FnEasy DIY Painted Screen Solution - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 380 Old 04-11-2007, 07:19 AM
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First, Many thanks to all of the experienced people willing to share their knowledge.

Unfortunately, for me it has just become overwhelming, and I really could use some help in determining a good starting point.

My office has outgrown my basement and I will be moving out soon. In eager anticipation of reclaiming my "man room", I purchased a Sharp XR-10X projector. 2000 lumens, 2000:1 contrast ratio. Set up the projector and ran for about 2 hours projecting against my calf#*%# brown wall. Wasn't interested in quality, but just wanted to test the projector since I knew I would be putting into storage for a while.

Now the time is approaching for a permanent installation, so I started researching screens. Probably should have just stopped when I found that blackout cloth is available, because after all my research (not even really knowing what I am reading most of the time), I am back to thinking that this may be my best first option.

I have complete lighting control and will probably watch movies in near darkness, but also want to be able to watch football games with at least enough ambient light to see the other people in the room.

I was initially convinced that some degree of gray would be the best choice for watching with some ambient light, now I'm having second thoughts.

I can either paint the wall, or build a permanent screen. Screen size will be approx 120" diagonal, and I am hoping to get a decent screen in the $100.00 range.

Where to start???????? Wall or screen?, white or gray?, simple off the shelf or one of the complicated mixes?

I know I will probably end up repainting several times, but if anyone can suggest a good starting point given my parameters, I would greatl appreciate it!!!!!

Thanks
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post #272 of 380 Old 04-11-2007, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodypa View Post

First, Many thanks to all of the experienced people willing to share their knowledge.

Unfortunately, for me it has just become overwhelming, and I really could use some help in determining a good starting point.

My office has outgrown my basement and I will be moving out soon. In eager anticipation of reclaiming my "man room", I purchased a Sharp XR-10X projector. 2000 lumens, 2000:1 contrast ratio. Set up the projector and ran for about 2 hours projecting against my calf#*%# brown wall. Wasn't interested in quality, but just wanted to test the projector since I knew I would be putting into storage for a while.

Now the time is approaching for a permanent installation, so I started researching screens. Probably should have just stopped when I found that blackout cloth is available, because after all my research (not even really knowing what I am reading most of the time), I am back to thinking that this may be my best first option.

I have complete lighting control and will probably watch movies in near darkness, but also want to be able to watch football games with at least enough ambient light to see the other people in the room.

I was initially convinced that some degree of gray would be the best choice for watching with some ambient light, now I'm having second thoughts.

I can either paint the wall, or build a permanent screen. Screen size will be approx 120" diagonal, and I am hoping to get a decent screen in the $100.00 range.

Where to start???????? Wall or screen?, white or gray?, simple off the shelf or one of the complicated mixes?

I know I will probably end up repainting several times, but if anyone can suggest a good starting point given my parameters, I would greatl appreciate it!!!!!

Thanks


I just replied to your request in a different thread.

If the FnEasy approach appeals to you maybe Tiddler can give you a starting point for a FnEasy that is close to my screen paint. I think he knows my specs pretty well but if he's forgotten I'm doing 22/48 LB and a 50/50 poly paint topcoat using a satin poly. If he can convert that to FnEasy that could give you a good starting point in this solution tree.


Bud

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post #273 of 380 Old 04-11-2007, 07:40 AM
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Bud,

Thanks again....I responded in the other thread too.

Sorry for the duplication. Maybe thats my problem.....trying to get too many opinions and options. The more I learn, the less I know!!!!
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post #274 of 380 Old 04-13-2007, 04:27 AM
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Actually, one who is really painting a screen might just toss the rollers after each coat, and use a fresh one on the next.... they're quite cheap, come in multi-roller packs.....

I think your frame of reference is one who is making so many test panels that throwing away a roller is taboo


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post #275 of 380 Old 04-19-2007, 07:04 PM
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I've got one coat of fneasy 06 on... (rolled) looks nice... I used Floetrol at 1/16 mix... seems to flatten out nicely.

I'll keep you updated...
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post #276 of 380 Old 04-19-2007, 09:20 PM
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Just some clarification from a Resene Chemist regarding the use of extenders vurses water.

Resene Hot Weather Thinner will give you the increased working time (wet
edge is the technical term) while maintaining viscosity, water alone
reduces viscosity to a much higher extent and may give the aeration
issues you have seen with roller application. Our WB enamels do set up
and dry quickly and over summer we always recommend use of Hot Weather
Thinner for all application methods.

