Silver Fire mix - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 06:06 AM
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If using acrylic, you need to back that material with something that can accept the French Cleat. As long as you stay with using a 92" screen or less, a standard 4' x 8' piece of 1/4" Tempered Brown Hardboard cut to 2" larger than your screen material's perimeter will work great. You have then a 2" surrounding boarder to which you can attach the Trim of your choice. (...Well, you'll have 1.5" at the top and bottom anyway. Plenty enough to work with.

45" x 80" = 92' diagonal Cut board to 84" x 48"



Lastly, affixing 1/2 of your French Cleat to the top "backside" edge of the Brown Board both stiffens up the board as well as allows you to screw through the hardboard into the French Cleat. Just be sure to slightly drill out a "Countersink" depression to let the screw head go flush. Just hand pick a good straight piece of 1" x 8" and rip it in half at an even 45 degree angle. Get a 8' er and you'll have enough left over to use as spacer blocking along the bottom backside edge to prevent the bottom of the board from falling inward against the wall.




(ignore the front cleat....that was for a "Flip" application. )

If you go on to make a 110"er, you have to use an assembly consisting of a composite of Brown Hardboard.

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post #92 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 11:09 AM
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Here is a compressor I've found for $100 it's 2hp 8gal tank. Could this work?

I went and checked out the gun again.....



It's a bad pic, but all I had was my cell phone. It seems there are 6 holes on the 1.4 tip. Are these what you were talking about?



Another bad pic... here is the side of it.
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post #93 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 04:38 PM
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I second MMan's recommendation on French cleats. If they are strong enough to support 400lb kitchen cabinets, a 80lb screen is cake work.

In my case I used dual French cleats, top and bottom. The biggest challenge with the dual lateral French cleats was aligning them perfectly between what was reflected on the back of the screen to the wall. I wouldn't attempt dual cleats without a laser level. In retrospect I should have done it the way MMan explained it above.

Below are some pics of my Silver Fire screen mounted with the French Cleat method.

Dual French Cleats On Back of screen:



Dual French Cleats On Wall



SilverFire Screen mounted on French Cleats



SilverFire Completely mounted
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post #94 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post



Here is a compressor I've found for $100 it's 2hp 8gal tank. Could this work?

Barely. At a 30 psi setting on the Gun (...I use 40 psi) you'll empty that little tank in a hurry. The deciding factor is how many CFM "intake" your air pump can deliver. All you can do is test it by charging up the tank, hooking up the Gun (set at 30-40 psi) and squeezing the trigger. Time the space before the pump kick in, then the time it takes the Gun's regulator Pressure dial to fall bekow you Gun's pressure setting.


I went and checked out the gun again.....


It's a bad pic, but all I had was my cell phone. It seems there are 6 holes on the 1.4 tip. Are these what you were talking about?


Another bad pic... here is the side of it.

I'm familiar. I have the carcass of one, sans the needle, Fluid spring & Knob, and Needle Orifice Nozzle. My example spit and sputtered from day one, so I scavenged parts off it (...it was after all, pretty cheap) because they also fit on my Ingersoll Rand.

But others have had better experiences, so when your ready to squirt, we'll review your Mix choice, how thin it should be, how the Gun acts at the applicable pressure and feed settings, and most importantly of all, how much of and how long pressure is adequately supplied.

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post #95 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

I'm familiar. I have the carcass of one, sans the needle, Fluid spring & Knob, and Needle Orifice Nozzle. My example spit and sputtered from day one, so I scavenged parts off it (...it was after all, pretty cheap) because they also fit on my Ingersoll Rand.


You'll have to forgive me cause I don't really know the names of the part of the gun. I've done some spray painting in Aviation Maintenance school, but it might as well not even count. I don't really understand what you're saying up there.

From what I understand... that $13 gun isn't going to do it. If you could post a picture of what a good gun looks like or the kinds of things I should be looking for would be great!

One other thing.... should the gun be a gravity fed gun or should it just be a HVLP gun? Thanks
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post #96 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 05:48 PM
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Isn't Silver Fire basically the same as Black Flame?
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post #97 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 06:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet1 View Post

Isn't Silver Fire basically the same as Black Flame?

Ahhhh... maybe if I read a title once in awhile! Gonna delete that post.

I thought Silver Fire was a new pb_maxx mix.

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post #98 of 1426 Old 12-11-2006, 07:21 PM
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Do we need these same photos in every thread? The ones showing the french cleat are understandable, the other 2 serve no purpose what so ever in this thread.

