Ambient Light screen development thread.. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 514 Old 01-02-2006, 07:14 PM
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Okay, movie time is over. I viewed these with my Optoma H57 in high and econo-mode. Over the previous couple of weekends I rolled at least 8 various mixes on test panels or parts of test panels for the purpose of getting some idea of how I would like to proceed with these new gray mixes. I should be able to post some screen shots later tonight for "entertainment purposes".

Here are my first impressions with these 3 mixes:

1. Canadian Gray (CG)
I had application issues with the Canadian Gray (CG). The blacks and whites were good with the lights off and both faired pretty well with some lights on. It rejected ambient light but really not as well as I thought it might. There was a metallic and unnatural look to it in bright sceens. That and the application issues pretty much kill the idea of me using CG. Color fidelity seemed okay but it's really too hard say for sure. Besides these problems, CG performed better in all light conditions than 2 and 3 below.

2. biglyle's 12 part mix (12i)
I rolled 3 coats of this over the vinyl side of a DoAble test panel; it came out with a definite pinkish hue to it. Overall it performed better than 1 and 3. Blacks and ambient light rejection were not as good as 1 and were better than 3. Color fidelity was off a bit I assume because of the pink and for this reason alone I would not use or recommend it.

3. MaxMud Regular as last recommended to me by pb_maxxx
- 16 oz UPW
- 8 oz Deep Base
- 16 oz Delta Metallic Silver
- 12 oz Delta Pearl
- 12 oz MinWax
- 6 oz Distilled Water
I rolled 3 coats of this over the vinyl side of a DoAble test panel. I was the least impressed with this test panel. It had the least ambient light rejection in the dark and with any lights on, and the blacks were less black than 1 and 2 above. Color fidelity seemed good. Although it is the most usable mix of these 3, I saw nothing special here so I'm sure I won't be using it.

Now for some good news. I rolled one mix over 2 mm mylar that overall looks better than the 3 above. And wouldn't you know it, I didn't label the thing. So for now I'm guessing (cause I don't know for sure) it's a mix of equal parts of Kilz2, Deep Base, Delta Metallic Silver, Delta pearl, and MinWax, rolled over 2mm mylar. It was brighter than 2 and 3, but not 1. It was more color correct than 1 and 2 and about the same as 3. The blacks were slightly better than 2 and easily better than 3, but not 1. The success of this mix most likely was due to it being painted over mylar. It shows potential and is the front runner for my next DIY screen.

And then there were the 4 variants of CG that I rolled. Two of them were too bright and didnt' work, but the other 2 had better ambient light rejection than Canadian Gray. Overall these 2 were darker and the whites were not as bright as CG, but they do show enough promise for me to roll a couple of larger test panels of them. Not that I would use either one, but either just might be an improvement to CG that some may be looking for. Of course I'm not promising anything here; it just looks interesting enough to paint a couple more test panels of it. We'll see.
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post #452 of 514 Old 01-02-2006, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Time View Post

Okay, movie time is over. I viewed these with my Optoma H57 in high and econo-mode. Over the previous couple of weekends I rolled at least 8 various mixes on test panels or parts of test panels for the purpose of getting some idea of how I would like to proceed with these new gray mixes. I should be able to post some screen shots later tonight for "entertainment purposes".

Here are my first impressions with these 3 mixes:

snip

And then there were the 4 variants of CG that I rolled. Two of them were too bright and didnt' work, but the other 2 had better ambient light rejection than Canadian Gray. Overall these 2 were darker and the whites were not as bright as CG, but they do show enough promise for me to roll a couple of larger test panels of them. Not that I would use either one, but either just might be an improvement to CG that some may be looking for. Of course I'm not promising anything here; it just looks interesting enough to paint a couple more test panels of it. We'll see.

Well that clears that up. I know exactly what I'm going to do now.

Drink.

Patrick

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post #453 of 514 Old 01-02-2006, 09:42 PM
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so what were these CG variations?
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post #454 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 01:21 AM
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Here's my Canadian Gray test panel (CG is on the left) with the 4 variants on the right. The panel is leaning against my white Dazian screen. The white screen is much more white than what shows in the screen shot. This is with lights on and with the camera's flash. The camera is a Canon PowerShot A410. For the other screen shots my Optoma H57 is in econo-mode. My projected image is about 84" diagonal.


