Building electric roll down screen, here's some parts - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 252 Old 04-13-2007, 10:32 AM
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The formula works for me at present, as I don't have any moire with a 720p projector and a 116" wide 2.37 ratio screen.

I am a little worried down the road though when I upgrade to 1080p. With 1080p, a 49" high screen, and 16:9 ratio movies at 87" wide I will be right around 22 pixels per inch BOTH ways, vertical and horizontal. At that point I may have to go to the rotated/angled screen approach. Maybe a Panasonic 1000 with smoothscreen will make it a non-issue? We'll see, I'm real happy right now.
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post #182 of 252 Old 04-14-2007, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

The formula works for me at present, as I don't have any moire with a 720p projector and a 116" wide 2.37 ratio screen.

I am a little worried down the road though when I upgrade to 1080p. With 1080p, a 49" high screen, and 16:9 ratio movies at 87" wide I will be right around 22 pixels per inch BOTH ways, vertical and horizontal. At that point I may have to go to the rotated/angled screen approach. Maybe a Panasonic 1000 with smoothscreen will make it a non-issue? We'll see, I'm real happy right now.

Use the 98 inch SW4500 to cut your screen out at an angle, tilted. The taller material will allow you more space to cut the angle from the fabric. Then when you have the finished screen, seam the black AT material on top of that to get the drop that you need. If I have a problem with moire, I'll try that approach. Sionce my screen is going to be 120 wide, I should not.

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post #183 of 252 Old 04-16-2007, 11:05 AM
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Your idea having a 2nd screen for 2.35:1 films may be the way to go. I've redesigned my soffit to allow room for two 4" rollers so I can add another screen in the future.

I'm still waiting on my motor brackets from Somfy. Hopefully next week. In the meantime I need to fish a 110v line up the wall to where the screen will be located.
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post #184 of 252 Old 04-16-2007, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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I am going to try a large screen first and see if my projector can drive it. The size I am going with will give me a large screen for 16:9 and 2:35. I am going pretty big, 54 by 128, 2:35. If it's too big, I'll trim it down. I am on vacation, next week so should have some time to finally get this thing up. Still I have enjoyed this project. The great thing about building it yourself is that you can know how to change fabrics and can upgrade if new materials come along. Going to take 3 days to make my screen and a couple of days transit time.

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post #185 of 252 Old 04-20-2007, 07:09 AM
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Thread restored, please PM with any questions.

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post #186 of 252 Old 04-21-2007, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I decided to spray foam down tube and remove the fiberglass. Out of town till Wed, but hope to have the screen up by Thursday. Look for pics Thursday evening if all goes well.

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post #187 of 252 Old 04-26-2007, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Today, I foamed the roller with Great Stuff. Tried the "doors and windows "stuff first. It would not expand and fill the tube. I had to use the gaps and leaks stuff. Took about 5 cans to fill such a large roller. Added some weight to the roller that I really did not want. The roller is heavy enough. Positive side is that the roller is extremely dead sounding. Also recieved my screen material yesterday. Looks great. The top is shear weave black 2390 10% openess which is seamed above SW4500, 5% openess P6 chalk. Affter the foam cures, I'll try mounting the fabric to the roller.

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post #188 of 252 Old 04-27-2007, 10:27 AM
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Hey Bulldogger, has the double sided tape been enough to hold the screen? My first reaction would have been to use a ton of pop-rivets into the roller to hold the material.

Also, do you run a backing of speaker grill material behind the screen or is it just the screen material mounted on the roller?
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post #189 of 252 Old 04-27-2007, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post

Hey Bulldogger, has the double sided tape been enough to hold the screen? My first reaction would have been to use a ton of pop-rivets into the roller to hold the material.

Also, do you run a backing of speaker grill material behind the screen or is it just the screen material mounted on the roller?

When I used double sided carpet tape it was enough to hold the screen on IF you left at least one and a half to two wraps on your roller., but didn't hold very well if you unrolled the screen past that point. So then I decided to add a layer of duct tape on the top side of the screen to pipe edge, and this combination of the two tapes definitely holds the screen in place very well.
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post #190 of 252 Old 04-27-2007, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post

Hey Bulldogger, has the double sided tape been enough to hold the screen? My first reaction would have been to use a ton of pop-rivets into the roller to hold the material.

