacker blacks. What kind of light control are you using?

I was using nighttime with all the lights out last night - so it was great light control. Additionally I have a ceiling mount and do get some light spill off the ceiling(screen is butted against ceiling but the screen shots were in a 16*9 window of the 4*3 screen) so that may have tended to be a detriment to the matte white in the upper half

Today to look at the effect I opened up the drapes and watched in a less controlled environment. The enhancement of the darker SS screen was more obvious in almost all scenes when watching in the daytime.

Its true that the SS mutes the brightness but the extra darkness is really an overall enhancement w/o light control - although I will admit there are certainly scenes where the whites are obviously worse (just watched a short bit of killer whales on PBS-HD this am)

So I would say in total light control the edge would shift towards the matte white; and thats what I did have in the screen shots above (total light control and not a clear winner- but still a preference for the SS). I may keep both for a while and take my time deciding. If I get a chance I will post some less light controlled split screens
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post #120 of 1439 Old 05-08-2004, 12:52 PM
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HI.

Could you turn your screen so the line is vertical? That way we could compare sky and sky, grass and grass, ect..

Good work on the screen shots!

Steve
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