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post #361 of 1426 Old 09-12-2007, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

I should add, I'll be spraying the SF with a HVLP gun - not the Wagner though.

Also, if anyone can answer this for me, when I was calling around looking for the W & N pthalo green, the PG7 meant nothing to the clerk and he asked if I wanted the 'yellow' or 'blue' shade of W & N pthalo green? Someone throw me a bone!

mech

prof55 has it right. At Michaels it's in the section with the artist's paints (not where you get the Deltal, FolkArt, etc.)
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post #362 of 1426 Old 09-12-2007, 02:35 PM
 
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Thanks Garry and 12th!

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post #363 of 1426 Old 03-31-2008, 07:47 PM
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Should there be anyone interested in trying this Mix, I'll be glad to assist in any way I can.

It has been featured recently in a few comparison tests with Black Widow. As presented in the Formula within this post, it's still hold it's place in line as being among the most, if not the most effective contrast enhancing mix that also delivers wholly acceptable whites beyond what any Neutral Gray alone can offer.. (...lets call that a "IMO" as well as being substantiated by the experiences of many others as well...) Although it is quite a bit more complicated to assemble and mix than Black Widow, which offers quite a bit of Ambient Light watch-ability as well, the ends would seem to justify the means. Far FAR more have tried SF with excellent results than have failed in the attempt. By reviving this thread, I hope that both Mixes can still take divergent paths yet find common ground in some basic premises. The end result being exactly whatever can be construed as working the best. Or together? DIY is/has always been a "Stewpot" of ideas. But we all would be remiss if we disregarded "any" tasty recipe.

The Menu

Silver Fire Dark w/w-o additional High Gain properties
Silver Fire (criteria - adjustable via component content management)
Silver Fire Lite & Super Lite (Dedicated Dark Theaters w/High Contrast PJs)
Silver Fire HG (High Gain)

Silver Fire can be easily adjusted to most any viewing situation and/or Pj selection. In the lighter versions with less percentage of Silver Metallic / Pearlesence per volume, it can be rolled by anyone with proper technique. The Darker/High Gain versions require a Sprayed application to be most effective in disbursing the layers of reflective particles evenly and at every possible angle..

If anyone does want to go SF, please relate as much here and allow for the following of specified directions. In the past, the few who have tried without such and died might have realized their goals otherwise. I'm willing to put in the time for serious requests for help by DIY'ers wanting such.

So ask first. Otherwise if Your Mileage Varies, don't blame the Mechanic.

Consider this DIY application if you have one or more of the following demands:

You have definite "Ambient Light" issues.
You have a dark environment but your image needs a substantial CR boost.
You want a screen that increases Black levels without overly crushing whites and colors, even at the darkest possible sades of Gray.(.Dependent upon**)

**The darkest shades of SF require a minimum of 1600 Lumens. 2000 lumens allows for maximum Ambient Light performance.


Materials available at Michaels Arts & Crafts or most any Artist Supply or Hobby Store.

"SILVER FIRE"
* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'


(base components)
24 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 @Michaels
16 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603 @Michaels
8 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior.#4050) @ Home Depot
6 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels

(viscosity components)
24 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish @Michaels & Home Depot
10 oz. Distilled / Tap Water "NO" Filtered OK.

(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

****Changed to offset occasional over-mixing errors resulting in green / blue push. Although a very small drop of the amount of the "Grey's color depth results, more neutrality is achieved. These components are critical, and also have the smallest measurable portions. Unless one grossly undershoots the prescribed amounts, a small degree of overage to the stated amounts will only bring the mix back to it's original level, not "push' it into an adverse hue.

The "Found @ Michaels" ingredients might be, and probably are available at Hobby Lobby.

* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - L (Lite)**

** use 2 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

"SILVER FIRE HG" (High Gain)****

(base components)
36 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601
12 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603
8 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
7 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)

(viscosity components)
same as above

(color components)
same as above

**** use only .75oz of color components.


Folk Art -Champaign Gold Metallic- is the replacement for the Delta Pale Metallic Gold
PG7 (P)Thalo green is a "Primary Color" and does not have to be a "W&N" product. It virtually always comes in a "Tube" not a bottle, and is located in the Artists Acrylic "Tube Paint" Dept. in Artists Craft stores.



