Silver Fire mix - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 1426 Old 01-01-2012, 04:51 PM - Thread Starter
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unless you are seeing/feeling a lot of texture... beyond the sight/feel of say 220 grit sandpaper... then soldier on with a couple more duster passes... with a 70-80% overlap.

the mmasters both darker & more refective... and it will sit/float on top even when sprayed with dusters... than anything else this side of an oil based silver metallic.

you'd probably want to add 2 to 3 oz... per half gallon... more upw 1850 then the standard mix.

didn't realize you were using the mmasters... or i'd have addressed via pm with you earlier... ie not wanting add a whole bunch of new variables to the the mix and thread.
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post #1352 of 1426 Old 01-01-2012, 10:07 PM
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Yeah, sorry. I should probably have been more clear. I've been planning this project for a couple months and listed my ingredients in a different thread long ago.

I will check the texture tomorrow and see how the 4th duster has dried. Should I find any kind of texture, do I then sand and start over, or how does that work? I realize I don't want to add too much, being that this is translucent paint. Was going to ask about the UPW... will definitely mix that in with what I have left, which is right around half a gallon.

Finally, could you perhaps elaborate on why it is better to spray while the screen hangs on the wall? My amateur instinct is to lay it flat and coat it that way, but this is probably due to my insane fear of runs. Does it pool heavier in spots and yet appear to sit evenly on the surface, or is it an issue with the gun not being designed for that type of application? I ask mainly for future reference.

I've a couple other questions, but will be PMing them, as to avoid the aforementioned cluttering/deviating the thread. Thanks a million.
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post #1353 of 1426 Old 01-01-2012, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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basically you don't spray horizontal because of overspray droplets, splitting, and paint drops from the paint container or spray tip. one drop in the center of the screen... and it's time to scramble for a fix. but if the screen is vertical... a drop/drip from the container or tips falls to the floor and not on the screen.

personally i'd lightly brush sand the screen with a fine 3M sanding sponge and then complete it with 3 dusters.
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post #1354 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 03:35 AM
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Another good reason to spray "vertically" is that unless your using a true Pressure Fed HVLP Rig (no one does, BTW...) a "Gravity Fed" or Siphon Gun (w/Paint Pot attached) won't work.

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post #1355 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 02:52 PM
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Well I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong. This most recent coat, like the last one, is nice and smooth and covers the entire screen, no texture or defects or anything. It has a nice shine under the lights and looks pretty. But it is dripping off the bottom of the frame. I imagine this clearly means I have too much water? There are also runs in the layer itself... you can't see them from straight on, and there is no buildup on the surface, but at an angle it reveals streaky waves and dripping patterns, as if the paint mixtures have separated and one is heavier than the other. I'm basically at a loss as to how to proceed. I'll wait for this coat to dry, but I don't imagine it will be any different than the last. The saving grace, I suppose, is that the surface is smooth? Should I just start over?
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post #1356 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Moore View Post

Well I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong. This most recent coat, like the last one, is nice and smooth and covers the entire screen, no texture or defects or anything. It has a nice shine under the lights and looks pretty. But it is dripping off the bottom of the frame. I imagine this clearly means I have too much water? There are also runs in the layer itself... you can't see them from straight on, and there is no buildup on the surface, but at an angle it reveals streaky waves and dripping patterns, as if the paint mixtures have separated and one is heavier than the other. I'm basically at a loss as to how to proceed. I'll wait for this coat to dry, but I don't imagine it will be any different than the last. The saving grace, I suppose, is that the surface is smooth? Should I just start over?


If the paint is still wet, take a damp cloth and wipe away the obvious runs.....quicker! I'll check back in a few minutes.

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post #1357 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 03:03 PM
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BTW...what it probably means is:

Your going too slow.

Your too close

......or both.

No way a properly applied Duster will run, even with a paint that is almost watery in nature. Speed is your friend, along with a 14" to 16" distance.


After you wipe the surface down, let it get completely dry and then we'll talk further about sanding and applying whatever fix is needed.

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post #1358 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 04:29 PM - Thread Starter
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the BOC is SOAKING up the paint and water... so as you work from top to bottom... you'll actually have to speed up... or what would seem like dusters on the first couple of passes become soak runs towards the middle and dripping runs at the bottom.

you still want the overlap but you'll need to increase your speed as work your way to the bottom.

also, with BOC... it's hard to determine a duster... because you don't thin enough is getting applied... so you go slower... because you're not seeing that 'wet' pass.

pull the trigger away from the screen, view the plume, and then trust that there's plenty of plenty coming out... and get on our horses.
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post #1359 of 1426 Old 01-02-2012, 07:16 PM
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I spoke w/Dennis and he has a plan now....and a purpose to carry on.