So the clear difference is "working time".

If you require viscosity, ie for spraying adding water is desirable, although addition of extenders add working time in dry summer conditions. When conditions have a high evapotransporation rate.

For rollering extender is preferable, although in the absence of extender water can be used. Aeration issues can happen when rollering with water.

Typical maximum is 10% of extender or water for volume. More than this can damage the base performance.

Masterpiece Calibration Ltd
Christchurch NZ
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post #277 of 380 Old 04-20-2007, 04:15 AM
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In my experience, adding water does cause aeration issues when rolling. Bubbles form as you roll and when they collapse they form little marks on the finish surface. I don't use water for anything anymore. Adding polyurethanes is actually a good way to thin paint, increase dry times and to help self level the paint. Floetrol is also a good product for rolling, not spraying.

Meow.
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post #278 of 380 Old 04-20-2007, 12:33 PM
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As I've begun to delve into this world of DIY screens, I see how you guys have gotten hooked... there's something VERY satisfying about coming up with something better for a fraction of the price... Though I don't think I've got the time or the resources to get into it like some of you... Once my screen is made, I'm doing some movie watching... However, the herculean efforts of some of you goes a LONG way toward helping the rest of us dabblers come up with satisfying results....

Another coat of fneasy 06 tonight, then on to poly tomorrow... then I build the frame and then I hang it.. and then I chill.....
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post #279 of 380 Old 04-21-2007, 01:05 PM
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Put 1x Pearl top coat on today... looks smoothe. I used the down rolling technique, I think I'll stick with just one coat...

Tomorrow I build the frame....

Should have some pics within a few days...
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post #280 of 380 Old 04-22-2007, 04:47 PM
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Ok DIY experts, I need some help. I've been reading through this thread the past couple days and while some of it makes sense, alot of it seems to go a little bit over my head - mostly the stuff about all the different paints and tints and mixtures. Anyways, here's my situation:

I'm moving into a new house this week. It has a really nice den in the basement that will be perfect to set my Marquee 8500 up in. Now, the whole place needs painted anyways (unfortunately as far as that goes the carpet is brand new so I'll have to be extra careful) so I was thinking that this would be a great time to learn how to paint the wall to use as a screen. I just need somebody to tell me exactly what paints I should use. Remember, I'm a total beginner at this. I'm also intrigued with what is being said about the Wagner spray gun...especially since I have a whole house to paint. Whats the model of the gun? Would it be impractical and messy to use a spray gun in a place that has new carpets? Some folks are making this gun sound like the second coming...

If I'm cluttering up this thread then please PM me.
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post #281 of 380 Old 04-22-2007, 08:33 PM
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Thanks alot for your help! As of now, the room is a very light tan/beige color. The way things are looking it may have to stay that way for now because of certain time constraints so I will need gray. It has two windows on a side wall but I will be doing my best to control all of that light through blackout cloth or something of that ilk. As far as spray painting, is there a place where one can rent one of these Wagner Control Sprayers? I'm gonna go read the thread on Laminate Screen Material now.
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post #282 of 380 Old 04-23-2007, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcastleberg View Post

Thanks alot for your help! As of now, the room is a very light tan/beige color. The way things are looking it may have to stay that way for now because of certain time constraints so I will need gray. It has two windows on a side wall but I will be doing my best to control all of that light through blackout cloth or something of that ilk. As far as spray painting, is there a place where one can rent one of these Wagner Control Sprayers? I'm gonna go read the thread on Laminate Screen Material now.

The Wagner is a relatively new item, and most likely being as inexpensive as it is, it's doubtful that any Tool Rental place will be offering something to rent that would cost the same amount to buy.

mcastleburg, you have a what would seem to be a dedicated Home Theater going in a new House, and a Marquee 8500, a expensive CRT PJ. I would not opt out of spending a few extra dollars to assure yourself of "screen results" that would be commensurate to the potential of your PJ. That is if you do not have many hours on the Tubes.