These "Old Girls" are still worth tossing out to be chewed on.
RS-MMMaxx (for moderate ambient light)
16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
10 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603
7 oz. UPW flat
3 oz. Folk Art (Plaid) Champagne Metallic
14 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
14 oz. distilled/tap water


RS-MMMaxx LL (for lower lumen PJ's, and for completely controlled lighting)
16 oz. Delta Pearl Metallic #02601
8 oz. Delta Silver Metallic #02603
10 oz. UPW flat
2 oz. Folk Art (Plaid) Champagne Metallic
14 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin finish
14 oz. distilled/tap water



There might be a few changes coming, but don't let that make anyone hesitate.

This DIY application, even in it's darkest hue, deserves strong consideration by anyone wanting spectacular increases in perceived contrast all while maintaining vibrant colors and very acceptable Whites.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #364 of 1426 Old 04-05-2008, 06:07 PM
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and happy

and I have used a slight variation of your mix and it works great.
being a chemist i had to modify it slightly

but his mixes are GREAT!!!!!!!
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post #365 of 1426 Old 05-04-2008, 06:49 PM
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So I'm going to be painting me a screen tomorrow or Tuesday, what exactly do I get if I follow the posted recipe? Is that plain old "Silver Fire?" Or Silver Fire ____? I'm extremely confused as to what differentiates all the mixes - I can see that you just modify the amount of colour components, but which colour components do you change? It can't be all the amounts to 3 ounces (or whatever the variant calls for), seeing as they obviously need to be kept in ratio, so do you just change the ones that are in red, or what?

Also, I don't see a Silver Fire Dark variant, is that just the regular Silver Fire or is there ANOTHER one?
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post #366 of 1426 Old 05-04-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsabo View Post

So I'm going to be painting me a screen tomorrow or Tuesday, what exactly do I get if I follow the posted recipe? Is that plain old "Silver Fire?" Or Silver Fire ____? I'm extremely confused as to what differentiates all the mixes - I can see that you just modify the amount of colour components, but which colour components do you change? It can't be all the amounts to 3 ounces (or whatever the variant calls for), seeing as they obviously need to be kept in ratio, so do you just change the ones that are in red, or what?

Nope. What it means is that if you want adjust the Basic SF Mix to accommodate lower Lumen PJs, you reduce the amount of "Mixed' Colorant" introduced to the Base Mix. The Color Components MUST remain at the same ratio or your not going to be happy very long.

Read again;

Silver Fire (Standard or Dark Hue)

* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - L (Lite)**

** use 2 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'


Quote:


Also, I don't see a Silver Fire Dark variant, is that just the regular Silver Fire or is there ANOTHER one?

You could increase the amount of SF Colorant Mix by another 1 oz to get a significantly darker hue of Gray, but you'd need plenty of Lumens (2500+) to offset the overall attenuation created by such a Dark Hued surface. Metallics can only help out so much, and when you go really dark, you HAVE to depend upon a PJ's light output being up to the task.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #367 of 1426 Old 05-07-2008, 05:36 PM
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[Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'
]MM,Is this mix recommended for epson 1080ub 159" screen? Light controlled room. I know everyone that is supposed to be in the know states that this screen size is too big for a 1600 lumen projector, but it sure looks good on unfinished drywall!
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post #368 of 1426 Old 05-07-2008, 07:33 PM
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Absewlewtlee it is.

(...besides...I've done 220" + screens with 700 lumen PJs. (w/ S-I-L-V-E-R HG). Me? I don't ever listen to the voices of "safe <...and thereby...> mundane reasoning".)

The very light Gray hue will augment the native CR of the 1080UB, as well as allow for less use of the extreme ends of the Aperture Control to assure deep blacks.

The Metallic Components come into play all the more readily with such a light hued SF Mix, therein increasing the Screen surface's Gain out to approx 1.4 (minimum).