Also, do you run a backing of speaker grill material behind the screen or is it just the screen material mounted on the roller?

I was about to mount the screen material a few min. ago. However, when I cut through the foam to re-install the idler end rollers, the foam was all goo inside. Looks like I am going to have to foam just a foot or two at at time and let it dry. As for mounting the screen material I am into over-kill myself. I have some spray adhesive that I plan to use in addition to the double sided tape. High strength 3M stuff that I got from Loewes. I'm going to try finishing off the foam today. Out of town tomorrow and will try to mount the material on Sun. if all goes well. Trying to wrap this up but a few unexpected delays. No black backing, my back wall is very dark, with black RPG style diffusers so I do not get much reflection. My current screen is material is more transparent than the SW4500 and I did not need a backing with it either. It depends on how dark your wall is and how close you are to the wall for the light to reflect back. With a black back wall or the area where the image is hitting after going through the screen being black, I do not feel you need a black backing with this material.

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post #191 of 252 Old 04-27-2007, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I was about to mount the screen material a few min. ago. However, when I cut through the foam to re-install the idler end rollers, the foam was all goo inside. Looks like I am going to have to foam just a foot or two at at time and let it dry. As for mounting the screen material I am into over-kill myself. I have some spray adhesive that I plan to use in addition to the double sided tape. High strength 3M stuff that I got from Loewes. I'm going to try finishing off the foam today. Out of town tomorrow and will try to mount the material on Sun. if all goes well. Trying to wrap this up but a few unexpected delays. No black backing, my back wall is very dark, with black RPG style diffusers so I do not get much reflection. My current screen is material is more transparent than the SW4500 and I did not need a backing with it either. It depends on how dark your wall is and how close you are to the wall for the light to reflect back. With a black back wall or the area where the image is hitting after going through the screen being black, I do not feel you need a black backing with this material.

I am just worried because I plan on doing a very high-gloss finish on the front baffles of the L/C/R towers behind the screen. I don't want any light reflecting from the face of the speakers back to the viewers through the screen.
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post #192 of 252 Old 04-27-2007, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crackyflipside View Post

I am just worried because I plan on doing a very high-gloss finish on the front baffles of the L/C/R towers behind the screen. I don't want any light reflecting from the face of the speakers back to the viewers through the screen.

Then you should definitely go for the black backing. I have a high gloss finish on just the top 3/8" of my tower speakers, am not using any backing, and you can sometimes see a reflection off that glossy speaker trim if you look for it.
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post #193 of 252 Old 04-28-2007, 09:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Using the Great stuff was not as easy as you might expect. Because the product is designed to seal leaks, it expanded quickly at the end of the tube with the air source. The problem that I had was that the Great Stuff would expand and block air from the back side of the foam that I had sprayed in. Without air, this foam did not expand well. I tried several methods. The first was attaching a long plastic tube to the end of the nozzle to deliver the Great Stuff deep into the roller. However this gave the result I described. I then tried to do a little at a time. Still, I got gaps of pipe that were unfilled. In the end the only solution that seemed to work was drilling holes every 18 inches or so into the pipe. I'd spray foam into one hole and let the foam expand and dry. Then I'd continue to the next hole until I had the entire pipe filled. This may not have been necessary as even with the pipe not having full coverage, the pipe appeared quite dead sounding when I tapped it with a screw driver. To be honest, I do not think entire pipe has to be filled, just enough to stop the pipe from ringing. After all of my effort, I did not want to leave anything to chance so filled the entire pipe. Everything should be ready in the morning to attach the screen material. First, I am going to reinstall the roller into my valance. I did spray dampening material inside the valance. The combination of the foam and it should have reduced the sound. I will test and then disassemble. If all goes well, I should mount the material to the roller in the morning.

