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post #151 of 172 Old 09-20-2006, 01:56 PM
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Oh, I haven't left. Nor have I abandoned DIY either. But I am trying to reach out to more people thanjust Forum Members, while all the while still helping Members accomplish things independently on a variety of fronts. If being enterprising is not a criminal action, it involves onels own work, and it's done elseware than on the Forum, why the continual osterization?

Sport? Meaness? Petty personal motives? All perhaps.

I'll come around with some additional contributions, after I recoup Time, heath, complete some important work, and pay some bills left dangdling since my "Falling out"

I offered up my explination at the start. That didnlt satisfy obviously, and the thread took a different turn toward "comparisons". Now the former posts have been ignored, anf further calls for more explinations of BF are leading some to believe that no such effort has been made.

'Tain't sew.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #152 of 172 Old 09-20-2006, 03:22 PM
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MM just post a small portion of your patent application.Hopefully that should have some detail included on how the screen works. Has the patent process started yet ?




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post #153 of 172 Old 09-20-2006, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Still no patent or patent application that I can find. How about a number, MM?
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post #154 of 172 Old 09-26-2006, 05:21 AM
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You will never get it because you are probably spying for Stewart :p
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post #155 of 172 Old 09-26-2006, 06:11 AM
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......I must be a large Tree, and resist the shovin'.

I do understand the desire to peruse and digest accredited info from a Government Site, but there are reasons the "the Govmt" itself does not publish such info. Primarily because the initial review that determines the acceptance of the application, and the secondary review that allows for publication for examination and rebuttal are seperated by as much as 12 / 14 months.

That puts off the "unveiling" of the specific wording to approx. 1/31/07. It would be counterproductive to devulge specific wording, or even a close approximation thereof prior to it coming into the Public Domain.

Also, the time lag allows for adjustments, revisions, photographic & grapic examples, and additions to be added up to the point of the secondary review.

All of that is intended to be of both an assist and advantage to the filer. It does however costs big $$$ each time you add/alter anything. :(

My discriptions may be "Layman" almost to a fault, but they represent far more effort than any Attorney would find advisable in most cases wher there could be others out there with similar plans. And "Others" there are indeed, which is why we HAD to rush our application into existance. Timing counts for much, but not everything. But you do not want to be "second or third" by any means.

Alreadym a few concerns have produced items covered by our paperwork and and described via this Forum. 'Zat's OK. We'll address them when/if we aquire the right to do so.

Until then, as well as afterward, courteous and well intentioned requests for help, or close approximation of ingrediants won't go, have'nt gone unanswered. That's far more forebearence than anybody/anyone else in such a line of business affords their potential "Customers", and it is only coming because of our prior roots & comitments to the DIY community.

If we(...as in "I"...) make a few slips or errors along the way to finality, hopefully those with some degree of patience, understanding, and true interest won't begrudge those

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #156 of 172 Old 09-26-2006, 07:37 AM
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I don't know what you guys think, but MM should run for Govenor.
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post #157 of 172 Old 09-26-2006, 11:15 AM
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Having attained several patents myself I can attest to what MM states above. There is actually two ways to file one is with publication and one without. It looks as though he’s taken the route of filing without and in that case the patent and or the application will not show up on the USPTO.gov web site until issued. In ether case the patent is in effect from the day of filing and in all actuality it’s enforceable from the date of invention. But that gets sticky unless you keep a dated journal.

He’s also right its not easy or cheep to amend one once filed and if the examiner denies any claim you have one free chance to argue your case.

Something I warn people about and I don’t think I have before on this forum but these forums are both public and also time and date stamped.

Personally if I were to come upon a great invention I would be extremely reluctant to disclose much information if any on a public forum. The problem being people are throwing back and forth ideas on here and at some point someone could come along and say I gave this idea out freely and someone patented it after that date. In MM case he doesn’t have to worry because all I have ever seen is people tell him stuff wont work. :D

If he is truly getting patent protection for some ideas he’s had more power to him and I commend his efforts, having done this myself it is by no means a easy undertaking.

The good news is once the patent is granted its out there for everyone in the world to know about and improve upon. But if you want to use the idea you will have a long wait aprox 20 years unless you want to make a deal with the inventor.

Good luck MM with the project. :)


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post #158 of 172 Old 09-26-2006, 11:32 AM
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If nominated, I will not run.
If elected, I will not serve.

First the "Governator", now the "Illuminator" ? I don't think s Could the "Desiminator" be far behind?

Besides, I'm holding out for "Emperor"

Et Tú?