With the lights off, no external light.


With the lights on, no external light.


With all the lights on, no external light.
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post #455 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 05:50 AM
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How many of you have tried BigLyle's original mix but without all the tinting drops? Since Lyle and others had commented that the added drops only had a subtle effect, I made up my mix without them and it worked great. No blue push that I notice, deep blacks, fantastic color saturation - far better than than the plain white I used before. The one tiny change that I did make was using Folk Art Silver Sterling in place of the Metallic Aluminum which was out of stock, so I ended up with equal parts of the Silver Sterling, Delta Pearl, Delta Metallic Silver, UPW, Deep Base, and Minwax poly. No worry about finding all those other colors or getting the right drop size.
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post #456 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 06:22 AM
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What you ended up with was a slightly altered version of RS_MaxxxMud, not anything else.

That mix was the starting point for the Black Flame mix, and BF when done according to mixture ratios published on this Forum does NOT exhibit the issues others' have encountered when experimenting with "drops". Trying the "Drop" route is more cost effective, but sets the stage for too much potential error, and then, when you start substituting and changing amounts, just a little too much of this or too little of that and your end results can vary wildly.

RS_MaxxxMudd is still about the very best "Non-Tinted" mix around as far as giving the best Blacks, no crushed Whites, and with no sacrificing viewing cone.

The question is; Can this post survive in a hostile environment?

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #457 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 06:59 AM
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Happy New Year MMan!
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post #458 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 08:05 AM
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"so I ended up with equal parts of the Silver Sterling, Delta Pearl, Delta Metallic Silver, UPW, Deep Base, and Minwax poly."

Try cutting down on the UPW. Just don't go below half or the metallics in the other paints will cause to many sparklies. Less UPW = brighter whites, brighter colors and deeper blacks.

"The question is; Can this post survive in a hostile environment?"

Hostile? I guess thats a matter of opinion, isnt it.

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post #459 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 08:49 AM
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And many Happy Returns of that expression to you & yours, 1Time!

I've enjoyed your recent forays into creating some comparison examples.

Lots coming up soon now that I'm getting mo' bedder. Kidneys have recently be adjudged as OK. My recent experience brough a whole new meaning to the Phrase, "I live & breathe this stuff." I choose to "Live" and let the "Breathing" be done through a OSHA rated Dual Chamber Mask, lest the "breathing" part stop altogether.

I hope this New Year brings a renewed effort for everyone to realize that sucess at what we are all aspiring to accomplish is what is paramount here. If something is posted on AVS by me, it's meant to be of advantage to AVS'ers and DIY endeavors as a whole. How one decides to get there is the only sticking point, and there should in fact be no "sitck" involved, just personal choices.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #460 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 09:09 AM
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I mean, what's IN the CG variants?
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post #461 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 10:28 AM
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Great test 1Time!

Look at the girls dress on the far left, where on the bottom there is direct comparison of an off white on a matte white screen and a grey/silver. To me this really demonstrates where all these grey screens really fall short. The amount of picture acuracy that is lost is huge to me. Yea the shadow detail looks a little better, maybe. That said the white is usless for the most part in ambient light.

I think there needs to be more focus on pure silver/pearl mixes. I think multi-coat solutions are going to be much more effective where you can control the absorbsion, the amount of gain, and the end finish to reduce unwanted sheens.

Maybe a light grey base. with a 2:2:1 Deep Base / Pearl / silver mix then a top coat of the minwax poly in a MATTE finish.

By separating the layers you can add less silver/pearl reducing the artifacts because they effectively do their job better because you are not coating them in titanium oxide. :P

You can also control the amount of light the screen absorbs by darkening the base coat. however you are only creating an optical illusion. Here is where the real value comes, you can now find the balance between how dark the base coat is and how much gain you need from the top coat to balance the whites and colors.

Just my 2 pennies.

