Behr "Silverscreen" Paint - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 01:59 PM
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It's not available in clear or opaque. It's actually made by Alcan Composites , who might also make Gator Board. I haven't seen Gator, so I can't compare the two.
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post #212 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 02:50 PM
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I just checked the local plastics supply company, and the lady there claims they sell matte white 4x8 sheets of Sintra for about $7.50 !?! Man, if that stuff works at all, it would sure be a cheap experimentation option. And it's nice and light yet rigid enough to be self-supporting. Sounds great.

On this post Mandarax said it works OK on its own but benefits from coating with Goo -- or probably MMud or SS or whatever.
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post #213 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 02:51 PM
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I'll be taking pics of my Silver Screens tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to get screen shots as well........

"There's never anything worse than a Technically Frustrated Man...."
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post #214 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 05:02 PM
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I called around my area here for Sintra and best price I could get was $65 CDN for 4 x 8 sheet @ 1/8th". But they can't get it in 5x10.

Matt
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post #215 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 05:12 PM
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Found one 1/4", 5x10. Will take 4 weeks for delivery. $100

Matt
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post #216 of 1439 Old 06-24-2004, 06:16 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Jcoffey
I'll be taking pics of my Silver Screens tonight. Hopefully I'll be able to get screen shots as well........

By all means...but...DB wants us to tag them and post them in the Gallery section or link them to other servers. I know, I know, grumble grumble.
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post #217 of 1439 Old 06-25-2004, 08:40 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by garyfritz
I just checked the local plastics supply company, and the lady there claims they sell matte white 4x8 sheets of Sintra for about $7.50 !?! Man, if that stuff works at all, it would sure be a cheap experimentation option. And it's nice and light yet rigid enough to be self-supporting. Sounds great.

On this post Mandarax said it works OK on its own but benefits from coating with Goo -- or probably MMud or SS or whatever.

garyfritz,
$7.50! It could be worth the drive to get a few sheets at that price. PM in your inbox.

Every market is different, but I would try plastic suppliers rather than sign companies. I was quoted $150 from a sign company and $25 from the plastic supplier. Some places carry KOMATEX, which is apparently the same and made without lead, so you don't have to worry about your kids eating it!
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post #218 of 1439 Old 06-25-2004, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by
Some places carry KOMATEX, which is apparently the same and made without lead, so you don't have to worry about your kids eating it!

If I had a kid chewing on my projection screen, the lead content of the screen would be the least of his worries...

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post #219 of 1439 Old 06-25-2004, 09:18 AM
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I painted my 95" diagonal parkland screen yesterday with SS. It made HUGE improvements on all levels. I think I'd like to go bigger though, the 4805 has enough brightness to handle probably up to 110". I might make a blackout cloth screen and try painting it.

Look over in the <$3500 forum later today for Guitarman's pics of our H30 vs 4805 shootout last night.
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post #220 of 1439 Old 06-25-2004, 09:30 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mbroder
I painted my 95" diagonal parkland screen yesterday with SS. It made HUGE improvements on all levels. I think I'd like to go bigger though, the 4805 has enough brightness to handle probably up to 110". I might make a blackout cloth screen and try painting it.

Look over in the <$3500 forum later today for Guitarman's pics of our H30 vs 4805 shootout last night.

Question for you as I am keeping 2 screens around (one for normal movie/DVD viewing and another (matte white parkland like) for viewing digital photos, digital camcorder tapes, and watching sports on HDTV.

I find that things like last week's US Open, and an HDTV soccer game I was watching from Euro 2004 on InHD, are actually much better viewed on matte white. DVDs such as Finding Nemo are much better on my SS/SM combo..

Do you also find variability in what you consider "HUGE improvements on all levels" when watching alternative material such as I am pointing out or is your experience better accross the board?
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post #221 of 1439 Old 06-25-2004, 10:13 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by RalphArch
Question for you as I am keeping 2 screens around (one for normal movie/DVD viewing and another (matte white parkland like) for viewing digital photos, digital camcorder tapes, and watching sports on HDTV.

