Ambient Light screen development thread.. - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 08:46 PM
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been reading these posts with great interests. I applaud everyone's effort so far! I was thinking about the Mirage screen from Screen Innovations and noted that their technology (fixed frame) works not like other black screen technologies that filter out certain wavelengths of light (and hence only useable in certain environments) but is dependent only on the angle of incidence of the light. This leads me to think that it is due to some coating or layers of coatings that result in their strong ambient light filtering.

Now the question to the thread is whether or not there is a paint coating or some sort of film that would have the same high refractive properties? Could making ambient light go thru several layers of taht coat or film also result in what the Mirage does?
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post #272 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 08:58 PM
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Found a website that's interesting. Maybe it'll digest well for others? I need a few more posts before i can put the link up...
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post #273 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 08:59 PM
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Almost there...
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post #274 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 09:02 PM
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sorry... one more post and i'll put up that link. I found it educational anyway in terms of what pigments do, how light works with various coatings, etc
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post #275 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 09:03 PM
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post #276 of 514 Old 12-05-2005, 09:43 PM
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I'm really liking what's going on in this thread, keep it going. I'm probably gonna use one of the ambient mixtures for my set up.
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post #277 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 03:50 AM
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Again, here's the 5PLV2:
4 parts UPW
8 parts pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
4 parts minwax (satin)
4 parts deep base
1 part folk art metallic sequin black

I'm still rolling coats of paint and here are my preliminary findings for the 5PLV2.

So far I have 2 concerns with this mix. My major concern is I'm getting roller marks and uneven coverage. I'm probably using the worst roller to get the best results, a cheapo 3" fine roller, but it serves me well for test panels. My other concern is this mix appears to be a little on the dark side for use in my light controlled room. For use with ambient light my guess is this shade of gray would be about right.

-----------------------

And now the good news, I revised the 5PLV2 and it looks promising. I give it the temp name of 5PLV3 (5 Part Light Version 3).

For the 5PLV3 I simply added more UPW to the 5PLV2, and this did what I hoped it would: a) improve / resolve the application issues and b) lighten up the gray a bit.

Here's the 5PLV3:
12 parts UPW
8 parts pearl (preferably delta, but folk art or behr will do)
4 parts minwax (satin)
4 parts deep base
1 part folk art metallic sequin black

I hope to view the 5PLV2 and 5PLV3 with my Optoma H57 and follow up with my findings this weekend.
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post #278 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 05:28 AM
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I played around last night with my other mix. I would now recommend leaving out the Folk art sterling silver and the aluminum, and adding more of the colors. My new mix would be as follows:

1/2 cup minwax polycrylic (clear satin)
1/2 cup behr deep base (1300)
1/2 cup behr UPW flat (1050)
1/2 cup behr Delta ceramcoat Pearl finish
1/2 cup Delta ceramcoat Silver Metallic
20 drops Folk Art bright red metallic
20 drops Delta bright red - transparent
8 drops Delta phalo green - transparent
4 drops Delta phalo blue - transparent
4 drops Folk Art metallic amethyst
20 drops Folk Art metallic inca gold
20 drops Delta yellow - transparent

IMO this is now perfect for light controlled and still gives a great picture in ambient light.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #279 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

I played around last night with my other mix. I would now recommend leaving out the Folk art sterling silver and the aluminum, and adding more of the colors. My new mix would be as follows:

1/2 cup minwax varnish (satin)
1/2 cup deep base
1/2 cup UPW
1/2 cup behr WOP or delta Pearl
1/2 cup Delta Silver Metallic
20 drops Folk art bright red metallic
20 drops delta bright red - transparent
8 drops delta phalo green - transparent
4 drops delta phalo blue - transparent
4 drops flok art metallic amethyst
20 drops folk art metallic inca gold
20 drops delta yellow - transparent

IMO this is now perfect for light controlled and still gives a great picture in ambient light.

I open the name game with "BigLyle's Rainbow All Conditions - 12 ingredients", aka RAC-12i.

Back to the basement. The wife has spent the last few days lugging most of my belongings to the curb. But I must find the ultimate DIY screen paint. Must continue. Must.....

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #280 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 08:40 AM
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Congrats on your new mix, biglyle. I will have to give it a try this weekend. And thanks for all your efforts. So far the 5PLV3 seems promising for light controlled use.
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post #281 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 08:43 AM
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The best part about my mix is that it is FREE

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #282 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

The best part about my mix is that it is FREE


Yes indeed biglyle, and THANK-YOU very much!
I can't wait till you decide on a final mix so I can get started on my DIY screen soon. Just a question out of only curiousity... How dark is the screen to the eyes (without PJ turned on) and with ambient light viewing conditions? Is it a pretty dark grey, or just a light grey?

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post #283 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

The best part about my mix is that it is FREE

Let me pm you my address, and when can I expect it in the mail?? Surely, if it is truly free and everyone wants some, you will go broke pretty fast.
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post #284 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 11:33 AM
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Well I should be more clear then. Free in information only. User is responsible for all material.

Hope that clears it up LOL.