The 8500 only put out at the very most 225 lumens new out of the box. That means the use of a Gray to afford yourself a degree of ambient light viewing potential is a useless gesture. The suggestion to look into the DW Laminate is the best thing you could pursue in a non-painted solution. Perhaps benven's CGIII if you want to improve upon your gain....a worthy pursuit if ever there was one with such a low lumen PJ. Or "S-I-L-V-E-R. be sure either is sprayed upon a very smooth surface. But if you do elect to spray, buy a Wagner and after squirting your screen, use it for other projects.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #283 of 380 Old 04-23-2007, 06:35 AM
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Yeah I spent an hour or so reading about the DW laminates and such late last night. What kind of threw me off was the cost but I guess it seems worth it compared to the amount of effort that will be required to paint the wall itself. I still haven't done the 16:9 mod on my Marquee so if I grabbed a 5x12 perhaps I would have to do that.
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post #284 of 380 Old 04-23-2007, 05:41 PM
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Ok I purchased the UPW #1050 and the #780 tonight so I guess thats the direction I'm gonna go at this point. My Dad and I are gonna paint the whole house with one of the heavier duty Wagner sprayers meant for that job. Would I be better off rolling the wall I'm going to use for the screen or would the sprayer work for that?
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post #285 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcastleberg View Post

Ok I purchased the UPW #1050 and the #780 tonight so I guess thats the direction I'm gonna go at this point. My Dad and I are gonna paint the whole house with one of the heavier duty Wagner sprayers meant for that job. Would I be better off rolling the wall I'm going to use for the screen or would the sprayer work for that?



If over these last few years, the other Wagners could be used, the "Control Spray" would never have been considered. It's a shame to see you now have to probably have to dismiss the possibility of spraying your screen because you want a Spray Gun that can paint a House.

Here's your last chance. Rent a "Canister Feed" prayer for the "House's Walls", buy the Wagner Control Spray for your Detail Trim.....and of course the Screen project.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #286 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 06:33 AM
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Hah, sorry I wasn't aware of that. I thought all the uproar over the Control Spray was its ease of use, not that it was the only one that would even work. I can't really afford to buy the Control Spray right now. My dad bought the other Wagner last night to use for painting the house. I was thinking that I would have to roll this one wall.
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post #287 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 07:34 AM
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lol my dad is arguing with me right now that theres no reason i should need to go out and buy the control spray when he already got the Power Painter Wide Shot Pro. what about the Control Spray makes it so much better for painting the screen than say this PPWSP?
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post #288 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 09:26 AM
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My screen has turned out great using the down rolling method. Floetrol at 1/16 mix with the quart of UPW seemed to go on nice and smoothe with no rolling marks. The 1x pearl poly coat needed a heavy load of poly on the roller, and then just keep down rolling till it looks right...

3/16" rollers are available at Sherwin-Williams, and Home Depot... don't settle for anything with a larger nap..

Sherwin Williams also had some nice sponge hand sanders for in-between coats LIGHT sanding... Use the "fine" coarseness ones to give a light sanding and then wipe off the dust before the next coat...

Once my Avia disk comes and I calibrate my Z5, I'll post pics...
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post #289 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Like I said before, I'm no expert, but I do recall reading a post where someone compared the Control Spray to the other Wagner power painters. The said it was nice to use something that did not spatter, had very little overspray, and did not need to be cleaned all the time.

That is essentially the issue....and hence the name "Control Spray" meaning something entirely different than "Wide Shot". Pro or otherwise.

Splattering comes from one of, or both the following. Unstrained paint clogging up the needle orifice. Inconsistent pressure and/or poor needle valve performance. The first is caused by users who fail to take recommended steps. The latter has been due to Wagner product just being too cheaply built for the expenditure you make obtaining one. That's why for ability to to a better job of precision painting (...as it were...) and the price-to-build quality ratio, the Control Spray is a No-Brain'er. That's a BIG "IMO"

Ok. Tiddler made a good suggestion really. Spray the hell out of that house with the current Wagner. But try to experiment along the way. For goodness sake, your going to have lots of Drywall surfaces at hand, eh? On at least one of 'em, dilute the paint to a consistency of Tomato soup, strain it and shoot. Back up a bit first, then adjust your distance until you see a fairly abrupt edge develop where the paint/no paint boundary is, and then adjust your speed across the wall (...you would be going horizontally, you know...) to that which lightly but evenly coats without runs developing. IF the Wide Shot (...I like the premise of that name actually...) doesn't splatter or cough up too much paint with a thinned mix, but instead just fill the environment with a haze of paint droplets , waddya I care? All I/You/We want really is the ability to coat evenly without undue texture.


Quote:
Again I would hit up MM or some of the other spray painters for better advice and info.

Good Luck.