I find that things like last week's US Open, and an HDTV soccer game I was watching from Euro 2004 on InHD, are actually much better viewed on matte white. DVDs such as Finding Nemo are much better on my SS/SM combo..

Do you also find variability in what you consider "HUGE improvements on all levels" when watching alternative material such as I am pointing out or is your experience better accross the board?


I haven't really had the opportunity to watch anything other than DVD feeds since I got the new pj last week. I don't have an HD STB yet (my other tv has a built in HD tuner with no output capability).

With that said, I like to watch sports in a room thats not as dark as a cave. I think if you have a place for it, keeping 2 screens is a good idea. You really don't need to enhance black levels for a football game.
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post #222 of 1439 Old 06-26-2004, 06:08 PM
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bcortez,
I was going to comment on this before the thread was truncated:

"Capturing "real" colors on camera

As a photography minor in college, I can assure you that no matter whether you use a high-end 6+ MPixel digicam or 4x5 ASA 100 color film, you will NEVER, EVER, reproduce what your eye can see. Your eye has literally millions more receptors which can perceive a much wider range of colors and shades than ANY reproduction method....period.

This is one of the limitations photographers must accept, and understand. This adds that "how will it look on film" question to every shot. Good photographers understand this and can attempt to compensate in numerous ways both in-camera and during processing to attain the desired affect.

Your eye has much better ability to discern shades of grey and black in low-light conditions....that's nature. Unfortunately, nature has nothing to do with our feeble attempts to capture her beauty, we can only get a fraction of the subtleties. Also, everyone's eyes are different, and see colors and shades differently

For example, I have 20/10 vision (unfortunately, I see SDE and rainbow effect everywhere, even at 15' back), with a slight pigment deficiency. This means I see better in the dark at the expense of needing sunglasses whenever I'm out in the sun (as evidenced in my photo to the left). This is why I plan to build a LFS when I get the chance, anything to reduce that SDE (that my wife can't see, and thinks I'm crazy when I try to show her).

"
You are spot on with this info. Kodak even offers a dedicated website covering almost every aspect of photography you can possibly think of. (for free)
BTW, hang on to those sunglasses. They may come in handy when you fab your light fusion. PS: Thanks for your DIY contribution. Offers members yet another affordable screen option. MM even mentioned he preferred it to ME.
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post #223 of 1439 Old 06-27-2004, 02:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bcortez
So, there you have it, my application of the scientific method in my experiments. Can you say the same? Have you done due diligence? After all, you said yourself, "it's a science".

I haven't had time to follow this thread of late. But have I conducted tests as extensive as yours? Absolutely. Far more so in fact, using several different shades of paints on several different types of surfaces. Likewise I too have a long history in optics and photography, having performed extensive tests of telescopic and binocular optics and the resultant color shifts from the use of different types of glass & coatings on lense surfaces, mirrors, and prisms. I've even had my reviews of these products published.

Likewise I have performed astrophotography and developed my own prints.

I'm also extremely sensitive to colors. I do wear eyeglasses, which correct my vision to 20/10, and over the years of being dissatisfied with every higher-index plastic lens I've ever used (they have chromatic aberration), I had to go back to using Nikon crown glass lens with Nikon A/R coatings - for which I pay a premium. I'm called the "human optical calibration machine" by my company's computer monitor repair staff because I can walk up to a monitor and tell them in a matter of seconds how accurate the color calibration and alignment is. And have been proven to be amazingly accurate for when they use their expensive calibration meters the results are almost identical. Likewise I've eye-calibrated some HDTV sets and then had people use the AVIA DVDs with the color filters to re-calibrate and found that the settings were near-identical to identical.

These are some of the reasons why I never understood why anyone thought Misty Evening was color-neutral. From the first second I laid eyes on an image projected on ME, it was obvious that it imparted a blue tint to every color on the screen.

SS is not as obviously off-neutral as ME. Raw Umber is a much better pigment to mix with Lamp Black to get to a gray neutral screen. My problem with SS is as I stated before, it is too dark for my preference. I don't have to run extensive tests to know this. Lamp Black alone in mixture of 0 20 0 for a gallon is already on the border of being too dark for me. Adding in an equal amount of Raw Umber would move it noticably darker.