Both the light Gray Hue that comes primarily from the Colorant's RGBY ratio, and the CR and Color enhancing (dark room version) attributes that are well known to anything with "Silver" in it, (SF has plenty!*) will all combine to give you "over the Top" performance with a great PJ like the 1080UB.

You can expect to be wowed.

*............it ain't called "Silver Fire" because it's "dim".

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #369 of 1426 Old 05-19-2008, 10:55 AM
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help please new to this confused on whats required
using sony vpl-hs20 in controlled lighting I assume I use silver fire lite?
is this right for color components for silver fire lite

60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold


2x 30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077

and what about below do the amounts change
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

thanks
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post #370 of 1426 Old 05-20-2008, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meck11 View Post

help please new to this confused on whats required
using sony vpl-hs20 in controlled lighting I assume I use silver fire lite?
is this right for color components for silver fire lite

60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold (...you'll probably have to swithch to Folk Art Champane Gold Metallic.)


2x 30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077 ( No "2x" here....30 ml only. Where did you get "2x"? )

and what about below do the amounts change
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

thanks

No, those amounts are as they should be.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #371 of 1426 Old 05-20-2008, 05:56 AM
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2oz for each so I assumed 60ml Delta Cardinal Red
what are you suggestions for sony vpl-hs20
thanks
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post #372 of 1426 Old 05-21-2008, 06:38 AM
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any thoughts for which mix for sony vpl-hs20 on 54x96
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post #373 of 1426 Old 07-18-2008, 07:22 AM
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................for all those who have PM'd recently.

And down below are the most current facts and mix ratios.

No, SF is not by nature a neutral when viewed specifically under D65k illumination. It cannot be, because the specific formulation that makes SF such an excellent ambient light performer is dependent upon ratios that don't initially combine to present a mix/hue that is by nature perfectly neutral. That being the case...yes, some small degree of PJ calibration is usually required. Something that must be stated and considered however is that when hit with the "color combined" light from a well balanced PJ's bulb, reported Blue shifts in "white content" are not apparent unless the very darkest hues of SF are employed. But even then the "PoP' and "Sizzle" not usually associated with a "dark hued" screen certainly are. Gamma and contrast adjustments handily take care of restoring whites to a level comparative to those found on "Matte white" screens. Perhaps not all the way toward achieving such, but far more in relation to any other DIY screen (...and most any MFG Screen...) with anything similar to it's (SF's) performance factor/Hue.

And even with the darkest hues....since those hues are intended for PJ's with uber-lumens....and very high ambient light conditions, one cannot (..or at least should not compare such performance with Screen applications that cannot deliver such performance at those levels. Silver Fire is the result of the correct mixing of several various components, and when one considers the end result, it must also be considered how very much time (3+ years) and effort has gone into the perfecting of such a high performance mix. It certainly is NOT a standard "Mfg. Base" supplemented with one additional component, so therein lies both it's advantages AND it's caveats

Everything has it's own nitch (...remember that there is no "Every-Screen"...) and one being comfortable with the level at which one has to work at is as important as the end results...both being closely tied together. Small incremental improvements are important to those who desire the very top end in performance....much less so for those interested in achieving something very nearly as good at minimal expense and time involved.

As one steps down the scale of Ambient Light performance, the edges of the lines between one DIY app and another often become less distinct.

That being said, simpler solutions have a important part to play in DIY, especially when they too offer splendid performance.

Various SF configurations

Silver Fire Dark w/w-o additional High Gain properties
Silver Fire (criteria - adjustable via component content management)
Silver Fire Lite & Super Lite (Dedicated Dark Theaters w/High Contrast PJs)
Silver Fire HG (High Gain)

Silver Fire can be easily adjusted to most any viewing situation and/or Pj selection. In the lighter versions with less percentage of Silver Metallic / Pearlesence per volume, it can be rolled by anyone with proper technique. The Darker/High Gain versions require a Sprayed application to be most effective in disbursing the layers of reflective particles evenly and at every possible angle..

If anyone does want to go SF, please relate as much here or via PM and allow for the following of specified directions. In the past, the few who have tried without such and died might have realized their goals otherwise. I'm willing to put in the time for serious requests for help by DIY'ers wanting such.

