i tried the behr top coat and my picture quality suffered - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 19 Old 01-03-2007, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
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i am going to repaint the wall back to glidden hi-hide white again.

i miss my bright clear picture i had.

i fixed something that wasn't broken
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post #2 of 19 Old 01-03-2007, 02:39 PM
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Was the Behr top coat a flat paint.?? and yes been there done that....LOL
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post #3 of 19 Old 01-03-2007, 03:35 PM
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I just posted in the laminate thread that I had the same problem. The image looks a little more dull / less sharp and it seems to have lost some 'pop'. Some others have used the same poly on the same color laminate as me and they don't seem to be having any issues, so maybe I put it on too thick, or applied too many coats (I think I did three).
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post #4 of 19 Old 01-03-2007, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Smith View Post

I just posted in the laminate thread that I had the same problem. The image looks a little more dull / less sharp and it seems to have lost some 'pop'. Some others have used the same poly on the same color laminate as me and they don't seem to be having any issues, so maybe I put it on too thick, or applied too many coats (I think I did three).

Nick three was probably what did you in. Luckily you can remove the poly coating from the laminate with ease, so all is not lost. Let it thoroughly dry and it should flake off if you start working at it. Clean the laminate after it's all off and then put on one coat, let it dry and check the image out. If needed put on a second thin coat, but I wouldn't do anymore than that.

Basically what you are doing is knocking the specularity down and making the surface more diffusive than reflective. Since the material performs very well in it's original state, you don't want to alter that, just diffuse the light to get rid of any potential hot spotting.

MM did warn about going too heavy with poly's and that a little can be very good, a lot starts to blur and actually reduce the image quality.

This is all good feedback though and helps to tweak things out.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #5 of 19 Old 01-03-2007, 08:58 PM
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I was going to say something similiar. When you add multiple clear coats, you are building a very bad prismatic layer that will just bounce the light around a little, reducing detail back to the eyes.
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post #6 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 04:07 AM
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I think I'll try to flake it off (maybe I'll roll it up tight for a day or two...that seems to work) and just try it out 'naked' for a week and see if I feel it needs the coating. If the hot spotting drives me crazy I'll try some light coats of the poly. I think I need a different roller though since mine didn't seem to give good coverage without multiple passes...I think that's partially what caused me to go too thick.
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post #7 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Did you not use a 3/16" nap white synthetic roller or a 6" white hard foam trim roller?


I used a (I believe) 1/4" nap white synthetic 'very smooth' roller. I don't remember seeing a 3/16" there, or else I would have grabbed it. I was thinking about a foam roller, but I thought I read on the poly can not to use a foam brush/roller. I'll have to check my roller specifics when I go home for lunch (if I didn't throw away the wrapper).
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post #8 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 08:52 AM - Thread Starter
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hi. i used a older brand of home depot paint,initially when i bought the house (conco) , that was sold at home depot when they first opened years ago.

they no longer sell conco, they have glidden paints as a house brand.

when i built the home theatre room addition, i used 5/8 sheetrock with kilz ii primer from home depot, then had the painters spray the glidden hi-hide white on top of the kilz.

this room is 29 feet long by apprx. 20 feet wide and has 15 to 20 recessed lights in the ceiling.
every wall/part/piece of sheetrock in this room is painted hi-hide semi-gloss latex glidden paint white (i can get the code off the bucket later when i get home)

i just bought those window cover blinds from wal-mart (kind you mount inside window frame and roll down to keep out daylight) 7.00 each and very easy to install , i also had my wood shutters installed yesterday which are outside mount 4" louver shutters over the blackout blind, to give me ultimate light control for the room.

anyways...........back to the paint.

after reading all kinds of diy screen threads and buying the wilsonart fashion grey 5 x 12 sheet (really lost pop of picture) i read some more about screen top coat suggestions.

so i took the part number behr eurthane topcoat for faux? or what ever it was. went to home depot bought quart can/and rolled on one coat using the home depot small 6" foam type roller exclusive to this type of roller knap holder which went on without any problems and has no roller lines or flaws.
a few hours later when it was dry, i tried the projector using the movie "cars "
and played the chapter where the lightning car and porshe car drive out to wheel well and overlook the canyon.

i found all of the sharpness and detail of the cars traveling on the distant fwy. was gone

the earthtone canyon and distant mountain views wow factor is now gone
i no longer can see the fine deatils of the mountains in the background which are actually tailfins of different oldtime american cars which appear to be sticking out of the grounds and disguised as mountains ( car related movie lol).

i then used the movie " hard target" motorcycle chase scene and found the picture lacks pop.