Then, on top of this, is SS having a bit of red added. Red is my projector's enemy. I'm using an attentuator on my red inputs to tone down the red push in the projector. So I know I don't want red in my projection screen.

As I stated before, I can understand someone potentially liking the effect of the Raw Umber. But I would cut both the amount of Lamp Black and Raw Umber before using this as a screen paint. Indeed, I just may try out an altered mixture in a week or so.
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post #224 of 1439 Old 06-27-2004, 10:53 PM
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I, for one, wish to give Tom his due. He adds an important element to DIY. He's also one of the most eloquent writers I have witnessed on AVS.
Tom, your last thread speaks volumes about yourself and clears up many misconceptions. I now realize how important color purity is to you. I just hope you can find a mutual understanding for our differing preferences.
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post #225 of 1439 Old 06-28-2004, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Tom,

Thanks for that background explanation. Since your original message was the first post I've ever read from you, and it had an edge to it, I hope you can understand my defenses going up. Especially that piece about SS not being color neutral, which I never claimed in the first place. I'm only touting this paint as a dead simple and usable paint for those unwilling (or unable) to either decide from the myriad of formula's here or not enamoured with mixing their own. I may actaully try one of your formula's for a zone 5 grey. Can you recommend one? I can do a test panel and put it up against the SS screen.

Hey, it's all good. We're all after the same thing, right? The best screen for the lowest price. Alas, a Holy Grail it may be, but the journey is the important part in this type of quest

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post #226 of 1439 Old 06-29-2004, 03:12 PM
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Could anyone comment on the color of SS relative to the Carada gray or HCCV? I have a sample of Komatex light gray and it is much lighter than Carada's gray.

Ken
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post #227 of 1439 Old 06-30-2004, 02:20 PM
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Alright I have screen painting question for you guys. I saw at the first of the thread that when you painted with the Silverscreen after it dried it curled the board. I have an older Vutec screen that is a 1.0 gain that is a snap frame, and it is showing its age and instead of just scrapping it I was thinking maybe just paint it for giggles. Now it would not be able to roller it while on the frame since it snaps to the front of the frame and the material would bow. I have made up a giant easel out of a 4' X 8' sheet of ply wood and clamped the screen to it. Do think it is safe to roller it now or do you think that it will curl when it dries and possibly crack when I strech it back on to the frame.

Thanks

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post #228 of 1439 Old 07-02-2004, 12:44 AM
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Roll your first coat onto the assembly as is, then replace it back onto the frame. The paint that''s on there will allow the subsiquent coat to flow onto the surface instead of skip, slide or Flat spot.

If your using latex, and haven't thinned it too much or put too much paint down, you'd have to be pretty rough with it to get it to crack.

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post #229 of 1439 Old 07-02-2004, 01:57 PM
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I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Greg
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post #230 of 1439 Old 07-07-2004, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg Risley
I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Greg

I'm anxious to know how your project turned out. Any news to share?

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #231 of 1439 Old 07-08-2004, 11:25 PM
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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...63#post3993363

After reading this, I said "Hell, I gotta try it." I'd already read this thread and hooked up a DIY screen painted with SS when I got my x1. I dug it, but I thought I could tweak just a LITTLE better picture out of it. I'd PM'd people about their stuff--got a cool recipe for a silver paint made out of gesso combinations, found out what I have to take to lowe's to get Plank Grey made now (they don't do that one anymore) but Lowe's is quite a ways away from me, and the gesso was a little more than I was ready to spend right now--it probably would have had to wait a month or two. I was already starting to budget for it, though

Read the above thread tonight, though. I had more than enough SS left over (I wildly overestimated how much I'd need when I bought the paint) so I figured I'll just grab some pearlescence and do the 75/25 SS/Pearlescence mix as listed in the link above. I'm all of 3 minutes away from a home depot, had the extra change in my pocket, figured it'd take an hour tops to mix it up.

Mixed it together in a 1 liter container. 3/4ths Behr SilverScreem, 1/4th Opal White Pearlescence. rolled it on.

