Behr SS as base of simple mixes... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 06:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Just wanting to start a new discussion on the use of Behr SS as the base for more simplified DIY mixes. Something that perhaps has say no more than 3-4 components but offers a step up from basic Behr SS. There has been talk of adding SM and Minwax to the mix for example in other threads.

There seems to be lots of super complex mixes floatign around now, but for many these are a lot of extra effort for the gain it provides over a dead simple solution. Perhaps we can find a middle ground that a normal person can quickly mix, roll, and enjoy.

What have people tried and what have been the results?

Lets try and keep this thread simple enough for the average home DIY type. If you need a degree in Chemistry or Bullsh*t then lets leave it out of this for other threads ;)

So goal is:
Simple to mix and roll
Cheap and easy to find components
Offers a step up from basic Behr SS one coat solution
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post #2 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 07:41 AM
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thanks

this is great Idea as the discussions going on are very confusing I persume most of the members would want a simple solution as they donot understand all the nuances (though good)being ignorant of the chemistry of paints

I am reposting my similar post on a different thread which brings out this issue

new member

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


corrected message


I am new and donot know the nuances of projectors and screens like you all do

I Have been reading about screens for a while on various threads and getting more and more confused
I would like some expert on the thread to help with a few suggestions :



I just got AE 9009 my first projector and painted a large screen with Behr silver screen paint on the wall of my Den which has a lot of light inspite of the sloghtly transluscent curtains (wich barely control the light from the many doors of the 275' den )the painter was a professional and did a good job
I cannot say if the projection is good or bad as I have nothing to compare with and no experience in this but the PQ is flat in day time on slightly sheltered wall with very little direct light with dynamic setting on the projector as clled forin the manual The night time projection looks much better

Can an expert tell me what has been decided by the panel on the best mix of materials for the best paint mixture for painting the screen for a partially lighted roomas dwscribed
as to a novice like me everything is very confusing when I read all the threads (I am sure some others have the same problem) I request a simple instruction with a mixture to use without all the elaborations on the thread so that I can paint a better screen to improve the picture quality in day time
thanks guys
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post #3 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 10:16 AM
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Try this for a simple alterative, all available easily.

1/4 cup delta pearl
1/4 cup delta silver metallic
1/4 cup minwax polyurethane satin(acrylic)
1/5 cup of UPW
1 tbsp folk art medium gray
1 tsp delta burnt umber (to remove blue push)

simple

Or if you already have some Silverscreen, then try

1/2 cup Silverscreen
1/4 minwax
1/4 cup pearl
medium gray to taste ;)

Will definately improve upon the plain Silverscreen.

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post #4 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 10:51 AM
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thanks
I have already painted SS twice on the Den wall would preffer a solution which is to paint over after sanding some of it off if required
Is there any suggestion from you or any one else who understands the behavior of these paints
and why is SS flat on pan 900 projection in slight day light even with dynamic option.however night time projection looks good on video
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post #5 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle
Try this for a simple alterative, all available easily.

1/4 cup delta pearl
1/4 cup delta silver metallic
1/4 cup minwax polyurethane satin(acrylic)
1/5 cup of UPW
1 tbsp folk art medium gray
1 tsp delta burnt umber (to remove blue push)

simple

Or if you already have some Silverscreen, then try

1/2 cup Silverscreen
1/4 minwax
1/4 cup pearl
medium gray to taste ;)

Will definately improve upon the plain Silverscreen.
Thanks, this is the type of recipe I was looking for in this thread :-)

I may give your second suggestion a try, maybe a bit of Baileys for the added flavour :p

What brand.number is the pearl and is minwax all thw same or a specific kind?
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post #6 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 12:39 PM
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The pearl is Delta ceramcoat, you can get it at wall mart, Michaels, ect.

The poly is Minwax acrylic polyurethane, satin finish from Home depot.

