Help with frame for Wilsonart DW screen - AVS Forum

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DIY Screen Section

hoops10's Avatar hoops10
08:36 PM Liked: 10
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01-04-2007 | Posts: 881
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Just recently picked up my Wilsonart DW screen and it is a 5' x 8' piece (although it actually measures 61" x 96".) I am thinking about making a frame for it out of wood. I want to have a 106" diagonal 16:9 screen so my dimensions are 52" x 92" (please correct me if I am wrong on this one.) Would using 1x3's me the best way to make a frame? I am going to put some type of black border around the screen too. How should my frame look? How big should it be? What dimensions should I cut the Wilsonart to (assuming that I am putting a black border around it)? When attaching the Wilsonart to the wood frame, should I pre-drill the holes thru the Wilsonart? Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
gmangels's Avatar gmangels
07:55 AM Liked: 10
post #2 of 32
01-05-2007 | Posts: 7
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Hoops,

I just did this last week. Here is what I did (hopefully this doesn't confuse you, because after writing it, I myself am confused -- don't accept my measurements blindly!):

92" x 52" should get you 106". I built a frame out of 1x4 wood and squared it. The dimensions of the frame ended up being 98 1/8" x 58 3/8" (this is off the top of my head.)

I planned on hooking a velveteen wrapped 1x3 border onto the top of this that was flush to the edge of the wood frame and I wanted the viewable interior of the boarder to be 92" x 52".

I attached all corners with liquid nails plus a metal square bracket with lots of screw holes. I put these on the back of the frame and put a few screws in them.

I then placed 2 vertical 1x3 cross sections in it so that I had the frame divided into thirds, then did the same with 2 horizontal cross sections (actually 6 pieces of wood for these to go inbetween the vertical). I secured these in the same way as the 4 outside pieces.

Once my frame was done drying, I took out the laminate and cut off ~5 inches off of the 61" side. I did this so that I could attach it to the frame with 1 1/2" or so around the edges of the frame showing when the laminate was laid on it. I then took some spare 1" wood i had laying around and placed this into the gaps in the frame to prevent the laminate from sagging. This may not have been needed, but I just wanted to be sure.

The plan is to then place the laminate on the front of the frame (opposite side of the brackets holding it together). I then predrilled holes in the laminate every 6 inches or so around the frame. I had some self-locking nails that I nailed into these holes. Once the laminate was screwed down, it was time to work on the border.

I bought some 1x3 border from Lowes that started at 1" on the thick side and curved down to about 1/2" on the inside of the border. I cut these to be the exact length and height of the other frame only with mitred corners. I then wrapped the velvet around one side of the border and stapled it to the border. I placed the boarder on the frame, nailed it down, then wrapped the velvet around the border/frame and stapled it to the back of the frame.

It took a little recutting of the mitred corners to make the angles larger than 45 degrees so that the edges would fit with the velveteen in between them. Getting the corners semi-flat on the edges was also a bit of a pain. I cut away quite a bit of excess velvet before stapling down the edges.


Let me know if you want any of this clarified and I'll try my best. I'm not the most handy with tools and such, but luckily my father-in-law is. Overall I'm in love with my screen. I even read it a story and tuck it in every night before I go to bed.
wbassett's Avatar wbassett
08:12 AM Liked: 10
post #3 of 32
01-05-2007 | Posts: 1,500
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Also if you don't have one of these, it is worth the $9 plus tax

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...S-1&lpage=none
Mike4AU's Avatar Mike4AU
09:24 AM Liked: 10
post #4 of 32
01-05-2007 | Posts: 173
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Info...the screen size calculator that I got from rgeyer shows 52 X 92 7/16 for the 106 screen.
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
09:49 AM Liked: 10
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01-05-2007 | Posts: 881
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gmangels: Wow, thanks for that great response. Some questions though. So you cut the laminate to exactly 52" x 92" and not any bigger than that? Then you layed it down on top of the frame, thus giving you about 1 1/2" on each side for your border to attach to. Am I right so far? I was actually thinking of putting decorative molding on as the border. So if I use, let's say 3" molding, I could put the molding onto the frame, half on and half off (or cut the laminate a little bigger and place the molding all on the frame). Sound do-able?