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post #194 of 252 Old 04-30-2007, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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I tested everything. It works fine but is still noisy. The foam did decrease the noise level when the motor runs. My wife says that it is not that noisy and that I should mount the fabric and call it a day as I only will hear the screen for less than 1 min. Still, I want to hear another brand motor before I wrap this up. I purchased a 12 foot long board. I am going to use it as a straight edge to line the fabric against. Then I am going to roll the pipe to edge of the board and align it with the board as well. I figure this should make both the roller and fabric even. Then I plan to roll the pipe back some and pull the fabric around it and see if I can line it up with a marker line that I made down the side of the roller. I plan to place the double sided tape along this line to the outside of the line so that when the fabric rolls around the roller, it will adhere to the tape.

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post #195 of 252 Old 04-30-2007, 08:39 PM
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Bulldogger,

I hope the board method works for you, but I've never had good luck buying perfectly straight lumber. If it doesn't work, here's a method I used that worked well.

I laid my pipe down on the floor, had a helper steady the pipe while I marked my line using a carpenters level which was also placed on the floor, right up next to the pipe. I marked a section using the top of the level as a straight line edge, and then moved it along the pipe and marked again until done. You can pretty much count on a carpenters level being a straight line, you just need to make sure that the pipe doesn't move while you are marking the line. Good luck.
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post #196 of 252 Old 05-02-2007, 09:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlbrand View Post

Bulldogger,

I hope the board method works for you, but I've never had good luck buying perfectly straight lumber. If it doesn't work, here's a method I used that worked well.

I laid my pipe down on the floor, had a helper steady the pipe while I marked my line using a carpenters level which was also placed on the floor, right up next to the pipe. I marked a section using the top of the level as a straight line edge, and then moved it along the pipe and marked again until done. You can pretty much count on a carpenters level being a straight line, you just need to make sure that the pipe doesn't move while you are marking the line. Good luck.

I have a bunch of tools and that sounds like a better idea.

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post #197 of 252 Old 05-03-2007, 06:28 PM - Thread Starter
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I purchased a new Somfy motor, Somfy 525A2 LT50 , for 72.00 plus shipping on ebay. My parts are all Somfy and this should work better with them. My belief if that this motor will be quieter than the current motor I am using. Only problem now is that the drive for this unit is back ordered from Somfy for a month!

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post #198 of 252 Old 05-08-2007, 03:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Happy camper! The Somfy motor produces considerably less noise. I have absolutely no problem with the sound level. Had to rig it to the tube to see how much noise it makes while spinning the roller. Very little and about the sound level of the Da-lite screens that I have owned. It was worth the extra trouble.

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post #199 of 252 Old 05-13-2007, 06:45 AM
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bulldogger,

I'm glad the new motor worked out well for you. You sure have put the effort into making your screen quiet and smooth, and it sounds like the effort has paid off! I might try to motorize my screen someday, and you have sure put together a great resource thread here for doing that!
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post #200 of 252 Old 05-13-2007, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
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It's been trial and error. I appreciate everyone's input. The Somfy motor is a night and day difference from the motor that I was using. My wife says the difference is HUGE. I do not think anyone will find the noise level of the LT50 525a objectionable. Somfy tells me that in a few months they will have an even quieter motor. I too busy to do everything so I am sending my material to have pocket sewn for the aluminum rod I am using as a weight bar. Figured that since my roller parts are back ordered, I would add a few improvements. My wife is really pushing me to get the bigger screen up. After all of this I have to add roll down masking to justify all the time I have put into it especially with the reasonably priced solution now available.

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post #201 of 252 Old 05-22-2007, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I purchased a new Somfy motor, Somfy 525A2 LT50 , for 72.00 plus shipping on ebay. My parts are all Somfy and this should work better with them. Only problem now is that the drive for this unit is back ordered from Somfy for a month!

I've been waiting since February for parts from Somfy. I finally asked them to ship whatever they had in stock. I got the drives for the idler end caps today and got a big surprise. The 89mm drives are only 82mm in diameter! Somfy calls them 89mm drives because they fit a 89mm OD tube.

I'm really fed up with Somfy. I have never dealt with a company this bad in my life. Their catalog is 4 years out-of-date, their parts are all back-ordered, and I won't even mention the prices they charge. The big problem with Somfy is they have little to no competition, otherwise they would be out of business in my opinion.