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post #7 of 73 Old 03-14-2006, 03:07 PM
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I appreciate the quick help

how much of the already painted screen should be sanded down to or there is no need to sand it
Is Pearl available at HD so that I can ask them to mix it with the others I still have 2 quarts of silver screen left or is it easy to mix the paints myself
Is it better to use a roller or spray paint I still read the heated discussions about the different paint solutions on the other threads
Will the new solution help the day-time projection

Is it better to have a black border and what paint to use for that and is 1/2"width ok

thanks
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post #8 of 73 Old 03-15-2006, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranbirsahni
I appreciate the quick help

Is it better to have a black border and what paint to use for that and is 1/2"width ok

thanks
Came here looking for new ideas for my looking for new ideas to try on my 18 month old wall that needs touching up. I think these ideas are worth a try.

My suggestions for a border is black velvet fabric. The light absorbtion for it is great. I guess how you do it is up to you. Not really that expensive either. I have a two inch border and I really feel it enhances the look of the picture.
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post #9 of 73 Old 03-15-2006, 02:40 PM
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thanks will try that fabric idea any other alternative ?
did you initially use silverscreen?
I am wating for the answers from biglyle to my last questions he has been very illuminating and helpful as an experienced fellow member

He is probably busy

Since I am a novice want to make sure I proceed cautiously
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post #10 of 73 Old 03-15-2006, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I just painted a 2" wide board flat black and put it around my SS screen. Works fine. All it really needs to do is give some contrast to the screen to make the edges defined. Also having the entire wall a dark color will help further to increase the preceived contrast.
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post #11 of 73 Old 03-15-2006, 04:58 PM
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thanks I will try to use your suggestions
can you help me with the other unanswered questions posed in my posts.

may be I could get two opinions from two different knowledgable members
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post #12 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 05:06 AM
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"how much of the already painted screen should be sanded down to or there is no need to sand it "

It all depends on how rough your current screen is. If its rough (orange peel texture) then sand it smooth with a real fine sandpaper. If its already smmoth just a fast light sand will be perfect.

"Is Pearl available at HD so that I can ask them to mix it with the others I still have 2 quarts of silver screen left or is it easy to mix the paints myself"

You can get Behr pearl at HD, but I would strongly recommend you go to WallMart and buy some Delta Ceramcoat pearl instead. You can find it in their craft department. You can also get the medium grey there. The delta paints are much easier to work with with and mix better than the behr versions.

"Is it better to use a roller or spray paint I still read the heated discussions about the different paint solutions on the other threads"

Spraying will always give a smoother finish. However if you are pretty good with a roller, your results can be great as well. My own screen is rolled and it looks perfect. Just make sure you buy a good roller, no thicker than 1/4 inch nap, I prefer 3/16 nap lint free wooster brand rollers. Just roll vertically at all times, even pressure, dont dry roll, and dont use to much paint either. Practice on some card board if you need too.

"Is it better to have a black border and what paint to use for that and is 1/2"width ok"

You can paint a border using flat balck paint but it will not give results any where near as good as a border made from black velvet or velveteen.

"Will the new solution help the day-time projection"

It depends on how dark you make the mix. The darker the grey, the better it will look in daylight or with lights on, but remember, a lighter mix will always look better in a dark room.
Let me know what kind of PJ you have, and will try to help you with a mix that should work pretty well in both conditions.

"The only reason you're still conscious is because I don't want to carry you" - Jack Bauer
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post #13 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 05:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I wouldn't think thre is a need to sand it off. Just add 2 coats of the new mix on top should be fine I would suspect.
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post #14 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 08:20 AM
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Thanks to all helpful and knowledgable members

I am responding to the mail of Biglyle

I am using a professional painter

the projector is panasonic 900

Is it essential to buy caliberation CD or I can use some true and tried settings by professionals members .
Why the factory does not set it properly like the TV's I have in the past
I bought HD mitsubishi 5-6 years ago and it still works perfect without any tinkering

I have read the caliberation settings instruction threads but find them confusing can you help suggest some settings after the added paint job
I have no filter
The wall is 10x6 and the room has ambient light in day time
I am trying to get dark curtains soon but the whloe room has large glass french doors and a couple of windows
did not have to do any thing other than light curtains for the TV to avoid reflection
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post #15 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 08:33 AM
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Getting a bit more back on topic. I just went to the Behr web page and went into the explore your colors tool they have and typed in silver screen. They let you explore that color by changing brightness and also hue and show you what color from there color charts bump up along side it from their product offering. They didn’t show the components that go into the silver screen mix. Maybe biglyle or some of the others that have used it a lot will know what pigments go in the white base. From what I can gather from the webpage is there is a very slight blue push in this paint.