next i tried "the matrix " chapter where they save morpheous and shoot up lobby.
picture was darker and has no pop.

so i called the painter and asked him if he can comeback and respray the screen wall hi-hide white again.

if i knew how to post photos online, i would.

if i had to guess, i would say the wilsonart designer white is better than the fashion grey.in terms of pop
but i feel all these matte finshes are for is making the screen produce better picture in partially lit rooms where some light is on in one way or another.
i am sure all rooms are different and (ymmv) so to speak, but when all the lights are off and the movie is playing. the hi-hide white works best for me.

i also , just ordered the high gain screen fabric from tht place on here, for 39.00 for a huge scrap.
and will make a two sided screen from that lowes aluminum frame thread on here and have the grey wilsonart on one side, and the fabric on the other. so i can try them, and take the screen outside for summer time with the infocus projector (whole other topic)

a picture is worth a 100 words and i will take before and after pix is someone wants to help me post them.

i own both the infocus in24 and the panasonic ax100u and the infocus is no match

i have the image size about 6 feet tall and 12 feet wide and am very happy with my step into the projector arena and look forward to getting this room completely finished.
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post #9 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 09:10 AM
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semi-gloss, that is very interesting. Most recommend staying away from even a satin finish.

Are you using the Panasonic ax100u? That's a pretty bright projector and it's interesting that with a sheen like a semi-gloss has that you don't hot spot.

Where are you located at? I might be interested in taking the FG off your hands if you still have it, depends on how much shipping will be...

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #10 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiddler View Post

Did you not use a 3/16" nap white synthetic roller or a 6" white hard foam trim roller?



http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...d_id=100057647


Here's the roller I used, but I bought the 1/4" nap. Unfortunately I threw away the wrapper, but I think it said 'very smooth' on it.

I pulled the screen from the frame and I'm going to try to flake off the poly, but it doesn't look like it'll be easy.
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post #11 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Smith View Post

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...d_id=100057647


Here's the roller I used, but I bought the 1/4" nap. Unfortunately I threw away the wrapper, but I think it said 'very smooth' on it.

I pulled the screen from the frame and I'm going to try to flake off the poly, but it doesn't look like it'll be easy.

Nick we definitely know that rolling it up for a day or so will cause the poly to crack and from how it sounded once it did it came off relatively easy. It's good to note though that your initial observations are that it seems to be adhered pretty good right now. Not too many people roll up their fixed frame screens, at least it's not a common practice I have heard of

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #12 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wbassett View Post

Nick we definitely know that rolling it up for a day or so will cause the poly to crack and from how it sounded once it did it came off relatively easy. It's good to note though that your initial observations are that it seems to be adhered pretty good right now. Not too many people roll up their fixed frame screens, at least it's not a common practice I have heard of


Yeah, I figured I'd have to do roll it, so I went ahead and did it during my lunch break. It seems like it's on there pretty good, though, so I'm hoping for the best.

Thanks.
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post #13 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukii View Post

i have the image size about 6 feet tall and 12 feet wide and am very happy with my step into the projector arena and look forward to getting this room completely finished.

Sounds like a rather large screen, which probably needs much higher gain. Can you give us an exact size and AR?

Garry
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post #14 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zukii View Post

i have the image size about 6 feet tall and 12 feet wide and am very happy with my step into the projector arena and look forward to getting this room completely finished.

Also how far back is the projector and which one are you using? I am assuming the AX100U.

I can't get those dimensions to work on the screen calculator. With no zoom, and at 29' back (which doesn't sound like your projector would be that far back because it would be inside the wall then) I come up with 70"x124" and 13fL. At 28' with a slight zoom I can get the 6' height but still not the 12' width, so I'm curious about your setup... mainly because this is the projector I am looking at myself.

If that is close to your setup it looks like you're around 72"x128" for a 147" diagonal screen size and hitting it with around 12fL on the screen. That is probably why the gray isn't what you expected because at that size and amount of fL it is calling for either more brightness or a higher gain screen-- hence the semi-gloss working for you and not against you in your situation.

For the size screen you want there are no substrates that big so you are back to paint. You seem happy with what you already have so that's all that matters. If you ever decide to try something take a look at Rosco's Off Broadway White White vinyl based paint. It is a very nice white in a matte finish, and the vinyl blend is a little different than standard latex paint... but even at that it probably won't have the gain you need for a screen that size. It looks like you need at least a 1.2 gain screen and I can tell you FG most certainly isn't that high. Designer White is and there are Panny AX100U users that have it and love it, but unfortunately it doesn't come in the size you need, so again it all goes back to painting and since you are happy with the hi-hide (haven't heard of this myself) it sounds like you have your match

Can we interest you in some nice screen border material

"Make everything as simple as possible, but no simpler." - Albert Einstein
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post #15 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 01:36 PM
 
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I think this thread has two very important points with regards to diy screens.

