Laminate Screen Material and Testing! - Page 34 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: What are your screen requirements? (Pick as many as apply)
I want something that is easy to install. 423 18.52%
I want something as inexpensive as possible. 370 16.20%
I want something less than $100. 269 11.78%
I am willing to spend whatever amount is needed as long as it's the best. 68 2.98%
I want a simple one can painted screen option. 68 2.98%
I want an advanced paint mix screen option. 51 2.23%
I want a single material screen option. 289 12.65%
I want something durable. 270 11.82%
I want an ambient light screen. 244 10.68%
I have light control and want a white screen. 234 10.25%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2284. You may not vote on this poll

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post #991 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 06:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dja1ien View Post

Hopefully I can explain what I see without sounding like an idiot :

When light is bounced back to the viewer off the screen, the (very slight) texture causes light to bounce away from the screen in lots of random directions. What happens is that some of the light is directed directly back to the viewer's eyes, while some is directed away.

What I see when I look at the screen is lots of tiny "sparklies," or pinpoints of extreme brightness, which are especially noticable within the hotspot area since a larger percentage of light is being reflected toward the viewer within that region.

I remember seeing the same effect, but to a much lesser degree, with my old Da-Lite screen. The material had microscopic bits of glass or something (I'm not very technical, sorry!) all over the screen to help boost the gain, and it was noticable as a slight "sheen" (almost like looking through a slightly hazy window).

I've attached some shots showing the hotspotting from my viewing positions (both about 12 feet back). I posted about the hotspotting since the previous posters hadn't been using ceiling mounting I believe, and one was using a very small screen, so I wanted to let people know I was experiencing it with a pretty typical setup (100" screen, hd70 on eco mode, ceiling mounted). I watched a few more movies and this hotspot, from my viewing distance, has actually become bothersome even during normal viewing.

I can't capture an image showing the sparkles or texture I'm afraid, I can't get my cam to take steady enough shots, and as I said it only really becomes bothersome during movement (such as a pan).

Sorry for the downer guys, just trying to post my results.

I noticed the hotspotting in my pictures as well. However, it was virtually imperceptible to my naked eye. Are they pronounced on your FG to your eye?

If you plan on using it as a screen I'd try either sanding it or the Behr Flat Poly like MM suggested earlier.

mech
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post #992 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 06:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Mech that is a very true statement and even applies to commercial screens. Some grays are very muddy and even without a white reference screen the colors look off and whites don't look white. A good gray will never be as accurate in reproducing colors like a plain matte white screen will, but when viewed on it's own it doesn't jump out as being obviously off.

Test screens are beneficial and do show any major differences between two very different colored screens, but full screen shots do have some merit too. White is a good reference, but like I just said the color composition between white and gray are vastly different which can really impact how the gray is seen. A lot of times in a less than positive way too. What would be real good would be a white reference as a standard, and then a very light gray as well. Most people don't have the time or desire to setup that kind of extensive testing though.

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post #993 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 06:19 PM
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Im anxious to see samples with the Behr Flat Poly to see the difference.

Mech can you share what projector you're using?
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post #994 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 06:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIGANTOID View Post

Im anxious to see samples with the Behr Flat Poly to see the difference.

Mech can you share what projector you're using?

Mitsubishi hc3000u.

mech
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post #995 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 07:17 PM
 
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I'll post some more tomorrow. The forum seems to be a bit busy at the moment. The Parkland is in the bottom right corner.

mech
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post #996 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 08:07 PM
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Anyone else use a Designer White screen and get hottspotting or notice the texture problem?

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post #997 of 2849 Old 11-28-2006, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

Anyone else use a Designer White screen and get hottspotting or notice the texture problem?


I have a 92" screen with Designer White laminate and I don't have a hotspotting problem. My projector is a Mitsubishi HC3000 and the combination is fantastic. I had a BOC screen previously and the DW laminate is much better.
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post #998 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 07:45 AM
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Based on Ericglo's posts in the spring of '05, I put together a 97" DW screen in June of '05. I have "zero" discernible hot spotting and texture using a table mounted BENQ PE7700 in either economy or full lamp mode. Many critical people have viewed this setup with both high brightness and dark content and none have mentioned these problems.