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post #159 of 172 Old 10-05-2006, 11:30 PM
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Still unexplained, there should be an X-File on this one
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post #160 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 03:49 AM
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Read the first posts, read the last few posts, and then go take a Sauna or "Float' and get mellow.

;)

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #161 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienArchbishop
Still unexplained, there should be an X-File on this one
I probable wont happen.

What is sinteresting is the following thread where it seems BFLF may not be as great as it was made out to be at least for some users in ambient light:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8529620

There are also a few threads that seem to feel LF itself may offer little.

I wonder if the commerical version is any better or more of the same. Since a comparison was never done it is hard to tell if BF is better than the other DIY options or is just talk. Maybe the makers will finally shed some light on the topic, pun intended...
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post #162 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:02 AM
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From the Patent Office Website FAQ:

Quote:
2. Is there any danger that the USPTO will give others information contained in my application while it is pending?

A. Most patent applications filed on or after November 29, 2000, will be published 18 months after the filing date of the application, or any earlier filing date relied upon under Title 35, United States Code. Otherwise, all patent applications are maintained in the strictest confidence until the patent is issued or the application is published. After the application has been published, however, a member of the public may request a copy of the application file. After the patent is issued, the Office file containing the application and all correspondence leading up to issuance of the patent is made available in the Files Information Unit for inspection by anyone, and copies of these files may be purchased from the Office.
That being said, there is no harm in disclosing the contents of the application. The filing protects the filer's property interests in the invention.

Affable Nitwit
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post #163 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:12 AM
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Hey Schooner,

My personal favorite is when it was compared to the DNP supernova:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...highlight=BFLF

This thread was supposed to follow-up on that one
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post #164 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:18 AM
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I doubt any insight is going to be shed on anything... like MM's last post... read the first and last post and 'get mellow'. Why this thread is even still open is beyond me.

Interestingly enough, for the fun of it I called GOO and just asked them for some specs and data and they sent it right out to me. Gain charts and spectral charts, some neat stuff... so asking for some data and comparisons isn't unreasonable.

Stepping back and trying to look at things from neutral ground, the makers of any product don't have to disclose how it was made, especially to a group that is capable of duplicating it! I know they use professional grade products now, but someone on here would definitely try to find a source for them, so in that respect I can understand not giving things out. The only issue I have is this topic should have died a long time ago. Nothing is really being served by this thread and it's been around long enough for anyone that wants to express their interest or dislike can.

I would hope that the guys do take all of this and learn from it in the sense that they are now commercial, and people buying a commercial product do want some data and spec sheets on things. Especially videophiles and tech geeks... specs are like bragging rights to some. Plus most people don't like sales pitches that say I can't tell you anything about it, but data is meaningless, it's all in how it looks....

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #165 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schooner2000
I probable wont happen.

What is sinteresting is the following thread where it seems BFLF may not be as great as it was made out to be at least for some users in ambient light:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8529620

There are also a few threads that seem to feel LF itself may offer little.

I wonder if the commerical version is any better or more of the same. Since a comparison was never done it is hard to tell if BF is better than the other DIY options or is just talk. Maybe the makers will finally shed some light on the topic, pun intended...
If done correctly with the latest public mix you will get superior results. The guy that was complaining had his screen done at the LA clinic which at that time was the introductry stages of BF (more than a year ago) It has since changed many times.

And to quote pb_maxxx:

Quote:
much has been improved. the screens have gotten lighter without the use of upw (which might be causing some of your washout) and of course brighter... and with that... increases in gain and contrast do make a difference.
Note that the original poster on that thread you mentioned couldn't be happier. Examining the comparison images it's pretty clear BF outshines them all. I know this for a very fact because I was the original poster..
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post #166 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym
Note that the original poster on that thread you mentioned couldn't be happier. Examining the comparison images it's pretty clear BF outshines them all. I know this for a very fact because I was the original poster..
If BF was so superior to the others then why did you take such HORRIBLE off axis comparison pictures? Maybe so people couldn't draw their own conclusion?

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post #167 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawguy



That being said, there is no harm in disclosing the contents of the application. The filing protects the filer's property interests in the invention.

.....except it does not prevent any other commercial concern from using such info to thier own advantage, in the hope of staving off or outlasting any legal efforts to combat such an intrusion.

........also, publishing such propriatary info does in fact weaken one's position if the Filing was initially done in a "closed" manner. One of the country's best patent lawyers' has related such to us, and we prefer to follow his advice.

You can all just cease asking for complete disclosure because it will not happen, and continued requests or demands, or even suggestions alluding to such are becoming both annoying and harrassing.

