Originally Posted by benven
What you think you've gained with ambient light, just gets lost with lights off. Look at how dingy the whites are in the SF mixes with lights on or off. Blacks are just as deep with lights off. Hmmm? So what does that do to contrast? Perceived or measured?
What you say looks dingy is not. What you think is bright White is actually an excess of light. Hot Spotting? I would not go so far as say that, but I can say two things with certainty.
As you and others have pointed out in the past, a digital camera is not as an exacting reference tool as we'd like to have. I've found that as actual PJ Lumen levels have increased, along with resolution and contrast, the performance traits of many screens have changed due to such. It's just still getting things matched up correctly, but that cannot always be done. As in this case, be it the Demo panel (conveniently at hand), the existing screen (more on that*), or the change in PJ specs, all were simply "at hand" not put together to represent "a perfect test".
Also, colours look so much more natural with the white/red oxide screen. IMO, it really is no contest what looks better to my eyes.
That's you right to think and say so, however you seem to overlook that I just had
to know the disparity existed between the very dark Demo I used and the Light Fusion. And the quality of the PJ? It's not like I tried to put on "Airs" or tip the scales completely in my favor. Nor did I fail to point out the small difference I noted between the Cr in the last shots in the dark. But I chose that material once again to show primarily only the CR values that come from seeing something in a monotone range. Bright Colors always are an advantage, and I sought no such help on this last round of images.
Someone with something more to say than a predisposed bent to criticize might observe how little the variance in natural color is for such a dark hue matched against a good white. The PJ was "Out of the Box" which is fine for the HD1 anyway, but certainly it was not calibrated for the dark Silver Fire by any stretch of your imagination. But that would take some effort on your part to take that much effort to be willing to read into whats happening here any more than what you want to.
It seems to me that from my tests, whether white or dark gray, on/off contrast is the same. Can I say that ANSI contrast is better on a white screen? From my initial test...yes. I will need to perform further testing, which will take awhile because I have limited time at night now.
Under any really dark conditions, and with a good PJ with corresponding Cr specs, Contrast should appear to be greater than any Gray. That only makes sense. Cry eye, Benven. Are you telling us something new, or just posturing? But with any ambient light present, be it a poor choice of wall paint, a white ceiling or light colored carpet, a poorly directed Can light, everyone wearing a white suit......, or if it is the PJ's light reflected back at the screen from one of those surfaces, the White will not suffice. Picture quality will suffer. How to avoid that and what means is best is the issue. That's being done not with eye candy primping, but with something just a little bit removed from a Gray Scale Color Pattern.
Just remember that not everyone will be able to "Blacken" or "Black Out" their room. Every room is not a dedicated Theater. You and others know I see a very many different aspects of "Home Theater" and they are not all dedicated by anything approaching a 25% to 75% ratio of dedicated to "Family Room".
So forgive me if my current interest is not on making a great "White" screen. I did that long ago. I'm doing something different, so if that is not where you are, why are you here?
Your test above just proves to me, that a white screen/light gray screen is the way to go. This is something I have been trying to advocate since the advent of CGIII. bud also showed that in his pictures. His lightish gray screen looks really good. I used to be a dark gray guy, but not anymore. I have seen the light.
Yeah. Through Blinders.
I'll be presenting lighter versions of Silver Fire soon. They will easily exceed your simple "White / Gray in Dark & Light Room" performance criteria AND provide greatly improved Ambient Light performance, while offering nothing that can even remotely be construed as a confined viewing cone.
1. Take an off axis, say 45 degrees, picture of the same shot
2. Put your money where your mouth is and send me a sample of SF and I will test it
1. It's coming
2. Who are you to ask of such in such a manner and expect anything.
Given that you refused some time ago to let others ask the same of you, you should not ask such of others. You yourself have as easy access to the SF ingredients as any others do in CAN, so you could have gotten that taken care of long ago. You might have had real fodder for criticism then, or perhaps not, but if you really wanted to know for anything like a "right" reason, you'd have gone there. YOU chose not to for whatever reasons. And you make demands just to create a bad atmosphere where none is needed or wanted. I'm not paying anything toward your enlightenment. I have others who have asked for such and they concern me more. I have enough issues keeping such commitments to those who matter that doing such for your type of request is not going to happen.
As this Comparison progresses, and varying screens are used along with the samples being shunted around, the title will be well justified. Dark Hued SF screens. Light Hued SF screen Painted Wall. Painted Mirrors. Different PJs, from 1k to 5k jobbies and their resulting variables. And at least there will be enough different samples to satisfy 'most' anyone.