All of that. Dads can be intractable. I know I was....when it came to money especially. At 53, with a 34 yr old Daughter and 3 Sons 27-25-23 behind me, I have this nagging feeling of somehow being able to relate.

But I bet "Dad" hasn't yet got the fire in his belly that the "Son" has, so perhaps......perhaps...he needs to join the rest of us with FP Video Induced Juvenileitus

Joking aside, it's worth "a shot", even if it goes "Wide".



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Originally Posted by Basement Dude View Post

My screen has turned out great using the down rolling method. Floetrol at 1/16 mix with the quart of UPW seemed to go on nice and smoothe with no rolling marks. The 1x pearl poly coat needed a heavy load of poly on the roller, and then just keep down rolling till it looks right...

3/16" rollers are available at Sherwin-Williams, and Home Depot... don't settle for anything with a larger nap..

Sherwin Williams also had some nice sponge hand sanders for in-between coats LIGHT sanding... Use the "fine" coarseness ones to give a light sanding and then wipe off the dust before the next coat...

That sound good! If those sponges are "Fine", you can use them to "down tune" any excessive brightness by lightly sweeping the screen evenly across the entire surface.

I love a good success story.

Quote:
That being said... If I had the extra $$ I would have sprung for the control spray... I'm pushing things as it is buying this projector... but boy... it's sure worth it!

No sweat! It's the end satisfaction you get that's important.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #290 of 380 Old 04-24-2007, 09:29 AM
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That being said... If I had the extra $$ I would have sprung for the control spray... I'm pushing things as it is buying this projector... but boy... it's sure worth it!
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post #291 of 380 Old 04-25-2007, 04:42 AM
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Tiddler, I would offer that this thread should then be appropriately renamed to 'Fn Easy DIY "Rolled" Painted Screen Solution'.
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post #292 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

For those who may have been mislead by recent efforts and some of my conclusions regarding upgrades to the basic FnEasy DIY Painted Screen Solution I feel it is necessary to restate my initial evaluation of this solution compared to the semi-opaque complex metallic mix solutions. First of all I will state that this is not speculation but conclusions based on observations that I have made. I have implemented the more common metallic mixes and also a variation that I developed to be more flexible in lightness of gray or even white.

Given the same lightness of gray an FnEasy screen can compete with a complex semi-opaque metallic mix screen but is much much easier to prepare and apply.

To achieve performance levels beyond either the FnEasy or complex semi-opaque metallic mixes it is necessary to employ a metallic or pearl clear coat. The introduction of a metallic/pearl clear coat does increase gain and contrast while not significantly reducing viewing cone.

FnEasy is not only easily implemented but a very effective DIY Painted Screen solution. Don't be dazzled by exotic ingredients or assume that complexity will translate into a perceptible improvement in performance.

Todd
I have done not 5% of the actual testing that you have done along these lines. I haven't seen first hand the results of your testing but have viewed nearly all your work that you have posted here. I have viewed it with an open mind and tried to apply logic to the outcomes disregarding what others may have argued in a different direction without any hard evidence to support those arguments.

Your testing methods like all of us here could be flawed to some extent just by the sheer fact we have limited funding and resources. But the overall spirit of what you have done is honest and straightforward.

We have had lengthy discussions on here as to the best methods to show the results to the forum that someone without a PHD can understand what it is that happens in these screens. And the information is all on the forum for anyone that wants to see it and do their own analyzes of it.

We both think alike from the standpoint that many don't want to make a life long process of making a screen and should have some general guidelines to get a beginner screen going.

I have asked many times of the proponents of the more complex solutions to do some of the same simple comparisons you have done and show us all the relative improvements the complex offers. I have always asked that such comparisons be done fairly comparing samples of close to equal gray values.

Without any evidence to date to dispute the statement you made above and the fact that all my research into this along with what I have viewed of what you have done I have to say I'm 100% in agreement with you and the above post.


Bud

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post #293 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 09:07 AM
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Well I do NOT agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

For those who may have been mislead by recent efforts and some of my conclusions regarding upgrades to the basic FnEasy DIY Painted Screen Solution I feel it is necessary to restate my initial evaluation of this solution compared to the semi-opaque complex metallic mix solutions. First of all I will state that this is not speculation but conclusions based on observations that I have made. I have implemented the more common metallic mixes and also a variation that I developed to be more flexible in lightness of gray or even white.


Those observations you made are not conclusive, nor do the represent results as they can be and are observed in a "Full Sized Screen" format. More on this below.