The screen is a soft silvery grey when viewed in normal lighting.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #285 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

I played around last night with my other mix. I would now recommend leaving out the Folk art sterling silver and the aluminum, and adding more of the colors. My new mix would be as follows:

1/2 cup minwax polycrylic (clear satin)
1/2 cup behr deep base (1300)
1/2 cup behr UPW flat (1050)
1/2 cup behr Delta ceramcoat Pearl finish
1/2 cup Delta ceramcoat Silver Metallic
20 drops Folk Art bright red metallic
20 drops Delta bright red - transparent
8 drops Delta phalo green - transparent
4 drops Delta phalo blue - transparent
4 drops Folk Art metallic amethyst
20 drops Folk Art metallic inca gold
20 drops Delta yellow - transparent

IMO this is now perfect for light controlled and still gives a great picture in ambient light.

So take out the silvers and replacing with more colors and the overall tint comes out near the same?

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #286 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:16 PM
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Not all the silvers. Only the Folk Art ones, the sterling and aluminum. It also tends to keep the grey more along the lines of the shade I want it to be. By adding and removing drops you can tailor the screen to your own liking much easier based on your individual needs.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #287 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:22 PM
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I've been reading over this entire thread while being home sick from work. I must say it's quite entertaining seeing the evolvements from 1 mix to the other.

I have 2 questions.

1) How are you mixing these together? Wooden paint stir stick?
2) When you're measuring, are you cleaning out the measuring cup each time so no reminenants from the last color polute the new one?

Keep up the excellent work guys

Cheers
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post #288 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

I've been reading over this entire thread while being home sick from work. I must say it's quite entertaining seeing the evolvements from 1 mix to the other.

I have 2 questions.

1) How are you mixing these together? Wooden paint stir stick?
2) When you're measuring, are you cleaning out the measuring cup each time so no reminenants from the last color polute the new one?

Keep up the excellent work guys

Cheers

I can only speak for myself, but the answers are:

1) Wooden paint stick
2) Yes--clean the measuring cups. I used a glass measuring cup normally used for baking, and they clean out quite well with warm water. But I don't think that the ingredients need to be overly precise.

...Wish I was home sick from work... Maybe I could complete my screen, then...

Registered U.S. Patent and Trademark Attorney
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post #289 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

I've been reading over this entire thread while being home sick from work. I must say it's quite entertaining seeing the evolvements from 1 mix to the other.

I have 2 questions.

1) How are you mixing these together? Wooden paint stir stick?
2) When you're measuring, are you cleaning out the measuring cup each time so no reminenants from the last color polute the new one?

Keep up the excellent work guys

Cheers

1) I shake my small mixing container by hand when mixing small amount such as for test panels. For larger test mixes I stir with a power drill attachment in a quart can or else take to Home Depot or Lowe's and have them shake it up if it seems best.

2) I completely rinse off my measuring containers before measuring another ingredient. For small test mixes I measure with plastic 1/2 tablespoon and 1 tablespoon measuring spoons that are commonly used for cooking. I use a small cylindrically shaped plastic mixing container that I have marked off in 1/2 ounce increments for measuring larger amounts.
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post #290 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Not all the silvers. Only the Folk Art ones, the sterling and aluminum. It also tends to keep the grey more along the lines of the shade I want it to be. By adding and removing drops you can tailor the screen to your own liking much easier based on your individual needs.

And you think this is a superior mix for overall (ambient and dark) use, even over your 5 part mix? Pretend I'm a moron, which I am, and give me a short "why?" (channeling my four year old's second most-favorite word)

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #291 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

I've been reading over this entire thread while being home sick from work. I must say it's quite entertaining seeing the evolvements from 1 mix to the other.

I have 2 questions.

1) How are you mixing these together? Wooden paint stir stick?
2) When you're measuring, are you cleaning out the measuring cup each time so no reminenants from the last color polute the new one?

Keep up the excellent work guys

Cheers

  1. I use a "squirrel cage" type mixer for the initial mixing, and a paint stir stick after that.
  2. Another way of measuring would be to use a large syringe, available at home health supply stores (places that sell walkers and oxygen and stuff like that), called a "catheter tip syringe". I use a 60ml one, and it has a large tapered tip which handles even the thickest paints. You can just keep a bucket of water handy, and easily (a couple of quick pull/squirts) clean it out between paints. For smaller paints, I'm putting them into small syringes so the drops are uniform.
Patrick

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #292 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post

Another way of measuring would be to use a large syringe, available at home health supply stores (places that sell walkers and oxygen and stuff like that), called a "catheter tip syringe". I use a 60ml one, and it has a large tapered tip which handles even the thickest paints. You can just keep a bucket of water handy, and easily (a couple of quick pull/squirts) clean it out between paints. For smaller paints, I'm putting them into small syringes so the drops are uniform.