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post #462 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 11:10 AM
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OK, so we have three camps. Mostly grey, with some white (Benven.) Mostly white, with some silver, no tint (RS_MMaxxxxxxxxxx.) Mostly white, some silver, tinted (BFLF and Lyle, to name but a couple.)

The questions are, of what value are the colored pigments? And is there some lumen cutoff below which the pigments are less effective?

I realize this is treading old ground, but humor me. I could read a billion comments back and forth, but I'd like to hear the opinions again from the most recent practitioners.

Patrick

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post #463 of 514 Old 01-03-2006, 03:04 PM
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Just finished my Screen using a 10'x5" sheet of polywall. I used biglyles 12 part mix over 3 coats of UPW high gloss. I had to tweek biglyles mix a bit because like others it came out pinkish at first. I just added some more of the blue and green to balance it out. I was'nt getting good coverage so i had to sand the 2nd coat of mix with 600 grit sandpaper. The last coat when on nice and completely covered the UPW high gloss. Picture looks nice. I have the Panny AE900. The only thing that concerns me is the sparkles in the pearl finish. I did use the right amounts of Pearl according to the formula mix. When you see bright shots its almost like theres a fine speckled film in front of the image. Hard to describe but im sure most of you know what im talking about. I just finished painting it this morning so im hoping when it cures some of the sparkle issue will clear up. Maybe some of you guys could tell me if it will? I have a crappy digital camera or else i would show some screen shots.
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post #464 of 514 Old 01-04-2006, 04:46 AM
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The sparklies will go away as it cures. Two weeks from now it should look great.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #465 of 514 Old 01-04-2006, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psennett View Post


The questions are, of what value are the colored pigments? And is there some lumen cutoff below which the pigments are less effective?

I realize this is treading old ground, but humor me. I could read a billion comments back and forth, but I'd like to hear the opinions again from the most recent practitioners.

Patrick


From the 'original Black Flame' and RS_MaxxxMud Camp.


The various 'reccomended pigments' as published, when utilized in the 'correct' amounts and combination, can provide the following:

A. Enhanced Contrast and Ambient Light Viewability

1. At Full Strength and with 1100+ lumens, BFLF (Mirrored) will do the best job of providing remarkable full light viewability, as well as maintain intense color, IMO.

2. At Full Strength and with 1500+ lumens, BF on a Wall or Board application is almost equal to BFLF, but a very slight reduction of viewing cone is apparent.

3. Various different levels of Lumens can be accomodated by the addition of a small percentage of UPW "ONLY" to provide either a brighter image in "Dark Room" conditions, or to compensate for a lack of PJ lumenosity in Ambient Light situations. However, the more "lightened" the mix is made, the less ambient light viewability there is. If the initial 'pigmented' mix is correctly assembled, thenvirtually any variable can be acheived through the careful introduction of UPW.

4. For PJs under 7-800 "Mfg Quoted" Lumens, RS_MaxxxMud is a better choice than BF.

B. Color Saturation

1. At any strength, the reccomended pigments augment, and correct the Colors and Gray Scale that is normally lost, overly enhanced, or muted when darker Gray or heavy Silver mixes are utilized.

2. At non-reccomended strengths and with greviously altered combinations, the pigments can drastically alter the perceived color balance. A Blue or Red tint to a mix "in the Can" means a wrongful tact has been made. Crushed Whites mean something is amiss. A dull image likewise.

The above 'could' be construed as being "An opinion", but coming from quite a bit of previous experience with the aforementioned mix/es, it 'can' be counted upon as tried & true. It is up to whoever to decide which route is best to take.

Most all of the recent variations to the "Ambient Light" offer some things previously unavailable. Also, some things that previously were to be avoided if possible.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #466 of 514 Old 01-04-2006, 12:47 PM
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MMan,

Are all the lumen levels you post "Mfg quoted," or just the final one? I'm guessing all, but would greatly appreciate clarification.

Thanks.
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post #467 of 514 Old 01-04-2006, 04:42 PM
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All of 'em

The figures will vary widely dependent on how you calibrate your PJ, throw distance, Bulb life, etc.

A general rule of thumb is to take the Mfg specs, and cut 'em in half.