What I found when I was doing my experimentation using Lowes American Traditions paints was similar all the grays had a color push in some direction ever so slight. The paint I found that worked with my projector room combination was called silver leaf and had a little burnt umber in its mix along with mostly black. I had them make it special substituting black for the burnt umber. Now what I don’t know and may never know is if the white base is pure white or does it have a push in it, but I’m assuming they try and start with as close to white as they can with a base to make all other colors from.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but to my way of thinking and I have a DLP I don’t know if that makes a difference. My projector is supposed to make so many million colors and in so many shades of gray etc. but I’m assuming they try and project them as true to where they fall on color spectrum as possible. And the job of the screen should not be to alter them just reflect or absorb light mostly reflect as the color is already correct leaving the projector.

The culprit in all this is ambient light and that light can come from the room or from the screen. The issue with gray screen is to strike a compromise on the black and dark end of the spectrum against the white and light end. As its easier for the eye to see a brightly lit gray as white than a dimly lit white as black along with the colors falling close to the dark and light ends. By doing this compromise and allowing more levels of darkness into the picture we increase the contrast we perceive.

So I see this simplified screen painting falling into two categories. (And these two are the approach I have been taking in studying this.)

First is shade of gray. The range is between white and black but the real world range is somewhere around the (silver leaf / silver screen) range. Goo has addressed this with 3 or 4 to pick from.

Second is screen gain. That has a wide range also. But in the real world hovers around the number 1 or unity.

Both of these factors are dependent on two things. First being the projector. And second for lack of a better word the room or light environment surrounding the screen. There is a third but its something that can not be calculated into any screen paint mix and that’s the individual color taste of the person viewing.

If you agree with me then the pallet of ingredients to use in making screen paint is lessened to this. White base latex, black pigment latex and some kind of clear polyurethane water based to adjust gain. You then need a surface to except these paints and a method to put them on in the right order, in the right mixtures with the right combination of ingredients in each coat.

I am beginning to think a deck of test cards could be made with 100 cards say 24x24 inches. Once a room and projector was selected and set up. You would have cards to view your projector against the cards would be made in 10 shades of gray and then 10 different gains. If your projector was then set to neutral settings and then possibly look at calibration setting from there. The only other things to be factored in would be bulb dimming with age and how you would deal with that and people that have 2 or more lighting levels in a room they use for projection. Both of these would require more compromise in screen design.

Sorry for the long winded post but wanted to get my thoughts on paper as to gray screens.


Bud

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post #16 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415
Getting a bit more back on topic. I just went to the Behr web page and went into the explore your colors tool they have and typed in silver screen. They let you explore that color by changing brightness and also hue and show you what color from there color charts bump up along side it from their product offering. They didn’t show the components that go into the silver screen mix. Maybe biglyle or some of the others that have used it a lot will know what pigments go in the white base. From what I can gather from the webpage is there is a very slight blue push in this paint.

(snip)

I am beginning to think a deck of test cards could be made with 100 cards say 24x24 inches. Once a room and projector was selected and set up. You would have cards to view your projector against the cards would be made in 10 shades of gray and then 10 different gains. If your projector was then set to neutral settings and then possibly look at calibration setting from there. The only other things to be factored in would be bulb dimming with age and how you would deal with that and people that have 2 or more lighting levels in a room they use for projection. Both of these would require more compromise in screen design.

Sorry for the long winded post but wanted to get my thoughts on paper as to gray screens.
Just a quick opinion about your "test cards" idea, but I've not found small samples to be very useful. If I read you right, you'll lay them out in gradient fashion and I think that'd make me go blind.