With regards to zukii, "If it ain't broke don't fix it"! A little more research would have shown that yes, DW has more 'pop' than FG. FG is not a substitute for DW, nor is DW a substitute for FG. They both have their niches, depending upon the users environment. FG is for ambient light - DW is for light controlled rooms. Did you adjust/calibrate your projector for all of these different substrates/screens you've tried? I know my original shots of Polywall vs. FG favored the polywall because my projector was calibrated for it. It was nice that you at least tried the poly topcoat on your painted wall. Why you did it, is my only question to you.

With regards to Nick, "Preparation is everything". I can't express in words my feelings when I topcoated my FG and it ended up screwed up. But I got it right the second time. Of course the first time I was 'way too busy' to read tiddlers thread on rolling techniques. Needless to say, I did before attempting the second time. As to the roller, I used a 1/4" roller the second time and it worked fine. Roll it up one way for awhile and then roll it up the other way for a bit. That should get the poly off.

Took some more screenshots today of the FG. I honestly don't know how I could get my DirecTV signal any 'sharper'. I'll post them in the laminate thread tomorrow. I may have to add a few more Cars shots...

mech
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post #16 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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i tried the poly coat after reading the indepth long thread /sticky thing which covered just about everything about diy screens.

i measured the actual imgae size and not those top and bottom dark bars .

when i used the wilsonart fashion grey sheet, i adjusted the image to fit it. and then readjusted the focus and everything.

it is watchable. but it doesn't work as good as before i fixed it.

i just bought a huge requested piece of this

http://www.b-adeals.com/ProductScreenSale.HTM

and will know once i get it. if it is any better or another step backwards

after this i am going to stop tinkering, as this set up is all i want and then some.

ax100u is one of my projectors. the infocus from woot is the other
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post #17 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 03:05 PM
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If you were happy with the hi-hide why are you now buying this screen material? You're getting to the cost factor now of a mid level commercial screen with all the stuff you bought so far...

You still haven't said how far back the projector is mounted and which projector you are using for that huge image. It is sounding like maybe you have used different projectors for the various methods you mentioned and if so that makes it very difficult to pin point what's going on. I tend to say if you were happy with the hi-hide paint that's what you probably should go back to. The ebay material has gotten mixed reviews as well, so it may or may not be up to your expectations either.

As far as how you measured the screen, I am not sure I follow you. Did you measure just the video image? If so understand that the content isn't always the same size and if you build a screen based on that and not the actual projector throw you will run into situations where you will have to zoom or unzoom your image to fit the screen. Anytime you change the zoom setting the fL are going to also change at the screen as well... just a few things to keep in mind.

Bill

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post #18 of 19 Old 01-04-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mech View Post

With regards to Nick, "Preparation is everything". I can't express in words my feelings when I topcoated my FG and it ended up screwed up. But I got it right the second time. Of course the first time I was 'way too busy' to read tiddlers thread on rolling techniques. Needless to say, I did before attempting the second time. As to the roller, I used a 1/4" roller the second time and it worked fine. Roll it up one way for awhile and then roll it up the other way for a bit. That should get the poly off.


I read and followed Tiddler's painting method as you did. A big problem I had was that when I tried to roll the poly on, the roller would slide for a foot or two rather than spin. I'm guessing this is what caused some of the irregularities in my picture that are driving me nuts. I tried sanding it some more and that just made it worse. I started picking at it with my finger nail, and after about ten minutes of work I had chipped away about a quarter sized area. Apparently my surface prep was actually quite good I re-rolled the sheet and I'll leave it like that for a few days, but I'm guessing it won't help the poly pop off any better judging by the troubles I had picking at it today. I think I'm going to call Lowes and see if I can return a special order (don't worry, I'm not going to try and return the one I have). If they will return a special order I'll go ahead and buy another sheet of fg and also a sheet of dw so I can decide between the two. If I stick with the fg, I definitely won't be coating it...I guess engineers were never meant to be painters

Thanks for the help, though. I appreciate the ideas/suggestions.
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post #19 of 19 Old 01-05-2007, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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i think the screen gain is a important factor in overall picture quality/brightness

i am new to this, so i thought trying somethings including that fabric i bought, as trials with learning experience results. i also own a smaller infocus screen i bought off woot for 20.00 or something long time ago.

nothing matches the fun and excitement of projector.

except the movie theatre itself
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