Also, as far as attaching the laminate to the frame, you said you pre-drilled holes every 6". You then used a nailer to attach it? Could regular wood screws be used? Also, do you have to pre-drill holes or can you screw right thru the laminate? What size bit did you use to pre-drill? Thanks.
gmangels's Avatar gmangels
10:45 AM Liked: 10
post #6 of 32
01-05-2007 | Posts: 7
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Mike:
I figured that as well. I think I ended up doing 92" and 51 3/4" or something to be exactly 16:9. So my screen is technically like 105.5 inches or so. Don't tell anybody though. I figured this by taking 92 and dividing by 16 to get 5.75, then multiplied that by 9 to get 51.75. Could have done it your way also, for some reason I just liked the rounder numbers.

Hoops:
No problem! I left the laminate at 96" on the width and cut the height to around 56". That way I could nail it into my 1x4 frame and still have plenty of room (2 or so inches) inside of the border to put my nails. The 1 1/2" clearance I was talking about refers to the amount of wood showing on my 1x4 frame after the laminate was laid on top. It was about that much all the way around. I just kind of centered the smaller 96x56 laminate on my 98x58 frame.

Your idea with the molding sounds fine. That's basically what my border was, just simple molding. After placing it flush on the outside, just so my lines on my frame and border would line up when I folded the velvet around, I had my 92x51.75 interior.

You could probably use wood screws right through the laminate. I predrilled to avoid any chipping. This probably wouldn't even be an issue since you are putting it into the frame and are still around 2" away from your viewable area. The drill bit I used was the smallest my father-in-law had lying around. I was using a fairly small nail so I picked the small bit to match it. I'm not sure on the exact size. I wasn't actually using a nail gun or anything, just a hammer.

I might suggest taking that extra 5" of laminate you cut off the height and try screwing it straight into some extra frame pieces to see if it will work ok.

-g
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
05:47 PM Liked: 10
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01-05-2007 | Posts: 881
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gmangels: Is there any benefit to mitering the edges of the frame or can I just put the vertical and horizontal pieces edge to edge?
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
01:27 PM Liked: 10
post #8 of 32
01-06-2007 | Posts: 881
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Also, would attaching the laminate to the wood frame with laminate glue be strong enough to hold the screen on or should I use wood screws?
Rahl's Avatar Rahl
03:11 PM Liked: 10
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01-06-2007 | Posts: 572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 View Post

gmangels: Is there any benefit to mitering the edges of the frame or can I just put the vertical and horizontal pieces edge to edge?

Mitering is not neccessary.

Here is my screen using butt-joints.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9158028
Tom Sipher's Avatar Tom Sipher
04:41 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 32
01-06-2007 | Posts: 32
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My laminate isn't here yet, so I'm busy sketching out frame designs as well. I am curious about the necessity for a substrate to which the laminate is mounted/glued versus just pinning it down around the perimeter of the frame. I'm sure my question will be answered once I feel the stiffness and see the thickness of the full sheet of laminate, but in the meantime, looking at my sketch below, following the process described earlier by gmangels, is a half inch MDF substrate necessary or helpful? If yes, anyone know where to buy 5x10 sheets instead of 4x8?

Also curious, has anyone made a built-up molding for the black border wrap in order to make room for the metal corner brackets?
LL
esldude's Avatar esldude
11:02 PM Liked: 10
post #11 of 32
01-06-2007 | Posts: 14
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Anyone tried velcro to attach laminate to frame? Seems like it would work fine. I am about to do one. And will either use velcro or mirror kit mounting.
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
09:32 AM Liked: 10
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01-07-2007 | Posts: 881
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What about laminate glue? Will it be strong enough to hold the laminate onto the wood frame?

Raul: What kind of clips are those? Are they what you used to attach the laminate to the frame?
Sdallnct's Avatar Sdallnct
11:08 AM Liked: 10
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01-07-2007 | Posts: 1,089
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Has anyone tried putting a 1X2, 1X3 or 1X4 boarder ON TOP of the laminate so that you had sort of a shadow box effect? I was wondering if this might help with keeping light from angles hitting the screen.
FremontRich's Avatar FremontRich
11:32 AM Liked: 11
post #14 of 32
01-07-2007 | Posts: 1,806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esldude View Post

Anyone tried velcro to attach laminate to frame? Seems like it would work fine. I am about to do one. And will either use velcro or mirror kit mounting.

