Building electric roll down screen, here's some parts - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 252 Old 02-07-2007, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Nilk29 View Post

Steve, Bulldogger

You might want to give a shot at these LED lights from Ikea. I mounted 2 sets in series on front portion of my EP screen. These can be linked in a series making it a cool light strip like neon.

Do you have any photos? I can't visualize how you mount these lights on a roll down screen.
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post #92 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Steve, looks like I am going to use this to control my motor http://store.cousinsvideo.com/82436.html It is a dual motor control. I want to get my screen up and see if it is going to work OK without the need to be tensioned first. Then I need to set-up a separate roller for the masking. The remote on this unit controls the screen motor if you push it once. Push it twice on either the up or down button and it lowers or raises the masking. I still have not decided if I want to mask the top to go from a 16:9 screen to a 2:35 screen. My second option is to just build a second screen that would lower behind the first for the different aspect ratios. I could then use the limit switch to have each screen lower to the correct position. Still trying to work this out. Think I need to actually get the first screen up and working before I figure out the masking.

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post #93 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 12:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Looks like guy I bought my motor from has a new website, http://home.earthlink.net/~shuttermotor/id13.html Spoke with him and he says he can supply low cost motors. Ebay seems to offer some control options. Single motor remote controls for about 75.00. Do a seach for Dalite and the motor controls will come up.

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post #94 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 01:26 PM
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Hi Bulldogger,

I saw that you also posted over at the SMX forum on the electric screen thread. Now that it seems that Sandman has put that on the back burner for now, I'm very interested in seeing how your set up works out for you. So far, it looks quite promising.

Looking forward to updates.

Andy
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post #95 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 03:27 PM
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How about item 3028 in monoprice website?

It's cheap but I don't know if it could be compatible with somfy or torquemaster motors.

Anyone?
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post #96 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 04:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coastalb55 View Post

Hi Bulldogger,

I saw that you also posted over at the SMX forum on the electric screen thread. Now that it seems that Sandman has put that on the back burner for now, I'm very interested in seeing how your set up works out for you. So far, it looks quite promising.

Looking forward to updates.

Andy

Having the Somfy parts to work with really simplifies things. It is a matter of picking the right parts and installing them with the right pipe. Somfy of course is accustomed to recommending their parts and can do so over the phone. Hopefully, by the time I am finished anyone can make an electric roll down screen. If you check, you may find that electric roll down screens are a small percentage of the market which might not lead a company to be highly motivated to develope one right away . My screen is likely going to be 120 wide or 116 at the min. Shipping a screen this large has to go freight. That's expensive. Screens with masking are even more expensive. When I began to look at shipping cost, and parts cost alone, it became clear that an electric screen as good as Sandman is developing might not be exactly in high demand by the DIY crowd that he attracts.Parts alone are going to approach 1000.00 to 1500 depending on motor with screen material. Currently marketed commericial screen are mulitples of this still. For Sandman to market a screen is going to cost even more to make it profitable. "Doing the math," I can figure why he might not be in a rush considering most of the guys he sells to are looking for under 1k screen solutions. This is just,"me talking." I do not know Sandman's exact plans. Hence, my thread and mainly because I want a new screen for my JVC RS1 sooner rather than latter. Sandman's a cool guy and I do not intend to take any sales from him as I wish him well. My sentiments are that anyone willing to build a screen would not be willing to pay what Sandman will have to charge to make it worth his while. Others may be able to find ways to make an effective screen and save some money over the route I am taking. My intentions are to have a good working screen and I am not so concerned with saving as much money as possible. I am certainly open to any suggestions.

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post #97 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonX View Post

How about item 3028 in monoprice website?

It's cheap but I don't know if it could be compatible with somfy or torquemaster motors.

Anyone?

I think that's just the remote control. The actual control hardware is likely built into the monoprice screens so it would not work with my motor. I am sure their are cheaper solutions for remote control than Dalite's. HTIQ can do a dual motor control for a 12volt dc motor for only 110.00. He is the guy with the already engineered masking systems as well. My motor is 110 volt AC so his control would not work with my motor. I do not know what the Somfy motors are?

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post #98 of 252 Old 02-08-2007, 05:52 PM
 
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Bulldogger-

Just curious, but what kinda $$ will you have wrapped up with your retractable when everything is said and done?