And BTW, the LA LF owner has recently acquired a new PJ far superior to his old Sony and is now satisfied completely with his screen. Hopefully soon he'll post his own missive to that effect.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"


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post #168 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mynym
If done correctly with the latest public mix you will get superior results. The guy that was complaining had his screen done at the LA clinic which at that time was the introductry stages of BF (more than a year ago) It has since changed many times.

And to quote pb_maxxx:



Note that the original poster on that thread you mentioned couldn't be happier. Examining the comparison images it's pretty clear BF outshines them all. I know this for a very fact because I was the original poster..
Mynym if I am not mistaken, there is no public mix anymore... the additive components were removed from the list a long time ago. Anything out there is old and not the last mix before it went commercial.

It is being looked at in the Deltamoon thread, but that is only a mix based on the principles of BF's performance and claims, it's not the same mix. I don't doubt you have a great screen, but claims that it is the best make people want data and comparisons. You may not have made those claims, but it is undeniable that they have been made. No data or comparisons are going to be given, MM pretty much said that several times, so should this thread even be open anymore?

It's all kind of a moot point now anyway.. the DIY mix isn't being supported anymore and people are moving on and working on the Delta mix and others.

Again I still don't see any useful purpose in this thread other than people taking jabs back and forth.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #169 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 06:33 AM
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The great thing about US Patent law is that in exchange for being given protection for your invention you freely give up all secrets to how it works. For years companies have kept trade secrets in a hope that no one will ever figure out how it’s done. The risk is they do and then you have nothing. On the other hand MM is right why give something up before you have to. The law says it gets published when its issued if you chose to file without publishing as was the case. The idea behind patents is it’s a contract between the inventor and the rest of the world and enforced by the government. And come Jan 1 2007 or whenever its issued we will all be able to read and view it. In the claims section of the patent we will find out what is really contained in the invention. The broader the claim the more protection you get. There are patents issued every day that have a vary narrow scope and really don’t give the owner much protection from someone making a slight change and getting around the patent. While others have wide reaching scope and are very hard to get around.

I find it hard to believe with all the people that did the DIY version no one remembers how it’s done or what went in it.

As for how well the concept works, at least with paint rolled on I suggest everyone read the thread tiddler did on the subject. He closely followed several suggestions I made as to different ways to experiment with the concepts of metallic and also light transmit ability thru layered paints. You can draw your own conclusions and you should post your offering over on that thread. It would be a much better venue to debate LF I think.


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post #170 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
And BTW, the LA LF owner has recently acquired a new PJ far superior to his old Sony and is now satisfied completely with his screen. Hopefully soon he'll post his own missive to that effect.
MM I think you meant his image......... He is NOW satisfied with his image since he bought a new projector . He was not satisfied with the old image on the screen you made for him and his projector at the time .

But it is good news that he is "Completely satisfied with his Screen" I bet he is somewhat satisfied with his new projector.

MM since the mix has changed and I wass going to some direct comparisons and shootouts but PB's buddy jumped in and was going to hold one until he disappeared.
I was wondering if you would be willing to showcase your new screens and send a sample of each to me or somebody else willing to do some THROUGH comparisons and possibly some semi shootouts. That would do a few things for you in my opinion, first it would show off how good your screens are compared to the competition, and shut up all the doubters .
Second it would prove the mix has changed and IMPROVED without giving away trade secrets .

Does this sound like a feasible plan ?

Bruce
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post #171 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan
.....And BTW, the LA LF owner has recently acquired a new PJ far superior to his old Sony and is now satisfied completely with his screen. Hopefully soon he'll post his own missive to that effect.
I'm not trying to start anything, I just am confused and am missing something... I was under the impression this mix performed well for anybody... why now are projector models being named as the reason for a complaint? Again that's not trying to start an argument, rather clear things up some. Either this is a great solution across the board for ambient light and a wide variety of projectors, or it is recommended for specific projectors or projector specs. If it's tailored to specific projectors and specs, that's fine with me but people should be aware of that and not have the impression it is the last screen they will ever need.

I plan on getting another projector probably one that does 1080p, but if I just bought a new projector and made a screen, I don't think I would like hearing it was my projector and not the screen and that I need to buy a new projector... I think I would be looking at different screens... see my logic behind saying something like that? People don't buy a screen and then shop for projectors, that's a little backwards is all.

Change of topic slightly... is the screen on the main XFS page what the new mix looks like? That thing looks like a black screen... have you guys come up with something new?!

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #172 of 172 Old 10-06-2006, 09:11 AM
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Thread closed. This is a DIY forum and talk of business does not belong here.
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