I have a frame made of 1" square aluminum tubing and I used 6" strips of 1" wide velcro to attach my 92" diagonal Designer White laminate to the frame. It works great and the nice thing is I can change screens (i.e., use Fashion Grey in the future) if I want to.
esldude's Avatar esldude
02:53 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 32
01-07-2007 | Posts: 14
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That sounds great. One of the reasons I wanted velcro was to change out and experiment. Seemed like it would work fine. Glad to have it confirmed.

The other reason was possible portability. I figure you can make a frame with hinges. Fold it in half for easy transport. Roll up the laminate. Take it where you are going, unroll the laminate and fold out frame. Attach laminate with velcro and you are ready to go.
Rahl's Avatar Rahl
03:16 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 32
01-07-2007 | Posts: 572
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For really thin laminate, less than 1/4in, you will need to glue it to a thicker board, 1/4in or greater. Unless of course if you want to roll it up, then just use industrial strength velcro that can be found at Home Depot or Lowes.

As for a frame, you can build the frame around the board/screen as I have, or you can attach the frame directly to the board/screen with any type of attachment device (screws, velcro, etc) as long as the board/screen has enough surface area for the frame to attach to.

If you build the frame around the screen, you will need to mount the board/screen to the wall with a french cleat, mirror clips (like mine), velco, finishing nails, etc.

After you get the board/screen on the wall, take the pieces of 1x2, 1x3, 1x4, etc and measure them 4inch (for 1x2), 3inch (for 1x3), 8 inches (for 1x4) longer than the board/screens sides (top and bottom included) and then mount them around the screen.
gmangels's Avatar gmangels
07:40 AM Liked: 10
post #17 of 32
01-08-2007 | Posts: 7
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The only reason I mitred the corners was because of WAF. She wanted it to look as nice as possible.

A substrate backer is not necessary, but would not hurt I suppose. I don't notice any bowing or sagging of the laminate after hanging. I think this is because I made sure I had the laminate stretched as tight as possible when nailing it down. I also believe that sagging was reduced by putting spare 1 inch pieces of wood down on the floor in all of the gaps in my frame before laying the laminate on top to begin nailing.

I need to take some pictures and post what it looks like now so you all can see the finished product. I've gotten some really positive feedback from friends and family about the whole project. They can't believe how much better the screen looks than the projection on my matte white wall. They also don't believe me when I tell them this is a countertop material.

It's so hard to get people to go home now!

-g
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
10:58 AM Liked: 10
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01-08-2007 | Posts: 881
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gmangels: I don't understand what you said about the "1 inch pieces of wood to fill in the gaps in your frame." Could you clarify that for me? Thanks.
gmangels's Avatar gmangels
11:23 AM Liked: 10
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01-08-2007 | Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 View Post

gmangels: I don't understand what you said about the "1 inch pieces of wood to fill in the gaps in your frame." Could you clarify that for me? Thanks.

Sure. I had the 1x4 frame laying flat on the ground. Since I had 2 vertical and 2 horizontal braces, there were 9 open spaces in between the braces and frame. I took some old 1" thick boards and cut them into smaller strips. Then I laid a couple of strips down in each of the 9 open spaces. This way when I laid down the laminate, it was almost like laying it on a solid board. The laminate had no chance to sag. Then I only had to focus on getting the laminate as flat and tight as possible while nailing it down.

This may have been overkill, but I had the spare wood and didn't want to chance it not laying flat on the frame. Since the laminate comes rolled up, it will probably not try to sag if you don't let it flatten first. I had mine laying face down with weight on the back overnight and it was really flat and ready to go when I went to mount it. It was so flat, I decided that it wasn't worth it to risk possible sagging.

Hope that helps.

-g
hoops10's Avatar hoops10
10:33 AM Liked: 10
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ok, thanks I get it now. Also, when you say that you made it as tight as possible, did you somehow stretch it at all? Or did you just lean on it to make it completely flat? If not, what do you mean by that? Thanks.
gmangels's Avatar gmangels
05:19 PM Liked: 10
post #21 of 32
01-09-2007 | Posts: 7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoops10 View Post

ok, thanks I get it now. Also, when you say that you made it as tight as possible, did you somehow stretch it at all? Or did you just lean on it to make it completely flat? If not, what do you mean by that? Thanks.