It's dried, but not cured all the way yet--and it's a DEFINITE improvement. Brightness increased, colors pop a little more, and the black level is just as good as plain SS--and since the whites and colors are a tad punchier, it actually makes the blacks look a little darker in comparison--or in contrast, as it were, ha ha ha. Ha. erm. yeah..

So anyway, I gotta give unending thanks to xanaduguy for taking the shot on something that hadn't occured to anyone. I'm vouching for his find--SS and Pearlescence mix is looking GREAT with my X1.
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post #232 of 1439 Old 07-09-2004, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Mr. Fatboy Roberts,

Can you taek some screenies for us to see? You can post them in the gallery section of AVS and then simply link to 'em from here. I know I'd like to see them, thanks

PS: Congrats on having an open enough mind to actually try something out and not judge based upon "knowing it won't work" (which seems to be rampant here as of late).


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post #233 of 1439 Old 07-09-2004, 07:51 AM
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It all sounds pretty promising, and the screenies by xanaduguy are winners as far as overall promise.

WO Pearlesence has been used as an ingredient in DIY creations for some time. The last "Silver" application to generate a lot of buzz was Behr's "Silver Stag (50%) w/ (50%) WO Pearlesence". Some swore it the best thing since oxygen mixed w/air, but when matched directly with Mfg screens at a shoot-out, it was...well, abysmal. (fuzzy image...hot spotting) I was there, and my Behr Antique Pewter (a DARK Gray) did better. (....but only with a 20-HD hitting it, which was why it was brought. With other PJs it too tanked badly)

Silver Stag was not made the same as Silver Screen (tint wise) and it did not have the advantage of today's better PJs. It was just 2 1/2 years ago but that's an eon in PJ and DIY screen development.

Pearlesence kind lay dormant in most's DIY'ers planning for awhile. My own use of it came as a obvious addition in MMud when I started duplicating CRT White Goo. Just looking at the Goo Topcoat one could judge the importance of the pearl attributes, but one could also see that it was nowhere near a 50-50 ratio. So I too settled for a 25% ratio of Pearl.
I tried 50% pearl 25% UPW 25% Deep Base as a MMud derivative and results were too close to the original MMud to warrant the expense of another Quart of WOP.

Bcortez is Da Man for raising the awareness of Silver Screen again, after it having been dismissed by most others a while back. (Tom?)
I enjoyed seeing it lift Eyebrows at the last Shootout, and chuckled at the attempts at damage control it generated.
Several AVS'ers are in the process of incorporating it onto various types of Light Fusion projects for increased ambient light rejection. That involves is being mixed with MMUd, which has the Pearl included.

.................but xanaduguy is the "Man -o- the Hour" and gets the credit for making the combination of SS & WOP a "Stand Alone" application So far, if his shots are to be considered a benchmark to go up against, he's raised the bar for the "Under $30 worth of Paint" crowd.

Maybe even for the more exotic applications as well. I started out painting walls, not mirrors. I'm speaking with no bias when I say that a Silver Metallic base topped with MMud (SM/MM) has up untill now been the best "Paint on the Wall" application I've ever seen. Oh...., but what a pain it can be! Even MississippiMud by itself on a wall has been adjudged the best overall Top Coat by many. (...once again, some expense and PITA aspects to deal with...)

But you just see how fast I will jump ship, change horses in mid stream, reverse course, and turn about face, and...well, you know....., go a cheaper & easier route. My Dealer base and myself look to these developments as an advantage to both us and our Clients. Anything that can cut costs while delivering exceptional performance, and do so with style, is in direct keeping with what our business models are all about.

I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more. But the best part is that it will accomplish that for less. Money, that is. You will still benefit from a concerned effort to pre-smooth your surface, and wet sand 2nd & 3rd coats. And don't spare the paint as far as doing 3-4 coats goes. The deeper the painted surface, the more the pearlesence comes into play.

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post #234 of 1439 Old 07-09-2004, 09:14 AM
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Mississippi Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MMan, can you clarify this part? Are you saying MMud on a white primed wall is the way to go now? Skipping Silver metalic for DLP HD-2?