A 2600 lumen presentation PJ set to economy, and calibrated to an accurate 6500k will hit approx 1300 "true" lumens at most. At that actual lumen level, almost anything is possible with a well performing Ambient Light Mix. So it would be also with a dark gray HC Screen, but the resulting color shifts and crushing would make almost any of the newly minted PJ enthusiasts around here on AVS puke. Let's not talk about the expense of such a screen if it was larger than 108" diagonal.

I'm quite satisfied that there is now a whole new level of expectation as to the end results one can and should expect when going the DIY route. I've always tried to advocate applications that could hold their own against virtually any Mfg screen, and now that there are so many others feeling the same fire, it bodes well for us all.

Oh, there will still always be the "UPW (/Eggshell) only", Raw Parkland & Do-able, and BO crowd to dispute the need for such advanced DIY applications, and actually, for Light Controlled situations utilizing the newest PJs of today's offerings, they are essentially right, it the simplest of terms. Money. But one of the outstanding aspects of a multi-pigment Mix that 'works' is how it can enhance EVERY aspect of the viewing experience, and distract from virtually none of the desired aspects.

Here's the rude comment intended to rile those who defend Mfg Screens over DIY endeavors.

DIY Screens that employ such advanced methods are no longer "passive", inasmuch as they do in fact significantly alter and enhance the image far beyond what a reference white can do.

That is what is so special. And the fact that us DIY'ers made it happen, NOT the Mfgs........, super special.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #468 of 514 Old 01-05-2006, 07:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

From the 'original Black Flame' and RS_MaxxxMud Camp.

The various 'reccomended pigments' as published, when utilized in the 'correct' amounts and combination, can provide the following:

A. Enhanced Contrast and Ambient Light Viewability

1. At Full Strength and with 1100+ lumens, BFLF (Mirrored) will do the best job of providing remarkable full light viewability, as well as maintain intense color, IMO.

2. At Full Strength and with 1500+ lumens, BF on a Wall or Board application is almost equal to BFLF, but a very slight reduction of viewing cone is apparent.

3. Various different levels of Lumens can be accomodated by the addition of a small percentage of UPW "ONLY" to provide either a brighter image in "Dark Room" conditions, or to compensate for a lack of PJ lumenosity in Ambient Light situations. However, the more "lightened" the mix is made, the less ambient light viewability there is. If the initial 'pigmented' mix is correctly assembled, thenvirtually any variable can be acheived through the careful introduction of UPW.

4. For PJs under 7-800 "Mfg Quoted" Lumens, RS_MaxxxMud is a better choice than BF.

B. Color Saturation

1. At any strength, the reccomended pigments augment, and correct the Colors and Gray Scale that is normally lost, overly enhanced, or muted when darker Gray or heavy Silver mixes are utilized.

2. At non-reccomended strengths and with greviously altered combinations, the pigments can drastically alter the perceived color balance. A Blue or Red tint to a mix "in the Can" means a wrongful tact has been made. Crushed Whites mean something is amiss. A dull image likewise.

The above 'could' be construed as being "An opinion", but coming from quite a bit of previous experience with the aforementioned mix/es, it 'can' be counted upon as tried & true. It is up to whoever to decide which route is best to take.

Most all of the recent variations to the "Ambient Light" offer some things previously unavailable. Also, some things that previously were to be avoided if possible.

So, the main difference between the "tint" and "no-tint" mixtures is some degree of color correction/enhancement that higher lumen PJs can take advantage of.

I get the impression that you don't think much of using tints with lower lumen PJs. But doesn't the overall "darkness" of the paint application matter more than how it was achieved (ie: more grey vs more tint)?

Patrick

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post #469 of 514 Old 01-05-2006, 08:23 AM
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Yes..........., and no.

Without the proper ratios of particular tints, both ambient light and color enhancement is either lost or skewered toward undesirable results.

To be able to obtain both is the real issue and desire.

Lower Lumen PJs can benefit, but careful adjudgement as to how much of the Silver/Pearl/Tints can be used and in what amounts is what decides whether or not you get a "WOW" or "Crap" factor.