Yeah I kind of pulled on it to keep it flat after the first corner was down. My father-in-law went to town with the hammer while I was doing this. Could easily be a one person job though. You just want to keep it flat as you nail it, so you don't have any bulges.

-g
SixkillerNYC's Avatar SixkillerNYC
09:36 AM Liked: 10
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01-10-2007 | Posts: 562
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I build a 116" designed white screen. The frame was made of 1x3 pine boards that I got at ome depot and then mitered myself with a hand saw. I wrapped each piece in velvet with a staple gun and then used metal brackets to attatch the four pieces together. I laid the DW sheet down on the back of the frame, cut off the excess by scoring with a utility knife, and then used small wood screws to attach it.

It worked beautifully and took only a couple of hours.
Sdallnct's Avatar Sdallnct
04:25 PM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SixkillerNYC View Post

I build a 116" designed white screen. The frame was made of 1x3 pine boards that I got at ome depot and then mitered myself with a hand saw. I wrapped each piece in velvet with a staple gun and then used metal brackets to attatch the four pieces together. I laid the DW sheet down on the back of the frame, cut off the excess by scoring with a utility knife, and then used small wood screws to attach it.

It worked beautifully and took only a couple of hours.

Ok so you did exactly what I was asking about

The image area of your screen is recesed in from the black boarder/frame. If you used 1X3's that means it is receased about .75" is that right? How does it look? That is exactly what I'm thinking of doing. Don't suppose you could post a pic?
mech's Avatar mech
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Here's a pic of the back of my frame:



1X4 poplar. It was built 2 inches larger on all sides so that I could screw the Velveteen covered 1X3 maple frame to it from the backside. The inner frame and 1X2s were my original plan for my rope lighting. Rope light was 18' so I made a 3X6 inner frame to mount my 1X2s to for it. Ended up bying another rope light and stapling it abou an inch or so from the edges. Everything but the french cleat is made from poplar and maple. Cleat was a 2X4 I had laying around. This an expensive way of doing it though. But that poplar and maple won't warp!

mech
Tom Sipher's Avatar Tom Sipher
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post #25 of 32
01-11-2007 | Posts: 32
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Question for Mech . . .

I'm building a similar frame, and because of the thickness of the 1x3 poplar and the 0.25 MDF backer (gave up on 0.50 as too much), I can't seem to find a corner molding that will cover in the direction perpendicular to the wall, so I'm considering making a built up molding of some typical tapered section laying against the laminate (like a door frame molding) and then some thin S4S to get the coverage perpendicular to the screen.

Any advice on a good method for making the joint for the built up molding? I don't have much in the way of tools (no table saw, for example) and I'm considering I should not use screws or nails because I'll have to saw through later to make the right length and corner miter. So it looks like glue, or glue plus biscuits, but it seems a lot of work to try to put a biscuit every 10 or 12 inches down the length.

Appreciate your suggestions and past experience.


SixkillerNYC's Avatar SixkillerNYC
09:33 AM Liked: 10
post #26 of 32
01-11-2007 | Posts: 562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sdallnct View Post

Ok so you did exactly what I was asking about

The image area of your screen is recesed in from the black boarder/frame. If you used 1X3's that means it is receased about .75" is that right? How does it look? That is exactly what I'm thinking of doing. Don't suppose you could post a pic?

I factored that in to my measurements. I have 116" inside the frame.

Here's a pic:



mech's Avatar mech
10:28 AM Liked: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sipher View Post

Question for Mech . . .

I'm building a similar frame, and because of the thickness of the 1x3 poplar and the 0.25 MDF backer (gave up on 0.50 as too much), I can't seem to find a corner molding that will cover in the direction perpendicular to the wall, so I'm considering making a built up molding of some typical tapered section laying against the laminate (like a door frame molding) and then some thin S4S to get the coverage perpendicular to the screen.

Any advice on a good method for making the joint for the built up molding? I don't have much in the way of tools (no table saw, for example) and I'm considering I should not use screws or nails because I'll have to saw through later to make the right length and corner miter. So it looks like glue, or glue plus biscuits, but it seems a lot of work to try to put a biscuit every 10 or 12 inches down the length.

Appreciate your suggestions and past experience.