So, I guess I'll have to shim the Somfy drives with a piece of 3.5" OD tubing. The tubing should fit inside my 3.5" sch40 pipe. I have plenty of time to find a solution... the motor drives are still back-ordered.
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post #202 of 252 Old 05-26-2007, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I used a smaller diameter tube and slide that inside the 4 inch pipe to get the drives to work. If you look back at the beginning of the thread you can see what I have done. I am waiting for motor drives as well.

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post #203 of 252 Old 05-27-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogger View Post

I used a smaller diameter tube and slide that inside the 4 inch pipe to get the drives to work. If you look back at the beginning of the thread you can see what I have done. I am waiting for motor drives as well.

I found 3.5" tube cut to size on Ebay for a reasonable price. Should arrive soon.
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post #204 of 252 Old 06-19-2007, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Steve, did you ever get the Somfy parts? Still waiting on mine.

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post #205 of 252 Old 06-20-2007, 11:08 AM
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I received an email today from Ken at AV Outlet. The motor bracket and crown (Somfy p/n 6061359) will ship next week. This is the last part I need to finish my screen.

I purchased a 4'x10' sheet of plywood from the lumber store (it's not easy to find 10' long plywood). So, this weekend I'll construct the soffit to house the roller and motor. Then I'll texture and paint the plywood to match the drywall in my family room.
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post #206 of 252 Old 06-20-2007, 11:14 AM
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Bulldogger,
Are you spray painting the left and right borders of your screen? If so, have you found a suitable flat black paint to use? The vinyl Krylon paint I've seen at Home Depot is glossy.

The other DIY screen threads I've read have recommended flat black paint to reduce reflections.
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post #207 of 252 Old 06-20-2007, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kinkead View Post

I received an email today from Ken at AV Outlet. The motor bracket and crown (Somfy p/n 6061359) will ship next week. This is the last part I need to finish my screen.

I purchased a 4'x10' sheet of plywood from the lumber store (it's not easy to find 10' long plywood). So, this weekend I'll construct the soffit to house the roller and motor. Then I'll texture and paint the plywood to match the drywall in my family room.

Yeah, finally. Ken e-mailed me to let me know that I should expect the parts. Chris is working on new screen material for me after Fed-ex destroyed my old material that Chris had added a tensioning system to.Finally. I am on vacation the July 1 through 8 so hopefully I can finish the screen then.

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post #208 of 252 Old 06-20-2007, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Kinkead View Post

Bulldogger,
Are you spray painting the left and right borders of your screen? If so, have you found a suitable flat black paint to use? The vinyl Krylon paint I've seen at Home Depot is glossy.

The other DIY screen threads I've read have recommended flat black paint to reduce reflections.

Buy the Krylon fusion Camo black. It is an extremely deep black and completely flat. I bought mine from Ace Hardware. Only paint that I found that was black enough, and is designed to work with this material. The Camo black will do the job.

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post #209 of 252 Old 07-13-2007, 03:20 PM
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I've constructed the soffit that will house my motor and roller. And this weekend I'll run the electrical wiring to power the Somfy motor. Now, I'm just waiting on the motor drive and crown to be delivered from Somfy. I've been waiting for 5 months now and not sure when (or if) they will ever arrive.

I spoke with the manager at Somfy last week and made it crystal clear how unhappy I am with them. Today I got my hopes up when a box arrived from Somfy. It contained the crown for a LT60 motor (I have a LT50) and they forgot to include the motor drive.
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post #210 of 252 Old 07-16-2007, 10:08 AM
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Here are some photos of the soffit I built using 3/4" plywood. The screen will drop down from the soffit and hang in front of the nook containing my A/V equipment, center speaker, and RPTV.

This is looking up at the soffit. You can see the slot in the soffit where the screen will be deployed.


Another view from further away. The soffit is painted and textured to match the walls for WAF.


The front of the soffit is hinged for access to the screen, roller, and motor. You can see the roller mounts in this photo. When Somfy delivers the drive and crown for my motor, I'll install the roller in the soffit.


I plan to extend the length of the soffit to match the full width of the room. The extensions will be non-functional... for appearance only.

The shiny wires you see hanging down from the soffit are there to support a temporary "Do-able" plywood screen. The do-able screen lets me test different screen sizes and locations before I install the fabric screen.


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