That's the idea of the (delayed) Shootout I've been working on. Larger samples of the simple DIY mixes. BigLyle, MM and others have done some large sample work recently.

I did a little work with SS compared to the DIY samples I had and it didn't hold up too well. It did indeed have the blue push you described. It might be a good component, or my idea was using it in a thinned translucent topcoat. I've been working on rehabbing the ticker and not so much on paint for the last six weeks, however.

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #17 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 01:18 PM
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Patrick

I have followed the shootout thread with interest even though never posting to it, as I’m sure many others have. I also want to wish you well on the rehab of the ticker and glad to see you following the threads while you mend.

The cards I suggested being 24x24 inches are what I would say a minimum size would be and I agree you cant look at too many at once. I like to view them against a gain 1 screen to compare. I didn’t make a set of 100 test cards I have about 10 I painted on a heavy poster board. And 3ft by 3ft would be better.

I also agree that unless you have a pretty high lumen projector you will want to look at a bit of a translucent top coat. I know in my case I just tested matte clear poly on a test screen as a top coat and it was way to much gain. But the effect was very apparent as to what it could do. The next step will be finding a mix ratio of poly and what the base is to get the desired gain.

Until I exhaust every option using just the three ingredients that’s the way I’m headed.

My projector is listed at 2000 lumens and that puts me in a different range than most of the DIY gang. One thing a bright projector does for the DIY screen builder is it lets you build lower gain screens that IMO are easier to paint. I would guess I’m viewing a .8 screen now and really I’m very happy with it as far as brightness and a quality I call “invisibleness†that’s when you cant tell where the surface of the screen is during viewing. When I did the failed top coat test with pure poly last week I knew right where the screen was like I had a sheet of glass over my screen.

What I’m hoping to get to is that fine line where I’m still invisible but colors are really popping. Then just back down from there. Unfortunately my mix might not be at all right for the next guy. That’s why instead of trying to make the perfect screen I’m more interested in making the perfect process to get to the perfect screen so to speak.


Bud

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post #18 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 05:55 PM
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Actually, I have a medium lumen projector (Infocus 4805) and I'm using LiquiScreen for now, which uses a white basecoat and white translucent topcoat. It seems like it's got lots of pearl or something reflective in it, as the topcoat is advertised as having more gain with more topcoats. So I wouldn't limit the idea to high lumen PJs.

Patrick

Wow, did the basement really take four years to build out?  It seems like fifteen minutes.... under water!

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post #19 of 73 Old 03-16-2006, 06:54 PM
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"Bud" you whipping a old horse to try to make it be a yound Stallion , and it lacks the hormones to get there. You have all the Lumens needed to do something special, so why you would want to limit yourself to any SS derivative is perplexing. There is not that much cost involved in a RS MaxxMud screen, and it will chew the leg off anything you can come up with using SS.

And of course, there is the next step, one that decidely favors 2000+ Lumen PJs.
Three guesses.? :p

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post #20 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 04:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan
"Bud" you whipping a old horse to try to make it be a yound Stallion , and it lacks the hormones to get there. You have all the Lumens needed to do something special, so why you would want to limit yourself to any SS derivative is perplexing. There is not that much cost involved in a RS MaxxMud screen, and it will chew the leg off anything you can come up with using SS.

And of course, there is the next step, one that decidely favors 2000+ Lumen PJs.
Three guesses.? :p
Sigh - Can you even stop your bragging? This is a thread for simple SS based mixes, please take the sales pitches elsewhere.
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post #21 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 05:16 AM
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No kidding, the RS MAxxx is no better than any mix using SS.

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post #22 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 06:45 AM
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My comments were specifically directed at bud16451. he has a Projector that can do wonders with the right DIY screen. I'm weighing in with my thoughts on the matter, and they are more valid that some of the opinions being expressed on here at present. And opinions they are, since they have almost none of them been put into actual practice.