It is, and always has been a almost futile effort for those with very low lumen* PJs to try to also retain veiw-ability with very much of a degree of Ambient light present .(*under 350 'real' lumens)

The old Z1s' & Z2s', as well as X1s' were not all that bright, but when they hit MM/LF, it was a different story, and I could make screens far larger than was currently recomended. But still, no real degree of ambient light potential was there, as was in the older SM/MM applications. Any real boosting of Contrast was also absent.

With RS-MaxxxMud, BF & BFLF, the effort to provide ambient light veiw-ability, color enhancement during such times without creating adverse shifting, and the retaining of every bit of the "dark room" viewing excellence was always the essential goal. But without adequate lumens, the ingredient ratios must fall down into ranges where the very first thing that suffers is the degree of ambient light that can be accommodated. An excellent image is still obtainable, and for certain, ambient light veiw-ability, is certainly better than otherwise it would be, but it would not be on the order of something that would cause the hue and cry around here on AVS .

RS-MaxxxMud ( on Mirror or Wall / Board ) probably comes as close to being an ideal mix for those who don't want too much fuss as anything I can suggest. It can be easily adjusted to achieve contrast boosting to the point where probably 90% of everyone who needs such would be satisfied. Or omit such if the PJ doesn't need a lot of assistance. And it can do so with almost ANY PJ. But to throw open curtains, set the Can Lights to blazin' levels, and conduct business in high Ambient light, it's gonna take something that can reject ambient light for the accommodation of the PJs more direct light.

That will only happen whenever the PJ's lumens hitting the screen are at least high enough to measure with some equality against the lumen level of the ambient light hitting the same surface. Most presentation PJs certainly have enough brightness to punch up an viewable image, but ambient light can destroy any decent contrast, leaving those images from such machines pretty bland looking. Gray HC screens can help, but all too often at the expense of color correctness.

In those instances, a correct mixture of pigments can work the magic we all have seen on here in one form or another. Everything MUST be adjusted downward from those levels, depending on the PJ, screen size, and light levels.

Would that is be so easy to have to just use one application for everything required of all ambient light situations.

To be a "working mix", a mix must be easily adjustable across the widest possible range. It must be a certain "Dark Base", to which "more" brightness can be added, not where you use "less" or "deleted" pigments.

That of course is an observation made via practice, viewing such results across several viewing platforms and conditions, and is based on my feeling that the mixes I advocate do exactly as I have suggested that a proper Mix should do.

THAT I cannot help but to do, and will continue to do when asked.

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post #470 of 514 Old 01-08-2006, 01:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esean View Post

How many of you have tried BigLyle's original mix but without all the tinting drops? Since Lyle and others had commented that the added drops only had a subtle effect, I made up my mix without them and it worked great. No blue push that I notice, deep blacks, fantastic color saturation - far better than than the plain white I used before. The one tiny change that I did make was using Folk Art Silver Sterling in place of the Metallic Aluminum which was out of stock, so I ended up with equal parts of the Silver Sterling, Delta Pearl, Delta Metallic Silver, UPW, Deep Base, and Minwax poly. No worry about finding all those other colors or getting the right drop size.

esean,

After mixing a few paints tonight, I've concluded your substitution of Silver Sterling for the Aluminum was a good one. I'm going to give this mix a try, but I will substitute Kilz2 primer for UPW. Thanks for posting your results!

Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Try cutting down on the UPW. Just don't go below half or the metallics in the other paints will cause to many sparklies. Less UPW = brighter whites, brighter colors and deeper blacks.

biglyle,

And a big thanks to you for sharing all of your paint mixes and expertise with us DIYers here on AVS.
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post #471 of 514 Old 01-11-2006, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes......

many thanks to Big Lyle for all his hard work, testing and DIY spirit....Great Work!!
TJ
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post #472 of 514 Old 01-12-2006, 07:00 PM
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Anyone got accurate pigment measurements in a measureable form yet?

Not all drops are created equal!
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post #473 of 514 Old 01-12-2006, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym View Post

Anyone got accurate pigment measurements in a measureable form yet?