Quote:


Given the same lightness of gray an FnEasy screen can compete with a complex semi-opaque metallic mix screen but is much much easier to prepare and apply.
To achieve performance levels beyond either the FnEasy or complex semi-opaque metallic mixes it is necessary to employ a metallic or pearl clear coat. The introduction of a metallic/pearl clear coat does increase gain and contrast while not significantly reducing viewing cone.



That is far too generalized and essentially a false (wrong) conclusion you've made based on very little practical "Real Life" observations. And you assume too much in that you've decided what is "Easy" for others based upon your own preferences and abilities. While they (...your expressed opinions....) may be representative of the opinions of many others, developed after having read such as being stated over and over again repeatedly, for you or anyone else to assume that those others cannot or would not prefer to attempt something else is very much a example of close-mindedness. Test panels are at best a approximation of "expected...hoped for results", not a benchmark to judge other applications as to their effectiveness or comparability. It matters not if you do one or a hundred. For that, you need full sized examples receiving identical content from identical sources, under identical circumstance.

This point has been proven, and was proven long before you began posting anything, so it should, and does remain a "constant". I myself have suffered from being "called out" that the very samples I provided for comparison did not represent effective subject for making accurate judgments, but of course my "samples" were those of lessor applications compared against a full size DIY representation of the application they were being tested against. Mostly just "White" subjects being compared to "advanced" mixes. No matter how it's done, such testing of down-sized samples fall to being very ineffective until they sized reach to at least 25% of the larger surface. Even then, placement within the screen area is another factor that cannot be overlooked as being a potential element in affecting the end results observed.

The ONLY advantage such Top Coats bring is increased gain at the expense of other viewing attributes. "Tunnel Vision" viewing cones are fine for those who can accept them, but ANY screen that has such shows off it's limitations, and it's perchant toward being less than desirable in many instances. A Top Coat was always a "Fix" not a required step. And that "Fix" is needed only when the base Screen App is found wanting. If FnEasy needs a Top Coat to measure up "performance wise" in any way, then your own statements are contradictory. For a DIY screen that turned out to be of less than desired brightness, such can restore a measure of acceptability. But you cannot take it too far.

BTW, Contrast is NOT increased, only the appearance of such because the brightest areas have been given a boost by such Top Coatings. Your not going to increase "actual" Black levels by ramping up brightness. That's impossible. No, at best, if the solution can increase gain in just the right manner, without overdriving the surface into Hot Spotting or Sheening, it can make the blacks appear to be darker in comparison. That's all Brother....no more. To do "more" at the screen level you must have more working for you than just Gray.

What would be more correct would be the following statement.

:FnEasy is a simple to make and apply neutral Gray screen paint solution. It provides excellent results when combined with an appropriately matched PJ and room configuration. It's performance is very competitive in "Image Quality", but it provides no additional Gain, as it's being compiled without the benefit of addition components that allow such to occur. To achieve performance levels beyond what the FnEasy can provide itself, it is necessary to employ a metallic or pearl clear coat. The introduction of a metallic/pearl clear coat does increase gain



You seem to be proclaiming your specific Pearl coat creation as being the only way significant improvements in results can be had, yet you cannot say you have ever seen such employed by anyone in enough full sized practical applications to be able to make such a definitive proclamation. How many have been done? 1? 2? You have done how many yourself? 1? And that wasn't very "Easy" either, was it?

There are too many variables instituted with FnEasy for it to be labeled so "Easy".
Your trying to make it seem to be the "End All" and all it is is "Easy and very Acceptable". C'mon now, all it really is is just old news made better by the use of more precise neutral mixing, and even the Pearl experiments and Top Coats contain no new elements or developments that were not existent and proven long before it's creation. And somehow those developments never lit any raging fires of passion. No. You still must match up the choice of hue to the room/PJ, and it seems to be plain that FnEasy needs a "Boost" to compete with mixes you seem anxious to reduce to a position beneath FnEasy's "Pedestal" status. And you and many others have often stated how no one solution is broad based enough to warrant "Best of the best for virtually any application" status.

Your statements above and below would now seem to be saying otherwise. Your having 5-6 related threads, and posting continually on them about how good something is doesn't make it all come to be so. That FnEasy is an excellent Gray solution that can be easily applied by most anyone is a given, and your efforts to bring it to the forefront of people's attention are commendable, but overstated and overdone.