That last comment of yours is a purely inane BigLyle, and has no basis at all in reality, plus it shows just how far you are willing to go just to disagree. It's really kinda just a sputter of nonsense and a self inflicted retraction of your own suggestions, since you yourself recommended tweaks earlier in this thread that involved using almost every single component in RS_MaxxMudd to improve SilverScreen. And you used all the components of RS_ in your other suggestion, adding Burnt Umber AND Folk Art Medium Grey to attempt to change RS_ into something you think is akin to SS, when it is only just a adulteration of RS_MaxxxMud, nothing more.

Silver Screen as it comes mixed produces dull images. Period. As a base to work with, it requires so much tinkering to get even close to other mixes in performance, it becomes something altogether different than Silver Screen. It's a good enough "make do" as it is for the , and tweaking part, if left to very minor efforts at lightening it's hue and putting a very little bit of reflectivity into it are perfectly acceptable. But in advocating it as a Base with which to try to make it into something it most decidedly not, you wind up making people who expect something that is simple to try have to consider extensive adaptations.

Better to direct them to BCortez'es thread, where ALL this has been discussed before, minor alterations have already been tried, results published, and determinations have been made. The "Tinkering" was purposefully kept at a minimum to help maintain the values that SS brings into the equation, and see if SS's faults could be mitigated enough to make a real difference, without adding too much to the complexity and expense of a really cheap DIY alternative.

My comments about RS_MaxxxMud are based on exactly the same experience both I and so very many others have had using RS_MaxxMud. This thread can only offer a rehash of already stated tweaks, and is obviously graduating into making Silver Screen something that is not SilverScreen. That in itself isn't such a bad thing, but all that is then being done is starting with a Base than needs considerable correction to something a decerning viewer will accept as watchable.

For "many" of those who have jumped on SS as a simple solution, and never compared SS imagery to something else, it can seem perfectly fine, even excellent in it's performance. For the "few" who have decerning eyes & taste, it' can seem deplorable. Even though the former majority has weighed in in favor of SS, it is primarily because it IS simple and cheap, not because it looks the best.

All this talk about it being comparable to RS_MaxxMudd, or any other "color correct" DIY mix for that matter, is just opportunistic bashing being done by those who simply want to bash, not express any real truths for people to learn from.

Schooner, don't accuse me of putting forth sales pitches about mixes that anybody can purchase the ingredients anywhere, and assemble themselves. If strongly recomending a course of DIY action that will make people get the best results they possibly can is the criteria for being labeled as a Salesperson or Promoter, then every DIY AVS poster expressing such viewpoints about his/her's favorite DIY application is guilty. That ain't so, so your statement has no merit.

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post #23 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 06:46 AM
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There are a few really good things coming into light (no pun intended) thru this thread. The first is that buying silver screen off the rack at HD is buying a paint that is not the truest gray you could ask for. Patrick kind of confirmed what I had thought about some tint in the brew to start with. I honestly looked at every color chip Lowes had anyplace close to white or gray and I have them all at home. There must be close to 80 of them and it didn’t take long to whittle them down to half a dozen. The only reason you would want a color push to my way of thinking would be if somehow the spectrum of white light was biased in the opposite direction. (like why we used to use blue flash bulbs indoors to cancel the yellow from incandescent lighting.) I don’t see these issues with projector lamps and if there is they already compensate in the projector for it.

For someone that just wants to buy something and get enjoying and could care less about the slightest bump in color the paints like silver screen and my silver leaf are just the ticket when white doesn’t get the job done.

If absolute perfection was rated at 100 and when I hooked my projector up and stapled a bed sheet up I was at 75 going to BOC got me to 80 messing with the calibrations got me to 85 making my screen and selecting the paint I used 3 coats of matte light gray color-free over canvas with nothing else and recalibrating I’m now at 95. I could be fine watching this image forever. I could do much more to improve my picture at this point by improving the signal I’m sending to the projector than anything paint could do.