So what really happened? Since his BOC was already well primed, it was because of a cold-related lack of evaporation that was allowing the paint to "slide". I found out he was spray painting the water saturated Silver Fire in the low 50s ...as in degrees Fahrenheit.

But a good Wipe down, a Sanding, and a re-prime and he'll be cooking again. Next we hear will be a different, more happy tale.



..............or I'm leaving.

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post #1360 of 1426 Old 01-03-2012, 10:14 PM
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Yeah, I'm going to run circles around this screen this time. Embarrassed though I was for assuming that the paint possessed my Midwest indifference to the cold, it's probably best that I failed in this fashion. I think my technique is sound, and once I nail this Silver Fire I may just get cocky enough to try the other mixes or possibly perfect one of my own. Let's not get ahead of myself, though. I'll be bringing the screen back to my basement tomorrow, and will try to get some pictures of the surface before starting it over. Thanks again guys, your assistance is really impressive.
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post #1361 of 1426 Old 01-04-2012, 05:04 PM
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Just got back from work and hung the screen to see how it looks. Surprisingly, it looks pretty great. The 'slides' that have been mentioned do appear as some sort of graininess or fine texture on bright scenes, and obviously something has to be done about them, but I was really expecting it to sparkle and hot-spot and generally disappoint me. My roommates thought it looked amazing and argued for me to leave it as it is until I pointed out the flaws.

So, my question now: do I definitely have to re-prime still, or will another duster or two possibly cover up the defects? I'm inclined to just start over and really have a perfect screen, as I've put so much time into it already, but the other part of me is eager to see if it isn't just a couple sprays away as it is.

I imagine I know what the correct answer will be, but I'm going to go get some pictures to upload just in case.
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post #1362 of 1426 Old 01-04-2012, 06:22 PM
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Dennis,

You could try a couple of "coverage" coats, but do so knowing that the semi-translucent nature of the paint isn't as conducive to covering errors as it is providing an ideally made surface.

But 2-3 carefully applied coats can only help to cover it to some extent....certainly more than doing nothing at all. And who knows.....? Besides...unless you have an innordinate amout of paint left, you'd have to make more if starting over. So go ahead...use what'cha got for damage control

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post #1363 of 1426 Old 01-04-2012, 06:34 PM
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The issues are fairly magnified up close, and while these pictures aren't very sharp, maybe they'll give some insight into exactly what's going on. I think I'll just re-prime and go from there. All things considered, I'm pretty pleased. I had no idea what to expect when jumping in on this aside from the impressive shots others have posted here, and I feel like I'm well on the right track. You tell me.

Here is a macro shot of the screen surface under light, no projected image:


Closeup shot of surface with white light projected, note the washed 'slide' effect:


Screen with lights off, white light projected. Help me understand what I'm looking at here. Is this a hotspot, a viewing cone issue, uneven paint, or what. I see what appears to be a burnt polarizer in the middle... damn:


Screen with heavy ambient light just to the right, projected B&W image. Gotta say, it never looked this good with that light on:


Same screenshot, lights off. Again, never looked this good. Normally the walls and ceiling would be reflecting much more light:


Screen surface macro with projected image:


So yeah, the 'slide' or 'washout' or whatever you call it is fairly obnoxious when put under a white light microscope. It's gotta go. I feel like I'm close, though.
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post #1364 of 1426 Old 01-04-2012, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
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yep! slide indeed. metallic slide and bunch up.

from the ambient light shot... you could afford to go slightly more less reflective... because it's handling the light very well.

personally, i'd take a fine sanding sponge to the entire surfcace to cut down the peaks and valleys of the weave. what your hoping to do, is to get a uniformity between the slide area and the rest of the screen.

then determine how much paint you've got left. add 1.5 ounces of 1850 UPW per quart of left over mix. this will help to high what left of the slide area and also make your all white screenshot more uniform from end to end.
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post #1365 of 1426 Old 01-05-2012, 05:19 AM
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The cold temps allowed time for the Poly/water/metallics to separate, and the denser Ply/metallic to ooze. Not really what one would call a "Run" because it wasn't applied too thickly....just poor adheasion due to slow evaporation.