So ask first. Otherwise if Your Mileage Varies, don't blame the Mechanic.

Consider this DIY application if you have one or more of the following demands:

You have definite "Ambient Light" issues.
You have a dark environment but your image needs a substantial CR boost.
You want a screen that increases Black levels without overly crushing whites and colors, even at the darkest possible sades of Gray.(.Dependent upon**)

**The darkest shades of SF require a minimum of 1600 Lumens. 2000 lumens allows for maximum Ambient Light performance.


Materials available at Michaels Arts & Crafts or most any Artist Supply or Hobby Store.

"SILVER FIRE"
* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'


(base components)
24 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601 @Michaels
16 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603 @Michaels
8 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior.#4050) @ Home Depot
6 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels

(viscosity components)
24 oz. Minwax Polycrylic - Satin Finish @Michaels & Home Depot
10 oz. Distilled / Tap Water "NO" Filtered OK.

(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

****Changed to offset occasional over-mixing errors resulting in green / blue push. Although a very small drop of the amount of the "Grey's color depth results, more neutrality is achieved. These components are critical, and also have the smallest measurable portions. Unless one grossly undershoots the prescribed amounts, a small degree of overage to the stated amounts will only bring the mix back to it's original level, not "push' it into an adverse hue.

The "Found @ Michaels" ingredients might be, and probably are available at Hobby Lobby.

* use 3 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - L (Lite)**

** use 2 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'

-------------------------

"SILVER FIRE HG" (High Gain)****

(base components)
36 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601
12 oz. Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603
8 oz. Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
7 oz. Behr Interior UPW Flat #1050 (or Exterior #4050)

(viscosity components)
same as above

(color components)
same as above

**** use only .75oz of color components.


Folk Art -Champaign Gold Metallic- is the replacement for the Delta Pale Metallic Gold
PG7 (P)Thalo green is a "Primary Color" and does not have to be a "W&N" product. It virtually always comes in a "Tube" not a bottle, and is located in the Artists Acrylic "Tube Paint" Dept. in Artists Craft stores.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #374 of 1426 Old 07-19-2008, 07:49 AM
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My Panasonic AE2000U projector is in place, and I have purchased the Wagner Control Spray.

I am getting a 53x94 image on my wall so I am thinking that I want to spray a 5'x8' Acrylic Mirror for my screen.

My room has white walls (working on the girlfriend for darker color but I have not succeeded yet...) and I will have ambient sunlight from windows during the day while TV viewing.

My girlfriend watches TV while light is coming through the windows so I would like it to work well enough that she does not request a change to an LCD wall display. I never get home in time to watch TV with sunlight coming through the windows and I rarely watch TV anyway, preferring movies in a dark room.

What Paint mix will perform best for me? I am thinking a dark SilverFire mix....

Where can I get an Acrylic Mirror for a reasonable price in the 5'x8' size around New York City?
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post #375 of 1426 Old 08-31-2008, 05:26 PM
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Consume & enjoy

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #376 of 1426 Old 09-10-2008, 10:37 AM
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.........for those recently asking for the Formula to find even more information and testimonials.

Those of you who have recently completed SF screens, or have older examples but who have newer images to share, please do so on this, or any new related Thread.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #377 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 06:01 AM
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MM

Question for you on the formula

To get the different screens (Lite, Super light, high gain...etc), are you saying in the color components change ONLY the amount of the Red, Green and Blue only or is it everything that is in the "(color components)"needs to be changed?

Also where is the spray instructions?
Are they the same as regular S-I-L-V-E-R, where you spray KILZ2 then the multiple coats of SF.

Thank in advance
Randy
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post #378 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izayn View Post

MM

Question for you on the formula

To get the different screens (Lite, Super light, high gain...etc), are you saying in the color components change ONLY the amount of the Red, Green and Blue only or is it everything that is in the "(color components)"needs to be changed?

Hello Randy!

It is the amount of the Color Component "Mix" that varies, with the darkness of the hue of Gray becoming less as the amount of the Color Component Mix that is added to the Base/Viscosity Mixes is reduced.