Also, are you saying you think this simple SS+25%Pearlescent can potentially beat MMud?

Thanks!
- Todd
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post #235 of 1439 Old 07-09-2004, 09:49 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Fatboy Roberts
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...63#post3993363

Mixed it together in a 1 liter container. 3/4ths Behr SilverScreem, 1/4th Opal White Pearlescence. rolled it on.


Man, I gotta try this!!!
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post #236 of 1439 Old 07-09-2004, 11:36 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by ToddMcF2002
Mississippi Wrote:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had just about settled comfortably into a niche, believing that MMud alone on a wall would suffice for any 1000 Lumen+ DLP HD-2 PJ with 2000:1 CR and HD resolution. And most others PJs as well when the Owner was not looking to go exotic.

Silver Screen w/ White Opal Pearlesence promises to be all that and more.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:



MMan, can you clarify this part? Are you saying MMud on a white primed wall is the way to go now? Skipping Silver metallic for DLP HD-2?

SM/MM was originally designed to boost CR and deliver as bright as a image as possible while doing so. Prior to that, HC screens boosted CR at the expense of everything else. The PJs in question that it was originally intended to help were all budget PJs, and all had under 1000 lumens and poor to modest CR.

The multiple layers of MMud on top added a few other benefits. SDE suppression, even more 3-Dimensionality than ME, and a purer, more saturated level of colors across the spectrum. It's properties, and it's difficulties in the creation of such, led to the development of the current and various Light Fusion applications. Lest you think it all part of a grand scheme, the decision to explore the mirror route was primarily to find a more "DIY'er friendly route than messin' with the gooey SM to create a highly reflective base.

Even the most recent developments in PJ technology, and the addition of new Models to consider has changed things as we knew of them, just since this last December. My statement was based on the fact that I more often utilize PJs in the $4000.00+ range, DLP PJs that have no real need for additional help as far as CR goes (...can't tell that to a CRT PJ owner though!!!) Their resolution is such that SDE seldom is an issue (...much smaller grid..) In short, the more you spend for a PJ, the less concern you should have on getting a quality image up on a screen. White is universally acclaimed as being "neutral" and there in is the choice for most who know nothing else.

If making a true mirror based Light Fusion screen w/MMud Top Coat isn't possible, but painting skills and other materials are not lacking, a SM/MM screen is a wonderful choice for a DIY screen, assuring you the brightest possible picture PLUS the best Contrast you can expect from a inexpensive PJ.

Light Fusion with a high end PJ is just plain stupendous, but if the painted mirror approach is not practical, MMud alone on a wall will satisfy 99% of all who experience it.

There are the differences, and the PJ selection is the determining factor.


Quote:



Also, are you saying you think this simple SS+25%Pearlescent can potentially beat MMud?

As far as IMPROVING screen performance for a cheap PJ, the best yet least expensive DIY option appears to be Silver Screen itself, followed by SS & WOP on whatever. The screen shots of SS + WOP look to be so promising, I'm considering the mix on my next Mirrored LF screen. Why? To paraphrase a quote by Bill Clinton, "Because I can."

..............and we aint talking Cigars here either.......*

Who knows what to expect? But typin' don't get it done.

It will take a head to head comparison to define the real winner between them, and I'm sure that will happen fairly soon, given all the interest.

Until then, individual judgments based on available criteria can be made knowing there are different levels and varieties to choose from. As long as the price for performance get less, and not more, everybody benefits.

'Cept the Screen MFg.


To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #237 of 1439 Old 07-10-2004, 01:01 PM
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Can you take some screenies for us to see?

Would if I could. Alas, no digital camera. Sorry.
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post #238 of 1439 Old 07-10-2004, 01:25 PM
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Just came back from HD with a quart of SilverScreen. Will be mixing soon!
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post #239 of 1439 Old 07-10-2004, 01:44 PM
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I was just reading your other thread--I'm real interested to see how this mix stands up.
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post #240 of 1439 Old 07-11-2004, 07:21 PM
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I'll definately get there. Keep an eye out for it. Thanks for the interest.
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