So with my eyes being the final judge of screen performance I don’t think anything is going to “chew the legs off my screen†maybe nibble at the ankles a little. Now would my screen stand up to a bright ambient light performance test I have no idea. I understand that there is a need for screens that can perform in bright environments. And I’m glad people are working on such things. I don’t believe the answers to high performance screens will be found totally in the paint job though. Just as I don’t believe any one paint mix is going to be good for all projectors.

I like the idea of this thread being about a simple solution that the average amateur could paint a wall with something and get a result he will be happy with. If he wants to go on from that point and try and solve some complex problems of trying to sort ambient light out of projected light (akin to sorting fly dung out of pepper) then more power to him.

Lets get this one back on topic.


Bud

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post #24 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bud16415

For someone that just wants to buy something and get enjoying and could care less about the slightest bump in color the paints like silver screen and my silver leaf are just the ticket when white doesn’t get the job done.


Did I say anything but that?


If absolute perfection was rated at 100 and when I hooked my projector up and stapled a bed sheet up I was at 75 going to BOC got me to 80 messing with the calibrations got me to 85 making my screen and selecting the paint I used 3 coats of matte light gray color-free over canvas with nothing else and recalibrating I’m now at 95. I could be fine watching this image forever. I could do much more to improve my picture at this point by improving the signal I’m sending to the projector than anything paint could do.


I don't agree with the last aprt of your last sentence, but the first part is right on the money. It all works together. A poor job by either affects the other.



So with my eyes being the final judge of screen performance I don’t think anything is going to “chew the legs off my screen†maybe nibble at the ankles a little.


If you go to the small trouble to make up a RS_MaxxMud screen and compare the two (SS) directly, you'll need a Tournequet, not a Band Aid.



I like the idea of this thread being about a simple solution that the average amateur could paint a wall with something and get a result he will be happy with.

Lets get this one back on topic.
If keeping it simple is "On Topic", then the last few suggestions got way off .

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post #25 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 07:27 AM
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You know MM, I have done more than enough testing on my own to know just how full of crap you are.

"My comments about RS_MaxxxMud are based on exactly the same experience both I and so very many others have had using RS_MaxxMud."

Yes, and 99% of them have never compared it to anything else.

"Silver Screen as it comes mixed produces dull images. Period. As a base to work with, it requires so much tinkering to get even close to other mixes in performance, it becomes something altogether different than Silver Screen."

No one recommended using plain SS, and as a base it works perfectly fine with minimal tinkering.

"All this talk about it being comparable to RS_MaxxMudd, or any other "color correct" DIY mix for that matter, is just opportunistic bashing being done by those who simply want to bash, not express any real truths for people to learn from."

RS maxx is far from color correct, it suffers from horrible blue push as well. BF is nearly impossible to make accurate in terms of grey as well.

In another two weeks my time spend here will drop to almost nothing as I will be golfing on a daily basis. My golf schedule has me out of town a fair bit, so when I am gone you can pitch all you want. Untill then, I will question all the nonsense you post.

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post #26 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 08:23 AM
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MM
Actually the last Behr paint I stuck a brush into was when I was 15 and helped my dad paint a redwood sided house.

So I have an equal Silver screen lack of reference as I do an RS_MaxxMud reference. Being a relative newbie to this sight I do have to admit the paint names had me going for a while. And to the untrained surfer that lands here names like “silver screen†become more appealing than names containing “mud†but I have seen past that and have also looked at the photo evidence many have posted. I have never disparaged anyone’s efforts in trying new things or the screens they have come up with in my short stay here. From what I have seen of screen shots of your screens they look very impressive colors true and bright, blacks look great also. I have also read way to many posts pro and con about SS and the Mud paints and how you are simply making gray paint out of all the ingredients etc etc. I personally don’t think that is what you are doing and at some point I may want to try your mixes and see for myself as you offered. I would not be apposed to try anything that someone told me in good faith worked.

There are some pure laws of science that do apply to all of this. And light is one of the most predictable of all the forms of energy. What is not so predictable is how people perceive light and images. One interesting side note to this. My dog has never looked at the image on any TV I have ever owned but will sit for hours viewing the image on the screen following the action with her head. I have no idea what that means. But so far she hasn’t tried to jump into the screen so I’m not there yet I guess.

