Silver Fire mix - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1426 Old 09-19-2011, 12:29 PM
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We don't have a meynards around here so I have to go with the substitute
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post #1082 of 1426 Old 09-19-2011, 05:53 PM
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Hey guys I decided to go with SF. I'm looking at about a 120 inch screen with a 16.5 foot throw using an Epson 8350. I bought one of the no name paint sprayers so I'll be spraying directly onto the drywall. Low ambient light during the day, no light at night (In the basement).

What v. of SF should I use? Do I need to prime the area first? Also the base portion of the recipe, that's all in ounces right?

Thanks!



Edit: The walls in the room are tan and there's a white drop ceiling.
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post #1083 of 1426 Old 09-20-2011, 04:23 AM
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On modern masters web site pearl white is listed under "sheers". Is this the correct replacement. I have no idea if "sheers" is a finish or what.
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post #1084 of 1426 Old 09-20-2011, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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yes the 'sheers'
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post #1085 of 1426 Old 09-20-2011, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I agree, but bear in mind that the Rustoleum is a recent change.

Dutch Boy Pearl Luster is a viable substitution, but sometimes just as hard to locate.

I will do the urging to revise some of the Text on page 1 ASAP.


would this be a viable substitute?
http://www.wallacks.com/catalogue/ca...a3&table=craft
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post #1086 of 1426 Old 09-20-2011, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmadott View Post

would this be a viable substitute?
http://www.wallacks.com/catalogue/ca...a3&table=craft


No way can that be ascertained via viewing the info on the link.

When it comes to getting verified and consistent results, deviation from accepted, proven materials can carry great risks.

Common sense and practical thinking can win out though. Most attempts / trials we make involve using some degree of assumptive reasoning based on acquired knowledge and experience, and of course that's combined with intuitive ideas. Zero'ing in on a working solution doesn't often "just happen". But it can.

You could "assume" that if the Pearl was a "White" not a "Cream", and that if the Flakes are so finely ground that they are nigh impossible to spot, that it would work better than you might hope. But that would be in fact an assumption you'd make, and the choice to try it also a decision you'd have to make. Left to us, we are gonna tell you to use what's specified every time.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #1087 of 1426 Old 09-20-2011, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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i can tell you right off the bat... as i am well aware of that product...
the answer is a big fat NOOOOOO!!!!!

it contains huge mica flakes for it's so called dazzling effect...
a craft paint in every sense of the word.
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post #1088 of 1426 Old 09-21-2011, 06:33 AM
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I figured as much after doing some research last nigth on the Dutch Boy substitute paint.

Home Depot, Lowes and local Michaels don't carry an acrylic metallic pearl paint. I'm hoping to find luck with some of the smaller stores.

Randalls' (local store) carries the modern masters line, but not paints, only stains.

My assumption here is i'm looking for a quart of essentially acrylic interior wall paint with a metallic pearl finish to it.

The Dutch Boy website has technical specs which can be found here.

So it contains 59% water by volume, Mica, Titanium Dioxide and Chromium III.

As and FYI to some fellow Canadians, the cheapest source I've found for the liquitex products has been Curry's online. I'm at $62.04 after taxes and shipping for everything except Minwax and Rustoleum Metallic Accents – White Pearl.

Update....

question for pb_maxx or MM.
In some of the original versions of RSmaxxxmud Delta Ceramcoat Pearl #02601, Delta Ceramcoat Silver Metallic #02603 was mixed in roughtly a 2-1 ratio. Which has since been replaced with Rustoleum.

My goal is SF V2.5 3.0 - how many oz of delta should I mix as an alternative to rustoleum.

I've sourced both through stockade.ca for very reasonable prices (shipping included). Also worth noting that Randall's Bank street here in Ottawa carrys Modern Masters pearl white (me196) at $71 a quart before our 13% tax.
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post #1089 of 1426 Old 09-21-2011, 09:53 AM
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Hello,

Finally got all my ingredients for silverfire, spray gun and everything else I need to get my screen right.

Looking for some version input please:

Projector - Epson 8350
Throw - 12 feet
Screen - 100-110
Ceiling - White
Walls - Benjamin Moore crisp khaki
Screen wall background - Benjamin Moore Mississippi Mud (very dark brown)

I will be spraying this directly onto the wall which is very smooth and already primed.