A very light sanding and recoat will improve things, and as PB mentioned, adding some UPW will effect more coverage and also bulk up your mix amount.

But if your groovin' on the degree of ambient light performance your getting now...and "IF" you have enough paint left, I'd use the paint "as is".

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post #1366 of 1426 Old 01-11-2012, 04:23 PM
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I have the gleem no name sprayer (graco) and four yards of black velvet (brand new) for sale. Please PM me and we can work out a deal.
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post #1367 of 1426 Old 01-13-2012, 12:44 AM
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I have the gleem no name sprayer (graco) and four yards of black velvet (brand new) for sale. Please PM me and we can work out a deal.

Will do upon my return to Mississippi from San Diego.

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post #1368 of 1426 Old 01-13-2012, 03:28 PM
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I am currently exploring my options with installing a screen for my old Epson EMP-TW200 (HD is only 720P) in my living room. Currently, I have been using a poorly painted satin white wall (rental house) that reveals every mistake in the applications of flat and semi-gloss paint from each previous tenant's attempt to hide mars (the flat spots are the worst eyesores). Previously, I ordered and had installed the furniture store's "top-of-the-line" Da-Lite electric drop-down screen that ended up looking like a glitter explosion with my uncalibrated, dynamic mode-set projector while utilizing the screen's viewing cone of what seemed only ~10deg which severely affected the ability to see across the entire screen, and left me happy with the wall, believing it was a better picture anyway. I happily left the Da-Lite for curbside pickers when I last moved.

In my living room, I have a N-facing 30sq' window 12' from the right side of the "screen" (i.e. wall) with doubled-up blackout curtains that allows some ambient light through at the forward-most edge at ~20deg angle away from parallel with the screen wall. I have a white ceiling and walls that love ambient lighting with two 60W lamps that are just about always on in the rear corners of the room producing a soft, warm orange glow shooting upwards towards the rear ceiling corners, and some lighting from stage left due to our computer room light left on with the door typically open (wife/kids). This is also at a near parallel angle. Only around 25% of our PJ use is without some type of ambient lighting (rear lighting, phones, e-readers, etc.). My projector is ceiling mounted 14' from the face of the wall above our couch, supposedly has 1300/500 Lumen when bulb is new, with only a 1000:1 CR.

After several weeks of light reading and attempting to follow each twist and turn of the AVS forums' soap operas, I decided I should attempt to pull off a 4x8' (cut to 16:9) DIY screen and am leaning towards SF/LF (4.0).

So far, I have acquired the Basics silver, 1050, Minwax, Nap-R, Pthalo-G, Ultramarine, Cad-Y (deep), metric spoons, strainer, gallon paint can, lots of plastic protectant, dual-chamber respirator, and a squirrel mixer. I also have a 4x8' Styrofoam insulation piece for practice that I have just gesso'd on the shiny side and will practice on.

I plan on buying the noname (Graco) for $50, 3.25" Spruce borders, ProtoStar, Rustoleum w/ crazy shipping costs, Basics gold, and a proper substrate.

I remember seeing posts claiming acrylic mirrors were bought for $80-130. Where can I find this? After S&H, I'm always over $200 for a 1/8" 4x8'. Apparently, HD and Lowes lack competitive prices here. In addition, my budget (aka wife) does not allow for single large purchases to show up in our checking, but doesn't really care nor notice multiples of <$100 purchases for hobby supplies/toys, etc, unless we are "saving" for something, which atm we are not If I cannot find it for under $200, will my PQ/perceived CR be noticeably reduced ordering DW from HD vice LF? (*gives loaded gun to whomever replies)

Do I need a roll of Proto 81" long (3.25" planned borders), or will it look great with inconspicuous slicing at the center of each border using a 41" roll? I believe any less and I won't be able to confidently finish each spruce border.

Lastly, what recipe for my project should I be using, any items I am missing, and what can I improve in my limited knowledge of theatre/kid's-playroom#3/tvdinner/living/pizza&movies room?
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post #1369 of 1426 Old 01-14-2012, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

A. I could suggest the 3.0 as well, although with the Panny's limited lumens you will need to run it on Normal lamp to maintain real dynamics at that size. That is compounded by the fact that the 2.35:1 content will rob you of 33% of your available lumens. Bearing that in mind, 2.0 would be "Mo Bedder" because it can easily handle the daytime 'light leakage', but can be switched to Low lamp for "Theater Dark" viewing and never miss a step.