Biglyle
You seem to agree that SS has a blue push. I guess my question then is why do you buy it that way and then try and counteract the blue? When I saw that silver leaf had a burnt umber component in it I had them alter the mix substituting black pigment. All the paint counters will mix anything as long as you tell them how many shots of this and that to put in. I didn’t think I was doing anything special with making a black only based gray.
I am lead to wonder if silver screen is more than a paint name if they didn’t really try and make a paint that closely represented the original silver screens of the black and white days. The combination of movie film projector lights and acetates in the films gave the white image a yellow push.

Don’t forget bleach with bluing gets the yellow out.


Bud

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post #27 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 09:34 AM - Thread Starter
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And another thread destroyed by the ramblings of MM. Sigh. I give up.
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post #28 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 10:20 AM
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"You seem to agree that SS has a blue push. I guess my question then is why do you buy it that way and then try and counteract the blue?"

Because when you add any of the silver metallics you will end with a blue push that needs correcting anyways. The blue push is very simple to get rid of by simple adding raw umber.
Like 1 time said when he recommended it, the hard part is finding the right amount. Start with a little and keep adding till you get the neutral grey you are after.

" And another thread destroyed by the ramblings of MM."

what else is new

"sign, I give up"

thats his goal, the less questions he has to face the better.

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RS Maxx is another gray paint. Period. Nothing special about it. Just look at my screenies in teh CGII thread. Boring.

Meow.
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post #30 of 73 Old 03-17-2006, 05:00 PM
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Schooner2000
I don’t think the thread or the concept behind it is spoiled. But there are clearly at least two trains of thought in the DIY forum.

Schooner did congratulate biglyle on the 2 one-coat recipes he posted early on in the thread as the type of things he was looking to get documented here. The first one had 6 ingredients and the second just 3.

Can biglyle or someone tell me what the function of each ingredient does?
I understand the burnt umber counteracts the silver metallic in so much as the silver metallic ads some property to the mix. (Something I would like to understand) and in doing so it causes a bad effect the blue push. So the burnt umber in of itself is not desirable but is needed as a control.

What properties does each of these things add?
Delta pearl
Silver metallic
Polyurethane
UPW
Folk art medium gray
Silver screen

I understand some are base paints that are the heart of the mix. But what I’m trying to get at is if I can know the effect each of these cause on the finished screen maybe I can better understand all of this. Also if these items have a certain job they do I will then be able to say ok this screen of mine needs a touch more of this. I know now if I add more silver metallic I will have to add more burnt umber. But what about the rest and do they have interactions also?
-----------------------------------------------
For others that might have the intestinal fortitude to still be following this. This is how the ingredients in my gray world work. (I think) and if anyone wants to jump in and straighten me out please do.

Base --- matte white This is the bulk of the paint what the rest is built on

Tint---- black This is what lowers the reflectivity of the screen. It shifts everything down the scale towards black. It causes blacks to look darker because blacks have little light projected to them and any ambient light will overpower these dark areas and being less than white appear darker. It also lowers whites and light colors but because of the amount of light and the relative brightness my eyes still see it as white.

Polyurethane---- clear acrylic flat Added as a top coat it increases gain while darkening the gray paint below it slightly. (I’m still trying to get my hands around this concept) Light projected as a bright color passes thru the poly and strikes the base coat and returns back in a less diffused state. The color pops with the increased intensity. Dark colors remain dark and the effect of the gray helping to control the perception of ambient light coming back washing out the blacks is maintained and possibly improved because of how the poly darkens the gray base.

Because my testing shows even the flattest of poly can produce too high of a gain and hot spotting. Then the poly can be cut with something that has some opacity and the item of choice is the gray mix that was used as a base coat. By adding some percent of gray to the poly I’m told I can vary the gain improvement. (This weekends experiment.)

Questions I haven’t answered:
Will I get a different effect if I just adjust the base with poly and make it a one-coat system?
Will I get the same effect if I just buy my base to be tinted in a higher sheen?


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