Don
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post #99 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by camarillo_cinema View Post

Bulldogger-

Just curious, but what kinda $$ will you have wrapped up with your retractable when everything is said and done?

Don

510.00 spent so far. Need motor control and screen material. That could be 250.00 or 750.00 additional depending on which way I go. Not sure yet.

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post #100 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 11:08 AM
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Bulldogger,

I am curious know about how you are going to attach SMX to the pipe so that you always have a linear retract ability.

Steve,

Still working on getting photos.

Thanks
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post #101 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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I am going to attach the screen material to the pipe with double sided tape. Waiting for samples now from http://www.tapes2.com/industrial.htm Spoke with person there who says they have a thin tape that will have no problem holding my screen material and 11 pound lower bar. I have a screen now and that is how the material is attached to the roller.

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post #102 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 03:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

510.00 spent so far. Need motor control and screen material. That could be 250.00 or 750.00 additional depending on which way I go. Not sure yet.

Mmm- seems like alot. BTW, I attached my SmX using clear duct tape. Works like a charm.

Don
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post #103 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarillo_cinema View Post

Mmm- seems like alot. BTW, I attached my SmX using clear duct tape. Works like a charm.

Don

If you can tell me a cheaper way to build a screen without waves, I'm all for it. I already have a DIy screen with waves that cost couple of hundred for remote controlled motorized roller. I think your screen has waves too? Different target here. Waves are not something I am willing to accept. If I can not build a screen without waves, I'll just trash the whole thing. Waves are out. I absolutely hate the effect they cause when the scene pans. Sure you can build a screen cheaper, with wood and duct tape or a cordless screw driver and closet rod even but can you do it without waves? Your duct tape may not hold if you had a heavier weight at the end of your screen which might get rid of the waves? So that's why I could not use duct tape. I do not believe the adhesive strong enough to hold roughly 25 pounds with material and my aluminum rod. One reason for sure that 99% of the DIy electric screens have waves are because of lower cost methods used. The pipes are not stiff enough and deflecting and casusing V-waves. The material and method used to weight the screen is not heavy enought to keep the material tight. The weight can not be any heavier because the pipe would flex even more and the motor used is not strong enough to pull a heavy weight up. Commerial screens avoid these problems with stiffer rollers and stronger motors. Those screens have no compromiese. That's what I want. NO compromiese. Sorry for the rant. I just am not seeing what I consider many successful, meaning no waves, electric DIY screens. So pardon my rant but what is a lot is the amount of time I will waste to build a screen with waves which is totally unacceptable. There, got it off my chest.

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post #104 of 252 Old 02-09-2007, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Attached motor today. In order to keep the screws attaching the motor drive to the pipe from sticking up and creating an impression in your screen material, you have to use a countersink drill bit. This allows the head of the screws to be below the plane of the roller. I'll attach some pics. My screws that I planned to use to attach the motor end to the bracket were a bit too short. I will buy some longer ones tommorrow and test the roller to see that it rolls evenly. Then all I have to do is build the valence, mount the screen material,and wire a temporary switch. Note, when using a coutnersink bit, it is easier if you drill a pilot hole about the same size of the screw that you plan to use. It goes much faster this way.
LL
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post #105 of 252 Old 02-10-2007, 09:30 AM
 
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Bulldogger-
Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers! I agree, waves are not acceptable.

As a DIYer myself, I try to find ways to make things that work, and are affordable. I am by NO means an expert on retractable screens. But, I like to experiment, and thus far, I'm still experimenting with this.

But, being a DIY-er, one has to remind oneself:

a) how much time am I willing to put into this.
b) how much money am I willing to spend.
c) what will be the end result?

If you make $50/hr doing what you do, then I would say forget the DIY thang, and go down to the local Stewart dealer and buy something "off the shelf".
You will be many $$ and hairs ahead ( or is that hairs a head?).

Besides the screen material, I have maybe $200 invested in my retractable. I have a 2-inch roller with a 1/4 inch wall thickness. So, IMO, so long as the material is attached properly, the roller is NOT the issue here. I think the load bar is suspect, and I will be addressing that soon. Meanwhile, I am living with the waves.

Don
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post #106 of 252 Old 02-10-2007, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry man, these waves have me going crazy. Doing everything to make sure I get a screen without them.

