Lets get Anamorphised..... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 09-24-2005, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so my current main HT set up I have a 4:3 xga projector and I am planning on using for another year or two (unless someone wants to buy it with two additional 4000hr bulbs...lol) so I wanna make some upgrades.

I currently have a 16:9 screen and the projector set in 16:9 mode and a Nextvision N6 scaler scaling all my HD content to it.

Having the overscan on the top and bottom of the screen is sooooo anoying and I feel that I am loosing a ton of resolution.

So I want an anamorphic lens to do this. I don't plan on buying a freakin $400 lens for this projector, though I have though about it.

To be honest when you look at prices and you start talking about HT vs business class projecters not to mention lumens if you want to go truely big screen or for even outdoor back yard fun.

I have read most of the DIY lens projects. Well there is only one and I doubt I could ever get it good enough for my eye making my own prisms with one side concaved.

Are there any other sources or solutions that anyone knows about?

I am continuing to search on the web, just wondering if anyone in our beloved DIY area has ha any success or knows of other sources for these?

313

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post #2 of 40 Old 09-24-2005, 08:09 PM
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Check out:
http://www.nizz8.com/panamorph.htm

Step by step instructions. I assume you haven't seen these, because nowhere does it mention concave lenses.

I followed them, and it worked quite well, using Antireflective glass. There is some pincushioning of the image, and chromatic aberration.

Having said that, though, the Panamorph P752 is far and away superior to the DIY lens.

But it is a good project. Good luck.

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post #3 of 40 Old 09-24-2005, 08:51 PM
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Here is a thread that uses a mirror.

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post #4 of 40 Old 09-24-2005, 08:57 PM
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Interesting post Steve, thanks for the link... One other thing the Panamorph 752 is selling for below $500 direct from Panamorph if someone has the environment/equipment to accomodate that lens.

I just bought a Prismasonic 600M Horizontal stretch lens with the current AVS powerbuy going on in the 2.35 anamorphic forum. I looked into the DIY stuff, but would have taken to much time for me, however I am about complete on my DIY screen which is 2.35 and 51" x 120"

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post #5 of 40 Old 09-25-2005, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Rock on.

It is just one of those things for me that there has to be a better and cheaper way to accomplish this.

After reating about the what is basically in these things holy profit margin! I mean seriously you can get acrylic prisms from overseas foe next to nothing. Ans well as the plastic or alum housings I mean I found a few sources and we are talking less than $30 in materials.

Lets say we found a source for the prisms, does anyone know what the correct angles for the prisms? or have a formula to calculate it.

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post #6 of 40 Old 09-26-2005, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I am gonna go ahead and try building the glycerin ones, I will post some pics when complete.

313

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post #7 of 40 Old 09-29-2005, 07:04 AM
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"I mean seriously you can get acrylic prisms from overseas foe next to nothing."

I had my prisms made up for me by a local plastics engineer for just $82.20 with water tight, removal plastic bung at the top of each one. They're built from 6mm perspex and currently just filled with water until I can find enough glycerine.

It's not perfect, but for what it has cost Vs what it does, I'm more than happy with it for now...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6286834

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post #8 of 40 Old 09-29-2005, 07:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX
"I mean seriously you can get acrylic prisms from overseas foe next to nothing."

I had my prisms made up for me by a local plastics engineer for just $82.20 with water tight, removal plastic bung at the top of each one. They're built from 6mm perspex and currently just filled with water until I can find enough glycerine.

It's not perfect, but for what it has cost Vs what it does, I'm more than happy with it for now...

Mark

I have one done, I ran out of glycerin to fill the other

I think total cost is less than $25, but I may have to redo them as I got glue on the front piece of one.

I used 1/8" acrylic UV coated sheet from HD. So we'll see

I am serious, If I could figure out the right angles to use for a solid acrylic prism. I could have them made up here at work or I can have a friend who can get me just about anything made in India.

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post #9 of 40 Old 09-29-2005, 03:44 PM
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Hey mission313

I have a Ultra Panatar Variable Anamoprhic 35mm Projection Lens that I got off ebay, I removed the prisms and have them set up infront of my HS20. I can measure the angle's of the prisms up to 5 min accurracy and then we could scale it up in size to fit any projector.