Ericglo, thanks for pointing me in this direction! Couldn't be more pleased.

-Chuck
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post #999 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 09:08 AM
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Got my designer white today. Cant wait, gonna run to Lowes on lunch for some materials. I'm so giddy.
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post #1000 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 10:12 AM
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Nice shots! I really like that 2nd Car's one. The red looks very good and the whites in the eyes still look very white.
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post #1001 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 10:17 AM
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Nice pics Mech. Looks like you have some ambient light while taking the pics. Do the advantages of DW go away or lessen in a totally light controlled environment?

sds

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post #1002 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Mech is using Fashion Grey, Designer White is going to perform like any other white screen with light.

I found that we could actually have our room light on (60W floor lamp approximately 15 feet from the screen) and still watch a movie. It wasn't what I would call ideal though, but it was watchable. With light control DW does much better. I would say the situation is reversed from how you said it... with light DW loses it's advantages. During the afternoon with full sunlight pouring in, I thought it was unwatchable in my opinion, but at night it is great.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #1003 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 10:38 AM
 
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One more rambling... I would like to thank all the folks that found this 'screen material' and got the ball rolling. Thanks Clarence, Ericglo, wbassett, and any others.

Hey Bill, I finally got to see some FG screenies!

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post #1004 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 11:06 AM
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Excellent work mech! I hadn't noticed in the first pic, but looking at your 2nd set of CARS pic's you can really see the advantages of the grey screen in the pavement.

Man, going to be a tough call for me. I don't think the Do-able is available here in Dallas, but I have a WilsonArt distribution center. DW or FG....hummmm....
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post #1005 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 11:15 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post

DW or FG....hummmm....

You should be asking yourself "Ambient light or no ambient light".

It really boils down to whether or not you're going to use it as an exclusive movie area or if you're going to go watch TV on it. And if you have a wife like mine that prefers to be near me but reading or knitting or whatever instead of watching some shows... HTH

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post #1006 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 11:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

One more rambling... I would like to thank all the folks that found this 'screen material' and got the ball rolling. Thanks Clarence, Ericglo, wbassett, and any others.

Hey Bill, I finally got to see some FG screenies!

mech

Looks great!

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #1007 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

I would like to thank all the folks that found this 'screen material' and got the ball rolling. Thanks Clarence, Ericglo, wbassett, and any others.

I'd like to second that... I've had a HD70 projector on a 123" DW screen up for the last few weeks and am happy with the results. I'm not one to test a lot and will go with recommendations from others and am happy that I did. No hotspotting and a nice picture with HD and film.

Thanks

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post #1008 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 11:53 AM
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Mech-
Job well done! -j
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post #1009 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 12:19 PM
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Anyone found an HD or Lowes (or other) with in-stock Wilsonart product or samples in the Portland OR area??
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post #1010 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

You should be asking yourself "Ambient light or no ambient light".

It really boils down to whether or not you're going to use it as an exclusive movie area or if you're going to go watch TV on it. And if you have a wife like mine that prefers to be near me but reading or knitting or whatever instead of watching some shows... HTH

mech

So your saying the FG does better with ambient light?

I do have a dedicated room with total light control. I have heavy (but not black out) drapes on the entire wall with windows. I have two sets of rope lights on dimmers and I have my main track lighting on a lutron remote dimmers. So controlling the light is not an issue.

But like you sometime we have more light on then is idea for viewing. With lots of people around, we sometime raise the light level a bit so people can get up, move around, etc.

Hummmm....
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post #1011 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 01:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post

So your saying the FG does better with ambient light?

I do have a dedicated room with total light control. I have heavy (but not black out) drapes on the entire wall with windows. I have two sets of rope lights on dimmers and I have my main track lighting on a lutron remote dimmers. So controlling the light is not an issue.

But like you sometime we have more light on then is idea for viewing. With lots of people around, we sometime raise the light level a bit so people can get up, move around, etc.