The Base Mix contains the bulk of the Reflective elements, so as the degree of the shade of Gray lessens, more and more brightness is achieved. Only in the "High Gain" SF Mix does the amount of White Pearlescent / Silver Metallic change along with the lessened amount of Color Component.

Quote:


Also where is the spray instructions?
Are they the same as regular S-I-L-V-E-R, where you spray KILZ2 then the multiple coats of SF.

Thank in advance
Randy

You still spray/or roll Kilz-2 onto a raw but smooth surface, more to present a reflective base than to actually "Prime", because the SF paint itself is of a constitution that likens it to self-priming paints.

Even that step can be wholly avoided if the substrate being sprayed already possesses a bright white surface. Those with screens under 100" diagonal have the option of painting SF directly onto "Thrifty White Hardboard", a 3/16" x 4' x 8' sheet material made of Brown Hardboard (...like Peg Board...) that has a smooth, glossy White Vinyl coating.

When one does prime, the goal is to create a white surface, extremely smooth and slippery. Then using a HVLP Gun (...hopefully the Wagner Control Spray...) a first "Duster Coat" of SF is applied, much the same as is done with S-I-L-V-E-R. This creates a "Tack Base"....a semi-coarse surface that subsequent "slightly heavier" coatings can adhere to, eliminating (...or at least reducing...) the chance of any particular coat from sliding or running.

In the Hoary Old Age of MMud, longst before the rising of the Wagner CS, and the adulteration / dilution of such with water, most spray painted screen surfaces were usually quite coarse, much like a Medium Grit Sandpaper. The very nature of the texture, and how it "splattered" onto the surface, resulted in a pretty heavy coating that would sag or run if applied to heavily onto a smooth surface. One would presume that diluting such paints before spraying would create even more such worries, but nay, Verily and Forsooth...instead the finer "Dusted" mist, once applied and dried, has just the right amount of "Tack' to provide a foothold for the subsequent heavier coat.

None of us who are to be considered wise can achieve such wisdom but by the old adage of "Live & Learn", and by learning, prosper therein. So take the time to learn, (ie:PRACTICE) and with such wisdom comes the ability to plainly see the benefits of such labors.

There have been a few threads containing videos that showed the rate of spray/progress that is advisable, and those instructions still hold true.
  • 12' to 14' distance from Spray Tip to Surface
  • Start with 50% of Spray pattern overlapping the top edge of the screen surface
  • Moving from one side to the other, while maintaining the correct distance, one proceeds at 1.5' per second in a smooth, even pace.
  • Each continuing Row overlaps the preceding Row by 60%
  • For best results, allow each coat to dry completely to the touch before applying subsequent coat.

If you need further specific help, just post up. T'would be good to see some additional details of your project in print in any case, for as is so oft stated, "Provide details and Ask Questions first prior to embarking on The Quest lest thy stub thy Toe and stumble on the Hard Rock of Disappointment and Failure.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #379 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 11:44 AM
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Tell me if I am correct please

For example:
To do a silver fire - SL (superlite) the color components would be:

(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

CHANGES TO

(1 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
(1 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
1 (oz) Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
1 (oz) Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
1 (oz) Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels


And how many coats of SF....7?
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post #380 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izayn View Post

Tell me if I am correct please

For example:
To do a silver fire - SL (superlite) the color components would be:

(color components)
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
16 ml**** Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
12 ml**** Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels

CHANGES TO

(1 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
(1 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624 @Michaels
1 (oz) Delta Cardinal Red #02077 @Michaels
1 (oz) Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7) @Michaels
1 (oz) Delta Ultra Blue #02038 @Michaels


You'll have to please relate where those figures came from. If that info is "out there" and not simply your own error, that would distress me greatly.

My Goodness. If the mixing of SF was that easily done, what a blessing that would be indeed.

No. Those last amounts are wrong. The ones' on Top are correct.

Don't forget:

Silver Fire - SL (SuperLite)***

*** use 1 oz. of the 'color components' and add/mix it to the 'base & viscosity components'


Obviously you'll have quite a bit of the Color Component Mix left over (approx. 4 Oz ) so share....'Tis the Season for Giving.