Quote:


FnEasy is not only easily implemented but a very effective DIY Painted Screen solution. Don't be dazzled by exotic ingredients or assume that complexity will translate into a perceptible improvement in performance.

A very discrediting statement that seems to be saying you believe that such things are not necessary, and that other would do well not to concern themselves with such ideas and concepts. Yet you determine on the other hand that FNEasy works better at doing what needs to be done if reflective Top Coats are added. Hmmmmm...., and why is that? Because it doesn't contain such assistance within it's basic make-up like other mixes do. And they work great as well at doing what the mixes are alluded to do WITHOUT the additional step of Top Coating.

FnEasy is just "Easy" and that's all it is really. That, and about the singularly most hyped solution by a single person's effort ever on this Forum. The effort and excitement generated by past developments was due to both posted examples AND confirmed results by dozens who actually tried such and saw the difference. Where are those testimonials for FnEasy that go beyond "Good" into exclamtions of "Incredible"? Comments that state how nice something looks/works are not enough to herald FnEasy as the "Second Coming" or Alpha/Omega of Painted Screen solutions.

It boils down to this. If others cannot proclaim their mixes or ideas as being so superior to other applications, like you've decided you can by making statements like the last one that essentially cast doubt on the validity of anything else BUT FnEasy as being necessary, then you should stop promoting FnEasy by making such derogatory comments that many uninitiated and unknowing DIY'ers might/would take out of hand as being "Law".

I don't know why this has happened with you. Might be pride in you work/effort. I can easily relate to those feelings. It is pretty obvious by all the amount of time you spend posting that you feel strongly about your convictions. But you are being just too conclusive about things that have been proven to be far better and more effective than you seem to be trying convince others that they are...or are not as is the case.

I'm not coming down on you about discrediting any particular effort or mix, but rather that your disclaiming them all in favor of FnEasy.

I've been there before myself, and so I feel I can make these statements knowing what I see as being nothing if not a case of unfortunate dej'a vu . It cannot lead to anything but others taking offense that you would discount things know to work out of hand as being lessor in performance, or unworthy of consideration.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #294 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 09:36 AM
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The screen I made using fneasy 06 was just that.... easy! Is it the best thing since sliced bread? I don't know....

The black levels seem really good with my z5, though that is the projector's strength.

Now that I've watched it a little while, I do wish the skies were a little less "dingy".

However, I haven't yet received my AVIA disk, so my comments may change once I've gotten things dialed in.

I went with fn easy because I'm paint-challenged. Down-rolling a few coats of paint seemed like it would be easy enough, and it was.... Of course, I'm glad I posted my intentions of using an archaic spray gun and had those ridiculous thoughts shot down.... 'cause the results have been very good.

Keep in mind, I've never seen this projector with another screen, I've never seen another projector in a home for that matter...

For the first-time projector buyer who wants a nice screen with little investment and even less work, fn easy is a perfect solution in my mind...

Now, once I get more cash and decide to experiment a little more, maybe I'll try another solution out there... like the laminates... but for the meantime, friends come over and the ooohs and ahhhs can't be beat!

Some recent statements by friends who have visited my basement...

"Wow, did you make that yourself!!??"

"That looks professional!!"

"I don't see why anyone would buy a tv now that I've seen this!"

I haven't been posting much lately because my fn easy 06 screen is hanging from the ceiling being bathed by the hypnotic rays of the PLV-Z5.... and me in a trance as I sit there utterly satisfied with a screen that I made... all the while thinking... "I made that.... I made that.... I made that.... I'm so proud of myself....!!!"
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post #295 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 09:59 AM
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Good and telling comments, and quite to be expected with a light hued neutral gray screen and a Z5 doing the shooting. I especially like the "Pride" I see in them, for a good job done in making a Screen can lead to a feeling of pride in one's work that far outstrips what one normally experiences. Probably because of the satisfaction of seeing the "Jaw Drop Syndrome" occur with one's friends. Been there, seen that...and I love it too.

The "Easy" aspect cannot be denied. That isn't in question.

I want to be clear, it's the blanket statements "against the need for the use of an advanced mix" I object to, and the seeming air of decisiveness about a subject containing too many variables and outlooks. Made as such, they seem to preclude all other considerations as being inferior, or in the least, less desirable.

..and maybe it's just a little bit of; "If I can't write about how strongly I believe what I prefer is better/best, why can someone else?" Yeah, that's a little juvenile, but we all know how much this stuff affects us. I'm no different, and I freely admit to my passions. But I'm holding them in check, as I've been asked to, and as is expected of me.