Thanks to all the people that contribute to these forums.

-Billy
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post #1090 of 1426 Old 09-21-2011, 12:30 PM
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These may be very stupid questions, so bear with me

1. what is a duster coat?
2. Is the minwax polycrylic mixed with the base mixture? or is it applied as a protective coat over the painted surface?
3. if it is a protective coat, will any water based acrylic material do?

I am located in india. The Rustoleum paint is available here. The liquitex paints, my sister can carry with her from the US. But getting the polycrylic from US to india is impossible. What are my options?

i will be using a Mits HC 4000 for a 120" screen and throw distance of about 12' in a dedicated home theatre.
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post #1091 of 1426 Old 09-21-2011, 03:03 PM
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What version do I need for a HC5500 at 12'-13' for a 16:9 screen at 110" with no ambient light? Also what are other good options if I can't find Sintra here near Sioux City, IA?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...ulator-pro.htm
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post #1092 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justdhruv View Post

These may be very stupid questions, so bear with me

1. what is a duster coat?

A duster coat is the first couple coats sprayed onto the screen, typically this is a light "dusting" of the silver fire mix, a good sample of a dusting coat and how it should look can be found here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1361269
Quote:
Originally Posted by justdhruv View Post

2. Is the minwax polycrylic mixed with the base mixture? or is it applied as a protective coat over the painted surface?

As per the first post on this thread the Minwax polycrylic is the viscosity component and as per the first post in this thread "the 'base' & 'viscosity' components are to mixed separately from the 'colorant' components" a good step by step approach of mixing the paints is somewhere in this thread but here it is again
as per ERUIZ's instructions

1) mix the base and viscosity components all together in a gallon container.

2) once you've selected your measuring utensils of choice (i personally use the kitchen aid spoons...while others prefer cooking syringes) then your ready to get started mixing the colorant.

3) mix the colorants separately using two smaller containers/bowls. one container is for mixing the colorant and the other is for rinsing the mixing utensils. divide the 100ml of water... putting 50ml into each container.

4) after measuring out each color in the colorant container... thoroughly rinse out the measuring utensil in the rinsing container... and continue on with the next color pigment.

5) after you are done measuring each color pigment and thoroughly rinsing your utensils... then mix/combine the colorant bowl/container with the rinsing bowl/container and mix throughly. this will make a little over 6oz of colorant.

6) then depending of which hue of silver fire you've decide on... you add the correct ounces of colorant to the base/viscosity container and mix thoroughly with a squirrel cage mixer.

7) before you spray... you MUST strain your paint... to remove particles that will clog your spray gun and/or get sprayed as large clumps leaving screen artifacts that will bug you to no end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by justdhruv View Post

3. if it is a protective coat, will any water based acrylic material do?

not any component will do as detailed thruought this thread
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post #1093 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 08:32 AM
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Thanks a lot,

I would be very helpful for noobs like me if this step by step procedure can be added to the very first post. Because that is what every one will be referring to.
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post #1094 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbone00 View Post

A6) then depending of which hue of silver fire you've decide on... you add the correct ounces of colorant to the base/viscosity container and mix thoroughly with a squirrel cage mixer.

As per the first post on this thread, this does not appear to be true any more.

and . . .

What happened to HG?
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post #1095 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 02:23 PM
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Ya, I also want to know what happened to Silver Fire V2.5 HG, why was the formula has been deleted?
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post #1096 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

Ya, I also want to know what happened to Silver Fire V2.5 HG, why was the formula has been deleted?

If you had the previous Formula to reference, you'd note that the difference between the two centered around the different components used.

Now, v2.5 is standardized, as it made no sense not to have a higher gain if such did not exhibit any detrimental tendencies. In that sense, everything is to be considered "HG".
The whole object is to be able to increase the depth of Gray to augment black levels yet maintain the whites and colors as close to unity gain levels as possible.