Quote:


And how many coats of SF....7?

1 Duster and 3-4 Light Coats as described in my prior post.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #381 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 05:07 PM
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Okay I think I'm good...that was the part I was referring to in the original question.

Excuses me for my over thinking mind, but to me it read like when you so the "Superlite" you change all your numbers to 1 oz (same for the others... where you use 3 oz, and 2 oz)

Its only the "color components" (red green blue) of that section that you change but the rest stays as mentioned.
No fault of yours but when it says "color components" I thought you change all the weights not just the 3 colors in that section.

Also MM the example I used was me just trying to understand the instructions.




I have a little bit of time before I mix and paint. I'm still waiting for for the Wagner to show up then its off to the stores after wards for the ingredients.

I will probably be using the High Gain:
I Have a Optoma Hd80 in my living room with a 100" Elite Screens plain white screen. (was going to use that as my canvas to start but I might try either a mirror or a shinny plastic).

In my bedroom I will be doing the same with my In focus 4805. That has no screen but its my first projector and I want to give it love too.

Tell me is the HG mixture too much for the Optoma?

Also you know when you go into a best buy and look at the LCD playing blue ray and the movies look weird because of the picture is so clear. Does Silver Fire do that with a projector.......That is what I have been gunning for since day one!
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post #382 of 1426 Old 12-12-2008, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by izayn View Post


I have a little bit of time before I mix and paint. I'm still waiting for for the Wagner to show up then its off to the stores after wards for the ingredients.

I will probably be using the High Gain:
I Have a Optoma Hd80 in my living room with a 100" Elite Screens plain white screen. (was going to use that as my canvas to start but I might try either a mirror or a shinny plastic).

Well now izayn,

I'd suggest that you play to the strengths of both your "best choice" Substrate and your HD80.

I know not where you dwell, but in most areas in the US, Acrylic Mirrors in the 49" x 97" x 1/8" size average between $80-90.00 Cut one down to 49" x 87" and you have a 100" diagonal 16:9 Screen.

Well, the start of one...

At that size, and with the HD80's 1300 lumens / 10,000:1 CR (DLP), you have a little leeway to indulge in a slightly darker Mix. I'd suggest SF-Lite (2 Oz. Colorant) The end result will be greatly improved visual contrast, and that will enhance your perceived "Brightness' even more.

If it was any larger a screen size, then you would want to retreat to a SF-Super Lite or Hi-Gain. But if not, then the darker Mix combined with the absorbed light reclamation / re-fusion will easily compensate and adjust for any initial attenuation.

Quote:


In my bedroom I will be doing the same with my In focus 4805. That has no screen but its my first projector and I want to give it love too.

Tell me is the HG mixture too much for the Optoma?

For any Screen under 120" diagonal, I'd venture to say it would be.

Bedroom?
Paint the same size screen as above directly onto the Wall or onto a White Hardboard using SF-Hi-Gain. Mount the PJ as close as possible. The 4805 is a lower resolution 16:9 PJ, but at that size the image Kicks.

Quote:


Also you know when you go into a best buy and look at the LCD playing blue ray and the movies look weird because of the picture is so clear. Does Silver Fire do that with a projector.......That is what I have been gunning for since day one!

The lack of Image structure (visible pixelation) due to the 1080 x 1920 Progressively scanned image, and/or the absence of any "Screen Texture - Blemishes", along with exceptional Contrast imparts a depth and contour to such a image. Years back I spoke of such "Invisible Screens' that made people feel as if they could pitch forward into the screen. Especially bad/good were HD Football broadcasts on any such Screen over 60" high. Nothing new under the Sun there, but nowadays many have come to demand such, because they can now easily see that the PJ isn't the chief Culprit anymore.

The smoother the surface you start out with, and the more carefully you are about spraying, the more assured you can be of achieving a Screen that "disappears" and becomes instead a open Window.

With Zoom and Panning effects, Fade Outs, Transition Effects, and Titles.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #383 of 1426 Old 12-13-2008, 04:11 PM
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Last question before I get the sprayer and ingredients.