Hummmm....

All I can really say is that FG is a leap up from Parkland in moderate ambient light. I can't say how DW performs but I think folks have said it's not the greatest in ambient light. Also when I say moderate ambient light, I'm talking about 4 cans, 75 watts each, two are 11 feet back (the ceilings 94 inches high) and the other two are 17 feet back. I have them on dimmers but I took all the shots with those four lights fully lit. I'd say around 70% of the time we have lights on. They had to be pretty dim for the Parkland.

As for "Hummmm....", I hear ya! That's all I seemed to do here for monthes! You'd make up your mind and then someone would come up with something new, So you'd plan on that and than tiddler and wbassett come along... more "Hummmm...."! You get the point. And of course you hate to go and spoend money on something and have it not work out. At least you can paint the laminates.

In my humble opinion, FG does a phenomenal job in ambient light!

mech
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post #1012 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 02:16 PM
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Hey Bill, I sent you a PM.

JON
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post #1013 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

More pics today... I went to manual mode in those last 7 posted last night and the rest of these. ISO 100 and then I adjusted the shutterspeed until I thought the camera took a picture that most accurately represented what I was seeing. Shutterspeed varied from 1 to 1/8 depending upon which photo.

Same as yesterday, parkland is bottom right corner - two differents memory




I think you can tell that Parkland makes for a good screen with very little ambient light. FG does it one better in my mind.

mech


It appears that the Parkland is a little washed out with ambient light.
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post #1014 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 03:24 PM
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So what kind of viewing angle limitations come with Designer White?

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post #1015 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 03:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

So what kind of viewing angle limitations come with Designer White?

rocko I think every question you have asked has been answered already.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #1016 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 04:08 PM
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rocko I think every question you have asked has been answered already.

Well I can't find the answer. I'm sure it took you longer to type that remark than it would have to answer the question. I'll take a link.

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post #1017 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

So what kind of viewing angle limitations come with Designer White?


I also searched this thread for "viewing angle" and "viewing cone" and could not come up with an answer. Maybe it would be a good bit of information for the OP to add to the first post?

Very exciting information here. I will be building a DW 106" (diagonal) rather than ordering an Elunevision screen. Should be about half the price.

Thank you very much to those that invested the time and money in proving this to be a viable screen option. Kudos. I look forward to seeing the continuation of research into the greys and other brands of white laminates.
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post #1018 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 05:23 PM
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The viewing angle on my 97" DW screen is essentially 180 degrees. I don't see any "visible" fall off at all. I'm about to go through a recalibration process (CalMAN) and will take some actual measurements to get some empirical/numerical data. But, for all practical purposes (IMHO), it's 180 degrees. Numerous people have commented on that versus what they have seen with typical rear projection TV's.

-Chuck
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post #1019 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShaunM View Post

I also searched this thread for "viewing angle" and "viewing cone" and could not come up with an answer. Maybe it would be a good bit of information for the OP to add to the first post?

Very exciting information here. I will be building a DW 106" (diagonal) rather than ordering an Elunevision screen. Should be about half the price.

Thank you very much to those that invested the time and money in proving this to be a viable screen option. Kudos. I look forward to seeing the continuation of research into the greys and other brands of white laminates.


It's not searchable since the words are in an image (one reason to do tables so they can be searched).

Here is the improtant link...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8380383
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post #1020 of 2849 Old 11-29-2006, 05:35 PM
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Re: the questions on the suitability of DW in ambient light situations.

I agree with what many have said about DW not working well in high ambient light situations. However, for high brightness content, e.g. typical sporting events, DW works very well in controlled ambient light environments. I have ceiling cans back from the screen (6-10 feet) that I can run at 50% and still have a VERY satisfactory picture. Even 100% is usable in a pinch.

Most movies, especially the darker ones that seem to be the current rage, will always do better in a fully light controlled room.

I looked at several of the Wilsonart grays (ever bought a sheet because it was cheap) and concluded for my purposes that DW was the best choice.

-Chuck
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