Please, to confirm this you should also note on the provided "measuring graph" on the 1st page's Formula that as the darkness of the mix deepens, the amount of the newer reflective elements increase.
That should certainly strike any "less than casual" observer as something different.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1097 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
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as MM noted...

step 6 of the instructions still applies... ie silver fire v2.5 1.0 has never changed and it still uses 1.0oz of colorant per the table on page 1.
and silver fire v2.5 2.0 still uses 2.0oz of colorant...etc...etc...

also as MM noted...
anything less than v2.5 used a STATIC amount of pearl and silver regardless of whether it was 1.0 or 5.0.
that meant a 1.0 screen had a considerably higher gain than 5.0. requiring a pj with considerbly more fL's to light up a 5.0 and keep the white levels at/near that of a unity gain screen... hence the reason for the HG version.

therefore, we've decided to combine the two... and with every increasing grey hue... so too does the silver, pearl, and gold increase...
meaning that a silver fire v2.5 5.0 is much closer to the gain of a 1.0 screen.
that brings so many more projectors into play that can opt to use 4.0, 5.0, and even deeper hues of sf.

the current silver fire v2.5 3.0, 4.0, and 5.0 have more gain than all the previous HG screen versions... giving us an opportunity simplify the process.
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post #1098 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 03:48 PM
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ok, got it! Thanks MM & pb_maxxx
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post #1099 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 05:05 PM
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Hello MM/PB you guys have convinced me that this is the way to go for my setup. I've read thru the whole thread for the Silver Fire mix, so my only question is or request is "what version do you guys suggest I use. I was thinking 2.5/3.0. My throw is 16' screen size 140'' and projector is PT-AE4000U. A little light during the day coming thru (will hang curtains down the road) but at night I can control the lighting. I'm attaching some pics of my room. You guys are SAINTS for doing what you do in helping all of us A BIG THANK YOU! Forgive me if I forgot anything. Oh yeah I'm spraying purchased the Wagner HVLP for $66.00. Again thank you for your help.
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post #1100 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

ok, got it! Thanks MM & pb_maxxx

Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Lover View Post

Hello MM/PB you guys have convinced me that this is the way to go for my setup. I've read thru the whole thread for the Silver Fire mix, so my only question is or request is "what version do you guys suggest I use. I was thinking 2.5/3.0. My throw is 16' screen size 140'' and projector is PT-AE4000U. A little light during the day coming thru (will hang curtains down the road) but at night I can control the lighting. I'm attaching some pics of my room. You guys are SAINTS for doing what you do in helping all of us A BIG THANK YOU! Forgive me if I forgot anything. Oh yeah I'm spraying purchased the Wagner HVLP for $66.00. Again thank you for your help.

Ok, i thought I knew how to upload pictures but I guess I don't will figure it out and post.
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post #1101 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 05:14 PM
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Ok, i thought I knew how to upload pictures but I guess I don't will figure it out and post.

Ok, LETS TRY THIS AGAIN.
LL
LL
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post #1102 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 05:19 PM
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Ok, LETS TRY THIS AGAIN.

Another angle
LL
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post #1103 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Lover View Post

Hello MM/PB you guys have convinced me that this is the way to go for my setup. I've read thru the whole thread for the Silver Fire mix, so my only question is or request is "what version do you guys suggest I use. I was thinking 2.5/3.0. My throw is 16' screen size 140'' and projector is PT-AE4000U. A little light during the day coming thru (will hang curtains down the road) but at night I can control the lighting.Oh yeah I'm spraying purchased the Wagner HVLP for $66.00. Again thank you for your help.

A. I could suggest the 3.0 as well, although with the Panny's limited lumens you will need to run it on Normal lamp to maintain real dynamics at that size. That is compounded by the fact that the 2.35:1 content will rob you of 33% of your available lumens. Bearing that in mind, 2.0 would be "Mo Bedder" because it can easily handle the daytime 'light leakage', but can be switched to Low lamp for "Theater Dark" viewing and never miss a step.

B. Is that the "one Piece" Wagner CS or CS-DD unit? If so I'll want to review the differences between either of those Wagners, and the WAGNER CS-Plus / Graco 2900

Even being the Wagner advocate that I am, if asked, everyone asking will be directed to the Graco 2900 for $49.00 while they remain available.