I have the first lens almost touching the recessed lens of the HS20

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post #10 of 40 Old 09-30-2005, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Excellent! I would think it would work. Do the lenses have any curvature for correction of the image? If you get some dimensions post them and I can draw them up in cad. Did the lens use 4 lenses I looked at an old panavision diagram and it had 4 prisms?

If we can get some drawings going I can get some quotes for the raw lenses and see how many we need to order to get a price break.


I have been thinking a lot lately about designing a complete mount system that has side to side and forward/reverse slide with front/back and side to side tilt. also a moveable anamorphic lense. Basically mount it and have the flexability for any set up I want. I could have a 2.35 fixed screen an 16:9 roll down and a 4:3 roll down all in the same setup and never have to remount the projector. I would probably never do that all that but ya know...

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post #11 of 40 Old 09-30-2005, 06:48 AM
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post #12 of 40 Old 09-30-2005, 08:18 AM
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313, make sure the lens you're copying is made of the same material, or the refractive index could be off...
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post #13 of 40 Old 09-30-2005, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garyfritz
313, make sure the lens you're copying is made of the same material, or the refractive index could be off...
Copying is such a negative term....lol


I am studying up on optics to try understand how to calculate it and this is no overnight become an expert kind of stuff.

So I welcome anyone with knowledge to come and school us.

Ideally developing a formula that we can use to calculate based on materials properties. IE Calculate for glass and acrylic. I know there was an excell spread sheet at one point but I haven't been able to find it in a working link.

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post #14 of 40 Old 09-30-2005, 01:58 PM
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Hey Mission heres some info. i drew it up in cad if you want the file let me know..

The prisms are round and made of 2 pairs . I did a screen copy of the autocad drawing. Hope I did this right..

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post #15 of 40 Old 10-08-2005, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mission313
I have one done, I ran out of glycerin to fill the other

I think total cost is less than $25, but I may have to redo them as I got glue on the front piece of one.

I used 1/8" acrylic UV coated sheet from HD. So we'll see

I am serious, If I could figure out the right angles to use for a solid acrylic prism. I could have them made up here at work or I can have a friend who can get me just about anything made in India.
My prisms are simply 30, 60, 90 right angled triangles (in plan) that are about 110mm high. I did make them wide, about 180mm on the base. Both are the same size, where many threads talk about having the back prism smaller...

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post #16 of 40 Old 10-09-2005, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericglo
Here is a thread that uses a mirror.

Eric
Here's a thread that uses a mirror :D
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post #17 of 40 Old 10-09-2005, 05:08 AM
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post #18 of 40 Old 10-09-2005, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence
You mean here is a thread that needs a mirror...

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post #19 of 40 Old 10-10-2005, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I finished my Glycerin prisms and did a little testing with them. I just don't think they will get the job done. the picture was just way to soft and near imposible to focus. There was slight barrelling, but much less than I expected.

So how does the picture look with the 30/60/90 Prisms? Do you get a sharp picture? and barreing effect?

I was looking at possibly trying the mirror approach if I can get some 10 mil mylar.

Edit: Has anyone played around with anamorphic for CRT. I would consider putting my CRT back in action If I could go 16:9 with it.

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post #20 of 40 Old 10-10-2005, 06:41 AM
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My 2 prisms are the same size. Each is approx 180mm long (on the base of the triangle) and each prism is 110mm high. The theory goes that the second prism is supposed to be larger than the first, because the light path expands the further it gets from the projector's lens on it's way to the screen. There is a simple paper test to work out the size difference, but as this was first prototype, I just decided to make the two prisms the same size (based on a statement from someone at diyaudio.com), and if I needed to change the angles, I would construct another and change one prism only. The plastic guy did a great job of the prisms and said that he could make many more from the jig I had made.

initially, I had the two prisms free standing on a table in front of my projector (which had been removed from the ceiling mount) and placed pieces of MDF to try and work out the size of the case I needed. The hardest thing I found was trying to work out how the two prisms interact. They don't just expand the light, but rather one can compensate the other's stretch by squeezing in the opposite direction. So in the end, you really do need to be patient until you can work out what each does.