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post #99 of 1426 Old 12-12-2006, 01:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

You'll have to forgive me cause I don't really know the names of the part of the gun. I've done some spray painting in Aviation Maintenance school, but it might as well not even count. I don't really understand what you're saying up there.

If you bought the Gun, it has a parts Blow-up and instructions.


From what I understand... that $13 gun isn't going to do it. If you could post a picture of what a good gun looks like or the kinds of things I should be looking for would be great!

Oh Bother! Ok...it took a little doing to whip up at 3:00 am, ya know.




Additional Notes:
*Some Guns have the "Pattern Control" knob on the Top rear of the Gun. Others stick the "Pressure control Knob there.

* Pay attention to the appearence of the Nozzle cap. It should be robust and look exactly as pictured or you'll have issues finding any replacement parts.

* Use a 1.4 to 1.5 mm needle/Nozzle assembly


One other thing.... should the gun be a gravity fed gun or should it just be a HVLP gun? Thanks

Gravity fed is the best for a beginner on a budget. Siphon fed HVLP Guns need all the more consistent pressure because they must suck up the paint via air going past a pick up orifice. (...most car painters use these...) Pressure feed Guns fill a canister with pressure and push it out. A Gravity Feed uses....well, gravity to let the paint fall down into the Fluid chamber where when the trigger is pressed, it flows out into a concentrated blast of air at the nozzle's end where it is atomized.


The best HVLP Gun in the World won't compensate for a lack of spraying technique or proper paint preparation (thinning). Once you get the paint of choice ready, use a practice piece of something to make the Gun's various adjustments, and to get used to the amount of paint being delivered, how fast you must go and at what distance from the surface must be maintained.

Go ahead and try the Gun you have first if you want. Most Gun's as pictured above will run between $50.00 to $100.00 Some however are under $40.00 You can PM me for Spraying Videos, and/or to get a Phone Number to call when your setting up your Gun and starting to practice and I'll be glad to help walk you through it. But ya gotta post back about your effort so others can benefit as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by biglyle View Post

Do we need these same photos in every thread? The ones showing the french cleat are understandable, the other 2 serve no purpose what so ever in this thread.

Yes they do. They show a working example of the DIY Mix referred in this thread as Silver Fire, the alter-ego of Black Flame, and how the maker of such accomplished hanging his screen using French Cleats, and what it looked like complete and hung in place, and as such are entirely relevant.

C'mon BL, I've posted those diagram examples of French Cleats elsewhere before as well, but linking back to those photos is a PITA as far as locating them again. MYNYM made a specific contribution to this Thread's content. Can we not accept it as that ?

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post #100 of 1426 Old 12-12-2006, 05:26 AM
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"Yes they do. They show a working example of the DIY Mix referred in this thread as Silver Fire, the alter-ego of Black Flame, and how the maker of such accomplished hanging his screen using French Cleats, and what it looked like complete and hung in place, and as such are entirely relevant."

Those picture are of a mix that is differant than the one posted in this thread. PB himself said the mix has changed. These photos are also available in at least 3 other threads.
The french cleats are fine, the other photos are irrelevant.

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post #101 of 1426 Old 12-12-2006, 01:45 PM
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MississippiMan thanks for all your work thus far.... That really helps me out! I haven't bought a gun yet, so now I know what to look for. I look forward to talking to you for further assistance.
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post #102 of 1426 Old 12-17-2006, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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havin' a little fun with a silver fire rear projection screen...

using a milky white translucent substrate similiar to #2067... i rolled (yes rolled) 3 light coats of silver fire using double the current amount of minwax & water.

many have and will continue to doubt whether light fusion can enhance the brightness of an image...
...if you are asking me, i would say that the potential is very real... but in my opinion, it's effectiveness and it's efficiency may not be best utilized in the current form of an acrylic mirror.

much has been speculated as to whether or not there was even an image left over to be reflected... with 3 lightly sprayed coats... let alone 3 rolled coats as i have done here.

certainly there is enough of an image left to make a viable rear projection screen.

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post #103 of 1426 Old 12-17-2006, 11:21 PM
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Fascinating!

Are you projecting onto the unpainted side?