Yeah....there's that big a difference.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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post #1104 of 1426 Old 09-22-2011, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

A. I could suggest the 3.0 as well, although with the Panny's limited lumens you will need to run it on Normal lamp to maintain real dynamics at that size. That is compounded by the fact that the 2.35:1 content will rob you of 33% of your available lumens. Bearing that in mind, 2.0 would be "Mo Bedder" because it can easily handle the daytime 'light leakage', but can be switched to Low lamp for "Theater Dark" viewing and never miss a step.

B. Is that the "one Piece" Wagner CS or CS-DD unit? If so I'll want to review the differences between either of those Wagners, and the WAGNER CS-Plus / Graco 2900

Even being the Wagner advocate that I am, if asked, everyone asking will be directed to the Graco 2900 for $49.00 while they remain available.

Yeah....there's that big a difference.

Thank you sir! 2.0 it is. heres the Wagner that I picked up.
LL
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post #1105 of 1426 Old 09-23-2011, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDef Lover View Post

Thank you sir! 2.0 it is. heres the Wagner that I picked up.

The Double Duty.

That one will work just fine. It's a bit heavy in the hand...but it does have the oomph to lay down a nice, wide vertical pattern when you have the Paint thinned properly (30% Water to existing undiluted Paint volume)

Mix the Paint/Water using a Squirrel Cage Mixer:

http://www.amazon.com/Homax-69011-1-.../dp/B000ELORFE

...... and Strain the diluted paint through a Nylon Sick-style filter and your good to go.

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post #1106 of 1426 Old 09-23-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

The Double Duty.

That one will work just fine. It's a bit heavy in the hand...but it does have the oomph to lay down a nice, wide vertical pattern when you have the Paint thinned properly (30% Water to existing undiluted Paint volume)

Mix the Paint/Water using a Squirrel Cage Mixer:

http://www.amazon.com/Homax-69011-1-.../dp/B000ELORFE

...... and Strain the diluted paint through a Nylon Sick-style filter and your good to go.

Good looking out MM, thanks for all of your help. Will proudly post some after shots when done. Ready to get this knocked out. I got a feeling that after this is done I might have to go back thru my collection all over again because this will be like getting a new rig.
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post #1107 of 1426 Old 09-23-2011, 07:17 PM
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What version do I need for a HC5500 at 12'-13' for a 16:9 screen at 110" with no ambient light? I will likely have it on the bulb saving mode, so should I be in the 2.0-3.0 range? Also what are other good options if I can't find Sintra here near Sioux City, IA?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...ulator-pro.htm

Thanks in advance!
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post #1108 of 1426 Old 09-24-2011, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rekd0514 View Post

What version do I need for a HC5500 at 12'-13' for a 16:9 screen at 110" with no ambient light? I will likely have it on the bulb saving mode, so should I be in the 2.0-3.0 range? Also what are other good options if I can't find Sintra here near Sioux City, IA?

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Mits...ulator-pro.htm

Thanks in advance!

Set the unit at 12'
Use SF v2.5 2.0

As for the Sintra, the closest Piedmont Plastics or Laird Plastics outlets are in Illinois. A Local Sign making Shop might have inventory...or access to it.

Can you consider using the Drywall surface? If not, constructing a Black Out Cloth Screen on a Frame might be your only other solution .

No..wait a minute. call a Local Plywood vendor and check to see if they stock or can or get you 5' x 10' x 1/2" MDF or Plywood. Often, Douglas Fir comes in those larger sizes.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"

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post #1109 of 1426 Old 09-24-2011, 09:46 AM
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Just when I was ready to complete this project, a few things came up and now I am unfortunately not going to be able to do it. Therefore, I am selling what I have (all the liquitex basics and the rustoleom paint as well as the gleem no name sprayer). All you will need to purchase seperately to make a Silver fire v2.5 is the minwax. $100 plus shipping sounds fair. Contact me via PM and we can work out the shipping costs. This way, you won't have to go to all the different local shops to try to find these colors and this can be a one stop shop. Everything is unopened, including the sprayer.
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post #1110 of 1426 Old 09-24-2011, 01:39 PM
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PM SCHMEM, If you havn't got a taker yet, consider it a done deal. Look for pm later. I'm driving.

To quote James T. Kirk;
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