HD80/ Living room Screen Size 88" Diag (out of room to get the full 100")
Substrate Canvas - Mirror
SF Type/Coats - Lite/3-4 Coats
Kilz2 - No if using Acrylic Mirror


Sp4805 / Bed room

Substrate Canvas - Mirror Screen Size 47-50" Diag
SF Type/Coats - HG/3-4 Coats
Kilz2 - No if using Acrylic Mirror

Correct?

I'm in Chicago, Do you know where I can hunt down those Acrylic Mirrors at that size>

Thanks MM you've been a lot of help...I can't wait to get going

Thanks
Randy aka Izayn
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post #384 of 1426 Old 12-21-2008, 05:27 AM
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Hello everyone, I have a question regarding this mix.

I live in a small town in Nova Scotia. I don't have access to Delta brand paints. I have Folkart (plaid) and DecoArt though.

DecoArt is the most affordable, and I have looked at colour swatches and found the closest match to the RGB components possible. I have found excellent matches for the silver and gold colours, but nothing for the pearl (is it just metallic white?)

I was wondering if it would be best to not try silver fire given I don't have the exact same colours and go with a simpler non-RGB paint mix?

Also, If I have to go with a transparent white topcoat could I put a relfective silver basecoat to get a contrast boost? I have found RV paint which is 25% reflective using aluminum flakes. I could also purchase aluminum flakes from an auto body store and add it to a mix at a higher percentage than the 5-10 % listed in the RV paint.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphoenix16 View Post

Hello everyone, I have a question regarding this mix.

I live in a small town in Nova Scotia. I don't have access to Delta brand paints. I have Folkart (plaid) and DecoArt though.

I was wondering if it would be best to not try silver fire given I don't have the exact same colours and go with a simpler non-RGB paint mix?

Always its best to adhere to the formula known to work best/always. This is all the more true with a multi-component mix. Be advised though that simpler RGB mixes are exactly that....and being so will not do much more if anything than create a degree of Gray.

Quote:


Also, If I have to go with a transparent white topcoat could I put a reflective silver basecoat to get a contrast boost? I have found RV paint which is 25% reflective using aluminum flakes. I could also purchase aluminum flakes from an auto body store and add it to a mix at a higher percentage than the 5-10 % listed in the RV paint.

All that would be unnecessary guess work fraught with potential wastage, extra costs, and failure. Its all been worked out already, so what to do? Just PM me and I'll access for you the needed components that you cannot locate locally (at cost) and ship them to you (at cost) and then there will be no guesswork other than your own application skills.

And those we can work on together.

MMan

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #386 of 1426 Old 12-21-2008, 08:41 AM
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well, not surprising but still a bummer I'll mull over it for a few days. I was hoping to do a paint mix up for a Christmas gift so I might go with a simpler mix for that and get the RGB silver fire after the break. In any case I won't bother you until after the holidays

thanks mman
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post #387 of 1426 Old 12-22-2008, 05:30 PM
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Found this online. Might be of use to someone

http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/

Shows you closest matches of paint colours.
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post #388 of 1426 Old 12-22-2008, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphoenix16 View Post

Found this online. Might be of use to someone

http://colors.silicon-dragons.com/

Shows you closest matches of paint colours.

Very interesting and useful color calculator! Thanks!
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post #389 of 1426 Old 12-22-2008, 09:24 PM
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Your welcome. Sometimes is presents odd matches, not sure how the algorithm is set up. At the very least it shows you the RGB values (in hex) and the colours available for a brand and what they look like on your monitor.
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post #390 of 1426 Old 03-07-2009, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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..i've managed to get around to updating the silver fire mix.

i made a couple of minor changes overall...
the biggest change is getting away from the delta craft color components... without dramatically increasing the overall costs... and in turn increase the accuracy of the end results.

therefore i've settled on Liquitex Basics as the color components.
they are available in 2.5 oz. tubes... and costs about $3.50 each.

here's the link to updated mix on the first page of the thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...48#post8924648
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