Todd knows I respect him and his efforts. It would be a less advantageous place on DIY Screens without his input/contributions. That's for sure. Things just have to be kept in perspective, and EVERYTHING seen as for being what it is and how it actually performs. If there has been no independent comparative testing done on the scale of that which someone can see undeniable results, then ANY DIY application at best can only be presented as to it's advantages and potential, not stated as being the decidedly better than anything else in it's class.

And "In it's Class" is a telling comment. If a much darker Gray hue w/metallic content can perform as well as FnEasy does with it being a much lighter hue, and the darker hued mix does so without a Top Coat, all the while delivering deeper Black levels, then what should be the judgement? Simply that it is not a good comparison? No! It would be because the "Advanced Mix" is doing something the "Easy" mix cannot. That's not what is being alluded to. Rather that FnEasy can "Do it All" and do so "as good or better", and if not exactly "All" or "Better", then the addition of a Pearl Top Coat will make such so.

Well, the same could be said of several advanced mixes as well. All can be adjusted to perform better or worse. Mostly better than any "Simple Mix'

This is what is being stated as NOT being the case, and to that I object strongly.

Everything we do here should be offered up as choices, and the decision as to how good they are left to the actual "Do'ers" I thought that was were we were supposed to be, all of us avoiding "Hype" and proclamations that discount other applications.

That's all I'm referring to, not anything personal or intended to be combatative.

Yep. What we need is a well thought out DIY Screen Shootout. Question is, are the proponents of various applications up to the task, or are they willing to provide the support such an endeavor requires. If anyone advocating a DIY solution cannot or will not make an effort to provide such "Real Life" verification of a concept through exacting comparisons, they should recede into the background if they cannot justify their words with actions.

Or......., if no Shoot Out is forthcoming, we should settle into a habit of providing alternative solutions that while they may differ in quality and/or ease of construction, are all equally presented for others to make their own decisions based on info that is not overblown, hyped, or presented at the expense of the efforts of others.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #296 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 12:14 PM
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I'm not seeing what all the fuss is about. Here's my comments on Todd's original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

For those who may have been mislead by recent efforts and some of my conclusions regarding upgrades to the basic FnEasy DIY Painted Screen Solution I feel it is necessary to restate my initial evaluation of this solution compared to the semi-opaque complex metallic mix solutions. First of all I will state that this is not speculation but conclusions based on observations that I have made. I have implemented the more common metallic mixes and also a variation that I developed to be more flexible in lightness of gray or even white.

I believe Todd is referring to his own recent efforts and those of others applying FnEasy top coats, not any other mixes. But reading some of the responses leads me to believe some may have misinterpreted Todd's statement. Todd, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Given the same lightness of gray an FnEasy screen can compete with a complex semi-opaque metallic mix screen but is much much easier to prepare and apply.

Does anyone disagree with this statement? I'm sure it can compete, and it's obviously easier to prepare. No hype here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

To achieve performance levels beyond either the FnEasy or complex semi-opaque metallic mixes it is necessary to employ a metallic or pearl clear coat. The introduction of a metallic/pearl clear coat does increase gain and contrast while not significantly reducing viewing cone.

Ok, minor disagreement here. I'm not sure that a top coat is necessary, but it is one of the methods that will work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

FnEasy is not only easily implemented but a very effective DIY Painted Screen solution. Don't be dazzled by exotic ingredients or assume that complexity will translate into a perceptible improvement in performance.

A bit strong, but it's an opinion (as are nearly ALL posts ). And perfectly good advice, too.

Todd hasn't bashed any particular application here that I can see, nor has he hyped his own beyond a reasonably justified pride. I think this would be a good example for all to follow.

Garry
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post #297 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 12:25 PM
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I do think the poly coat is a LITTLE more difficult... ( I just did one coat of 1x pearl), since it was a little harder to do...

just need to load the roller heavier...

I did end up with slight texturization in a couple of spots, I'm not sure if that could have been corrected with better technique or not...

I agree that I am the type of person this works well for.

1. First time projector buyer...

2. Limited skills

3. Limited Budget

4. Want to follow step-by-step instructions based upon others' research...


A shootout would be nice, but everyone has different projectors/room situations...