B. Is that the "one Piece" Wagner CS or CS-DD unit? If so I'll want to review the differences between either of those Wagners, and the WAGNER CS-Plus / Graco 2900

Even being the Wagner advocate that I am, if asked, everyone asking will be directed to the Graco 2900 for $49.00 while they remain available.

Yeah....there's that big a difference.


Pb_Maxxx/MississippiMan I'm about to start spraying in the morning, I just wanted to confirm if you feel SF V2.5 2.0 is still the version I should use. The reason I ask is I changed the colors on my walls. Here are some pics
Projector: PT-AE4000U
Distance:16ft
HVLP Sprayer: Wagner Control Spray/Double Duty
Spraying on drywall.
AGAIN THANK YOU BOTH FOR YOUR HELP AND ADVICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LL
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post #1370 of 1426 Old 01-16-2012, 03:24 PM
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Getting ready to spray the curved scope screen that just got finished tonight. I am in retail and finally have had time to get back to my floating screen project. I am excited to tackle the next phase with Mr. Graco

I am going to brush up on some spraying video's and give Silver Fire 2.0 a shot.
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post #1371 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 07:09 AM
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Got done spraying and my mix did not quite turn out to be 2.0. if I want to lighten up the mix what do I add to achieve the desired results since my
measuring went by way of the beer can! The spraying went well with no runs or blobs so that was a relief. The Graco was easy to use having never used one before was point and shoot.

How long does it take for the paint to cure?
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post #1372 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 09:05 AM
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So can this be applied with a brush?
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post #1373 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg1292 View Post

Got done spraying and my mix did not quite turn out to be 2.0. if I want to lighten up the mix what do I add to achieve the desired results since my
measuring went by way of the beer can! The spraying went well with no runs or blobs so that was a relief. The Graco was easy to use having never used one before was point and shoot.

How long does it take for the paint to cure?

Looks to be more like a 3.0 version.

It's easy enough to darken a lighter version, but lightening up a darker version....not so much. It takes a dual coat of primer and application of a lighter mix to accomplish anything beyond a "make-do" revamp. That doesn't seem in keeping with this project.

But you might be surprised just how much gain your screen possesses. It would be prudent to give it a test drive before considering any revision.

Curing can take 3-4 weeks before the paint fully hardens due to the Poly/Acrylic mixture, but if you do decide to re-do, 24 hours of decent drying time is all that is required to begin again.

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post #1374 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 09:14 AM
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So can this be applied with a brush?

No. Nor with a Roller, as both methods of application distribute the metallics in too concentrated a form onto the surface.

RS-MaxxMudd LL can be rolled effectively however.

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post #1375 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 10:04 AM
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I am happy with the gain and screen just thought I find out what the process is to lighten the screen if necessary! I need to recalibrate the projector but thought the
screen had a dry time. I am able to run the RS2 on low lamp mode and the image pops and the blacks seem to be inky so all is good .Total cost for screen project 450.00 and 8 hours of time so thanks PB and MM for the help and support.

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post #1376 of 1426 Old 01-18-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Will do upon my return to Mississippi from San Diego.

MM, did you get back from San Diego. I haven't received a PM.
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post #1377 of 1426 Old 01-19-2012, 07:16 AM
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greg1292, that is a sweet screen. Nicely done!! You need to post more pictures.

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post #1378 of 1426 Old 01-19-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by auge.dog View Post

greg1292, that is a sweet screen. Nicely done!! You need to post more pictures.

Thanks I am very happy with the results and the picture seems to get
better as the paint dries (sharper). Blacks are insane on the RS2 and
for the first time in my setup have crt blacks. Cool paint indeed. I only
used 1 container of paint in the graco and the screen is as smooth as a newborns baby **** I am getting the Geometry correct on the screen
and have painted the front wall black last night so it is a work in progress.
What is interesting is the text on the screen is straight I know the screen
shot is not that great but gives you the idea.

For the keeping of the thread I will update pictures to the previous 2 posts from me to keep the thread on track. It is real hard to take a
good screen shot because I sit 11 ft back from 10 ft scope screen.

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post #1379 of 1426 Old 01-19-2012, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken2011 View Post

MM, did you get back from San Diego. I haven't received a PM.

Yeah......, I'm Bach.

.....or is it Beethoven?

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post #1380 of 1426 Old 01-20-2012, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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What is interesting is the text on the screen is straight

from the construction pics.. at first i thought to myself... i wouldn't have put that much of curve in it.

but from the screenshots...
i gotta agree. that looks great.
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