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post #107 of 252 Old 02-10-2007, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarillo_cinema View Post

If you make $50/hr doing what you do, then I would say forget the DIY thang, and go down to the local Stewart dealer and buy something "off the shelf".
You will be many $$ and hairs ahead ( or is that hairs a head?).

For some of us, this isn't only about dollars and cents. Home theaters can be a hobby and a passion. If it were only about the cost of our time, probably none of use would build a home theater, we would just go to the local theater and spend $20 a couple of times each week. In most cases, that would be a whole lot cheaper than the time, effort, and money we put into our home theaters. One of my other hobbies is wine, and I love a quote I saw on the Wine Spectator web site...
Quote:


Life can be lived in a casual way, or plumbed to the depths. We all choose how and where to spend our energy and attention. You may play music, cook seriously, or tend a lovely garden. Maybe the things you love aren't vital, but they make life richer. Passion is never wasted effort.

So if someone wants to spend their time and money on a hobby / passion to get their drop-down screen just like they want it, then I say POWER TO THEM! "Passion is never a wasted effort".
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post #108 of 252 Old 02-10-2007, 06:56 PM
 
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Hey Scott-

You're talking to a guy that has a serious passion for home theater.
I got laid off of a 6-figure income 27 months ago. I decided that I wanted this for a vocation. Had I'd decided to remain a "paycheck junkie", I'd be major bucks ahead.

Don
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post #109 of 252 Old 02-10-2007, 07:40 PM - Thread Starter
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The best price I got on a Screen Research in the size I want with masking from 16:9 to 2:35 was 9K. If I can build this one for 1.5K and get it to do the same things, I think it is a bargain! Sure DIY is about saving money. I am saving money. You just have to know the context. To a guy who wants a electric screen for 200.00, 1500.00 may seem like a lot even though my inspiration is a 9000.00 screen. For me I get to have the fun of building it. I am definitely enjoying building it!! I was not sure how it would turn out. It is turning out very very well. I have the whole thing working right now. I need to do some fine tuning. I want to make sure that the roller is perfectly level before I mount it to my valence. My wife is even happy. She says it's starting to look 'professional.". There are a lot of little things that you have to figure out. Like what bit to buy in order to be able to counter sink the screws to hold the motor. Tensioning the material is something that I may need to consider if it turns out that inspite of my best efforts, I still have waves. My screen will be no more that 120 wide but I have a 138 inch roller. The plans is to leave room to add some type of tensioning system if I need it. I think this screen is going to last for many many years. As new screen materials are developed, I hope to be able to just re-screen as they do.

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post #110 of 252 Old 02-11-2007, 08:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

My wife is even happy.

Aahh-
Got the WAF going. That's good.

I can tell you that I'm loving every bit of my retractable. I find myself watching more movies in the living room than in the theater, which is set up for cinemascope. Just need to get that anamorphic lens!

BTW, I will be putting up a retractable on the balcony next month for outdoor viewing. I need to find a suitable weather-proof box for the PJ.

Don
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post #111 of 252 Old 02-12-2007, 01:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's a pic of the idler end connected to the bracket. The motor end looks the same except of course it has the motor. Since this picture I am experimenting with mounting the bracket to the board that will be part of the valence.At this point I believe I am going to mount the brakets to the front of the valence and not to the board attached directly to the ceiling. My intention is to mount the roller in such a way as to allow room in front of it for a second smaller roller mounted higher for roll down masking.
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post #112 of 252 Old 02-12-2007, 01:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camarillo_cinema View Post

Aahh-
I can tell you that I'm loving every bit of my retractable. I find myself watching more movies in the living room than in the theater, which is set up for cinemascope. Just need to get that anamorphic lens!

What kind of projector for the outdoors? Going to have to be bright.

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post #113 of 252 Old 02-12-2007, 01:48 PM
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I'd like to setup an outdoor screen also. My Sanyo Z5 is not very bright but by 8pm it's pretty dark in S.California.
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post #114 of 252 Old 02-12-2007, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I am going to mount the brakets to the front of the valence and not to the board attached directly to the ceiling.

Are you planning on mounting the the roller to the valance while it is on the ground? Then attach the screen material to roller on the ground? And finally, attach the entire assembly (valance, roller, and screen) onto the header attached to the ceiling?