I would get rid of the backer board for starters. Did you get vertical grade laminate or horizontal? If you have a choice I'd get the horizontal, it's a couple bucks more but a tad bit more rigid. I only say this because I've seen where someone said that their vertical grade was not very rigid and the image from the pj went thru the laminate.

As for the molding behind, I'd skip that as well and put in some rope lights! I think they add a really nice touch to a screen. But, if you don't want to do that you're kind of in a bind as it doesn't sound like you have any tools for my suggestions. Personally I'd buy some 1X2 or 1X3 stock and rip/router my own molding.

As to the your design, it'll work with screws. I'm a tad bit confused on what you would put together and then cut. Everything should be cut before you put it together anyway. Use short enough screws so that they don't protrude on the finished side. Hope this helps, if not report back.


mech
Tom Sipher's Avatar Tom Sipher
12:38 PM Liked: 10
post #28 of 32
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Dear mech,

Well, I don't have the material yet, but I did review the three weights with the sales lady and I requested the heavy one, so we will see when I pick it up.

As I wrote earlier, the backer board is more of an insurance policy for me against small projectiles, like Wii-motes, when we have a doubles tennis tournament going on and someone loses their wrist strap. You have to see it to believe it, so ignore unless you have a Wii.

I am considering rope lights (made a post over there but no guidance yet), that is what the little numbered sunshines are in my image, trying to decide how close to the edge they should go and if they should be behind the screen or inside it (position 1 vs position 2)

What you may have viewed as molding behind is really just a 1x3 S4S frame, very similar to the one in your photo.

My remaining question is about the velvet-wrapped molding, in that it needs to be a corner molding that covers the thickness of the screen assembly (about 1.25 inches), in addition to the viewable perimeter. If anyone has advice for how to connect two ten foot lengths of molding to make a single larger corner molding, I'd like to hear it. If no answers, I'll just build something this weekend and see how it works and report back.
mech's Avatar mech
12:50 PM Liked: 10
post #29 of 32
01-11-2007 | Posts: 789
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sipher View Post

Dear mech,

Well, I don't have the material yet, but I did review the three weights with the sales lady and I requested the heavy one, so we will see when I pick it up.

As I wrote earlier, the backer board is more of an insurance policy for me against small projectiles, like Wii-motes, when we have a doubles tennis tournament going on and someone loses their wrist strap. You have to see it to believe it, so ignore unless you have a Wii.

That's funny! Got any vids of this on youtube?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Sipher View Post

I am considering rope lights (made a post over there but no guidance yet), that is what the little numbered sunshines are in my image, trying to decide how close to the edge they should go and if they should be behind the screen or inside it (position 1 vs position 2)

What you may have viewed as molding behind is really just a 1x3 S4S frame, very similar to the one in your photo.

My remaining question is about the velvet-wrapped molding, in that it needs to be a corner molding that covers the thickness of the screen assembly (about 1.25 inches), in addition to the viewable perimeter. If anyone has advice for how to connect two ten foot lengths of molding to make a single larger corner molding, I'd like to hear it. If no answers, I'll just build something this weekend and see how it works and report back.

The rope light needs to be close to the edge. In my photo above it was mounted ~8" in and that didn't work too well.

With the rope light you don't want to wrap the whole thing in velvet, just the border frame. Mount the rope light to the 1X3 back frame edge and you're good to go. What size screen?

mech

PS. I got some pics of the edge of my screen but cannot post them till tomorrow.
Tom Sipher's Avatar Tom Sipher
02:32 PM Liked: 10
post #30 of 32
01-11-2007 | Posts: 32
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Dear mech,

Thanks for the advice on placement and diffusion of the rope light, it's an important design point to know they go between the frame and the wall and that they won't be bright enough if hidden inboard or under the perimeter.

For the Wii tennis, here's the standard one from Nintendo on a big projection screen . . . just imagine four teenagers doing that in a smaller space. My screen diagonal is about 10 feet, and they stand in two rows to play, one at 8 feet and the second (baseline players) at 12 feet. My PJ is Z4 and the Wii runs at 480p, but it's really fun! There's a Wii thread hear at AVS if you want to look further.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0WkL...elated&search=

and in a movie theater (tennis is one-third in, after bowling): http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/clips/wii--now-playing-in-theatres-224022.php

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