I picked up a couple of the "syringes" from Target that are used to inject seasoning into turkeys! I just don't use the "needle" that comes with it. (That thing scares me. )
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post #293 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 01:09 PM
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"And you think this is a superior mix for overall (ambient and dark) use, even over your 5 part mix? Pretend I'm a moron, which I am, and give me a short "why?" (channeling my four year old's second most-favorite word)"

I think this current version looks its best in controlled to small amounts of ambient lighting.
For severe ambient light I would recommend doubling the pigment amounts.

The reason I like the new mix the way it is, is because it seems to be a great trade off so to speak. Still quite good for ambient light but not to the point where controlled lighting viewing sacrifices have been made.

As for it being better than the 5 part mix. I just like the way it looks more. Seems more 3 dimensional to me.

I have pushed the amount of pigment to the max IMO before controlled viewing begins to suffer.

1/2 cup minwax polycrylic (clear satin)
1/2 cup behr deep base (1300)
1/2 cup behr UPW flat (1050)
1/2 cup behr Delta ceramcoat Pearl finish
1/2 cup Delta ceramcoat Silver Metallic
20 to 40 drops Folk Art bright red metallic
20 to 40 drops Delta bright red - transparent
8 to 16 drops Delta phalo green - transparent
4 to 8 drops Delta phalo blue - transparent
4 to 8 drops Folk Art metallic amethyst
20 to 40 drops Folk Art metallic inca gold
20 to 40 drops Delta yellow - transparent

Just make sure to keep the percentages of the drops the same.

Has anyone else tried this?

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #294 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 01:39 PM
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Well, I'll probably mix up a new batch when I get home. I'll probably split the difference, since my ambient conditions aren't severe but I do have some. Any magic in keeping the Delta silver metallic, to the exclusion of the other two silvers? I think I'm out of the Delta, but I have other silver metallics (the AutoColor one from Canadian Gray).

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #295 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 01:59 PM
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"Any magic in keeping the Delta silver metallic, to the exclusion of the other two silvers?"

Yes, its the lightest in color, has the least amount of sparklies and seems to work the best.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #296 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 03:45 PM
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To those wanting to use a roller for applying the paints, I have a suggeston that worked REALLY well for me. Very fine finish, truely it looks like I sprayed the paint on ! I had no roller marks at all, though I am pretty experienced at it.

It is a 6" Fine Finish Foam Mini-Roller made by Rubberset (a German company) . Part of their 'Quick Solutions' line. Do not confuse it with their 'throw away' foam roller. While the cheapo would work, you won't get nearly the finish that this one provides. Besides the finie finish roller only costs about $7 anyway. I bought mine at Menards. Don't know if HD or Lowe's carries them or not. I think they may offer a larger size, but my board is only about 72" diagonal and I was afraid I'd lose some application control with a larger one (though a larger size might actually be better. I dunno.) Anyway, thought I'd pass the info on.
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post #297 of 514 Old 12-06-2005, 07:38 PM
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Will this latest mix from Biglyle give good results applied to a sheet of acyrlic mirror in a controlled light situation?
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post #298 of 514 Old 12-07-2005, 03:00 AM
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Very basic questions about rolling -
Is it best to have the screen vertically mounted when doing the rolling?
If so I assume the roller motion should also be vertical stripes?
Is there any benefit from a very fine sanding after the final coat?

Planning to roll a Canadian Gray screen sometime in the new year.

dunamis
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post #299 of 514 Old 12-07-2005, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Well I should be more clear then. Free in information only. User is responsible for all material.

Hope that clears it up LOL.

The screen is a soft silvery grey when viewed in normal lighting.

It's also a Bald Faced copy of original material previously posted, of which you have no right to claim any credit for. You know this to be true, and so does anybody who has followed this thread and the tulmut earlier on on "The Effort".

What little tinkering you've done lately is not a basis for any claim of originality.

Why don't you reiterate how you have absolutely no idea how any of it works, or where you possibly came up with such an involved mixture?

Your willingness to allow others to credit you for your work as an original idea must stop. Just be plain and state for the record publically on this thread that the entire basis for your "creation' did not come ENTIRERLY from what was posted as the basic BFLF mix by Pyrometman, as well as info hijacked from the LumenLab forum, and see what happens then?

There are easily reposted records that will show your deception. Your zeal over being recconized as a creator of a unique mix will be your enevitable undoing on this Forum.
Get your own life and do your own thinking.

Your own credibility will be/is effectively shot down as of this moment.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

http://www.invisiblestereo.com
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post #300 of 514 Old 12-07-2005, 06:18 AM
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Boys, give it a rest. It's unfortunate that things have become as shrill as they have, and that bad feelings have caused a thread to be shut down. Squabbling will not solve anything, so let's not allow it to degrade further.

The "King of the Hill" thread is a joke, humor, nothing more. There could not possibly be any one "king" as folks have different tastes and preferences.

Quoting from "Holy Grail", Lancelot slaughter scene:
Quote:


Please, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion! Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who.

All I'm interested in is the most appealing screen for me and folks who ask me where I got it. It might be BFLF, and I'll be happy to pay someone for mixing it for me if I like what I see. It might be something else. Heck, I paid for Liquiscreen before I even knew this forum existed.

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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