I'm disappointed to read that your lens makes the image too soft. My prisms are just filled with water and tap water at that. The on screen images are sharp enough to still be able to see the scan lines right to the bottom of ther screen, though the lens did defocus enough to not allow the pixel structure to be visible. The exact amount of tilt is crucial to the whole thing working, as is side ways movement and front to back position. Then comes the tricky part, aligning the prisms. I do have barrel distortion, but building a curved screen has solved that...

I started a thread at another site which I used to document my experiment. It won't let me list the link here so PM me and I will give you the details.

As far as building an anamorphic lens for a CRT, I really think that you would need to build six prisms (two for each gun) as the CRTs are slightly off set to each other to allow convergence. This would be no easy task, as there is enough difficulty working with just two prisms, but having said that, I believe that once one pair were set, that the other two would use the same offset and angles...

Mark

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post #21 of 40 Old 11-18-2005, 10:21 AM
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Any new info on this front? I'd like an anamorphic lens for my LT150, but don't want to spend $500 to find out it does not work with my screen or projector.

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post #22 of 40 Old 11-18-2005, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I built a DIY one, It works but softened the image too much for my liking. I am in the middle of moving to Vancouver so I am kind of limited in my abilities for the next few months. I plan to some day get back on this and several other screen projects I started as well.

313

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post #23 of 40 Old 11-18-2005, 12:59 PM
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This needs to be done with all glass, shouldn't it? And softening the image certainly defeats the purpose. I wonder why it costs so much to make em. There was some chat here of getting them made offshore. Why can't we get a design that squeezes 4:3 to 16:9 and get a few made?

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post #24 of 40 Old 11-18-2005, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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We can get them made over seas, the issue is we still have to have at least one prototype made up which may require several revisions. I am also loosing some of my resources in the job switch, but after it all settles I will look at it again. I mean for me we would have to surpass the quality of the low end panamorph which can be had for $350 these days to be worth it.


313

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post #25 of 40 Old 11-18-2005, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shahram72
This needs to be done with all glass, shouldn't it?
Not necessarily, I've made two lenses now out of 6mm (1/4") Perspex...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahram72
And softening the image certainly defeats the purpose.
That right, but it depends on what you fill them with. Glycerine has been suggested, but there are several types and one reacts (is volatile) when exposed to bright light, and given the price of the stuff, you want to make sure that you have the right one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shahram72
I wonder why it costs so much to make em. There was some chat here of getting them made offshore. Why can't we get a design that squeezes 4:3 to 16:9 and get a few made?
The standard HE video anamorphic lens stretches the image 33%. If you turn the prisms, you make a 33% VC if required...

I have just made my second lens with some improvements on the first lens. This time round I made a 4 prism lens. I have not completed testing yet, but so far, it works better than my earlier 2 prism model.

Both times I have had a local plastics engineer make the prisms for me and he has very reasonable prices. He also informed me that if he was to buy a sheet of "plexi -glass" (8 x 4 foot) that the difference in clarity would be significant, but he would not get that material unless he had enough jobs to justify the extra expense...

Image 1 my first 2 prism lens

Image 2 my new 4 prism lens

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post #26 of 40 Old 11-19-2005, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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CAVX - Can you get a quote? I mean if he can make them for less than $100 ,I would consider it if you told me that the results were acceptable.

In my new HT I really want to build a HTPC for aspect control and go with a 2.35:1 constant height set up.

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post #27 of 40 Old 11-19-2005, 05:00 PM
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Mission313, I have sent you a PM...

Mark

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post #28 of 40 Old 11-19-2005, 10:10 PM
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Mission313,

What glycerine product did you use, and when you say made the image too soft, was it worse than my screen shots with water?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post6286834

I have had to change the water once, so am looking for a liquid with similar properties that won't go off...

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post #29 of 40 Old 11-21-2005, 04:07 PM
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Here is a few shots of my lastest 4 prism design...

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post #30 of 40 Old 11-21-2005, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I would say way softer than your images then again it could have been my shoddy lexan work. it was also UV coated lexan.

here is the glycerine I used just the Rite-Aid Version

http://www.walgreens.com/store/produ...2&id=prod13524

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