Sounds like a LOT of work... though it'd be interesting to see the results...
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post #298 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post


My original statement, not the one quoted above, was that if the shade of gray is similar then the basic (no pearl) FnEasy does compete quite well with the more complex semi-opaque metallic paint mix solutions.

That's sounds just fine.


Quote:


Me thinks thou doth protest too much!

Not as far as I'm concerned with my seeing the comment below in print. It's just wrong to put such an opinion out that talks up one thing while essentially 'dissing' another proven concept. Whether it represents an opinion or belief i being so can result in someone who actually needs the advantages an advanced Mix can and DOES offer to forgo considering such as being worth the extra effort/expense.

Quote:


FnEasy is not only easily implemented but a very effective DIY Painted Screen solution. Don't be dazzled by exotic ingredients or assume that complexity will translate into a perceptible improvement in performance.

Now Tiddler, you cannot say that the last sentence does not fall out of the; "IMO" realm and into a; " Of this I am certain" context.

That statement can only be taken as a discrediting commentary. No way around it. Not that it can be construed as being something intentionally derogatory, just obvious in it's outright discounting of a particular concept as being advantageous enough to consider.

Bud,

Not so sure it was put to you quite like the below comment seems to represent....,
Quote:


When I asked for assistance as others were trying to do similar screens to mine (not a paint again but a method) I was told by yourself and the other metallic proponents you could offer up useful information but you wouldn't because it would be much better to direct them to a one size fits all metallic screen paint.

I seldom, if ever have outright refused to consider a request, and if I was leaning toward 'ignoring' any such request, I usually make the reasons clear. I've may have either been too busy, forgetful, or too grossly inconvenienced to comply, much to my dismay and regret, but virtually never have I been so uppity as to say "Fergitabowdit".

Way back when, it was easier to suggest an advanced mix / over a "Simple" application and be assured that the end results would knock 'em for a loop. Things are changing, but overall, Advanced applications still hold sway as being the best choice if one aspires to having the best. I I ever came across as not caring for your requests, I apoligize.

Yep, I was as strong an advocate for my own DIY applications as there ever has been, and for what was and remains all the right reasons. The belief in one's accomplishments, buoyed up by much repetition and a immense base of satisfied comments. Such things tend to generate strong beliefs as well as opinions, and I see your receiving all the plaudits and attention you have been as being the reason your being adamant in your expressions as well.

But as far as bluntly and adamantly steering others ONLY to what I think is best? ..... I do know I do not "Go There" in that manner anymore. Mostly because the realm of DIY has advanced so greatly that there is no longer the wide disparity in quality there used to be, as well as the realization that DIY is very much a "To each his own" decision. And of course, to avoid getting whammed by the dreaded "P" word. So if I seem a little sensitive to others making similar statements, it's not a 'jealously' or "tit for tiddler" kinda thing. just wanting everyone else to observe the proprieties that I've made such an effort to do so myself.

PS,

Just came back to post this and saw Garry's comments. I'd say his should probably be the last word because his words are both unbiased and pretty much "Right On".



Dammit.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #299 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 02:39 PM
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Remember that the original RS_MaxxxMudd only had the Gray that was introduced via a small amount of Behr SM. Later versions used Delta SM. Your white/pearl is really more like MMud 1:1:1

But I would never call it "Complex' by any means. Just UPW/WOP/and Deep Base

pretty simple stuff really.

I wish that old Dog could get a test.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #300 of 380 Old 05-01-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Yep. What we need is a well thought out DIY Screen Shootout. Question is, are the proponents of various applications up to the task, or are they willing to provide the support such an endeavor requires. If anyone advocating a DIY solution cannot or will not make an effort to provide such "Real Life" verification of a concept through exacting comparisons, they should recede into the background if they cannot justify their words with actions.

Or......., if no Shoot Out is forthcoming, we should settle into a habit of providing alternative solutions that while they may differ in quality and/or ease of construction, are all equally presented for others to make their own decisions based on info that is not overblown, hyped, or presented at the expense of the efforts of others.

Not another fantasy shootout? Come on, this has been in your court forever it seems. And not once have you made any effort to put up any other mix against your so called giant "plasma" like 140" screens in Bob's Wings and Things. Don't make any more promises you don't intend to keep. And don't you dare write a 1000 word diatribe cause I get lost in the translation.

How's that for injecting new life and getting things stirred up, again, on this forum!!

Mods, please forgive me for I have sinned. It has been 3 hours since I last viewed my giant plasma like screen.....

Meow.
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