Have you tried it both ways?
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post #104 of 1426 Old 12-17-2006, 11:49 PM - Thread Starter
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here i'm projecting on the painted side (the side i prefered). the unpainted side is the viewing side.
(which means you are seening the image after it has penetrated both the topcoat and an 1/8" of a semi-translucent white acrylic.

i definitely learned or re-affirmed some techniques i'll soon be incorporating in some future screen designs.

now if i was looking at doing a future rear projection screen... i'd make 2 changes here. the first would be to reduce/remove the metallics... simply because the mica flakes themselves are essentially opaque... which is a detriment when it comes rear projection.

the second would be the substrate itself. while i'm not sure whether i'd go as transparent as say... a clear polycarbonate... i'd certainly use a more transparent rigid substrate such as #2067... instead of the generic semi-transparent white one that i used here to simulate a #2067.
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post #105 of 1426 Old 12-18-2006, 10:01 AM
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(color components)*
60 ml (2 oz) Distilled / Tap Water
60 ml (2 oz) Delta Pale Metallic Gold #02624
30 ml Delta Cardinal Red #02077
17.5 ml Windsor & Newtwon "Galleria" - Pthalo Green (PG7)
12.5 ml Delta Ultra Blue #02038

So once you mix the color components up... then you mix 1, 2, or 3 ounces into the rest of the mix. If I were doing a super lite mix... wouldn't I have enough color components to do at least 4 batches? Or for that matter make a batch for each one (regular, lite, and superlite)?
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post #106 of 1426 Old 12-18-2006, 09:03 PM
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According to Delta's website Pthalo Green has been discontinued. I found the Winsor & Newton at Hobby Lobby in a 6.75 oz tube for $5.99 but if you watch their website you can usually find a 40% off any single item coupon.

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post #107 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 12:56 PM
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So I've been pricing substrates... It seems the best Prices I could find were for:
Sintra: 3mm thick, 4x8 sheet $32 @ a local plastic company
Acrylic Mirror: 1/8th thick, 4x8 sheet for $121 @ the same place where the Sintra is from /
and a 1/16 thick, 4x8 sheet for $104 @ Home Depot
Wilsonart DW: 4x8 sheet for $52.32 and a 5x8 sheet for $65.40

Do these seem like good prices? I was thinking the Sintra would be cheaper.... I only checked at plastic suppliers because I don't know where else to look.
When I called Home Depot and asked about the Wilsonart... I was told that they didn't have any of the DW in stock now, but that it would be $35-$40 if it was. It has been my understanding that Wisonart should cost more than Sintra, but they seem to be the same price to me. If anyone has some advice as to where I should look for Sintra or if it is known for some other name.... please let me know. Also... If an acrylic mirror were going to be used... MM, which thickness should be used 1/8th or 1/16th? Thanks
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post #108 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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nate,
yes, you could use 'color components' on another batch... rather than making a new batch of 'color components'.

with respect the substrate pricing... only the acrylic mirror prices you quoted seem a bit out of line... they are both about $25 higher than i'm familiar with.

the closer you can get to 1st surface mirror the better... so go with the 1/16" if you have a solid backing or frame to put it on.

steve,
michaels also runs weekly 40% off of a single item regular priced item as well.
michael sells the 2oz tubes for $2.99 at regular price.

tiddler,
it's hard for me to buy a quart of behr matte poly for $18. (after tax) when i get what i use for $30 a gallon. that's more than a quart of baby formula.
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post #109 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

nate,
with respect the substrate pricing... only the acrylic mirror prices you quoted seem a bit out of line... they are both about $25 higher than i'm familiar with.

the closer you can get to 1st surface mirror the better... so go with the 1/16" if you have a solid backing or frame to put it on.

tiddler,
it's hard for me to buy a quart of behr matte poly for $18. (after tax) when i get what i use for $30 a gallon. that's more than a quart of baby formula.

Can I ask where you normally look for the Acrylic mirrors?

I just bought a quart of the behr matte poly for this mix.... was I supposed to buy something different? I was hoping it came in a gallon, but alas it doesn't. I was thinking I'd get a whole gallon for $18. Is there something else we could use?
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post #110 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

I thought that the formula was changed to Behr Matte Poly instead of the Minwax Satin Polycrylic?

If so, has anyone tried the Behr Matte Poly in a metallic mix?