Steve
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post #115 of 252 Old 02-12-2007, 02:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

What kind of projector for the outdoors? Going to have to be bright.

Bulldogger-

May not be so bright, 'cause it will be under a patio cover. My first effort for the balcony is to install a 20-ft motorized roller shade with 20% transparent PVC material. This will keep the morning sun out and offer a fair amount of privacy. Movie watching will be night time only. Not really concerned about the ambient light here after dusk, unless it's a full moon.

So wind won't be an issue, I will install eyelets on the ends of the load bar. A cable running vertically at each end passes through the eyelets and keeps the shade from flopping around or possibly becoming a UFO.

I'll probably do an RF control on this one, with limit switches on each end of the travel.

Next thing is a nice weather-proof enclosure for the PJ. I'm thinking of a plexiglass design, with a front door that lifts up when it's show time. You can have the door operated by a RC servo motor thru a linkage.

Best thing to do is try the enclosure with a "garage sale" receiver. Rather sacrifice it than a Pearl.

Don
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post #116 of 252 Old 02-13-2007, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kinkead View Post

Are you planning on mounting the the roller to the valance while it is on the ground? Then attach the screen material to roller on the ground? And finally, attach the entire assembly (valance, roller, and screen) onto the header attached to the ceiling?

Steve

Basically. Remember my motor is not a Somfy motor. As a result the way I have it connected with the universal motor mount, is completely different from the way it was intended to be used. As a result, my motor end is about 1/2 lower than the idler cap end. I am going to place a another piece of wood under the motor side bracket to even them out. I want to make sure that all sides are even so that when the screen rolls up it will do so evenly. When I have the brackets located in the right spot, then I am going to remove the roller and attached the fabric on the ground. I'll mount the valence first to the ceiling and then mount the roller to the valence. That's the way I have done it in the past. I have one of those laser line devices. I'll find the beam in the ceiling with a stud finder and then mark it with a nail. Then I'll shoot a straight line down where that beam should be. To confirm that I am on target, I'll hammer a second nail on the laser line at the opposite end of the room from the first nail. If all goes well, it will hit the beam in the ceiling as well and confirm that I have properly located it. Right at the top of my valance where it meets the ceiling, I'll cut a hole on both ends so the laser can shine through the hole. The area where I connect the valence will be directly above where the roller will be in order to balance the thing and create less pressure for it to lean forward or backwards. To keep everything lined up, I'll take a piece of tape and put that on the ceiling to mark where each end of the valance needs to be to keep the whole thing straight. To do this is a three person job. You need two guys one on each end and one to secure the valance. That's where the wife comes in. She's becoming pretty good at this after helping mount four electric screens to the ceiing. While I and one of my brother, other ones back in college, line it up, my wife will take my nail gun and go down that laser line. When the valance it secure enough, I'll come behind her and use long screws to further secure the valance, about 1 every foot.

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post #117 of 252 Old 02-14-2007, 08:04 AM
 
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I HIGHLY recommend help with putting a system like this up. Even if you have to bribe someone. I had my house cleaner's husband help me with mine. Looks like I'll be making another batch of tamales this weekend!

Don
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post #118 of 252 Old 02-15-2007, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
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I found a cheaper remote control solution for a single motor. About 70.00 on ebay. This company http://www.saaria.com/remoteU2/default.htm Just a single motor control though.

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post #119 of 252 Old 02-15-2007, 08:45 PM
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I'm leaving for China tomorrow. I hope to see some photos of your assembled unit when I return!
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post #120 of 252 Old 02-17-2007, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Working to wrap it up. Good luck with China. I'm sure you will take some pics. Waiting for double sided tape sample. Had to call again and company is rushing samples out. Looks like Sandman's SMX720 is going to be the fabric. I should have the roller mounted to the valance and every thing aligned by Monday for sure. Then only thing left to do will be to get screen material, cut it, mask it and mount it to roller. I expect my tape samples no latter than Wed. as Tues is Mardi Gras. Since it is Mardi Gras season I"m busy partying which has brought home theater projects to a slow pace. Hard to build when you are hung over . Once ran into a plastic surgeon in a bar who told me that the couple of month before Mardi Gras, his business goes up by 33% and all those girls like to show off his work.

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