Not all drops are created equal!

That has been mentioned several times and the best suggestion IMO offered has been to weigh the pigments for the ratio rather than using liquid volumes. Now if I could just come up with an accurate scale
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post #474 of 514 Old 01-12-2006, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mynym View Post

Anyone got accurate pigment measurements in a measureable form yet?

Not all drops are created equal!

Well, it was my bright idea to draw them up in approximately the stated ratios, into a syringe, and mix the batch that way. Didn't work out so well. The mix came out pink/purple tinted.

My suggestion would be to cut the red and purple about in half, mix it all up, and see if you get a sort of sparkly neutral color (no visible dominance of any color, particularly reddishness.)

If it's too red/purple, add some extra blue/yellow/green. Vice-versa if too blue or green or yellow. But, then again, I'm a confirmed numbnut when it comes to mixing this stuff. That's my next (third) batch strategery.

Patrick

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #475 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 04:17 AM
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To get the best ambient light rejection, a slight reddish tone is what you want. At least this is what I am noticing.

As for the drops.

Put the polyurethane in a cup and use a teaspoon measure for the colors. Add them to the polyurethane so they mix easy, then add this to the base mix.
1 teaspoon for everything but the blue and green. 1/2 teaspoon for the green, 1/4 for the blue and amethyst.

One more thing. I have been using a new deep base product as it is much easier to roll. It is IMO the best deep base you can buy. It is Dulux diamond mat interior latex, deep base, product number 12119

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #476 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

To get the best ambient light rejection, a slight reddish tone is what you want. At least this is what I am noticing.

As for the drops.

Put the polyurethane in a cup and use a teaspoon measure for the colors. Add them to the polyurethane so they mix easy, then add this to the base mix.
1 teaspoon for everything but the blue and green. 1/2 teaspoon for the green, 1/4 for the blue and amethyst.

One more thing. I have been using a new deep base product as it is much easier to roll. It is IMO the best deep base you can buy. It is Dulux diamond mat interior latex, deep base, product number 12119

Someone, somewhere speculated that the slightly reddish tone you desire was more specific to your PJ. Not vouching for the veracity of that opinion.

Somewhere in my conversions from your tsp to my ML, I added 20% more of the reds in (from a 4:1 red:blue ratio, to a 5:1.) That accounts for the extra sunburn I was seeing.

Your "new" deep base doesn't affect the projecting qualities, only the rolling, correct?

Patrick

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #477 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 05:53 AM
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"Your "new" deep base doesn't affect the projecting qualities, only the rolling, correct?"

It doesnt seem to effect the finished product at all, picture wise.
This new deep base is a lot thinner in consistency than the Behr. It has a real nice smooth feel and rolls like a normal white base paint.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #478 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

"Your "new" deep base doesn't affect the projecting qualities, only the rolling, correct?"

It doesnt seem to effect the finished product at all, picture wise.
This new deep base is a lot thinner in consistency than the Behr. It has a real nice smooth feel and rolls like a normal white base paint.

You seem to be a little too pleased about the "nice, smooth" consistency of that paint. I'm getting a really bad visual picture, even for Friday the 13th.

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #479 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 06:31 AM
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"You seem to be a little too pleased about the "nice, smooth" consistency of that paint. I'm getting a really bad visual picture, even for Friday the 13th."

LOL, NO MIX FOR YOU!!!

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #480 of 514 Old 01-13-2006, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

To get the best ambient light rejection, a slight reddish tone is what you want. At least this is what I am noticing.

As for the drops.

Put the polyurethane in a cup and use a teaspoon measure for the colors. Add them to the polyurethane so they mix easy, then add this to the base mix.
1 teaspoon for everything but the blue and green. 1/2 teaspoon for the green, 1/4 for the blue and amethyst.

One more thing. I have been using a new deep base product as it is much easier to roll. It is IMO the best deep base you can buy. It is Dulux diamond mat interior latex, deep base, product number 12119

Anyone want to recap on Lyle's suggestions regarding measurements of each pigment and consolidate his new enhancements including the Dulux Diamond mat interior latex?

I'm feeling lost at this point.
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