I had tried using the Behr Matte Poly and had problems but I was only adding very small amounts of the Folkart Metallic White Pearl to it as a top coat. Im just wondering if anyone has tried it in the proportions your mix calls for.

um... I guess that's "going" to make me the first.
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post #111 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 08:10 PM - Thread Starter
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nate,
i would not be too concerned... as the behr matte poly appears to be a quality product. i personally have used 4 different water based polys known for there good quality without much reservation and they all did the job they were intended to do.

tiddler,
i understand now why you had a question about using the behr poly in the mix. i've done exactly as you detailed and yes, using 5-20% base and 80-95% poly results in a mix that extremely hard (nearly impossible) to roll even with the minwax. while you have certainly shown that rolling a 100% poly as a topcoat is easily achievable... any mix that uses 75% or more poly should be SPRAYED for best results.
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post #112 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pb_maxxx View Post

tiddler,
i understand now why you had a question about using the behr poly in the mix. i've done exactly as you detailed and yes, using 5-20% base and 80-95% poly results in a mix that extremely hard (nearly impossible) to roll even with the minwax. while you have certainly shown that rolling a 100% poly as a topcoat is easily achievable... any mix that uses 75% or more poly should be rolled for best results.

Um.... Silver Fire can be sprayed, right? I mean, that's what I've been talking about this whole time.
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post #113 of 1426 Old 12-19-2006, 11:07 PM - Thread Starter
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nate358,
absolutely. and spraying is the preferred method. however, i'm also aware that 9 out 10 people will likely look to roll it... which i why i make sure to cover that base of folks as well.

if you look at the end of mm's S-I-L-V-E-R thread... due to the introduction of ambient light from a pool table area... he chose to switch to silver fire. i can tell you that mm chose to use behr's matte poly in that particular mix. he reported no ill effects from using behr instead of minwax... and i suspect that neither will you.
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post #114 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 07:00 AM - Thread Starter
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you are correct, i'll edit my earlier post... thanx.
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post #115 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 11:35 AM
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Ok so after haveing a hard time looking for acrylic mirrors.... I was thinking. What if we used Mylar instead!

These are by no means the cheapest that can be found that I know of (just did a quick search)

Mylar sheets

even thicker Mylar can be found Here

This stuff could either be taped/glued to a frame (if it can be streched some) or Taped/glued to sintra or some other light wieght board.

The only thing I don't know is if this stuff can be painted on.

Let me know you all think!
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post #116 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

Ok so after haveing a hard time looking for acrylic mirrors.... I was thinking. What if we used Mylar instead!

These are by no means the cheapest that can be found that I know of (just did a quick search)

Mylar sheets

even thicker Mylar can be found Here

This stuff could either be taped/glued to a frame (if it can be streched some) or Taped/glued to sintra or some other light wieght board.

The only thing I don't know is if this stuff can be painted on.

Let me know you all think!


Mylar can be painted quite easily. Search "mylar" for my resent post regarding this. The paint mix just needs to be transluscent enough.
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post #117 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 12:08 PM
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I've even found it to be 55 in. wide and 4 mil thick. This stuff has got to be able to work!
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post #118 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1Time View Post

Mylar can be painted quite easily. Search "mylar" for my resent post regarding this. The paint mix just needs to be transluscent enough.

I think the above pictures show that this is even after 3 coats!

check this website out.... here



Black & White Poly

Black & White poly is a plastic that is black on one side and white on the other. It can be used to cover up windows, make partitions and reflect light onto the plants. It is great for partitioning off spaces, as it is very tough, reflective, and can be handled on a daily basis without damage or tearing. The white side reflects 90% of all light. It is 6 mil thick and is 10 feet wide. It is sold either by the 100' roll, or by the foot.


And what about this stuff....

Ultreflect

With its specially designed grid pattern, Sunleaves Ultreflect maximizes reflectivity by redirecting lumens to plants in the indoor garden for optimal plant growth. Ultreflect can be affixed directly to walls and other surfaces, is virtually indestructible, and is easy to clean. Available in 25, 50, and 100 foot rolls.
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post #119 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 01:06 PM
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ok so the Ultreflect stuff won't work... but the Black & white poly would instead of BOC. And the stuff is CHEAP! A $1 a foot and it's 10ft wide. Lets see.. that would be $5 for a substrate!
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post #120 of 1426 Old 12-20-2006, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

I've even found it to be 55 in. wide and 4 mil thick. This stuff has got to be able to work!

As you can see in my thread about mylar, I used 54" tall, 2 mil thick mylar. I only rolled 1 coat. Anything additional coats of the mix I used would have defeated the purpose of using mylar. I got the smoothest coat I ever rolled; the mylar takes paint very well and slightly different than any other substrate than I've rolled. I'm not sure if there would be an advantage to using a thicker mylar. I know if/when I use it again, I will use 2 mil.
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